Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 2:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 1:22:32 GMT
No, not really. My point was not that ALL are making the choice not to work, but that any that are would be taking money from those that truly need it. I don't disagree in that money squandered could be better spent, but I suspect where we will never agree is the numbers of those people. I don't think the numbers are as high as some would like us to believe that they are. We agree there too. I said up thread, this is one of those subjects where the Peas have actually changed my original firm stance on the subject. I have heard many statistics and opinions that I hadn't heard before.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 2:01:48 GMT
To both posts quoted. Nursery and Meg, thank you for further explaining what I was saying. I thought that, given the climate of today's US politics, the meaning was clear, but apparently not. THANKS again! I know exactly what her comment was about. I have read enough to know how she feels about Christians. If you are not into religion why bring it up then? You and I both know you meant it as a kick in the nuts. You clearly have me mistaken with someone else - I am "into" religion - where the fuck does the notion that I am not religious come from besides your very active, albeit delusional, imagination? I am a practicing Reform Jew. I visit Israel every few years and my Chasidic family there. I studied comparative religion and the new and old testaments as literature in college. I am married to a Christian - I even went to church this past Sunday, did you? I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians I know. My comment was meant as a whopping kick in the nuts to politicians who claim to be Christian, all the while treating people in a way that is completely antithetical to Christ's message. I truly believe that Christ would weep were he to see how a large number of conservatives view the poor and how they want to treat them. If you don't understand that, perhaps getting off of the Internet and reading the New Testament is in order. While there is debate around interpretations of how the Bible spells out treating women and gays, there is absolute clarity about Christ's compassion for the poor. If you want to be a bitch to someone, go pick someone you actually know something about, so you don't look like an idiotic liar. People can realistically accuse me of many things, but not being into religion isn't one of them. After reading the New Testament, go re-read your spreadsheet. ETA: I've been a part of 2Peas for 14.5 years now - I challenge you to find one single post which indicates that I am not-religious. Just one, out of well over 10,000 posts there and over 5,000 here. When you don't find a single one, I would like an apology.
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Post by anxiousmom on Feb 21, 2016 2:04:02 GMT
I don't disagree in that money squandered could be better spent, but I suspect where we will never agree is the numbers of those people. I don't think the numbers are as high as some would like us to believe that they are. We agree there too. I said up thread, this is one of those subjects where the Peas have actually changed my original firm stance on the subject. I have heard many statistics and opinions that I hadn't heard before. It's funny isn't it? Ultimately, we can differ on a lot of things, but come to similar conclusions on others. I like that.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 2:18:48 GMT
I don't disagree in that money squandered could be better spent, but I suspect where we will never agree is the numbers of those people. I don't think the numbers are as high as some would like us to believe that they are. We agree there too. I said up thread, this is one of those subjects where the Peas have actually changed my original firm stance on the subject. I have heard many statistics and opinions that I hadn't heard before. It's funny isn't it? Ultimately, we can differ on a lot of things, but come to similar conclusions on others. I like that. Both of these posts.
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Post by carly on Feb 21, 2016 2:42:32 GMT
I know exactly what her comment was about. I have read enough to know how she feels about Christians. If you are not into religion why bring it up then? You and I both know you meant it as a kick in the nuts. You clearly have me mistaken with someone else - I am "into" religion - where the fuck does the notion that I am not religious come from besides your very active, albeit delusional, imagination? I am a practicing Reform Jew. I visit Israel every few years and my Chasidic family there. I studied comparative religion and the new and old testaments as literature in college. I am married to a Christian - I even went to church this past Sunday, did you? I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians I know. My comment was meant as a whopping kick in the nuts to politicians who claim to be Christian, all the while treating people in a way that is completely antithetical to Christ's message. I truly believe that Christ would weep were he to see how a large number of conservatives view the poor and how they want to treat them. If you don't understand that, perhaps getting of the Internet and reading the New Testament is in order. While there is debate around interpretations of how the Bible spells out treating women and gays, there is absolute clarity about Christ's compassion for the poor. If you want to be a bitch to someone, go pick someone you actually know something about, so you don't look like an idiotic liar. People can realistically accuse me of many things, but not being into religion isn't one of them. After reading the New Testament, go re-read your spreadsheet. I don't give a fuck what you know, do or understand about religion. Perhaps you need to get on the Internet and read a little about not willing to work and not eating in the New Testament. And your our comment about "I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians", you don't know how much people know about the Bible. Very convenient how you studied the New and Old Testament in college but the part about women and gays are not clear, but being poor is.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 2:47:32 GMT
