AmeliaBloomer
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Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 6:52:58 GMT
I always marvel at the second (third? fourth?) language abilities of our Norwegian RefuPeas. I was just reading a post by miominmio, and I was struck again by her flawless English syntax and vocabulary, and how she effortlessly throws in figurative language. (This time, it was "take it to an unacceptable level.") I'm equally impressed with the other Norwegians who post here. Can you describe the culture of language instruction in Norway - when, where, and how your learn other languages? I have always been curious, so I figured I'd finally ask. Color me nosy. [See? THERE'S an idiom, and I don't even hesitate using it with you, as I would (hesitate) with others whose first language is not English.] Tusen takk! (It would be great to hear from others whose first language is not English, too.)
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 7:17:18 GMT
Oh, my English isn't perfect, but thank you anyway. kids here learn English from the age of 6 (year 1), in year 8 most also add another language (for DS16 it was German.) Unfortunately, their teacher was absolutely .....not up to the standard she should have been (So that meant I had to brush up on my German....hadn't used it in 25 years, but the good thing is that I now can watch youTube videos in German and understand most of it). This year (year 11) he switched from German to Spanish, but they continue with English until they finish school when they're 19. When they move on to college or university, at least some of the classes or books will be in English (depends on what they study, of course.) Also, and this might be even more important: movies and TV series aren't dubbed! (Only for very young children).
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 7:22:55 GMT
English and American literature is sold in most book stores, even in the store in my tiny town you will find books in English. And there's a large section in the library, too.
I think the fascination with the English language is partly because such a large number of Norwegians emigrated to the US. There are more Americans of Norwegian descent than there's Norwegians! So everyone has relatives there.
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 7:24:01 GMT
I am Norwegian and I have to admit I learned a lot of my English watching television. In Norway we never dubbed tv-shows that were in English. In a lot of European countries they will have voiceactors doing the dialogue in their native language (Italian, Spanish, German etc), so they are not really exposed to people speaking English. There are actually someone in Germany who is 'Julia Roberts' or 'Arnold Schwarzenegger', because they try to use the same voice for the same star in all of their movies. This might have changed, but that's how it was in a lot of European countries. I was born in 1979, and during the 80's we only had ONE television channel. And the whole country watched the same episode of Dynasty every Friday But with subtitles. I would listen to the English dialogue, and read the translation in the subtitles. Of course you will pick up some English from that! We had both American and British tv-shows, so we were exposed to both of those cultures. I started learning English in school in 4th grade. My children started in 1st grade. Because we are so close geographically to Great Britain, we learned the English-English, with words like 'colour' and 'neighbourhood'. To this day we are extremely exposed to the English language, using English/American words/slang in our everyday conversations. We watch American movies, travel to London on the weekends, listen to songs in English.... At most universities, many of the textbooks will be in the original English. Norwegian is too small of a language to make it worth it to translate and print books in. So we use a lot of the original books in their original language. We do of course, have Norwegian textbooks aswell, but those are mostly written BY Norwegians. Personally I have lived in Australia. Many Norwegian students live overseas to study, as the courses offered in our own universities can be limited or competative to get into. We also travel a lot. Generally, we are pretty wealthy and have the means to travel for pleasure. And living in Europe, you don't have to travel far to be in a completely different culture and climate. When I was in 8th grade, we had to choose a secondary foreign language aswell. My school only offered German, so I did four excrutiating years of German classes. I'm not particularly GOOD at it, but I can have a limited conversation in it. Never had much use for it though. I don't meet a lot of Germans/Austrians. When you come from a small country with only 5 million people in it, speaking a language not a lot of people worldwide speak... you HAVE to learn another language that will make you able to communicate with people from other countries.
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 7:23:54 GMT
Vær så god, forresten
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 7:47:58 GMT
There are more Americans of Norwegian descent than there's Norwegians! Wow. It's often said that my city (Chicago) has the most people of Polish descent in the world outside of Warsaw, but your claim "takes the cake." Thanks for the answers, which have triggered more questions: - You must have movies and TV series in Norwegian. Roughly, what percentage are in English? Are they subtitled in Norwegian? - Do you speak to your son (kids?) in English at all - outside of helping with homework? If so, did you wait to start 'til he was age six? - Do you think your English is the same or better than most people you know? Yikes, it sounds as if I'm interrogating interviewing you. I'll stop after this, I promise. I'm always intrigued by language acquisition, especially since I struggle with it myself.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 7:53:33 GMT
rainangel, I hadn't refreshed my screen, so I missed your reply before. Thank you for your post - and I got my answer to my television question from it. I assume you both lean toward British accents when you speak English? Even with proximity to the UK, would the prevalence of American media affect that at all?
