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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 26, 2015 2:32:21 GMT
How do you feel about training and whose responsibility it is to get you properly trained for the job?
I recently left a position I had for the last two years and accepted a position in a different division within the same company. In my previous job, my boss was terrible about training me even though I sat right next to him. He was an extreme introvert and never really talked to anyone. I was constantly asking him how to do stuff and I was constantly finding out things that I should have known but had never even heard of. There were so many tools and systems that could have helped me for two years but I had no idea. I pretty much just got tired of having to take the lead and ask him to show me stuff, and being treated like an annoyance every time.
It is now Day 7 of my new job and I'm starting to think that it is just more of the same. I have yet to have a conversation with my new boss even though she sits 2 rows over from me. She keeps saying that we will sit down soon but that hasn't happened. The lady I am replacing works in the next building over and she keeps blowing me off. My two co-workers are always off in meetings that I'm sure I should be in too but they forget to send me the meeting invite. In fact today at 9:28am, everyone suddenly got up and left the area. At 9:33 I instant messaged my co-worker and asked her if I was missing a meeting and she told me where they were. I walked in late in front of several executives to a meeting that turned out to be very helpful and very important. And then later I still had to ask to be added to the recurring meeting invite so it would show up on my Outlook calendar.
I can tell that I will need to be forceful in.this job too in order to get trained. But honestly....I'm over it. I have no interest in forcing the issue. Today, other than that meeting, I did NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. I went to lunch and played games on my phone all day while sitting at my desk. My attitude right now is......when you're ready to train me, I'll be over here making $45/hour doing NOTHING. I feel like that guy in Office Space.
So am I wrong in wanting my boss and co-workers to take the lead on training me? Or should I push it myself? I'm mentally exhausted and just really don't care any more.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 2:36:53 GMT
I feel it is up to my boss to either train me or arrange for me to be trained. But, if he/she didn't I would be pushy about it because we do a 90 day probation and if I haven't learned enough to be useful to them I could be terminated and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on since probationary terminations are much less to be documented than firing someone past the probationary period.
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Post by jamielynn on Aug 26, 2015 2:37:26 GMT
I can only speak to my last 3 jobs - but I have had a formal training session with a trainer. Then in each job we have had Mentors who we go to with any questions we have. We have also worked as shadows on the job with the mentors before actually doing the job ourselves. This is in different industries from each other.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 2:50:08 GMT
It sounds like the corporate culture is just not focused on training.
I had a position like that once. I transferred from Human Services to Facility Management so had no relative experience to fall back on. After a year of not being trained I returned to HS. I did document a lot for myself so that when it came time for my annual review they couldn't ding me on anything for which I had not received training.
It was a LONG year.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 3:01:40 GMT
Really, if you (the global you) accept a position for which you do not already have the training and experience, I think you should come in with your goals and plans for getting up to speed. Dove-tail that plan in with anything the employer does offer in the way of training (formal or informal). I think this is especially true if it's not an entry level position. If someone there has the the time to sit with you for days on end to teach you the job, they could just do it themselves, and your new position would be redundant.
Oh, and at $45/hour, if a person was found playing games on their phone during the probationary period instead of working, that would be the first formal warning. If the warning was met with snark, I don't suspect that employee would make the 30 day mark.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 26, 2015 3:05:35 GMT
Really, if you (the global you) accept a position for which you do not already have the training and experience, I think you should come in with your goals and plans for getting up to speed. Dove-tail that plan in with anything the employer does offer in the way of training (formal or informal). I think this is especially true if it's not an entry level position. If someone there has the the time to sit with you for days on end to teach you the job, they could just do it themselves, and your new position would be redundant. Oh, and at $45/hour, if a person was found playing games on their phone during the probationary period instead of working, that would be the first formal warning. If the warning was met with snark, I don't suspect that employee would make the 30 day mark. I'm not on any kind of probationary period. They don't fire anyone, ever, for anything. Just sayin'.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 3:08:06 GMT
Well, then, you're golden, I suppose. Enjoy your self-imposed under-employment.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 26, 2015 3:16:16 GMT
Well, then, you're golden, I suppose. Enjoy your self-imposed under-employment. LOL
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Aug 26, 2015 3:23:48 GMT
Perhaps, they are passive aggressively avoiding training you, for fear, that you will pass them on your way up the company ladder. I personally, would ask take the initiative and ask, learn and find out all that the job entails. Starting with asking each day "are their any meetings scheduled today, that I need to be present at?"
