|
|
Post by gar on Sept 18, 2015 19:42:06 GMT
I think I've come to realize that non-believers don't matter. Only the people who believe in this specific kind of god matter... everyone else is just collateral damage to make sure that the believers are okay. Just because we trust God to provide for us and protect us does not mean that we will not ever experience tragedies and hard times just like everyone else. But we trust Him to be there with us through the ordeals. He helps us in countless ways emotionally and spiritually if He does not heal us physically. No matter what happens to the believer on this earth (and yes some of us do and will experience some of the hardships you mentioned), we belong to Him and nothing and no one can take that from us. When this life is done, we're with Him and then we will ALL be able to say, no matter what we experienced on this earth, that it had been worth it all. you'll be with him etc etc.... maybe, because actually you're just hoping, believing, trusting that's so, without any knowledge or proof.....just hoping. |
|
|
|
Post by boxermom73 on Sept 18, 2015 19:47:12 GMT
Why would anyone care ? If they want to thank god that's them. If you want to thank yourself and no one else that's you.... why do you need to belittle others to make yourself feel better about your choice? SMH
|
|
|
|
Post by boxermom73 on Sept 18, 2015 19:49:31 GMT
I don't think thanking god or anyone else diminishes our own hard work for the success in our lives. Perhaps prayer helped the person focus more, or perhaps prayer gave someone the energy to keep going when they felt like giving up. Personally, I don't understand why it matters to one person how another views the reasons for success in his own life. It looks to me like it's simply yet another bash against those who keep god close to them in their lives. I agree ... You said it better than me. |
|
|
|
Post by gar on Sept 18, 2015 20:01:12 GMT
Why would anyone care ? If they want to thank god that's them. If you want to thank yourself and no one else that's you.... why do you need to belittle others to make yourself feel better about your choice? SMH Where are you seeing belittling? |
|
|
|
Post by tarheelgurl on Sept 18, 2015 20:04:32 GMT
But what about the millions of people - including faithful believers - whose lives do not work out for their good and are not provided for or protected by anyone, much less god? I think I've come to realize that non-believers don't matter. Only the people who believe in this specific kind of god matter... everyone else is just collateral damage to make sure that the believers are okay. God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. |
|
|
|
Post by gar on Sept 18, 2015 20:07:04 GMT
I think I've come to realize that non-believers don't matter. Only the people who believe in this specific kind of god matter... everyone else is just collateral damage to make sure that the believers are okay. God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? |
|
J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
|
Post by J u l e e on Sept 18, 2015 20:58:00 GMT
I am a Christian, and I don't understand much of God. I really don't. I don't have the answers to any of the questions non-believers have posted on this thread. I have many of the same questions myself. I think about questions like you guys have posted here ALL the time. None of your doubts seem odd to me at all. However, I just really dig Jesus. I like what he said. I like how he spoke of his kingdom. I like how he wants us to treat each other. It's how I want to live out my life here on earth. I have no desire to argue about heaven and divinity and omniscience and suffering and countless other things we beat each other over the head with. I hope to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly. I want a world like the one Jesus preached about - on earth as it is in heaven - and that's why I'm a Christian. I'm not in charge of judging people for their beliefs or defending God. And I have just as many questions about God as most non-believers. This thread being a great example and conversation about them. I was awake a lot last night and kept thinking of your eloquent response here. It's beautiful  Thank you! I was afraid it only made sense in my head and putting it out there felt a bit weird. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:11:30 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 22:05:01 GMT
God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? Gar, just wondering why you feel this way? I'm completely atheist (but recognize academically the only real viewpoint is agnosticism) but I don't find statements like that God loves everyone to be insulting or patronizing. |
|
|
|
Post by tarheelgurl on Sept 18, 2015 22:17:57 GMT
God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? Saying that God loves everyone is patronizing and insulting?? I'm shocked. Please explain yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by katieanna on Sept 18, 2015 22:57:33 GMT
Just because we trust God to provide for us and protect us does not mean that we will not ever experience tragedies and hard times just like everyone else. But we trust Him to be there with us through the ordeals. He helps us in countless ways emotionally and spiritually if He does not heal us physically. No matter what happens to the believer on this earth (and yes some of us do and will experience some of the hardships you mentioned), we belong to Him and nothing and no one can take that from us. When this life is done, we're with Him and then we will ALL be able to say, no matter what we experienced on this earth, that it had been worth it all. you'll be with him etc etc.... maybe, because actually you're just hoping, believing, trusting that's so, without any knowledge or proof.....just hoping. Before I knew Christ as my personal Saviour, I only had hope. Now it's a certainty. Physical knowledge and proof (other than His creation that surrounds me) I have not. Knowledge and proof of God is spiritually discerned. |