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Post by rhhdk on Aug 28, 2015 7:58:02 GMT
Most of what have been mentioned above goes for Denmark (and Sweden too) I think
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 8:07:50 GMT
Most of what have been mentioned above goes for Denmark (and Sweden too) I think Tak (tack)! Wait. Takk, Tak, Tack???
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Post by gar on Aug 28, 2015 8:28:07 GMT
Great post AmeliaBloomer This is something I've often thought about although not just Norwegians I must admit. As far as I can see most other European countries and many others further afield too, do far far better than we do at teaching a second/third language. I have Swedish friends and even when visiting as a child we conversed entirely in English and I was sort of embarrassed that I didn't know anything beyond Tack. Hats off to you guys for your language achievements even if it's the norm for you
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 8:57:56 GMT
There are more Americans of Norwegian descent than there's Norwegians! Wow. It's often said that my city (Chicago) has the most people of Polish descent in the world outside of Warsaw, but your claim "takes the cake." Thanks for the answers, which have triggered more questions: - You must have movies and TV series in Norwegian. Roughly, what percentage are in English? Are they subtitled in Norwegian? - Do you speak to your son (kids?) in English at all - outside of helping with homework? If so, did you wait to start 'til he was age six? - Do you think your English is the same or better than most people you know? Yikes, it sounds as if I'm interrogating interviewing you. I'll stop after this, I promise. I'm always intrigued by language acquisition, especially since I struggle with it myself. As rainangel answered the first question, I'll skip to the next one: no, I don't speak English with my kids unless I'm helping them with homework. Except when DD9 was younger; if DS16 didn't want her to understand what he was saying, he would speak to me in English. (Younger siblings can be pests sometimes lol). my English is probably better than average, at least for my age group, mostly (I think) because at least 50% of the books I read are in English, and I read A LOT . And when I went to law school, I spent a year studying "anglo-american law" (I still have Black's "law dictionary" somewhere).
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 9:08:53 GMT
rainangel, I hadn't refreshed my screen, so I missed your reply before. Thank you for your post - and I got my answer to my television question from it. I assume you both lean toward British accents when you speak English? Even with proximity to the UK, would the prevalence of American media affect that at all? Hmmm, I think my accent (although the Scandinavian in me is evident ;-) ) leans more towards American these days. When I was a kid, that would seriously have affected my grades, though. I don't think the schools are as strict about it nowadays, at least not in my experience. (But there is no way I'll ever spell "colour" "color" )
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 9:12:15 GMT
Most of what have been mentioned above goes for Denmark (and Sweden too) I think Tak (tack)! Wait. Takk, Tak, Tack??? "Takk" in Norwegian and Danish (have I mentioned they forced us into a union for more than 4 centuries, and parts of the country for even longer? Yes, we still hold a grudge ) "Tack" is Swedish (we like them even less )
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Post by monklady123 on Aug 28, 2015 9:53:58 GMT
TV may be a big part of it (as several said) but it comes down to the education system also (as also was mentioned). We do such a bad job here in the United States compared to most European and Scandinavian countries. Although it is somewhat common these days (probably depends on where you live) for kids to start a foreign language in middle school it is entirely possible not to be exposed to one until high school! ugh. I think that's awful, because as we all know -- at least all of us who have tried to learn a foreign language as an adult -- the older you get the harder it is. In general... yes, there are always those people who just "get it". But most of us aren't like that.
When I first started teaching English in Burkina Faso in West Africa I had classrooms full of kids from poor villages with absolutely nothing in the way of school supplies or anything -- and English was at least their third language, maybe even fourth. ! They had their own language, and maybe another local language, and then French when they started primary school, then English when they hit 6th grade. The kids from French-speaking countries who stayed in school ended up being able read and write in two foreign languages.
Yeah, we could do a whole lot better in this area!
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Post by gillyp on Aug 28, 2015 10:14:27 GMT
Great post @amerliabloomer This is something I've often thought about although not just Norwegians I must admit. As far as I can see most other European countries and many others further afield too, do far far better than we do at teaching a second/third language. I have Swedish friends and even when visiting as a child we conversed entirely in English and I was sort of embarrassed that I didn't know anything beyond Tack. Hats off to you guys for your language achievements even if it's the norm for you I have Mexican and Italian cousins who speak and write better English than I do!