You clearly have me mistaken with someone else - I am "into" religion - where the fuck does the notion that I am not religious come from besides your very active, albeit delusional, imagination? I am a practicing Reform Jew. I visit Israel every few years and my Chasidic family there. I studied comparative religion and the new and old testaments as literature in college. I am married to a Christian - I even went to church this past Sunday, did you? I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians I know. My comment was meant as a whopping kick in the nuts to politicians who claim to be Christian, all the while treating people in a way that is completely antithetical to Christ's message. I truly believe that Christ would weep were he to see how a large number of conservatives view the poor and how they want to treat them. If you don't understand that, perhaps getting of the Internet and reading the New Testament is in order. While there is debate around interpretations of how the Bible spells out treating women and gays, there is absolute clarity about Christ's compassion for the poor. If you want to be a bitch to someone, go pick someone you actually know something about, so you don't look like an idiotic liar. People can realistically accuse me of many things, but not being into religion isn't one of them. After reading the New Testament, go re-read your spreadsheet. I don't give a fuck what you know, do or understand about religion. Perhaps you need to get on the Internet and read a little about not willing to work and not eating in the New Testament. And your our comment about "I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians", you don't know how much people know about the Bible. Very convenient how you studied the New and Old Testament in college but the part about women and gays are not clear, but being poor is. You are hysterical! I am so glad that you proved ALL my points correct, except for your last sentence which is complete gobbledegook - although that speaks to your overactive imagination. I wish you a good life and maybe I'll see you in church or temple someday, since I do both. LOL!
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 21, 2016 2:56:03 GMT
Very convenient how you studied the New and Old Testament in college but the part about women and gays are not clear, but being poor is. W T everloving F are you on about? Just admit that you were wrong about Elaine - either your memory is shot or you inadvertently merged a few cells on your spreadsheet - and move along.
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Post by nurseypants on Feb 21, 2016 2:58:40 GMT
Carly, for whom Christ is the most important thing in her life, does not give a fuck. Yay!!
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Post by carly on Feb 21, 2016 3:19:44 GMT
Carly, for whom Christ is the most important thing in her life, does not give a fuck. Yay!! You need to brush up on your reading skills. QUOTE "but do you realize to lots of people Christ is the most important thing in their lives" Also since you want to put your 2 cents in it, you neglected the "fuck" the college educated, practicing Reform Jew Elaine is.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 3:25:47 GMT
Carly, for whom Christ is the most important thing in her life, does not give a fuck. Yay!! You need to brush up on your reading skills. QUOTE "but do you realize to lots of people Christ is the most important thing in their lives" Also since you want to put your 2 cents in it, you neglected the "fuck" the college educated, practicing Reform Jew Elaine is. Oh, puhleeeease, you might as well get it right, for the first time in this thread. I'm not just college educated, but also have a Masters and a PhD AND said the word "fuck," which isn't prohibited in Judaism. Nor will I ever try to be elected into office by touting how Christian I am. But it since you are apparently getting some weird needs met by this discourse, by all means keep it going, you loving nut! By the way, how are you doing going over my 24+ thousand posts looking for one glimmer of non-religion in them? Do tell!
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Post by nurseypants on Feb 21, 2016 3:26:03 GMT
You are right, I did assume you were referring to yourself. I guess you weren't. Your super-klassy response makes more sense now.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Feb 21, 2016 3:45:38 GMT
I don't feel that everyone needs or should be drug tested, but if there is a suspicion of drug use, then they should have to take a test. Many jobs require the employee to sign a paper saying they will agree to drug testing, so why not people receiving government help? Do you really think it's a wise economic decision to spend $336,000 to identify 48 drug users? How will it cost $336,000 if a very small percent of people are being tested? Case workers would have guidelines to follow and document why a person should be tested.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 3:53:21 GMT
Do you really think it's a wise economic decision to spend $336,000 to identify 48 drug users? How will it cost $336,000 if a very small percent of people are being tested? Case workers would have guidelines to follow and document why a person should be tested. One cannot test only some people receiving TANF according to some profile, unless one wants to open oneself to discrimination lawsuits. One has to drug test ALL or none, unless one is willing to cover the cost of losing a lawsuit regarding discrimination in drug testing for receiving benefits, which will cost more than all of the costs we have discussed so far.