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 26, 2015 4:18:43 GMT
I have had jobs like that and I hated it. How are you supposed to know what to do if no one is willing to show you the ropes even once? Osmosis? I think I would keep barking up trees until someone started to respond, and if the person immediately supervising you won't do it continue up the food chain until someone forces the issue. The only thing worse than being bored at work is feeling lost because no one will tell you what you're supposed to be doing.
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Post by k8smom on Aug 26, 2015 4:40:23 GMT
You have every right to expect to be properly trained or have a person / resource to go to with questions. It seems very unprofessional for the entire office to get up to attend a meeting and leave you behind! Please tell me this is not common practice now, the whole "sink or swim" method of training?
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Post by julieinsweden on Aug 26, 2015 4:41:31 GMT
Use Outlook to see when your boss is free and book a meeting with her. Go in with your job description and ask for specific info on the aspects that you can't figure out for yourself.
Whilst your at it study your colleges calendars to see when the reoccurring meetings are and ask if the meeting at x time on Mondays is something that you should be attending.
To answer you question. As a consultant who changes assignment regularly, I've never received training for any role. I have to ask alot of questions to find what I'm looking for. But I think its on me to bring skills to the role and ask for any thing I might be missing.
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Post by miominmio on Aug 26, 2015 4:47:56 GMT
You need to be proactive. If they don't offer training....ask for it! (And log it somewhere, if not being properly trained is used against you later, you can document everything).
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 5:04:31 GMT
Use Outlook to see when your boss is free and book a meeting with her. Go in with your job description and ask for specific info on the aspects that you can't figure out for yourself. Whilst your at it study your colleges calendars to see when the reoccurring meetings are and ask if the meeting at x time on Mondays is something that you should be attending. To answer you question. As a consultant who changes assignment regularly, I've never received training for any role. I have to ask alot of questions to find what I'm looking for. But I think its on me to bring skills to the role and ask for any thing I might be missing. How do you study a colleague's calendar if they haven't shared it with you which in the situation Yubon is in, very likely. We use outlook at work but I can't just access people's calendar because I want to.
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Post by penny on Aug 26, 2015 5:52:09 GMT
I don't necessarily expect them to train me, but I'd do expect them to make sure I have access to what I need... Things like the calendar, schedule, training manuals (if applicable), notes or similar of what's in progress so I can catch myself up, etc... I'd also expect my boss to set a minimum of an hour aside in the first week to go over the very basics with me...
Is it possible that since you were already working for the company they're assuming you have access/know this stuff? Doesn't explain your first boss though...
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Post by AN on Aug 26, 2015 11:06:41 GMT
It sounds like you're totally over it at this point, but hopefully tomorrow is a new day. Even when you have great job security, it still gets boring at some point when you don't have much to do. Here's my experience on people getting up to speed, take what makes sense in your organization and leave the rest: - Of course there are going to be proprietary systems that they need to teach you. However, the more you can make that not your boss's responsibility, the better. True or not, the boss usually perceives themselves as "very busy" and may not even know how to use the systems themselves. I'd recommend requesting a 30 minute meeting, first thing in the day (so boss doesn't get behind on meetings and skip yours), and coming in with a white pad to brainstorm a list of all the things/systems you need to learn and people it would be helpful to shadow to learn those things. Position the meeting as "There are a lot of new things I need to learn coming over from X division, so I wanted to create a list and get your input on all the programs and information I should be getting up to speed on. There are probably some things that I'll have to learn from you, but I bet there are a lot of things I can either teach myself or find someone else to learn from once I know what they are."
- In the meeting, keep pressing for more things that she isn't think off. Ask lots of questions, "What else aren't we thinking of?" "Are there any systems related to Y responsibility?" "What recurring meetings does the group have that I should know about?" (she should pull out her calendar at this point, if she doesn't, ask another question - maybe something like "Is there someone whose calendar I should take a look at to make sure I'm included in everything?"). You may want to bring your job description with you to the meeting to get memory triggers of things to ask about. There is always one more question to ask.