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Post by gar on Aug 28, 2015 10:15:33 GMT
Great post @amerliabloomer This is something I've often thought about although not just Norwegians I must admit. As far as I can see most other European countries and many others further afield too, do far far better than we do at teaching a second/third language. I have Swedish friends and even when visiting as a child we conversed entirely in English and I was sort of embarrassed that I didn't know anything beyond Tack. Hats off to you guys for your language achievements even if it's the norm for you I have Mexican and Italian cousins who speak and write better English than I do! Scary!!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 27, 2024 22:17:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:47:40 GMT
TV may be a big part of it (as several said) but it comes down to the education system also (as also was mentioned). We do such a bad job here in the United States compared to most European and Scandinavian countries. Although it is somewhat common these days (probably depends on where you live) for kids to start a foreign language in middle school it is entirely possible not to be exposed to one until high school! ugh. I think that's awful, because as we all know -- at least all of us who have tried to learn a foreign language as an adult -- the older you get the harder it is. In general... yes, there are always those people who just "get it". But most of us aren't like that. When I first started teaching English in Burkina Faso in West Africa I had classrooms full of kids from poor villages with absolutely nothing in the way of school supplies or anything -- and English was at least their third language, maybe even fourth. ! They had their own language, and maybe another local language, and then French when they started primary school, then English when they hit 6th grade. The kids from French-speaking countries who stayed in school ended up being able read and write in two foreign languages. Yeah, we could do a whole lot better in this area! I agree with you the younger a child is the quicker they learn another language. They don't have this preconceived idea that they can't pronounce "that" word because mentally they process is as foreign. A younger person thinks of it as just another word to learn. The children who have parents of different nationalities don't seem to have a problem in speaking to Mum in her language and to Dad in a different one and very often to their friends in another. They are certainly very often bi-lingual in the home. I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that English is an international language so from a career/work aspect the opportunities are greater,certainly for Europeans where the countries are in size, smaller than somewhere like the US. So the movement of labour could be greater. Maybe the" need" to learn a foreign language except for the possibility of travel isn't there so much in the US because of the size of the country and the use of the only one language.
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Deleted
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Sept 27, 2024 22:17:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:52:11 GMT
I'm not Norwegian but I have Norwegian friends back in Ireland, their English is beautiful and I love their accents.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 28, 2015 11:07:04 GMT
Here's my take on this. English is pretty much a universal language due to business and the reach of our entertainment (TV, movies, music). Fluency in a language is predicated on use. I started Spanish in grade school. However, when I moved out of my predominantly Hispanic city in 5th grade Spanish was no longer offered. I took 3 years of French in high school but no way to immerse myself and become fluent. I learned Arabic in the military and it was immersion training. By the time I finished school I dreamt and took notes in Arabic. That was 25 years ago and I don't use it and have lost it.
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keithurbanlovinpea
Pearl Clutcher
Flowing with the go...
Posts: 4,301
Jun 29, 2014 3:29:30 GMT
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Post by keithurbanlovinpea on Aug 28, 2015 11:40:53 GMT
I get the TV thing for sure. My stepmother came to the US from Vietnam and although she knew some English, she purposely watched TV to learn more. To this day she reads the crossword puzzle answers after my father finishes so she can continue to learn slang and idioms. I will say that I think a big part of learning English in other countries is language immersion. My stepmother not only learned Vietnamese, but had to learn French as well. I think when you learn more than just your native language, and learn it well, it helps bridge the understanding to other languages too.
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Julie W
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Jun 27, 2014 22:11:06 GMT
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Post by Julie W on Aug 28, 2015 11:50:02 GMT
Most of what have been mentioned above goes for Denmark (and Sweden too) I think In June we took a Northern European cruise out of Copenhagen with stops including Stockholm and Helsinki. Even the narration of the hop on/hop off buses in Sweden noted how early they taught their children English in early elementary school and often a third language in high school. We absolutely found this to be true in Copenhagen, a truly delightful city full of warm people - who would hear our confusion in English and jump in and help us with directions. The guide books told us not to expect as much English in Helsinki, but we found encountered many, many people there who spoke it very well. Love that the European countries focus on teaching their children so many languages!
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AmeliaBloomer
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Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 12:39:43 GMT
This is something I've often thought about although not just Norwegians I must admit. As far as I can see most other European countries and many others further afield too, do far far better than we do at teaching a second/third language. Oh, yes, I know that people from many European countries have unbelievable facility with second (and successive) languages. It's amazing; I've experienced it both traveling and knowing people living here from those countries. But there are often "tells" - even small ones - in someone's English, e.g. I know several Poles living here who struggle with a/an/th, even with otherwise excellent syntax (because of how differently Polish articles are used). Just on this board, though, I'm always astonished to learn somebody is Norwegian, just because there are NO language tells. I'm wondering if Scandinavian countries are particularly good at language instruction. Somebody mentioned wealth; that could certainly have an effect (family buy-in, literacy, education quality, travel opportunities, etc.). I have Mexican and Italian cousins who speak and write better English than I do! And that's a whole other topic! On this forum, I bet there are plenty of English language learners who scratch their heads reading the myriad mistakes among us native Emglish speakers. Then there's the British English v. American English vocab confusion that we see play out here every day. Look how often one group asks the other about a word or term. I don't see the NORWEGIANS being confused. LOL. They seem to know both versions just fine, while we struggle with each other! (I'm off to work. Thanks for the great discussion. Tak, tack, tacc, takk...taco?)
