Nicole in TX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,951
Jun 26, 2014 2:00:21 GMT
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Post by Nicole in TX on Aug 9, 2015 2:02:12 GMT
Because an extended summer break provides so many things: 1) a chance for teachers to rest and renew so that we are nice people in the classroom and don't get burned out 2) a chance for students to grow and mature and come back for a fresh start each year 3) a time for children to spend time with their parents and bond/vacation 4) many school buildings are not equipped to deal with the summer heat in terms of air conditioning 5) a time for a kid to be a kid and not be governed by a schedule every single moment 1) I'm sure we would all be nicer at work if we got 3 months off. Too bad. 2) you mean a chance for kids to forget what they learned the year before? And they don't grow and mature at school? Huh? 3) year-round schools get many breaks. Kids can bond with parentals and vacation then 4) a/c is easy to install. School deal with cold temps, right? This is an easy fix 5) again, they can still be a kid during breaks. 3months off consecutively is unnecessary Yubon, you can't even be nice on a message board of strangers. I hate to think of what you would do with a room full of 30 children for 9.5 months a year! There is something magical that happens with maturity over the summer. This is amazingly evident between the 9th and 10th grades. There is something about being away for the summer, without being surrounded by your peers in the pool of peer pressure that allows kids to grow and become their own people. It is one of my favorite things to see as a high school teacher and I know other grade-level teachers know exactly what I mean. I am talking about an extended summer break, obviously. They can't even patch the leaky ceilings in many schools. Have you been in any public schools in large intercity districts? There are a myriad of repairs that would take priority first. Heck, my school has airconditioning and it can't even keep the building comfortable. Going to grandmas for a long weekend. Spending a month at camp. A multi-state road trip with the family. July at the family beach house. Going out to play and not coming home until dark.... Not everything in a kids life should be academically centered. There are so many other areas a kid can work on to become a well-rounded adult.
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Post by birdy on Aug 9, 2015 2:09:58 GMT
About 20 years ago, I knew someone who taught in CA and her district went to year round due to overcrowding. The problem was that when it was her time to be "off" she had to clear out her classroom so that a class coming back from their time off would go into it instead. Then in a few weeks when she came back, she had to set up all over again in a new room. This worked because then it wasn't overcrowded, but was a PITA for the teachers. And, for the families, like other posters have said, was a nightmare to schedule vacations, etc. since some kids were off at different times than others.
I'm a former teacher, now a sub and do have a kid in elem and HS. I'm open to the possibility. We go mid August - Mid Oct. with only 1 day off. Then depending on easter, usually go mid Feb - mid April without another break.
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Post by melanell on Aug 9, 2015 2:10:34 GMT
This is what I am referring to when I am saying "year round". Same amount of time off, but in different times. As for who would like to have time off in October or April? I would! I love the Fall & Spring, and it would be nice to travel to warmer weather areas in those months as opposed to going in August when they are truly stifling hot. But I also agree with the pea who said that if the year-round schedule didn't actually help students across the board, that switching just for the sake of changing the break schedule isn't something that should take priority over other more pressing issues.
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Nicole in TX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,951
Jun 26, 2014 2:00:21 GMT
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Post by Nicole in TX on Aug 9, 2015 2:24:35 GMT
What I cannot understand is all the people here who think that spending money for AC is too big of a burden in exchange for the betterment of our education system. Do you realize how absurd that sounds? AC is too much to ask? It's an expense we don't want to offer our kids a competitive edge in a global economy. We know year round school helps kids learn better. It's nothing more than intellectual laziness and an inability to think outside the box, and to look to others to see how it can work. Change is a challenge, but when it's for a worthy cause like improving our children and by default our country and our world, it's worth while. Talk to the school boards, my dear, talk to the school boards.
