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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:10:18 GMT
I'm one of the only employees who isn't family. I've been at my job 24 years, and like my job and the family I work for. That's not the issue but just the history.
We're in Ca. and I have no knowledge of HR laws. They pay a few holidays, but ONLY if they fall on your normal work day. So the only one who ever gets paid for Easter is the girl who only works Sat and Sun.
Here's what happened on July 4th. My day off is Friday, my co-worker's day off is Wednesday. We both work 4 days, she got a paid day off for July 4th, I didn't. We both work the same number of hours, are equal in our positions. But one of us got a paid holiday, one didn't.
I work a 4 day week (used to be 5 but "everyone"'s hours were cut 2 years ago for economic reasons so 52 unpaid days per year), but that's not the issue. It is becoming it's own issue because we were told it was temporary but 1 out of 5 days is a full 20 percent of my income - gone. I'm just realizing it's really not temporary.
My question is - is it true that they aren't required to even pay any holidays? It's their choice to make their own holiday policy and pay who/when they want to?
My second question is - Does the small business you work for or own pay holidays? If so - for everyone regardless of what day of the week they fall?
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Post by transprntbutterfly on Jul 19, 2014 15:17:44 GMT
I have worked for small companies and always gotten paid for the holiday if it fell on a regularly scheduled work day. I also worked for an employer who cut hous "temporarily" and totally understand how you feel. Can you chane your hours so you are working the same amount of hours, just over 5 days? That is what I did and it worked well.
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,746
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 19, 2014 15:21:20 GMT
That's weird to have it different for everyone. We owned a small business but it was kind of a different set up where people were just paid on the work they did (not hourly or salary - kind of sub contractors in a way) and they didn't work on holidays so there wasn't holiday pay. No matter how they handle holidays - paid or not - it should be consistent for all.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:22:54 GMT
I have worked for small companies and always gotten paid for the holiday if it fell on a regularly scheduled work day. I also worked for an employer who cut hous "temporarily" and totally understand how you feel. Can you chane your hours so you are working the same amount of hours, just over 5 days? That is what I did and it worked well. Well, if I am only going to work 32 hours, I guess I'd rather just work th 4 days. I would really like the 3 day weekends if it weren't for my short paycheck every week.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:25:27 GMT
That's weird to have it different for everyone. We owned a small business but it was kind of a different set up where people were just paid on the work they did (not hourly or salary - kind of sub contractors in a way) and they didn't work on holidays so there wasn't holiday pay. No matter how they handle holidays - paid or not - it should be consistent for all. That's what I think. It never bothered me not to get Easter off because really none but the one Sunday employee did, but since I was the ONLY employee that didn't get the 4th, it was weird. Just wondering if it's legal..
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 9, 2024 10:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 15:26:06 GMT
We own a small business. We pay for holidays that fall on regularly scheduled work days, so we pay 4th of July, Christmas if it's on a weekday, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, etc but have never paid Easter because we're closed on Sundays.
I do think the way your boss handled it was bad for employee relations, but not necessarily wrong. While I wouldn't do it, I can understand why he did. The day off cut into her budgeted amount of work hours, but not into yours. I imagine he did the same thing in reverse last year when Christmas was on a Wednesday?
However, I would be furious as an employer to learn that you were discussing your pay with another employee. In our company, that's grounds for dismissal.
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Post by Megan on Jul 19, 2014 15:26:46 GMT
It sounds like you're more of a part time employee as far as hours go? Then I can understand not getting all the paid holidays. Would they let you take Sunday holidays as floating holidays? Everyone's work policies are different. I wish I could help more!
