Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 14:12:45 GMT
Perhaps the LEOs need to start policing their own. If there weren't so many blatant incidents of them shooting unarmed people, beating up people, threatening civilians who are taping them, etc. then this predicament would not have happened. They need to step up when they see other LEO doing the wrong thing. Until they police their own, the public will be doing it for them. I completely agree. Blue code seems to have escaladed.
I grew up with a LEO as a father, both civilian and military police, my mother was a 911 dispatcher and even my step-mother was a US Marshal in charge of a regional WITSAP program before her retirement, so I've been around LEOs my entire life. I've known courageous and brave men and women who wear the uniform and then I've know real assholes who I have wondered how in the hell did they become a LEO.
Just like any profession, there are going to be "bad apples", but when your profession is public safety you are going to be held at a much higher standard and expectations and all it takes is one "bad apple" or bad incident for you to lose the public trust, and if you don't have the type of personality that can handle the high standard and expectations, then LE probably isn't the profession for you.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 14:14:56 GMT
Let's see. An elderly woman had some sort of mental episode so her family became concerned and called the police. The police officer shot and killed the woman because she was Asian, was holding a vegetable peeler ,and the police officer feared for his life because he was afraid she would use a martial arts move on him. Officier not held accountable. A woman , who had mental problems, got ahold of a 1 inch razor blade. She was cutting herself. Family could not get the razor blade away from her so they called the police for help. One officer came and when the woman walked toward him with the razor blade the officer feared for his life and shot and killed her. Officer not held accountable. Oh wait a minute. Police dept did say that maybe they shouldn't have sent this inexperience officer out by himself. 15 year old boy was walking across a field holding a toy rifle. Police ordered him to drop the rifle and because he didn't drop it fast enough they shot and killed him. Again the officers were not held accountable. Well documented are the unarmed black men and boys killed by police. Some justified, some questionable, some of the officers have been arrested. Problem is the first three incidents I listed were before Ferguson. The officers that are now being held accountable for their actions happened after Ferguson. What happened to the Asian lady happened in my neck of the woods over 20 years ago. As you can see it stuck with me. Since then every time there was a police officer shooting that is questionable like the ones I listed above I kept a mental score on how many times a cop was held responsible. Not once. When the 15 year old boy was killed his family and friends protested. Had marches through the city for days. I knew about it because again this happened in my neck of the woods but I don't think it received much national media coverage. Then Ferguson happened and people said enough and started to question the tactics used by the police. Granted Michael Brown may not have been the best poster boy for this but it brought to light police actions and accountability. What happened to this officer is on him. Either that or he was sent out into the field without the proper training and tools to do his/her jobs. To use the media as an excuse for not doing your job is stupid and could be covering up the real reason he couldn't or wouldn't handle this guy. I think for far to long in some cases police officers are not being held accountable for their actions unless there is public outrage. I also think the folks on the other side need to step back and admit that not every shooting is not justified. We need to meet in the middle but right now both sides are going to the extreme. Are you saying the officer shouldn't have done his job? It was a simple traffic stop until the driver got out of his car and came towards the cop. The officer could have pulled his gun and shot the driver before he got to the police car. Then all the bystanders would have been taking pictures of a dead civilian, rather than a beaten cop, perpetuating the bad cop innocent civilian mantra that has become the norm now. This has made being a police officer into a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't". I get that there are a lot of over the top police officers. One locally stepped down because he stopped somebody who had given him the finger as he drove by. Pepper sprayed him 20 seconds into the stop, video was taped of the officer kicking him once he was back at the precinct even though he was already handcuffed. Personally, I'm sick of hearing "black lives matter". Of course they do, but so do all the others. Where is the outrage when a black cop kills a white person? (I'm probably going to regret posting this) Just to let you know...the black lives matter people are the ONLY ones who have been trying to get the officer who shot and killed a young white boy two weeks ago brought to justice. That is their question too...where is all the outrage about this kid??? Zachary Hammond.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 17, 2015 14:27:07 GMT