|
|
|
Post by tarheelgurl on Sept 18, 2015 23:54:11 GMT
Maybe you'll be with him etc etc.... maybe, because actually you're just hoping, believing, trusting that's so, without any knowledge or proof.....just hoping. Before I knew Christ as my personal Saviour, I only had hope. Now it's a certainty. Physical knowledge and proof (other than His creation that surrounds me) I have not. Knowledge and proof of God is spiritually discerned.  |
|
|
|
Post by jenjie on Sept 19, 2015 0:54:17 GMT
Just because we trust God to provide for us and protect us does not mean that we will not ever experience tragedies and hard times just like everyone else. But we trust Him to be there with us through the ordeals. He helps us in countless ways emotionally and spiritually if He does not heal us physically. No matter what happens to the believer on this earth (and yes some of us do and will experience some of the hardships you mentioned), we belong to Him and nothing and no one can take that from us. When this life is done, we're with Him and then we will ALL be able to say, no matter what we experienced on this earth, that it had been worth it all. I just don't have it in me to enter the fray. And I haven't read everything. but this response is probably the one that most resonates with me right now. In the middle of my pain. And I want to say a heartfelt thank you to the non believing peas for responding on every single one of my threads about my husband and all my words of faith with such kindness and not a trace of mockery. My heart hurts and I am rereading those posts today and receiving comfort from everyone's words. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:11:30 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2015 20:38:09 GMT
I'm so sorry you are hurting but glad that you are comforted by the words you've received here. Look after yourself  |
|
|
|
Post by nightnurse on Sept 19, 2015 22:16:03 GMT
THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? Saying that God loves everyone is patronizing and insulting?? I'm shocked. Please explain yourself. I'll explain: if I told you that Allah loves you even though you don't worship him, that Buddha is holding you safe in his arms, that Zeus is planning good things for you, that the Goddess has a plan for you, would you be comforted? Would you feel loved and accepted? And you didn't just say God loves everyone, you said God loves everyone even if you don't believe. It feels as if you you are saying that these silly atheists just can't see the bounty of god's love but God is so great He extends it even to these undeserving atheists. Sure, you probably had no nefarious purpose and I don't generally get upset about these things. If someone wants to pray for me, great, thanks for the well wishes. You can say "Merry Christmas." I'll come to your church wedding or baptism or whatever. But you asked why it sounds patronizing so I explained. It's like telling someone they will understand when they are married, or once they have kids, or when they are older, as if you have some secret enlightenment to understand that God is real and how He feels. |
|
|
|
Post by Zee on Sept 19, 2015 22:32:52 GMT
God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? If you're truly an atheist, you really don't care about it one way or the other. I have to be honest...as an agnostic, I've run across more patronizing atheists than theists. |
|
|
|
Post by gar on Sept 19, 2015 22:38:40 GMT
THAT is so ....patronising, insulting......ugh. Do you realise how that comes across??? If you're truly an atheist, you really don't care about it one way or the other. I have to be honest...as an agnostic, I've run across more patronizing atheists than theists. You're right - I actually don't care that much at all.....but I was PUI last night and obviously felt more aggrieved than I do now  |
|
|
|
Post by moveablefeast on Sept 19, 2015 23:07:23 GMT
Saying that God loves everyone is patronizing and insulting?? I'm shocked. Please explain yourself. I'll explain: if I told you that Allah loves you even though you don't worship him, that Buddha is holding you safe in his arms, that Zeus is planning good things for you, that the Goddess has a plan for you, would you be comforted? Would you feel loved and accepted? And you didn't just say God loves everyone, you said God loves everyone even if you don't believe. It feels as if you you are saying that these silly atheists just can't see the bounty of god's love but God is so great He extends it even to these undeserving atheists. Sure, you probably had no nefarious purpose and I don't generally get upset about these things. If someone wants to pray for me, great, thanks for the well wishes. You can say "Merry Christmas." I'll come to your church wedding or baptism or whatever. But you asked why it sounds patronizing so I explained. It's like telling someone they will understand when they are married, or once they have kids, or when they are older, as if you have some secret enlightenment to understand that God is real and how He feels. I'll just be honest and speak for me... and acknowledging that I don't necessarily speak for all Christians when I say this... I actually WOULD feel loved and accepted and affirmed and comforted. Why? Because even though I am a follower of Jesus, and I am not a follower of Wicca or Buddhism or anything else, I am warmed and heartened and gladdened by any expression of love, goodness, hope, comfort, or beauty. Assuming that that is in fact what a person is trying to say to me. When the cashier at the mall says "Happy holidays" I say "Thank you, to you as well." When someone says "Merry Christmas" I say "Thank you, to you as well." If someone wants to wish me a blessed Yule I will say "Thank you, to you as well." I think of Jesus as this incredibly deep source of love, goodness, hope, comfort, and