- So create that list, and then in the next column, have your boss indicate who would be a good person to learn that from. Leave the meeting telling your boss you are going to create a onboarding plan that has you learning all of those items by "X" date (maybe 3 weeks from now, whatever is realistic for how long it takes to learn things in your company). Ask your boss "I'm going to contact these people and see when they can schedule time to teach me these things. Is it okay if I let them know we talked and you asked me to reach out to them?" Then you've got a name to drop.
- If there is stuff you can teach yourself, do it. I am blown away by how many things people come and ask me to train them in that they could learn watching a 5 minute YouTube video. Frankly, it's disrespectful of my time (these aren't my direct reports) and it makes them look non-resourceful. Any sort of publicly available software, at least start with some of their tutorials to learn the basics and then talk with the right person to learn how it is modified for use in your company.
- Put your onboarding plan into a spreadsheet with the thing to learn, deadline, and person you're going to get help from. Send it to your boss recapping your conversation. Maybe add columns for "Requested Meeting/Next Step" and then write down either the date you scheduled with them or if you didn't get a response.
- Email/call those people to request time. Most everyone hates training new people, so show them how you're not going to be a big drain on their time. You can say something like "Would it be better to do an hour all at once or two half-hour sessions?" I'm a big fan of sending meeting invites (if you use Outlook/Lotus Notes) where you've looked at their availability. People seem more compelled to respond to a meeting invitation than a regular email.
- Schedule a follow up with your boss in a week or two to update her on your progress. By then she might have thought of more things you should learn. It is also a time you can ask for help "clearing the path" if some people haven't agreed to times to teach you.
- Take awesome notes during each training. I don't know what your role is, but if you make that into an "onboarding plan/handbook" and document what you were taught, it might really make you look like a rockstar. Not like you have anything else to do yet! If they are never going to hire anyone else for this role, may not be necessary, but it is something to do and if someone else is hired it should reduce the amount of new-person training you need to do.
One other thing: Is it possible they think because they made an "internal" hire, they wouldn't need to do as much training and are putting you on the back burner? Different divisions within a company can be so different, but one of the appealing things about internal hires is not having to do as much onboarding. Since they know they don't need to show you where the break room is and set up your new computer, etc etc - - they may just be neglecting all the other stuff that happens during those processes. That doesn't excuse it, but it may help you be less frustrated by it. Going into the meeting/onboarding plan process with a positive attitude is so important, but it can be hard if you're already ticked off that you had to take the initiative to make it happen.
Good luck.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Aug 26, 2015 11:26:36 GMT
It's inexcusable behaviour but so typical from the corporate environment. It also drives me crazy that the corporate mentality is that the new person has to take the initiative. No, if you are bringing me into your department, get off your "very busy" ass and actually give me the tools and information I need. Unlike AN 's very thorough list, I just disagree that it should be on @yubon to be added to meeting requests or figuring out for herself what she's supposed to do. Sure, if you're a keener book a meeting and demand that they go through everything, however that's giving your boss and the rest of the department a pass on doing their job, part of which is bringing the new person up to speed. However, it's so typical in the corporate environment... especially one that is managed by people who shouldn't be managers. Good managers will actually engage with their employees and have everything set up and ready to go. It sounds like you have managers that just got the title because they either can't actually do anything or because higher ups were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm with you, until you show me what to do and actually engage me with what needs to be done, I'll be over in the corner doing whatever the hell I want on your dime. Have a problem with that? Then actually train me. It's that simple.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,367
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Aug 26, 2015 11:32:30 GMT
You lost me at "...$45.00/hour doing nothing..."
Sounds like my dream job!