Are you saying the officer shouldn't have done his job? It was a simple traffic stop until the driver got out of his car and came towards the cop. The officer could have pulled his gun and shot the driver before he got to the police car. Then all the bystanders would have been taking pictures of a dead civilian, rather than a beaten cop, perpetuating the bad cop innocent civilian mantra that has become the norm now. This has made being a police officer into a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't". I get that there are a lot of over the top police officers. One locally stepped down because he stopped somebody who had given him the finger as he drove by. Pepper sprayed him 20 seconds into the stop, video was taped of the officer kicking him once he was back at the precinct even though he was already handcuffed. Personally, I'm sick of hearing "black lives matter". Of course they do, but so do all the others. Where is the outrage when a black cop kills a white person? (I'm probably going to regret posting this) Perhaps when the number of unarmed white people shot by black cops is anywhere near the opposite you may hear the outcry but the numbers are so freaking skewed I can't believe you would even bring it up. What's it been? One white guy killed by a black cop versus 100 black people killed by white cops? Get real. Also are you impling the pepper spraying, kicking cop shouldn't have resigned? [/quote] Absolutely not saying the cop shouldn't have resigned. He should have and did. There are lots of great cops, but there are also those who are on a power trip. We've all seen the video of Eric Gardner and the individual who was shot in the back as he was running from the police (name escapes me at the moment). Both of those outraged me. Neither should have happened. I do not know the statistics, but my point was where is the outrage. Overall, more whites are killed by police a year than blacks or Hispanics. But, the news media seems focused on white cop killing black individual. At the rate they are going, we're going to be back to the race wars that we've already seen. Something needs to be done, but we can't take the power of the police away. Where will we be then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 14:40:13 GMT
I had heard that. We have a case here in Iowa that is so sad and troubling and as time as gone on, the tangled web of deceit surrounding this young man's death has gotten worse. Now the county prosecutor has recused herself because - "Osage County Prosecutor Amanda Grellner recused herself from the Brandon Ellingson drowning investigation this spring, claiming a conflict of interest. Chet Pleban, an attorney representing Highway Patrol Sgt. Randy Henry, who was disciplined after criticizing patrol training before lawmakers, said Grellner might have felt she owed the Patrol a favor after state troopers exonerated her son during a 2012 rape investigation." Brandon EllingsonYOU tell me that the police officers that took this young man into custody were trained properly.....nonsense....they weren't or they didn't give a shit....either answer is unacceptable. It doesn't have to be a shooting or that type of incident that portrays LEOs in an unfavorable light.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 14:48:24 GMT
What happened to this officer is on him. Either that or he was sent out into the field without the proper training and tools to do his/her jobs. To use the media as an excuse for not doing your job is stupid and could be covering up the real reason he couldn't or wouldn't handle this guy. Are you saying the officer shouldn't have done his job? It was a simple traffic stop until the driver got out of his car and came towards the cop. The officer could have pulled his gun and shot the driver before he got to the police car. Then all the bystanders would have been taking pictures of a dead civilian, rather than a beaten cop, perpetuating the bad cop innocent civilian mantra that has become the norm now. This has made being a police officer into a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't". I get that there are a lot of over the top police officers. One locally stepped down because he stopped somebody who had given him the finger as he drove by. Pepper sprayed him 20 seconds into the stop, video was taped of the officer kicking him once he was back at the precinct even though he was already handcuffed. Personally, I'm sick of hearing "black lives matter". Of course they do, but so do all the others. Where is the outrage when a black cop kills a white person? (I'm probably going to regret posting this) So are you saying the only way this officer could have prevented the guy from beating him up was to shot him? There are always other options and if we send officers out in the field thinking the only way to handle situations like this is with guns then we have bigger problems. The police should be able handle situations like this without guns. So again I say to blame the media for what happened to this officer is bogus. Either he didn't have the proper training to handle the situation or he had some other reason. And I have no idea what it would be.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 17, 2015 16:04:01 GMT