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:40:38 GMT
However, I would be furious as an employer to learn that you were discussing your pay with another employee. In our company, that's grounds for dismissal. I guess I wasn't clear about how I got the information. I share an office with the family member who does payroll and she asked me if I thought we should pay "Sam" who was a day-laborer who was hired on a temporary basis. He has been working 5 days, so she was undecided on if he should be paid for Friday. I would never have known that they were paying some and not me unless she had asked me what I thought about the temporary worker's status. I asked her if we were getting the 4th paid and she told me the employees who normally work that day are.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 9, 2024 10:17:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 15:43:04 GMT
Ah got it. Then I think it was especially stinky of them to ASK you about if other people should be paid, but not pay you. Not illegal, but not nice.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:43:47 GMT
It sounds like you're more of a part time employee as far as hours go? Then I can understand not getting all the paid holidays. It was the fact that my day off was Friday, that I didn't get paid. We're all "part-time" now that we've been put on 4 day work weeks. The other 4-day employees got it because they normally work Friday. But one of the questions was IS there a set law/rule about who should get paid and who shouldn't and it's becoming clear that it's ok for each employer to make their own policy. That's fine. I don't plan on bringing this up w/them, as I like my job and was just curious if this is legal.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:43:57 GMT
It sounds like you're more of a part time employee as far as hours go? Then I can understand not getting all the paid holidays. It was the fact that my day off was Friday, that I didn't get paid. We're all "part-time" now that we've been put on 4 day work weeks. The other 4-day employees got it because they normally work Friday. But one of the questions was IS there a set law/rule about who should get paid and who shouldn't and it's becoming clear that it's ok for each employer to make their own policy. That's fine. I don't plan on bringing this up w/them, as I like my job and was just curious if this is legal.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 15:45:10 GMT
Ah got it. Then I think it was especially stinky of them to ASK you about if other people should be paid, but not pay you. Not illegal, but not nice. YES. exactly. The term in my mind was pretty much chicken-shit but it's pretty minor in the big picture. I do like them and I do like/appreciate my job.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jul 19, 2014 15:59:26 GMT
Sounds very odd. We have very strict rules about this sort of thing in the UK? Can you revisit your contract and see what is spelled out? I can't see how they can legitimately treat family differently to other employees.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 19, 2014 16:16:22 GMT
In oregon what you described is completely legal, and what our small non profit used to do. Now they have a more convulsed way to do it, but everyone gets paid for the holiday if it falls on a workday. The stinky thing for us though, is that the years the 4th or other national holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday our building is closed the Friday or Monday before or after the holiday so we cannot work, but since the holiday is on the weekend, we do not get paid. That irritates me to no end.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 16:22:05 GMT
In oregon what you described is completely legal, and what our small non profit used to do. Now they have a more convulsed way to do it, but everyone gets paid for the holiday if it falls on a workday. The stinky thing for us though, is that the years the 4th or other national holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday our building is closed the Friday or Monday before or after the holiday so we cannot work, but since the holiday is on the weekend, we do not get paid. That irritates me to no end. Oh, yea, a forced unpaid day off is doubly-stinky!
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 16:24:46 GMT
Anniebygaslight - we don't have a contract. That's part of the problem. If it was all written out, there wouldn't be a question. They make decisions as they go along.
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pennyring
Junior Member
Posts: 59
Location: Rite Aid
Jul 13, 2014 15:37:45 GMT
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Post by pennyring on Jul 19, 2014 16:27:40 GMT
Businesses can pretty much do whatever they want. It's up to them to set their own policies. It sounds like your business does have a very clear policy, it's just not to your advantage in this case.
My previous employer's policy was that you had to work the day before AND the day afterr the holiday to get paid for it. They never held to it though because people constantly took vacation time over holidays and still got paid.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 16:35:43 GMT
Businesses can pretty much do whatever they want. It's up to them to set their own policies. It sounds like your business does have a very clear policy, it's just not to your advantage in this case. The "business can do what they want" is what I was looking for. I'm not versed in HR law so I just kind of wondered.. thank you. I had to check the calendar though and am happy that this is the only holiday through the end of the year to fall on a Friday.
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Post by Heart on Jul 19, 2014 17:59:21 GMT
My husband and I own a small business. It truly is a family business- myself, my DH and my DS work there. A married couple works for us, and one other guy.
We are closed 3 days a year. We don't pay for those days (because we are closed). If a staff person happens to work on a holiday we are NOT closed, then they get paid for that day, but not extra.
We're small enough that many of the laws do not apply to us, but yes. We can create any holiday/vacation/etc policy we want.
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Post by chaosisapony on Jul 19, 2014 21:47:46 GMT
I have worked for two small family owned businesses in the last 10 years.
Business A people had differing schedules. We got Thanksgiving, Christmas, 4th of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day as paid holidays. The store was closed those days and if one of those fell naturally on your day off you got to pick another day off (unpaid). For example if I had Mondays off I would get to take Monday (paid) and Tuesday (unpaid) as my days off for Labor Day. They also gave us the option of working the extra day if we wanted more money. So in the above example I could choose to work Tuesday and get paid for a 6 day work week instead of a 5 day work week.
Business B where I am now, we all have the same schedule. We have the same paid holidays as the business I listed above. We are not paid for holidays that fall on the weekends since we are all off those days anyway. There are no extra days off. However they sometimes decide to close for a four day weekend if the holiday falls on a Thursday or Tuesday and in that case we are paid for the extra day off since the business is closed.
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Post by KiwiJo on Jul 19, 2014 22:09:01 GMT
I know I am in a completely different country and our employment laws are very different to yours - but that is how it works here. You get paid holiday days only if you would normally have been working anyway.
Some of our holidays are always a Monday, so people try to have Monday as a normal work day. Then they get paid for every Monday that is a holiday.
When holidays are on other days, it probably evens out over the years. you didn't get paid this year, but you did last year, and someone else may not have.
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Post by lightetc on Jul 19, 2014 22:27:23 GMT
I'm with KiwiJo - different country, different rules and in a large company - I don't get paid for days I don't work, holiday or otherwise.
We only fill out timesheets for the days we work, so I have nowhere to put the public holiday time code because it falls on a day I don't fill in.
My parents are self employed and they do the same thing. Yeah it sucks but I don't see why not paying a holiday you wouldn't have worked is any different to not paying you for any other day you don't work. It's not like the holiday made any difference to whether you came in or not.