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Post by AN on Aug 26, 2015 11:35:48 GMT
It's inexcusable behaviour but so typical from the corporate environment. It also drives me crazy that the corporate mentality is that the new person has to take the initiative. No, if you are bringing me into your department, get off your "very busy" ass and actually give me the tools and information I need. Unlike AN 's very thorough list, I just disagree that it should be on @yubon to be added to meeting requests or figuring out for herself what she's supposed to do. Sure, if you're a keener book a meeting and demand that they go through everything, however that's giving your boss and the rest of the department a pass on doing their job, part of which is bringing the new person up to speed. However, it's so typical in the corporate environment... especially one that is managed by people who shouldn't be managers. Good managers will actually engage with their employees and have everything set up and ready to go. It sounds like you have managers that just got the title because they either can't actually do anything or because higher ups were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm with you, until you show me what to do and actually engage me with what needs to be done, I'll be over in the corner doing whatever the hell I want on your dime. Have a problem with that? Then actually train me. It's that simple. How is that working out for you? Sure, in a perfect world, companies and bosses would be perfectly prepared to train you. In the real world, people are busy, don't know how to do the roles they have hired for, and so on. If you just want to show up, get your paycheck, and do the least amount of work possible, your plan is fine. Nothing wrong with it, but doesn't seem like a fulfilling way to spend 35%+ of your waking hours every week. If you are interested in promotions, learning new skills, getting good recommendations, having something to bring when you interview for a new, better paying company... then it is in your own personal best interest long-term to take the initiative to learn. It really just depends what you want out of your job/career. As for how it is working out for me, I have increased my salary 5x in the 9 years I have been at my company. But I don't think I've been through a single training that someone else told me I needed to go through.
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Post by alissa103 on Aug 26, 2015 12:43:08 GMT
Maybe it's you? I mean this not in a jerky way. But if this is the second job you've had in a row with this experience, maybe there's something to it. Are you annoying in how you ask questions? Do you put out a "I'm too good for this job" or "I'm smarter than my boss" vibe? Are you friendly and try to get to know your coworkers? People want to help others that they want to see succeed. Who knows... maybe you got the job over someone in the department who wanted it too and there's some resentment. If that's the case you're going to have to work harder to overcome that notion. If this is the same place of employment in another department, it could also be the corporate culture thrown into the mix.
Otherwise, set up a meeting with your boss and ask for training. If she refuses, go to HR and ask what is supposed to happen training-wise. If you do nothing and sit on your butt all day everyday playing games, it's just pure laziness.
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Post by txdancermom on Aug 26, 2015 12:45:02 GMT
no I don't think you are wrong. your boss should be the one adding you to the invites, etc, and telling you and showing you (or asking someone else to do it) what you need to now to do your job.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 26, 2015 12:52:44 GMT
This is why you make nice with admins. They know everything. They control or have access to multiple calendars. They know what is going on in your department. A good one can make you or break you.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 26, 2015 12:56:10 GMT
I pretty much follow the CYA. I would email my boss aand ask for clarification on training. Who is responsible, when will it happen, etc. Are there email distributions lists you need to be added to all the sort of stuff they should be doing.
Then it is his/her responsibility from there.
To answer your general question.... as a trainer, I would say it is both of your responsibilities. Your boss doesn't know what you know and don't and you don't know what you need to know and don't. It should be a combined effort.
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Post by utmr on Aug 26, 2015 13:04:23 GMT
I changed jobs a couple times in the past few years and your experience is pretty typical, from what I've seen. Frankly if you have a working computer and system access after the first week, you're doing pretty well.
Unless it's something quick and concrete like "here's how to run the cash register" it's not going to happen. You just have to start bugging people. Make nice with the admin to get added to the meetings. Start harassing IT to get system access and passwords. Dig around in the files to see if there is any interesting material.
The boss isn't going to train you on anything, because they probably don't know how to do the nuts and bolts of your day to day job. Pester the coworkers. They're swamped but if you can pick their brain enough then eventually you get what you need and they can dump some work on you.