I think this article in a Time magazine is relavent to the OP- link to Time articleI live in the suburbs of Philadelphia. In the morning, as I am getting ready for work, I turn on local news to get the weather and traffic report. Not a morning goes by where there is not at least one but often more than not multiple shootings by the criminal element. The stats are available on-line. I live in MS right outside of Memphis and they have at least one shooting there every. single. day. I cannot believe the blatant disregard for human life I see on the news every night. There was an LEO killed in Memphis a couple of weeks ago. He accidentally surprised two males conducting a misdemeanor pot deal. He was shot to death by one of them that was out on probation. It is now believed that his defence is going to be that he thought he was in fear for his life because of all of the "bad" officer shootings that had been happening. In 2009 we had 2 officers ambushed while they were sitting in their car doing paperwork. One was killed and his partner was injured. The killer tried to claim insanity but the jury rejected that plea. Since he went to trial after Ferguson he used police hatred and brutality as his defense. Even though he murdered Officer Brenton and attempted to murder 3 other officers 5 years before Ferguson. But I'm sure someone here will say it was the cops fault they were ambushed while doing their paperwork. I'm sure there are a few here that will silently think Officer Brenton deserved what he got for all the bad cops. It's really sad when I see what some people write because you know that's just the tip of what they are thinking.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 16:11:30 GMT
I live in MS right outside of Memphis and they have at least one shooting there every. single. day. I cannot believe the blatant disregard for human life I see on the news every night. There was an LEO killed in Memphis a couple of weeks ago. He accidentally surprised two males conducting a misdemeanor pot deal. He was shot to death by one of them that was out on probation. It is now believed that his defence is going to be that he thought he was in fear for his life because of all of the "bad" officer shootings that had been happening. In 2009 we had 2 officers ambushed while they were sitting in their car doing paperwork. One was killed and his partner was injured. The killer tried to claim insanity but the jury rejected that plea. Since he went to trial after Ferguson he used police hatred and brutality as his defense. Even though he murdered Officer Brenton and attempted to murder 3 other officers 5 years before Ferguson. But I'm sure someone here will say it was the cops fault they were ambushed while doing their paperwork. I'm sure there are a few here that will silently think Officer Brenton deserved what he got for all the bad cops. It's really sad when I see what some people write because you know that's just the tip of what they are thinking. that is a far leap to say that we would fault the officers for doing their paperwork. Really. No officer deserves to be beaten while others watch. It's not a tit for tat situation. It's a problem that needs addressed. Supporting training, body cameras, transparency, and admitting that some LEOs go too far and then cover it up is not thesane as wishing officers dead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 18:08:58 GMT
Who's that someone? Who here would think that? I can't think of a single person on this board that would think it's okay for a police officer to be ambushed and killed. That's a bullshit statement and YOU know it. "silently think it"...how fucking ignorant. smdh.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 17, 2015 18:49:31 GMT
Does it really translate that someone who thinks bad cops should be held accountable is completely anti-police?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 18:53:47 GMT
No, way too many people don't know, or refuse to believe the evidence showing it was a lie. Just here last week, we had a thread where people here still didn't know. The facts of his case don't change just because of ferguson do they? So he found a lawyer. It's doesn't change the crime. The point I was making is that too many people believe Darren Wilson was a bad cop, because they're either not informed of the facts or refuse to believe them and just go with the theory that any shoot is a bad shoot. I'm not sure I understand what point you're making.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 19:30:03 GMT
Actually, I was referring to back to peality saying this:
A LEO friend of mine was shot years ago by a POS drug dealer. Shot in the head, because he had a vest on. At the time, he had a wife and two young boys who grew up without a dad. His murderer is in prison but I heard ( I live in a different state) that after the Michael Brown shooting he was capitalizing on hands up don't shoot and found a lawyer to try and appeal his case - again.