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Post by darkchami on Aug 9, 2015 2:27:12 GMT
What I cannot understand is all the people here who think that spending money for AC is too big of a burden in exchange for the betterment of our education system. Do you realize how absurd that sounds? AC is too much to ask? It's an expense we don't want to offer our kids a competitive edge in a global economy. We know year round school helps kids learn better. It's nothing more than intellectual laziness and an inability to think outside the box, and to look to others to see how it can work. Change is a challenge, but when it's for a worthy cause like improving our children and by default our country and our world, it's worth while. People are answering the question that was asked. One reason year round schooling does not occur is the financial burden. Installation of AC would cost the district a million or more. The cost of running the AC would be an additional cost. The AC would have to remain on the duration of the day. Our heating system shuts off at noon. Financial constraints are a legitimate answer to the question. That being said, I would love to move into a year round schedule. It would help eliminate the "summer slip" that I see happen with many of our students. More frequent breaks would help me regroup and create new curriculum. I am a big fan of making the change.
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Post by LiLi on Aug 9, 2015 2:29:28 GMT
1) I'm sure we would all be nicer at work if we got 3 months off. Too bad. 2) you mean a chance for kids to forget what they learned the year before? And they don't grow and mature at school? Huh? 3) year-round schools get many breaks. Kids can bond with parentals and vacation then 4) a/c is easy to install. School deal with cold temps, right? This is an easy fix 5) again, they can still be a kid during breaks. 3months off consecutively is unnecessary Yubon, you can't even be nice on a message board of strangers. I hate to think of what you would do with a room full of 30 children for 9.5 months a year! There is something magical that happens with maturity over the summer. This is amazingly evident between the 9th and 10th grades. There is something about being away for the summer, without being surrounded by your peers in the pool of peer pressure that allows kids to grow and become their own people. It is one of my favorite things to see as a high school teacher and I know other grade-level teachers know exactly what I mean. I am talking about an extended summer break, obviously. They can't even patch the leaky ceilings in many schools. Have you been in any public schools in large intercity districts? There are a myriad of repairs that would take priority first. Heck, my school has airconditioning and it can't even keep the building comfortable. Going to grandmas for a long weekend. Spending a month at camp. A multi-state road trip with the family. July at the family beach house. Going out to play and not coming home until dark.... Not everything in a kids life should be academically centered. There are so many other areas a kid can work on to become a well-rounded adult. You can do ALL of those things on your breaks from year round school too...
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Post by bosoxbeth on Aug 9, 2015 2:33:47 GMT
I would strongly resist and resent if this were imposed here. Thankfully, it's totally not on the radar where I live.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 9, 2015 3:11:25 GMT
our high school dates to 1928. There is no adding ac to that part of the building. The next part of the building was built in the 60s. Can't add it to that part either. The part built I the 80s has ac. The windows on the bottom floor are not allowed to have windows ac due to security. I completely understand how expensive installing AC would be, but sort of not getting that it's hard. Do these schools not have a heating system in place? My parents just had central air installed in their house, built in 1907, and it was very easy; unit outside that runs in the same ductwork as their furnace. Same thing is true of my house, built originally in the 1870s. This is only true if the heating system used is forced air with existing ductwork. If the building utilizes a boiler/radiant heat (which many old school buildings here use) it is very expensive to add central air because all of the ductwork would have to be added throughout the entire building. In some buildings it may not even be possible.
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Post by worrywart on Aug 9, 2015 3:49:21 GMT
Blame the teacher lol!! What else is new
In my state, teachers are on a contract paid by the day. Technically, we do not get paid for our summer vacations or other breaks. Most districts do split the salary into 12 equal installments so that paychecks are consistent month to month. So even though it may be called a break or vacation I am not getting paid for it any more than I get paid for the weekends.
Regardless, if we worked more actual days, that would cost more money...most states can barely fund the teachers as it is.
I would not mind spreading vacations out more or having 'year round' school..but honestly, kids do need some type of break. School now is very stressful and taxing on many students and the hours are long and expectations are high. For teachers too...
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 9, 2015 3:55:03 GMT
I don't know another job that has 30ish "bosses" (students) with differing needs and aptitudes and those bosses have anywhere from 1-4 "bosses"(parents/guardians)with very different needs to the original 30 "bosses" and then there are the Administrative bosses that have different criteria that needs to be met. All of these bosses have a say in how the job is done etc. Yeah, I'm not getting that being a teacher is easy and not stressful.