Good luck. Enjoy the downtime while you have it because you'll be swamped soon enough.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Aug 26, 2015 13:17:38 GMT
It's inexcusable behaviour but so typical from the corporate environment. It also drives me crazy that the corporate mentality is that the new person has to take the initiative. No, if you are bringing me into your department, get off your "very busy" ass and actually give me the tools and information I need. Unlike AN 's very thorough list, I just disagree that it should be on @yubon to be added to meeting requests or figuring out for herself what she's supposed to do. Sure, if you're a keener book a meeting and demand that they go through everything, however that's giving your boss and the rest of the department a pass on doing their job, part of which is bringing the new person up to speed. However, it's so typical in the corporate environment... especially one that is managed by people who shouldn't be managers. Good managers will actually engage with their employees and have everything set up and ready to go. It sounds like you have managers that just got the title because they either can't actually do anything or because higher ups were scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm with you, until you show me what to do and actually engage me with what needs to be done, I'll be over in the corner doing whatever the hell I want on your dime. Have a problem with that? Then actually train me. It's that simple. How is that working out for you? Sure, in a perfect world, companies and bosses would be perfectly prepared to train you. In the real world, people are busy, don't know how to do the roles they have hired for, and so on. If you just want to show up, get your paycheck, and do the least amount of work possible, your plan is fine. Nothing wrong with it, but doesn't seem like a fulfilling way to spend 35%+ of your waking hours every week. If you are interested in promotions, learning new skills, getting good recommendations, having something to bring when you interview for a new, better paying company... then it is in your own personal best interest long-term to take the initiative to learn. It really just depends what you want out of your job/career. As for how it is working out for me, I have increased my salary 5x in the 9 years I have been at my company. But I don't think I've been through a single training that someone else told me I needed to go through. How's it working out? Just fine, TYVM. I expect my manager to be a manager and actually manage his employees. That means setting them up for success by supplying all necessary tools, contacts, requests, and training to do the job he wants us to do. We had a shitty manager who couldn't or wouldn't train anyone who came into the department and simply expected them to figure it out. No surprise, he's a disaster and has been demoted and has one foot out the door. Our new manager? He actually does his job and gets all everyone the tools they need and the information and training they need to actually do the job they are hired to do. We have one of the most productive teams in the company, so obviously he's doing something right. It's one thing to say, "so have I missed anything?" when your manager is detailing what your job entails... it's a completely different thing to have to hound people to actually find out what is expected and get the tools you need to be successful.
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Post by katieanna on Aug 26, 2015 14:03:46 GMT
I have had jobs like that and I hated it. How are you supposed to know what to do if no one is willing to show you the ropes even once? Osmosis? I think I would keep barking up trees until someone started to respond, and if the person immediately supervising you won't do it continue up the food chain until someone forces the issue. The only thing worse than being bored at work is feeling lost because no one will tell you what you're supposed to be doing. Sorry you're going through this, OP. Within the past 12 years I've changed jobs twice and found that to be the case with both of them. I don't know if people simply don't have the time to train or if they think that new employees are mind readers. I hope you get the training you need. From the sounds of it, you'll have to push to get it - and even then it may fall on deaf ears.
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Deleted
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May 12, 2024 10:10:47 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 16:32:14 GMT
My personality and what I would do is much more like AN's. I personally think that advice will make you a RockStar rather than a bump on a log and will be remembered at raise/promotion time. Sitting back and waiting for someone else to tell you what to do or train you won't. At least not in the corporate environments that I worked for and with. People wonder why they don't get raises/promotions/etc and why younger more energetic employees do. I find the best employees that we have hired don't sit back and wait but actually engage as soon as possible. Those that use an excuse of "I wasn't trained" aren't our best and rarely move up because they have shown no initiative. I'd rather be asked questions and have an employee try and make mistakes than to not try at all.
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Post by Zee on Aug 26, 2015 16:46:56 GMT
Either start asking what it is they want you to do and when they're going to show you how to do it, or get a coloring book.
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Post by julieinsweden on Aug 27, 2015 15:04:30 GMT
How do you study a colleague's calendar if they haven't shared it with you which in the situation Yubon is in, very likely. We use outlook at work but I can't just access people's calendar because I want to. Sharing your calendar will allow other people to see what you have written in the subject field. But seeing when people are booked for something can be done without them sharing with you. Looking at your bosses meeting times Choose the folder tab. Click on open calendar, Choose your boss. Looking for common meeting times of many people In your calendar, click on New appointment. Then click on invite attendees. Add your colleagues to the “To field”. Then click on scheduling assistant. There you will see all the colleagues busy times, which should help you guess when they are all in some group meeting. Good luck
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Post by carolynhasacat on Aug 27, 2015 15:18:00 GMT
Put a meeting on the calendar for you and your boss. Call it "One-on-One" and say in the description that you want to meet to align expectations. In the meeting, say you'll set up a meeting like this (YOU own the meeting) for the two of you once per week until you're settled, then you'd like to move it to once per month if that works. Getting this weekly meeting off his/her calendar is good motivation to make you settled.
Then, ask one of your coworkers out to lunch. Keep it friendly, don't complain about being left out. They'll start remembering to add you to things.
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