I was questioning how this is relevant? The facts of this drug dealers case don't change just because he is "capitalizing" on the Michael brown case, whatever that's supposed to mean.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 19:30:56 GMT
The facts of his case don't change just because of ferguson do they? So he found a lawyer. It's doesn't change the crime. The point I was making is that too many people believe Darren Wilson was a bad cop, because they're either not informed of the facts or refuse to believe them and just go with the theory that any shoot is a bad shoot. I'm not sure I understand what point you're making. Oh, and I flat out do believe Darren Wilson is a racist cop. Even mike brown aside, he has a history.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 17, 2015 19:38:49 GMT
Are you saying the officer shouldn't have done his job? It was a simple traffic stop until the driver got out of his car and came towards the cop. The officer could have pulled his gun and shot the driver before he got to the police car. Then all the bystanders would have been taking pictures of a dead civilian, rather than a beaten cop, perpetuating the bad cop innocent civilian mantra that has become the norm now. This has made being a police officer into a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't". I get that there are a lot of over the top police officers. One locally stepped down because he stopped somebody who had given him the finger as he drove by. Pepper sprayed him 20 seconds into the stop, video was taped of the officer kicking him once he was back at the precinct even though he was already handcuffed. Personally, I'm sick of hearing "black lives matter". Of course they do, but so do all the others. Where is the outrage when a black cop kills a white person? (I'm probably going to regret posting this) So are you saying the only way this officer could have prevented the guy from beating him up was to shot him? There are always other options and if we send officers out in the field thinking the only way to handle situations like this is with guns then we have bigger problems. The police should be able handle situations like this without guns. So again I say to blame the media for what happened to this officer is bogus. Either he didn't have the proper training to handle the situation or he had some other reason. And I have no idea what it would be. I'm not up on police training, but, in my mind, I don't see what choices he had. It would appear that the driver he stopped had intentions of doing something to the officer. If he didn't, he would have stayed in his car waiting for the officer to approach the car. Let's see..the officer could have beaten him with his billy club...oops..no, people taking his picture would have blamed the officer for hitting him. Ok..let's try the taser...oops..that won't work either. How about pepper spray...oops..another that will be photographed. He didn't draw his gun, the criminal used it to pistol whip the officer. So, please, tell me, what you think his options were. Not thinking that talking would have helped in this situation.
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Aug 17, 2015 19:48:14 GMT
Another element adding to the current distrust of LEO's by the general public is the insane number of occurrences of civil forfeitures that are taking place in our country. LEO's are stealing money and property from people who have not been convicted of any crimes. It is a problem that needs to be resolved ASAP.
ETA: Not "all" LEO's are doing this. But there are many jurisdictions throughout the U.S. where this is occurring and needs to stop.
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 22:00:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 20:02:40 GMT
So are you saying the only way this officer could have prevented the guy from beating him up was to shot him? There are always other options and if we send officers out in the field thinking the only way to handle situations like this is with guns then we have bigger problems. The police should be able handle situations like this without guns. So again I say to blame the media for what happened to this officer is bogus. Either he didn't have the proper training to handle the situation or he had some other reason. And I have no idea what it would be. I'm not up on police training, but, in my mind, I don't see what choices he had. It would appear that the driver he stopped had intentions of doing something to the officer. If he didn't, he would have stayed in his car waiting for the officer to approach the car. Let's see..the officer could have beaten him with his billy club...oops..no, people taking his picture would have blamed the officer for hitting him. Ok..let's try the taser...oops..that won't work either. How about pepper spray...oops..another that will be photographed. He didn't draw his gun, the criminal used it to pistol whip the officer. So, please, tell me, what you think his options were. Not thinking that talking would have helped in this situation. Ok I assume he had the options that you mentioned so why didn't he use them? Do you not see a problem with the the fact that he didn't? Why give the police the options you mention if they are not going to use them? One would hope the police are smarter then the fools they are dealing with. Don't you agree? But no it's easier to blame the media and all the people with cell phones for all the ills of the country.
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 22:00:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 20:15:24 GMT
The point I was making is that too many people believe Darren Wilson was a bad cop, because they're either not informed of the facts or refuse to believe them and just go with the theory that any shoot is a bad shoot. I'm not sure I understand what point you're making. Oh, and I flat out do believe Darren Wilson is a racist cop. Even mike brown aside, he has a history. That's the first I've heard that. What history does he have?
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 17, 2015 20:43:51 GMT
I'm not up on police training, but, in my mind, I don't see what choices he had. It would appear that the driver he stopped had intentions of doing something to the officer. If he didn't, he would have stayed in his car waiting for the officer to approach the car. Let's see..the officer could have beaten him with his billy club...oops..no, people taking his picture would have blamed the officer for hitting him. Ok..let's try the taser...oops..that won't work either. How about pepper spray...oops..another that will be photographed. He didn't draw his gun, the criminal used it to pistol whip the officer. So, please, tell me, what you think his options were. Not thinking that talking would have helped in this situation. Ok I assume he had the options that you mentioned so why didn't he use them? Do you not see a problem with the the fact that he didn't? Why give the police the options you mention if they are not going to use them? One would hope the police are smarter then the fools they are dealing with. Don't you agree? But no it's easier to blame the media and all the people with cell phones for all the ills of the country. Well, there you have it. All in all, we're on the same page. Not sure why we had to go round and round to get there. The officer has been pretty much reduced to no options because there's always somebody around the corner with a cell phone taking video. At this point, I'm assuming (and I know what they say about assuming), even the officer who has nothing to hide or worry about, rather than taking action that he's been trained to do, is now stopping to think about who's around him with video, how it's going to affect his life and should he do what he's been trained to do. By then, the criminal is already a step or two ahead of him. I feel for law enforcement in these new times.