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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 21, 2016 3:57:40 GMT
To both posts quoted. Nursery and Meg, thank you for further explaining what I was saying. I thought that, given the climate of today's US politics, the meaning was clear, but apparently not. THANKS again! I know exactly what her comment was about. I have read enough to know how she feels about Christians. If you are not into religion why bring it up then? You and I both know you meant it as a kick in the nuts. Also since you want to put your 2 cents in it, you neglected the "fuck" the college educated, practicing Reform Jew Elaine is. Wanna explain what being Jewish has to do w/your rant about Elaine? What on earth are you talking about? I've never heard Elaine say anything even remotely anti-Christian and I've been around 2peas since the beginning(as a lurker for 4 years and then a poster since 2003). I read her post as saying that we should be more Christ-like, not that Christians are bad. I'm gobsmacked.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Feb 21, 2016 4:02:30 GMT
Do you really think it's a wise economic decision to spend $336,000 to identify 48 drug users? How will it cost $336,000 if a very small percent of people are being tested? Case workers would have guidelines to follow and document why a person should be tested. Did you read the article? That's how much Missouri already spent in one year, PLUS startup costs of the program. It WILL not cost that much. It DID cost that much.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 2:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 5:30:36 GMT
We agree there too. I said up thread, this is one of those subjects where the Peas have actually changed my original firm stance on the subject. I have heard many statistics and opinions that I hadn't heard before. It's funny isn't it? Ultimately, we can differ on a lot of things, but come to similar conclusions on others. I like that. I like that too. You're always so kind and thoughtful in your responses anxiousmom.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Feb 21, 2016 5:39:27 GMT
So if we only test those that are "suspected" of using drugs, what exactly is the criteria going to be? Dilated pupils? Bad skin? Missing teeth? That they only seem to buy stoner foods like Cheetos and spaghettiOs with their snap cards?
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Feb 21, 2016 6:03:26 GMT
I'm confused (as usual). What does this drug testing program even have to do with religion? I read the article and it didn't even mention religion.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 21, 2016 6:15:40 GMT
I didn't know you had Chasidic family members. You are so interesting. (I have a good memory) but I didn't know this! Cool!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 21, 2016 8:31:38 GMT
You are working very hard to be offended. Maybe to you, but do you realize to lots of people Christ is the most important thing in their lives. I think she meant "being Christ-like" in the terms that others help others, love thy neighbor kind of thing. I believe that she means that Christ wouldn't require drug tests to feed the poor, the town trodden, etc... ETA: missed a whole page, I'm late to the party on this one!! Lol
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 21, 2016 8:38:06 GMT
You clearly have me mistaken with someone else - I am "into" religion - where the fuck does the notion that I am not religious come from besides your very active, albeit delusional, imagination? I am a practicing Reform Jew. I visit Israel every few years and my Chasidic family there. I studied comparative religion and the new and old testaments as literature in college. I am married to a Christian - I even went to church this past Sunday, did you? I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians I know. My comment was meant as a whopping kick in the nuts to politicians who claim to be Christian, all the while treating people in a way that is completely antithetical to Christ's message. I truly believe that Christ would weep were he to see how a large number of conservatives view the poor and how they want to treat them. If you don't understand that, perhaps getting of the Internet and reading the New Testament is in order. While there is debate around interpretations of how the Bible spells out treating women and gays, there is absolute clarity about Christ's compassion for the poor. If you want to be a bitch to someone, go pick someone you actually know something about, so you don't look like an idiotic liar. People can realistically accuse me of many things, but not being into religion isn't one of them. After reading the New Testament, go re-read your spreadsheet. I don't give a fuck what you know, do or understand about religion. Perhaps you need to get on the Internet and read a little about not willing to work and not eating in the New Testament. And your our comment about "I know more about Christianity and the Bible than many Christians", you don't know how much people know about the Bible. Very convenient how you studied the New and Old Testament in college but the part about women and gays are not clear, but being poor is. Epic fail on this post. You might want to stop now, you are looking like a complete ass in your unfounded attacks on Elaine and your "so called knowledge"
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Post by hop2 on Feb 21, 2016 12:53:30 GMT
I am a Christian ( though not into a specific organized religion ) I was a Catholic. I married a non practicing conservative Jew and raised 2 reform Jews. ( whatever the fuck that all has to do with this thread ) there I said fuck and I didn't even misspell it!
Ok feeding the poor, helping those less fortunate than you are is mentioned multiple times in the bible, new and old testaments. Not once is there a mention of any conditions to be met by those needing help other than they need help.
