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Post by cyndijane on Mar 23, 2016 1:44:33 GMT
My SIL was fostering a child they knew they'd never be able to adopt because he is Native American, and not able to be adopted out of his tribe. Really hard for everyone. No one in his family really wanted him, although they finally found an aunt to take him. SIL would have kept him in a heartbeat.
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 23, 2016 1:56:07 GMT
I'm confused. Is she now living with her biological father?
Eta: no, she is living with people who are not NA, but are related to her father. Sounds like her father might be in jail, but 'm not sure. Well, she will be living near siblings, which is nice. But it does sound like she had a loving home already.. What am I missing?
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Post by scrappysurfer on Mar 23, 2016 2:07:15 GMT
I've been following this case because it is very similar to the Baby Veronica case that was local to me a few years ago. In that case, she was legally adopted after the father signed away his rights, then he used ICWA to try to renege and gain custody. The adoptive parents won after the case was seen by the SCOTUS. But it was a similar circus, with the child being ripped from her adoptive parents arms and then taken away again from her biological father who had custody for about 2 years.
ICWA is an outdated, racist "law" that tears families apart in the name of "Indian" interest. It's disgusting how many families it has ripped apart.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 23, 2016 2:20:13 GMT
IMO, there are/were good intentions behind the ICWA but in reality, I have seen many situations where the best interest of the child was not the same as the best interests of the tribe or whoever was making the decisions on behalf of the tribe. It is sad and frustrating.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 23, 2016 2:24:05 GMT
I did, but why wasn't she placed in the custody of relatives when he went to jail? I didn't see that clarified. I just read that she was in 2 foster homes before making her way to the Page's. Also, if she has siblings that ended up with extended family (or something...down the street) why didn't she? The foster system is a bear to understand when you have been involved. I'm guessing you have no inside knowledge of thecrazy that is foster care in the US? It is even more crazy and can often make no sense at all when the child has any Native American heritage. Sometimes the tribe is not involved At all until after the process has been going on for a period of time (often because the family was not involved with the tribe). It really is a waste of time trying to make sense of this when we don't have all Of the details.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Mar 23, 2016 2:27:22 GMT
I've been following this case because it is very similar to the Baby Veronica case that was local to me a few years ago. In that case, she was legally adopted after the father signed away his rights, then he used ICWA to try to renege and gain custody. The adoptive parents won after the case was seen by the SCOTUS. But it was a similar circus, with the child being ripped from her adoptive parents arms and then taken away again from her biological father who had custody for about 2 years. ICWA is an outdated, racist "law" that tears families apart in the name of "Indian" interest. It's disgusting how many families it has ripped apart. It is ridiculous how many tribes have been torn apart because white people decided they know better. I think a history lesson or 10 would be very valuable in understanding that law. You sound uneducated and racist yourself. Actually racist rather than "racist".
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Mar 23, 2016 2:47:25 GMT
That poor little girl and her poor family! The most ironic part of that article: What values of family?! You rip a little girl from the only family she's ever known for some sick, twisted sense of ethnic belonging, and that is supposed to be the "value of family" ! Where the hell is the common sense in this case?
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Post by flanz on Mar 23, 2016 2:50:12 GMT
how horrible! I signed the change.org petition.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Mar 23, 2016 2:50:29 GMT
One of my best friends is NA, and she and her husband have both fostered and adopted other NA children. It's an extremely difficult process, and the tribes are very thorough and exacting. I suspect that the tribe made this decision after a long, thought out process, and nothing was done frivolously.
Regardless of whether anyone thinks the ICWA is "racist" or outdated doesn't matter. What DOES matter is that the foster family could have mitigated the stress of this, and could have handled it in a timely manner. They dragged it out for years, ensuring that her closest bond was with them. They went public with demonstrations and the media, which undoubtedly added to the fear and emotion of the day.
When you add in the fact that they did this before... Well, it seems very orchestrated and planned to me. Otherwise, wouldn't they be more cautious?
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 5:14:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2016 3:00:10 GMT
Agreed.
This is a peeve of mine, people who foster and forget that the goal of the agencies involved is to reunite families; the children are going to be best served by being prepared for that, since that's the stated goal from the very outset.