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Post by jonda1974 on Aug 17, 2015 20:59:33 GMT
The point I was making is that too many people believe Darren Wilson was a bad cop, because they're either not informed of the facts or refuse to believe them and just go with the theory that any shoot is a bad shoot. I'm not sure I understand what point you're making. Oh, and I flat out do believe Darren Wilson is a racist cop. Even mike brown aside, he has a history. Link to the history?
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 22:00:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 21:02:00 GMT
Ok I assume he had the options that you mentioned so why didn't he use them? Do you not see a problem with the the fact that he didn't? Why give the police the options you mention if they are not going to use them? One would hope the police are smarter then the fools they are dealing with. Don't you agree? But no it's easier to blame the media and all the people with cell phones for all the ills of the country. Well, there you have it. All in all, we're on the same page. Not sure why we had to go round and round to get there. The officer has been pretty much reduced to no options because there's always somebody around the corner with a cell phone taking video. At this point, I'm assuming (and I know what they say about assuming), even the officer who has nothing to hide or worry about, rather than taking action that he's been trained to do, is now stopping to think about who's around him with video, how it's going to affect his life and should he do what he's been trained to do. By then, the criminal is already a step or two ahead of him. I feel for law enforcement in these new times. No we are not on the page. Any police officer who let's those around him/her influence how he/she does his/her job should look for a new line of work. Because that very hesitancy could cause the loss of innocent lives.
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 23:03:59 GMT
Ok I assume he had the options that you mentioned so why didn't he use them? Do you not see a problem with the the fact that he didn't? Why give the police the options you mention if they are not going to use them? One would hope the police are smarter then the fools they are dealing with. Don't you agree? But no it's easier to blame the media and all the people with cell phones for all the ills of the country. Well, there you have it. All in all, we're on the same page. Not sure why we had to go round and round to get there. The officer has been pretty much reduced to no options because there's always somebody around the corner with a cell phone taking video. At this point, I'm assuming (and I know what they say about assuming), even the officer who has nothing to hide or worry about, rather than taking action that he's been trained to do, is now stopping to think about who's around him with video, how it's going to affect his life and should he do what he's been trained to do. By then, the criminal is already a step or two ahead of him. I feel for law enforcement in these new times. I feel for officers in these times too. But I also feel for the victims of police brutality and am thankful that cell phones are making some of these police episodes public. They've been hidden for forty years plus. Don't you feel for innocent victims of a teeny percentage of bad cops too?
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 17, 2015 23:08:18 GMT
Before being hired on ferguson, Darren Wilson was a part of a police force that was terrorizing blacks and was then disbanded. All officers were fired. He was given the right to reapply to his job but chose to apply to the ferguson department.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,812
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Aug 17, 2015 23:33:30 GMT
Okay, I live in the STL area, not far from Ferguson, so I lived through the unending news stories about this for a solid few months between the time Mike Brown was killed and the time the grand jury decided not to indict Darren Wilson. In all of those months, I never heard anything like this--just the opposite in fact. So, where did you get this information? Do you have a link? (Or I should say a reputable link?)
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Post by Peace Sign on Aug 18, 2015 0:31:36 GMT
Just google his job history. I have an article from the post, don't know how to insert link.
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 22:00:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 3:00:27 GMT
Before being hired on ferguson, Darren Wilson was a part of a police force that was terrorizing blacks and was then disbanded. All officers were fired. He was given the right to reapply to his job but chose to apply to the ferguson department. Okay, I googled. The entire force was disbanded because of racial tension between police and the community and he was offered to reapply for his job. There was nothing showing Wilson himself was responsible for any of it, only a commendation and award ceremony. And unless they give out awards for being racist, I find nothing showing he is.
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