I once worked for 5 different people with very different agendas in one job - I loved the job but hated the agendas because I couldn't please everyone!
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 9, 2015 4:10:18 GMT
I know we considered the idea here, but parents were totally opposed so it was dropped.
At least where I live (BC, Canada) I don't think it would work for kids in gr 10-12,because of the exam schedules. So we can't do it, because parents don't want their younger children to have a different school year than older ones.
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my3freaks
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,206
Location: NH girl living in Colorado
Jun 26, 2014 4:10:56 GMT
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Post by my3freaks on Aug 9, 2015 4:10:24 GMT
My kids were on a year round school during elementary school. I thought it was a great schedule. The teachers that I asked about it, liked it to. They went for 9 weeks, and then had 3 weeks off. I felt like the kids retained more, and that there was less burn out all around. Who wouldn't want a few weeks off every few months? The entire school closed for 2 weeks at Christmas and 2 weeks in the summer. Day cares had "off track" care, just like they do for summer breaks. One of the biggest problems here was that the middle and high schools were on a traditional calendar, so once your oldest moved out of elementary, it became pretty inconvenient having 2 different school calendars. I guess we got lucky b/c our elementary school went to a modified traditional schedule the same year my son went into middle school, so mine had almost the exact same schedule. I think my daughter started back earlier and got out for the year a week or so earlier. I've heard that the operating costs of having the school open all year is another reason districts are moving away from it. My son has graduated now and my daughter is going into 11th grade, but I would fully support a year round schedule again.
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Post by ptamom on Aug 9, 2015 4:31:36 GMT
I would strongly resist and resent if this were imposed here. Thankfully, it's totally not on the radar where I live. Why? Could you explain your reason for resisting? Not trying to call you out specifically, I swear! Your post caught my attention. I'm just honestly curious about the reasons you object to year round schooling so much.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 9, 2015 4:56:45 GMT
I would hate it. We wait SO long for summers in Michigan - I want my kids to be able to swim and play and have fun in the short amount of nice weather that we do get. It would suck for them to sit in classrooms in the summer. We already sit inside enough the other crappy months out of the year. How long a summer break do you have? My kids were on a year round and had up to 8 weeks June/July so it isn't like they were never off during the summer or it wasn't a long break. The break time varied more because of weather issues or extra curricular activities that would start over the summer whether or not my kids were on a traditional schedule or not. twhat is the difference between 8 weeks and the 10 weeks traditional schools have? It sounds like you actually have more times off than we do
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Post by tidegirl on Aug 9, 2015 5:02:01 GMT
I taught 4 track year round in my last teaching position. I was a specialist and was able to create my own schedule. I loved it. In my current position we are on a traditional schedule. In my dream world I would teach at a school on a modified year round schedule.