beauty. I receive any expression of those things as blessing. I may not believe that Buddha holds me safely in his arms, but I do believe that there is One who does and I will receive any promise of that goodness with the generosity with which it was surely intended. I think one difference is that I do believe that there is such a spiritual wellspring. I did not always and I recall so well being incredibly annoyed by any implication that there was any personal force of good or of evil out there taking any interest in any of us whatsoever. It is easier to acknowledge that source by another name if you already accept that it exists by one name. It does not bother me that another person might call that source by a different name. I am not a relativist, but I am also not inclined to reject an expression of goodwill just because it does not fully suit my worldview. But I am speaking only for myself. |
|
|
|
Post by jenjie on Sept 20, 2015 0:15:58 GMT
I'm so sorry you are hurting but glad that you are comforted by the words you've received here. Look after yourself Thank you Lainey <3 |
|
aleks
Shy Member
Posts: 16 
|
Post by aleks on Sept 23, 2015 4:03:36 GMT
So, what's the point of life if there's a heaven...why not just bypass the insignificant 80-85 years of life which is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a blink in eternity and go straight to this magical place no one has seen? It makes no sense.
If even the "vilest sinners" are forgiven because they're Christians then any kind of after life wouldn't be for me anyhow. I can't stand pedophiles, rapist, murderers in life why would I want to mingle with them for eternity at a wine party with crappy crackers?
|
|
aleks
Shy Member
Posts: 16
|
Post by aleks on Sept 23, 2015 4:06:09 GMT
I think I've come to realize that non-believers don't matter. Only the people who believe in this specific kind of god matter... everyone else is just collateral damage to make sure that the believers are okay. God loves everyone whether you are a believer or non-believer. Right, except if we don't accept Jesus into our hearts we go to hell. Tough love from pops, eh? |
|
raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
|
Post by raindancer on Sept 23, 2015 4:56:51 GMT
I'll explain: if I told you that Allah loves you even though you don't worship him, that Buddha is holding you safe in his arms, that Zeus is planning good things for you, that the Goddess has a plan for you, would you be comforted? Would you feel loved and accepted? And you didn't just say God loves everyone, you said God loves everyone even if you don't believe. It feels as if you you are saying that these silly atheists just can't see the bounty of god's love but God is so great He extends it even to these undeserving atheists. Sure, you probably had no nefarious purpose and I don't generally get upset about these things. If someone wants to pray for me, great, thanks for the well wishes. You can say "Merry Christmas." I'll come to your church wedding or baptism or whatever. But you asked why it sounds patronizing so I explained. It's like telling someone they will understand when they are married, or once they have kids, or when they are older, as if you have some secret enlightenment to understand that God is real and how He feels. I'll just be honest and speak for me... and acknowledging that I don't necessarily speak for all Christians when I say this... I actually WOULD feel loved and accepted and affirmed and comforted. Why? Because even though I am a follower of Jesus, and I am not a follower of Wicca or Buddhism or anything else, I am warmed and heartened and gladdened by any expression of love, goodness, hope, comfort, or beauty. Assuming that that is in fact what a person is trying to say to me. When the cashier at the mall says "Happy holidays" I say "Thank you, to you as well." When someone says "Merry Christmas" I say "Thank you, to you as well." If someone wants to wish me a blessed Yule I will say "Thank you, to you as well." I think of Jesus as this incredibly deep source of love, goodness, hope, comfort, and beauty. I receive any expression of those things as blessing. I may not believe that Buddha holds me safely in his arms, but I do believe that there is One who does and I will receive any promise of that goodness with the generosity with which it was surely intended. I think one difference is that I do believe that there is such a spiritual wellspring. I did not always and I recall so well being incredibly annoyed by any implication that there was any personal force of good or of evil out there taking any interest in any of us whatsoever. It is easier to acknowledge that source by another name if you already accept that it exists by one name. It does not bother me that another person might call that source by a different name. I am not a relativist, but I am also not inclined to reject an expression of goodwill just because it does not fully suit my worldview. But I am speaking only for myself. Would you feel that way if your beliefs were not considered valid in a court of law? At the level of congress? If the state laws were such that they were heavily influenced by hose who follow the Quran? What if they told you it was ok that you don't share those beliefs. That Allah has enough love for you too and even though you don't believe the right way, they have only your best interest atbheart. They are ignoring your beliefs for the moral sustainability of our society. To help us where we cannot help ourselves. Would you then feel like it was nothing more than a gesture of kindness? It's simple for you to say you don't mind if someone wishes you some happy day you don't celebrate because you don't have a day off from work for that or have to hide who you are when someone randomly declares "let's pray". You are safe and secure Ina society that is 76% the same. It's a good bet if you say merry Christmas the person you say it too celebrates it in the same way as you for the exact same reason. It's nothing to say you would happily accept it because it's not an actual thing you have to do every day. |