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Post by STBC on Aug 28, 2015 12:42:29 GMT
English and American literature is sold in most book stores, even in the store in my tiny town you will find books in English. And there's a large section in the library, too. I think the fascination with the English language is partly because such a large number of Norwegians emigrated to the US. There are more Americans of Norwegian descent than there's Norwegians! So everyone has relatives there. I'm one of them I'm finding this thread fascinating!
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Post by gar on Aug 28, 2015 12:44:05 GMT
AmeliaBloomer - you're right, I completely forget that English isn't the first language of our Norwegian friends here
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Aug 28, 2015 12:44:52 GMT
Great post AmeliaBloomer This is something I've often thought about although not just Norwegians I must admit. As far as I can see most other European countries and many others further afield too, do far far better than we do at teaching a second/third language. I have Swedish friends and even when visiting as a child we conversed entirely in English and I was sort of embarrassed that I didn't know anything beyond Tack. Hats off to you guys for your language achievements even if it's the norm for you In my experience (having lived in both Sweden and Germany and traveling quite a bit) the Dutch people I've encountered have had near perfect English as well. I have an online friend now from the Netherlands who puts my English to shame . My SIL just moved from Texas to Sweden and is the head of the English department at a private high school there. I'm so jealous.
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Post by maryland on Aug 28, 2015 12:47:46 GMT
I met a woman from PTO who was from Sweden. She hardly has an accent, and I can only detect it because she told me she was Swedish. Before she told me I had no idea! She was kind of disappointed (jokingly) because she felt like she wanted people to know she was Swedish.
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Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Aug 28, 2015 14:05:36 GMT
Any American, regardless of heritage, who is interested in Scandinavian lifestyles should join the Sons of Norway. Check it out!
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 14:17:51 GMT
There is a realityshow that has its season premiere on Sunday. I am so excited about it, because it is just an adorable realityshow.
The show is 12 Norwegian-Americans coming to Norway and learning about all things Norwegian. Especially the episodes where they eat certain Norwegian foods are hilarious! They get to travel to the homestead where their great grandparents lived before they emigrated to America, and it becomes very emotional for them.
I highly recommend it if you are a Norwegian-American, you learn a lot of fun stuff about Norway, thw contestants are very supportive of each other and most of it is in English so you would understand most of it. It's called 'Alt for Norge' (All/everything for Norway), and you can find some episodes on youtube, or maybe on the channels homepage TVN.no
I have become used to both British English and American English through books, movies and music. But I lived in Australia for a few years, so I know quite a bit of Aussie slang aswell. And I am quite proud of the fact that I can recognize where people are from based on their English accent; US, England, Scotland, Ireland, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. I can rcognize a few American accents, or at least what part of the US. The Southern slang is easy to identify for instance, so is New York/New Jersey and Boston.
I love language. I should have become a linguist!
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Post by saralovesducks on Aug 28, 2015 14:38:03 GMT
Here in Spain we dub everything boooo I can't bear to watch dubbed TV though, so I get my fix online. We're finally getting Netflix, I'm so excited. People from nordic countries I've met had the most perfect accents and grammar. It was delightful to chat with them. I really envy their great pronunciation! Last time I was in London this girl thought I was french. I got that in Germany, too. I also get "I know you are european but...where from?!?" And funny story: I was in London with my sister (we speak english with each other, she has a pretty British accent since she lived in Exeter) and I bumped into this woman by accident. I apologized, but then I heard her murmur something about "annoying americans"!! What the what?!? Must be all that HBO I've been watching
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Post by ntsf on Aug 28, 2015 14:43:42 GMT
I was always amazed by my cousins in Wales. Their first and preferred language is Welsh--the mom was Greek, and she learned Welsh, and the kids learned english in school. when I saw my cousins at ages 7 and 9--the 7 yr old hardly spoke any english at all! I'm sure they added a 3rd language as they grew older in school. you don't think a UK country would have english as a second language. They live in northern Wales..which is very strong on the Welsh culture and language.
one friend lived here in the US for 5 yrs. her oldest started school speaking only swedish..(and the school was 85% ethnically chinese) and she learned American English. then at 10, they went back to sweden..and though the girl was fluent in english, she got in trouble cause it was American english..and not british english.
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