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Post by lumo on Aug 9, 2015 5:09:42 GMT
Going to grandmas for a long weekend. Spending a month at camp. A multi-state road trip with the family. July at the family beach house. Going out to play and not coming home until dark.... Not everything in a kids life should be academically centered. There are so many other areas a kid can work on to become a well-rounded adult. So do you think that kids who live in areas/other countries with year-round school don't have these kinds of opportunities? Do they not grow into well-rounded adults? That just seems a little far-fetched to me.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 9, 2015 5:26:56 GMT
Going to grandmas for a long weekend. Spending a month at camp. A multi-state road trip with the family. July at the family beach house. Going out to play and not coming home until dark.... Not everything in a kids life should be academically centered. There are so many other areas a kid can work on to become a well-rounded adult. So do you think that kids who live in areas/other countries with year-round school don't have these kinds of opportunities? Do they not grow into well-rounded adults? That just seems a little far-fetched to me. I know that starting in May it is hard to get the kids to go to bed because it is still light out at their bedtime.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 1:25:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 7:23:42 GMT
Going to grandmas for a long weekend. Spending a month at camp. A multi-state road trip with the family. July at the family beach house. Going out to play and not coming home until dark.... Not everything in a kids life should be academically centered. There are so many other areas a kid can work on to become a well-rounded adult. We could have done all those things with our year round school. It was just spread out throughout the year, though we everyone got 4 weeks off in July. And not only did we get summer activities, but we got winter activities such as skiing and tubing down the mountain etc. If I could change to year round right now with our current school I would do it in a heartbeat. I have been planning a vacation for several years for my family and haven't been able to do it well with the traditional schedule because going in the summer time would be way too hot for this one. The summer hours - dark curtains could take care of that. It wasn't really a problem for us for the most part and our school went into the end of June. Honestly, I was so not excited when I found out our school was year round before we ever went. After doing it though now I would love to be back to it. I think a lot of the worries expressed would be soothed by experience. I do think the AC costs are a good worry. While it would be nice to say the kids are worth it (and they are) it usually comes down to voting and not everyone is as big on education as parents often are. Besides the money has to come from somewhere and if more goes to education that means less goes somewhere else. It's not always easy to figure out which is the higher priority.
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 9, 2015 7:38:46 GMT
Twenty years ago this was done in some schools in Orange County Fl. One being the school I worked in.
Parents HATED it. They bitched nonstop about how irritating it was to find sporadic care for their child. That then became the school's problem. So, we had the students who were off-track in childcare on campus shuffled all over (in portables, in the cafeteria etc) while still teaching students who were on track.
The teachers who didn't have classrooms shuffled all their stuff from classroom to classroom every time they went off track.
"Red track" was the traditional calendar track. Parents created a huge stink over ensuring the lottery fashion of getting picked for Red track was honest.
It was a nightmare.
My girls have never been in year round school and have never had any issues with returning to school after a 2.5 month break. I did the Bridge workbook series in their younger grades. Now we go to the library and they earn points in Khan academy in Math.
But, I'm one of those annoying parents who can manage to pull my head out of my cats ass and do that.
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 9, 2015 8:07:00 GMT
And isn't it said that despite the fact that we have the most in class hours the United States is consistently near the bottom of the academic excellence studies a first world countries. We are doing something very wrong We educate everyone. Don't speak English? That's fine, come on in to high school. Take the standardized test, do poorly, then we can point fingers at teachers for not working hard enough. Don't want to be educated, don't want to study? That's fine, we'll enroll you anyway. If you show up on testing day, you'll take the test and your results will affect your teachers' pay and evaluations. Have to go to school as a term of your probation? That's cool, we'll sign you up. You can come in, disrupt the class, cause trouble for the teacher - and then you can test and we can blame the teacher for poor results. In many countries, they do NOT send these types to high school. High school is for kids who are academically inclined and who WANT to be there. Those who don't get shunted into a vocational program. So we compare their test scores (of the kids who like school and tend to do well at it) with our test scores (of all kids, even those who are absent 80% of the time) and then we end up looking bad. The good students in the US are comparable to the good students anywhere. The middle to bad students - well, we can't really compare them since the middle to bad students don't make it to high school in other countries. Let's not forget the children who receive special services in the classroom because they are academically 1+grades below grade level but must take the standardized tests ON grade level.
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Post by gar on Aug 9, 2015 8:38:54 GMT
Can someone please tell me why this hasn't become standard in the US yet? There are so many positives to it and I can't think of any negatives. Seems like teachers just want their summers off. But hell, who doesn't? I would hate it. We wait SO long for summers in Michigan - I want my kids to be able to swim and play and have fun in the short amount of nice weather that we do get. It would suck for them to sit in classrooms in the summer. We already sit inside enough the other crappy months out of the year. You would still have 6+ weeks off wouldn't you, as I understand it?