|
|
|
Post by nurseypants on Sept 23, 2015 5:17:38 GMT
So, what's the point of life if there's a heaven...why not just bypass the insignificant 80-85 years of life which is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a blink in eternity and go straight to this magical place no one has seen? It makes no sense. If even the "vilest sinners" are forgiven because they're Christians then any kind of after life wouldn't be for me anyhow. I can't stand pedophiles, rapist, murderers in life why would I want to mingle with them for eternity at a wine party with crappy crackers? To be fair, I don't see how you can judge the quality of the crackers beforehand. They might be triscuits or Ritz crackers. |
|
aleks
Shy Member
Posts: 16
|
Post by aleks on Sept 23, 2015 12:30:23 GMT
So, what's the point of life if there's a heaven...why not just bypass the insignificant 80-85 years of life which is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a blink in eternity and go straight to this magical place no one has seen? It makes no sense. If even the "vilest sinners" are forgiven because they're Christians then any kind of after life wouldn't be for me anyhow. I can't stand pedophiles, rapist, murderers in life why would I want to mingle with them for eternity at a wine party with crappy crackers? To be fair, I don't see how you can judge the quality of the crackers beforehand. They might be triscuits or Ritz crackers. Nah, I've tried them. They're just wafers. |
|
|
|
Post by katieanna on Sept 23, 2015 13:32:12 GMT
In that case, I'd be thankful that they were speaking out of love for what they believe rather than holding a butcher knife to my throat ready to chop my head off like they do in some of the mid-Eastern countries that hold to extremist Islamic laws. Rather, I would just be thankful for their good intentions and let it go at that...or I would gladly share my beliefs if I felt they were interested in hearing it. If not, then again I would thank them and just walk away because what else can you do? You're not going to change their minds and they're not going to change yours. If they're not causing you any harm (other than being offended), then I don't understand the problem. If their faith is that important to them then to them, yes, it probably is a gesture of kindness. But if it offends you that much, then I would suggest that you kindly tell them so and move on. So you live in a society where 76% of the people pray. Are you saying that the 76% of the people should change their way of life to suit yours? When you live in a society with as many and as diverse of people as we have, you should expect that there will be people who believe differently than you do and who hold to different customs, etc. To me, it seems that ALL customs and beliefs are accepted as long as they are not Bible-believers who openly express their beliefs.
|
|
raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
|
Post by raindancer on Sept 23, 2015 13:36:39 GMT
In that case, I'd be thankful that they were speaking out of love for what they believe rather than holding a butcher knife to my throat ready to chop my head off like they do in some of the mid-Eastern countries that hold to extremist Islamic laws. Rather, I would just be thankful for their good intentions and let it go at that...or I would gladly share my beliefs if I felt they were interested in hearing it. If not, then again I would thank them and just walk away because what else can you do? You're not going to change their minds and they're not going to change yours. If they're not causing you any harm (other than being offended), then I don't understand the problem. If their faith is that important to them then to them, yes, it probably is a gesture of kindness. But if it offends you that much, then I would suggest that you kindly tell them so and move on. So you live in a society where 76% of the people pray. Are you saying that the 76% of the people should change their way of life to suit yours? When you live in a society with as many and as diverse of people as we have, you should expect that there will be people who believe differently than you do and who hold to different customs, etc. To me, it seems that ALL customs and beliefs are accepted as long as they are not Bible-believers who openly express their beliefs. I feel like you are talking around me. Let me address your "If it offends you that much" comment. Should the people who are gay just tell Kim Davis kindly that her impacting their civil rights because of her religion is offensive and then just move along? If your rights were being trampled in some way because someone else was imposing their beliefs on you, would you think "Well it must be out of love, you offend me, but since you are being so darn nice about it, I'm just going to go along my way now". And all customs and beliefs are not accepted in this country. Your bullshit persecution complex is nothing but absurd in the US. You are NOT PERSECUTED HERE. It's not a hard concept. |
|
|
|
Post by katieanna on Sept 23, 2015 13:54:34 GMT
In that case, yes they should have for the main reason that the law of the land was on their side. Personally, I think it took a lot of guts for her to do what she did although I have mixed feelings about what she did and why she did it. That would depend upon which rights they were stepping on. Notice the "rights" you mentioned above...that's what I was commenting on. Yes, well, we're human after all, aren't we? I never said I was being persecuted. But it's not difficult to see - especially on this board - how bible-believing Christian beliefs receive more negative, insulting, disrespectful, hateful and expletive-filled remarks than other belief or world view. I've been on 2Peas long enough to see that for myself.