Now if they paid people for the holiday this time but next holiday when you would have been working, they decide not to pay people, then I'd be annoyed.
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chamadog
Junior Member
Posts: 64
Jul 5, 2014 19:09:25 GMT
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Post by chamadog on Jul 19, 2014 22:32:49 GMT
In California, employers are not required to pay a premium for a holiday, pay for an unworked holiday, close business for a holiday, etc. unless there is a collective bargaining agreement or a written policy stating otherwise. The CA DLR has a whole Q&A on it.Having said that, this is not a good or nice way to handle this. I'm in HR and I will say, and stand by the idea, that labor disputes are made of these seemingly small morale killers, and those cases are the thing that labor law is made of. So, I do feel for you - this kind of thing sucks. But from a legal perspective, your employer isn't doing anything illegal. Now, I may have misunderstood what you posted above, but asking if an employee should be paid for five days worked if the employee actually worked five days would raise seven different kinds of red flags for me...and as an employee, it should raise a few for you as well. Ann
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chamadog
Junior Member
Posts: 64
Jul 5, 2014 19:09:25 GMT
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Post by chamadog on Jul 19, 2014 22:34:02 GMT
OH! I forgot one thing - is the business closed on the holiday? Because you may have a completely different issue on your hands if you could have worked, and would have worked, but the business was closed...
Ann
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Post by fotos4u2 on Jul 19, 2014 22:57:38 GMT
I work at a small family owned business and we only get 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas off and they are all unpaid days (all other holidays we are expected to work and are paid the normal amount). FWIW you don't say how big your company is, but really unless they have more than 30 employees they don't really have to follow any of the legal standards sadly enough (that is how my employer also gets out of paying for health insurance, overtime....).
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jul 19, 2014 23:17:31 GMT
My dh works for a small family owned Co, and like said prev, they can pretty much do WHATEVER the hell they want. It sucks. HR doesn't apply. There is none. Contracts? HA!! What's that? They can change your hrs, cut your hrs, change your days off, whatever they want. The good thing about working for a small company, is that you can usually have a good relationship with them, and talk to them, and you aren't a small fish in a big pond like in bigger companies.
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 23:28:06 GMT
In California, employers are not required to pay a premium for a holiday, pay for an unworked holiday, close business for a holiday, etc. unless there is a collective bargaining agreement or a written policy stating otherwise. The CA DLR has a whole Q&A on it.Having said that, this is not a good or nice way to handle this. I'm in HR and I will say, and stand by the idea, that labor disputes are made of these seemingly small morale killers, and those cases are the thing that labor law is made of. So, I do feel for you - this kind of thing sucks. But from a legal perspective, your employer isn't doing anything illegal. Now, I may have misunderstood what you posted above, but asking if an employee should be paid for five days worked if the employee actually worked five days would raise seven different kinds of red flags for me...and as an employee, it should raise a few for you as well.
Ann You're right, it is a small issue but it is a morale killer. To answer the last question, my co-worker was trying to determine if the employee should get paid for he 4th of July. If he normally works 5 days, he would get paid for he holiday. He only worked 4 days that week because the business was closed. As it turns out she determined he was a temporary, newly hired laborer and so not eligible for holiday pay. Thank you for the link!
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 23:32:42 GMT
I work at a small family owned business and we only get 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas off and they are all unpaid days (all other holidays we are expected to work and are paid the normal amount). FWIW you don't say how big your company is, but really unless they have more than 30 employees they don't really have to follow any of the legal standards sadly enough (that is how my employer also gets out of paying for health insurance, overtime....). It's a small company, under 15 employees. There really ARE a lot of pros and cons for working for a small company!
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Post by kristalina on Jul 19, 2014 23:34:06 GMT
My dh works for a small family owned Co, and like said prev, they can pretty much do WHATEVER the hell they want. It sucks. HR doesn't apply. There is none. Contracts? HA!! What's that? They can change your hrs, cut your hrs, change your days off, whatever they want. The good thing about working for a small company, is that you can usually have a good relationship with them, and talk to them, and you aren't a small fish in a big pond like in bigger companies. I've felt like this many times! I really really wish I'd gotten everything I was promised in writing. Sadly and conveniently my bosses have forgotten much of what they told me
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Post by lucyg on Jul 19, 2014 23:58:29 GMT
I worked for a larger but still small (40-50 employees) family-owned business for five years and they paid crap, but they were really good about stuff like this. I was theoretically part-time but worked 36 hrs/wk, so nearly full-time. Supposedly we didn't get Friday after Thanksgiving off, but every year they would end up saying, oh, just take the day off, because they didn't want to come in, either. I wouldn't get paid for it, because I didn't work on Fridays, but they did pay me for Thanksgiving day which I don't think they really had to do. I don't think they have to pay for holidays that aren't worked. If you aren't union, it's a gift. Chamadog sounds like she knows what she's talking about, so listen to her.
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