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 1:25:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 9:48:13 GMT
And isn't it said that despite the fact that we have the most in class hours the United States is consistently near the bottom of the academic excellence studies a first world countries. We are doing something very wrong We educate everyone. Don't speak English? That's fine, come on in to high school. Take the standardized test, do poorly, then we can point fingers at teachers for not working hard enough. Don't want to be educated, don't want to study? That's fine, we'll enroll you anyway. If you show up on testing day, you'll take the test and your results will affect your teachers' pay and evaluations. Have to go to school as a term of your probation? That's cool, we'll sign you up. You can come in, disrupt the class, cause trouble for the teacher - and then you can test and we can blame the teacher for poor results. In many countries, they do NOT send these types to high school. High school is for kids who are academically inclined and who WANT to be there. Those who don't get shunted into a vocational program. So we compare their test scores (of the kids who like school and tend to do well at it) with our test scores (of all kids, even those who are absent 80% of the time) and then we end up looking bad.
The good students in the US are comparable to the good students anywhere. The middle to bad students - well, we can't really compare them since the middle to bad students don't make it to high school in other countries.(Bolded by me ) What countries are you referring to? We send every one of our children to school in the UK, from kindergarten through to high school !
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 9, 2015 9:53:06 GMT
I would hate it. We wait SO long for summers in Michigan - I want my kids to be able to swim and play and have fun in the short amount of nice weather that we do get. It would suck for them to sit in classrooms in the summer. We already sit inside enough the other crappy months out of the year. You would still have 6+ weeks off wouldn't they, as I understand it? Yes, but the time off is usually in 3 week increments throughout the year. Like I said, we had it in OC Florida 20+years. Parents HATED it. Especially those with children in various schools (Elem, Middle, HS.) Only ES had year round. MS and HS students maintained regular traditional calendar. Other than the "rover" teachers seemed indifferent about it. Not that they had a choice in the matter one way or another.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,012
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Aug 9, 2015 10:04:44 GMT
We educate everyone. Don't speak English? That's fine, come on in to high school. Take the standardized test, do poorly, then we can point fingers at teachers for not working hard enough. Don't want to be educated, don't want to study? That's fine, we'll enroll you anyway. If you show up on testing day, you'll take the test and your results will affect your teachers' pay and evaluations. Have to go to school as a term of your probation? That's cool, we'll sign you up. You can come in, disrupt the class, cause trouble for the teacher - and then you can test and we can blame the teacher for poor results. In many countries, they do NOT send these types to high school. High school is for kids who are academically inclined and who WANT to be there. Those who don't get shunted into a vocational program. So we compare their test scores (of the kids who like school and tend to do well at it) with our test scores (of all kids, even those who are absent 80% of the time) and then we end up looking bad.
The good students in the US are comparable to the good students anywhere. The middle to bad students - well, we can't really compare them since the middle to bad students don't make it to high school in other countries.(Bolded by me ) What countries are you referring to? We send every one of our children to school in the UK, from kindergarten through to high school ! In addition, children are not "held back" in England, a child will progress through school with the same year group - just less than 12 months between the oldest and youngest in any year group/class. If needed extra help will be provided. So when children sit their SATs exams here eg at the end of primary school, all children of the same age are being tested which results in an accurate picture countrywide. Ditto the later exams.
The law changed recently so children will have to in some form of schooling or apprenticeship until they are 18, a change from 16.
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Post by gar on Aug 9, 2015 10:06:09 GMT
You would still have 6+ weeks off wouldn't they, as I understand it? Yes, but the time off is usually in 3 week increments throughout the year. Like I said, we had it in OC Florida 20+years. Parents HATED it. Especially those with children in various schools (Elem, Middle, HS.) Only ES had year round. MS and HS students maintained regular traditional calendar. Other than the "rover" teachers seemed indifferent about it. Not that they had a choice in the matter one way or another. We may be at cross purposes here - I meant a 6 week summer break. Others have said that 'year round' actually means that instead of one lengthy summer break and nothing else throughout the year, instead you'd have more frequent, shorter breaks throughout the year as well as a summer break still of 6+ weeks.