|
|
grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
|
Post by grinningcat on Sept 23, 2015 14:16:49 GMT
In that case, yes they should have for the main reason that the law of the land was on their side. Personally, I think it took a lot of guts for her to do what she did although I have mixed feelings about what she did and why she did it. That would depend upon which rights they were stepping on. Notice the "rights" you mentioned above...that's what I was commenting on. Yes, well, we're human after all, aren't we? I never said I was being persecuted. But it's not difficult to see - especially on this board - how bible-believing Christian beliefs receive more negative, insulting, disrespectful, hateful and expletive-filled remarks than other belief or world view. I've been on 2Peas long enough to see that for myself. It took a lot of guts to do what she did? To break the law and suppress the rights of others? There is nothing good about what she did. What she did, what's she's doing is WRONG. If she wants to hold public office she has to obey the law of the land, her god and her religion is not relevant any of this. She's an idiot period. If the staunchly Catholic Prime Minister of Canada could say 10 years ago that "personally, I don't agree with gay marriage, but making it legal is the right thing to do for the country" and doesn't impose his personal beliefs on everyone, then this low level bureaucrat can do the same. She can suck it up and work by the law or find another job where she can spout her bigotry freely. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:11:31 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2015 14:58:51 GMT
In that case, yes they should have for the main reason that the law of the land was on their side. Personally, I think it took a lot of guts for her to do what she did although I have mixed feelings about what she did and why she did it. That would depend upon which rights they were stepping on. Notice the "rights" you mentioned above...that's what I was commenting on. Yes, well, we're human after all, aren't we? I never said I was being persecuted. But it's not difficult to see - especially on this board - how bible-believing Christian beliefs receive more negative, insulting, disrespectful, hateful and expletive-filled remarks than other belief or world view. I've been on 2Peas long enough to see that for myself. Your last statement does sound like you do feel persecuted. I personally think there is a shift away from religion or at least Christianity. I don't have any stats, it's just a vibe  . And I think as a consequence people can become frustrated especially when engaging in debate that always ends with the same line - because God said so. After participating in this thread earlier, I ended up visiting some debates on YouTube. It made me realize that I think many Christians on this thread aren't equipped for a debate on religion and I guess quite rightly so. You've decided you believe - end of story. My decision to believe or not was over many years of searching. Once I used to think atheists were so closed minded. I thought, can't they even just accept that there MIGHT be a God? Now I see how brainwashed I was. I struggled with a lot of things in Christianity and now I understand why - I didn't believe one word of it but couldn't work out how to stand up to what felt was the majority of thought, and say none of this makes sense. I am personally open to there being a 'God-like' creator because I don't know enough about creating a world to say there isn't one who made this one. However religion and Christianity to me is just constructed horseshit by humans. Hopefully John Lennon was prophetic when he sang in the song Imagine that there would be no religions....wonder if I can pray for that |
|
raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
|
Post by raindancer on Sept 23, 2015 15:25:27 GMT
In that case, yes they should have for the main reason that the law of the land was on their side. Personally, I think it took a lot of guts for her to do what she did although I have mixed feelings about what she did and why she did it. That would depend upon which rights they were stepping on. Notice the "rights" you mentioned above...that's what I was commenting on. Yes, well, we're human after all, aren't we? I never said I was being persecuted. But it's not difficult to see - especially on this board - how bible-believing Christian beliefs receive more negative, insulting, disrespectful, hateful and expletive-filled remarks than other belief or world view. I've been on 2Peas long enough to see that for myself. Is English your first language? |
|
. And I think as a consequence people can become frustrated especially when engaging in debate that always ends with the same line - because God said so.