Here's a nice piece from Leviticus that was part of my DD's Torah portion
"And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them for the poor, and for the stranger: I am the LORD your God." Look there are zero qualifications about who can take your 'corners' or gleanings
But if you want Christ's own teachings thru his apostles, how about this nice passage from James; which basically says what Elaine was saying
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
If politicians are going to hold being Christian out like a shining beacon of how they deserve our vote then perhaps they ought to walk the walk more than talk the talk. ( cause you know that IS exactly what Christ said, no dithering or unclear language about it. )
Now having said all of that, I am actually not against drug tests for those receiving aid. However if you test people, you had better have treatment for them available or your wasting your time and money. Identifying an addict doesn't accomplish anything at all. Only treatment will. And right now treatment is thousands and thousands of dollars. Most people can not afford it.
I dare you to find ANYWHERE in the bible where it tells you to determine if a person is worthy of your help. The only qualification ever given is that the need your help or even appear to need it!!!!
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Post by farmdpea on Feb 21, 2016 13:11:37 GMT
Can we please have an intelligent discussion and avoid personal attacks. Please? Please?
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Post by hop2 on Feb 21, 2016 14:13:44 GMT
Can we please have an intelligent discussion and avoid personal attacks. Please? Please? I apologize. After reading the thread I had the impression that Posting required my religious pedigree and the ability to use the F word. I let my sarcastic self get the better of me. I do apologize about that.
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Post by carly on Feb 21, 2016 18:46:24 GMT
Elaine do not send me private messages accusing me of knowing someone else who you have had altercation with.
You can pretend that your FUCKING comment wasn't a backhanded remark but I don't believe it for one second. Now go and share your smart ass comments with someone else. Keep on with your smiley face inserts and your smart ass comments, but don't private message me. Whoever Nicole is must have figured your bullshit out too.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Feb 21, 2016 19:00:49 GMT
Elaine do not send me private messages accusing me of knowing someone else who you have had altercation with. You can pretend that your FUCKING comment wasn't a backhanded remark but I don't believe it for one second. Now go and share your smart ass comments with someone else. Keep on with your smiley face inserts and your smart ass comments, but don't private message me. Whoever Nicole is must have figured your bullshit out too. I would think that those to whom Christ is so important would try to follow his example a wee bit better.
Which was kind of the point of the comment you went off on.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 19:09:15 GMT
Elaine do not send me private messages accusing me of knowing someone else who you have had altercation with. You can pretend that your FUCKING comment wasn't a backhanded remark but I don't believe it for one second. Now go and share your smart ass comments with someone else. Keep on with your smiley face inserts and your smart ass comments, but don't private message me. Whoever Nicole is must have figured your bullshit out too. Carly, you are a real gem - I hope that we see you participate regularly, rather than at odd moments every few months! Your reading comprehension should be much better than it is - I've already admitted my comment WAS a kick in the nuts (as you stated before), and if you want to downgrade it to a back handed comment (it actually was too direct to back-handed) - it was that too - to the politicians and conservatives who like to brag about how important Christianity and Christian values are to them, all the while acting the exact opposite of what Christ preached. It really isn't that complicated. I promise. I think a number of people here have now said the same things if my words are somehow difficult to comprehend. Please feel free to block me - it is easy to do - if perfectly friendly pm's bother you. Feel free to post it in its entirety. It is clear that you are an alter, because someone who has so few posts would have little reason to assume to know so much about people here. If you actually are some unique individual who reads here regularly, you would know who Nicole is, since you share important things in common. So, either you are completely ignorant of 2Peas and Refupeas, and you completely fabricated your accusations about me, or you actually follow Refupeas as someone, harbor intense feelings about me who has never interacted with you under your Carly name, and explode at random times. Either way, you are completely entertaining and fascinating - keep it up!
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Feb 21, 2016 19:13:33 GMT
I'm ignorant because I have no clue who Nicole is either. I'm apathetic too (which is probably why I'm clueless) so no need to clue me in.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2016 19:26:42 GMT
I'm ignorant because I have no clue who Nicole is either. I'm apathetic too (which is probably why I'm clueless) so no need to clue me in. No worries! I won't further explicate. I am just fascinated by this whole exchange. I will admit to saying some things that wouldn't surprise me if some people had issues with. This wasn't one of them, as it clearly was not a slam against Christianity, just people who give it lip service without actually following the tenets of Christ. Whoever Carly is, she apparently has issues with me that have nothing to do with my posts on this thread. Back to OP, I hope that no more states decide to throw money at drug testing welfare recipients, because the only people who win are the drug companies who develop the tests, not the taxpayers.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 2:48:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 19:27:25 GMT
I'm just going to leave this here
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