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 9, 2015 10:38:12 GMT
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pyccku
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Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 9, 2015 10:57:04 GMT
I'm talking about systems such as the one in France, and I believe Germany is similar. I know Poland is as well.
Students who go to the lycée are academically inclined and college-bound. Students who aren't go to vocational schools. If you don't go to the lycée, you don't take the same test - le bac. The bac is very difficult and it would be easy to look at it and assume that all French students are ahead of American students because they have to pass the bac to graduate (though there isn't really a graduation), the reality is that no, not all French students pass that test to graduate, and only the ones who go to lycée in the first place take that test.
We used to have voc Ed in my district, but it was dropped as too often the students sent to it were minorities. So now we assume that ALL students are college-bound, whether that is their wish or not. So the kids who would have gone into a vocational track in France (and taken the "bac professionel" which isn't the same test at all) go to high school here and get compared to those who have chosen to attend HS in other countries.
So while other countries DO educate all students (up to a point), they don't all get the same education and testing. If I only had the students who had chosen to continue to high school, my results would be better as well. Instead, I get the ones who want to be there along with those who don't.
In the UK, do you not have gCSE and A levels to differentiate? Not everyone gets A levels, correct? If you were to compare only the students who were going for A levels to the general US population you'd get similar results to comparing only lycée student scores to the U.S. scores.
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Deleted
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Sept 28, 2024 1:25:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 11:08:22 GMT
That system to me equates to year round use of the school building and facilities rather than a year round education because each track of children still have the same amount of educational hours/days as they do on a " normal" schedule. I agree using the school all year round is going to cost more but that isn't the system we have in England ( or Australia as per a previous poster). They have 190 attendance days here divided into three sessions( terms) and overall they have 13 weeks per year off school. The school building is closed during those 13 weeks that are spread out over the 12 months. The maximum summer, end of the academic year break here is usually 6 weeks but we gain at Easter & Christmas ( 2 weeks each) and we have a week half way through a session( term). We don't have the individual holiday days that you do either. Our Public holidays are tagged on to the Easter,Christmas and half term week in May/June. The other public holidays happen to be in August anyhow.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 9, 2015 11:36:30 GMT
The U.S. Is actually near the top in number of hours spent in the classroom. I would not mind going year around. I think more breaks throughout the year and a shorter summer would be better for the kids and we would see less regression. Kids in Texas go to school for 177 days. Kids in Ohio go 180 days Kids in NYS go 180. I have mixed feelings about year round school. For those of us who teach/live in rural areas, there's no extra money for AC in our old buildings. Many kids here work the family farms during the summer--and during the year. There was talk many years ago about this concept but honestly, it was not well received by parents. SO please don't be pointing fingers at the teachers... On a side note---why do we have to poke fun or criticize any person's job??? There's pluses and minuses to every job...
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Post by christine58 on Aug 9, 2015 11:41:22 GMT
What I cannot understand is all the people here who think that spending money for AC is too big of a burden in exchange for the betterment of our education system. Do you realize how absurd that sounds? AC is too much to ask? It's an expense we don't want to offer our kids a competitive edge in a global economy. We know year round school helps kids learn better. It's nothing more than intellectual laziness and an inability to think outside the box, and to look to others to see how it can work. Change is a challenge, but when it's for a worthy cause like improving our children and by default our country and our world, it's worth while. People are answering the question that was asked. One reason year round schooling does not occur is the financial burden. Installation of AC would cost the district a million or more. The cost of running the AC would be an additional cost. The AC would have to remain on the duration of the day. Our heating system shuts off at noon. Financial constraints are a legitimate answer to the question. That being said, I would love to move into a year round schedule. It would help eliminate the "summer slip" that I see happen with many of our students. More frequent breaks would help me regroup and create new curriculum. I am a big fan of making the change. Many schools around me--western NY---because costs went up and state aid went down, we got new "rules" about the use of energy in our rooms. Heat was turned down and off early, no new materials were bought, field trips cut, teaching positions cut. I can hear the uproar in many districts if AC was installed yet new books weren't purchased, teaching positions were cut, etc.
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