Children's services in most states is really upfront that their goal is to stabilize families to get their kids back. It doesn't always happen of course, but the histrionics and drama this family created made this much harder for this child.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Mar 23, 2016 3:05:46 GMT
That poor little girl and her poor family! The most ironic part of that article: What values of family?! You rip a little girl from the only family she's ever known for some sick, twisted sense of ethnic belonging, and that is supposed to be the "value of family" ! Where the hell is the common sense in this case? 2013 is when the father (after two years of trying to regain custody) requested to have Lexi placed with his family. At that point, she had only been there a year, I believe. The other family (which includes her aunt, as well as her sister) has been going to California to visit her monthly during this process. She has also visited their home. They are hardly strangers.
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Post by katlady on Mar 23, 2016 3:51:50 GMT
I hate that the little girl was torn away like she was, but foster families are not supposed to be permanent homes. They are temporary until the parent or relative is able to care for the child. Of course, this doesn't always happen, but that is the intent. Lexi's biological family wanted her back, from way back in 2011. The father tried first for custody, then the relatives. IMHO, the foster family created the situation where Lexi only knew them as her family. It is just a sad story.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Mar 23, 2016 11:38:55 GMT
That poor little girl and her poor family! The most ironic part of that article: What values of family?! You rip a little girl from the only family she's ever known for some sick, twisted sense of ethnic belonging, and that is supposed to be the "value of family" ! Where the hell is the common sense in this case? 2013 is when the father (after two years of trying to regain custody) requested to have Lexi placed with his family. At that point, she had only been there a year, I believe. The other family (which includes her aunt, as well as her sister) has been going to California to visit her monthly during this process. She has also visited their home. They are hardly strangers. I did not see that in the article. I stand corrected.
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Post by bostonmama on Mar 23, 2016 13:00:52 GMT
I did, but why wasn't she placed in the custody of relatives when he went to jail? I didn't see that clarified. I just read that she was in 2 foster homes before making her way to the Page's. Also, if she has siblings that ended up with extended family (or something...down the street) why didn't she? The foster system is a bear to understand when you have been involved. I'm guessing you have no inside knowledge of thecrazy that is foster care in the US? None at all. I did think they tried to get family to take in a child if possible, though, no?
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Mar 23, 2016 13:09:29 GMT
The foster system is a bear to understand when you have been involved. I'm guessing you have no inside knowledge of thecrazy that is foster care in the US? None at all. I did think they tried to get family to take in a child if possible, though, no? They do. But sometimes shit happens. Think about your own life for a moment, have there been times when someone calling you up and asking you to take a child on that wasn't yours would have felt impossible? For example, say that something had gone down last October in my family and my cousin's children were removed from their home. In the past 6 months I have been trying to finish grad school and my dh has been hospitalized 4 times and had surgery one of them, each time for at least 7 days stay. We had holidays and both of my kids birthdays. We were moving across the country, our house was listed for sale and we were packing. There is no way that I could have taken on a child that wasn't my own. I could barely help my own kids maintain some semblance of normalcy. But say in summer we buy a house, settle in and we are back to normal. The child has been in foster care nearly a year, cps calls me up and says that the parents rights are severed and would I be interested in adoption. I likely would. And now would be in a space to provide a good, stable home for a child coming from a crazy year or longer. That is the job of the foster parent. To provide a stable home and love until such a time as they can be reunited with family and go back. That is always the plan. If that takes 3 days or 3 years, it doesn't matter. The point is to work to get those kids back to their family. If that takes some time for the family to prepare for, then that should be ok. Not everyone has the capacity at any given moment to just suddenly have more children. The foster parents are wrong. They made terrible and traumatizing an event that they were duty bound to prepare and help this little girl with. Basically they are selfish and they suck. They never should have been allowed to drag this out as long as they did.
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Post by refugeepea on Mar 23, 2016 13:45:29 GMT
I think families that want to adopt should have a thorough knowledge of the bio parents history. If there is any trace of Native American I would never want to try to the adopt the child. Every case is different and I see how the foster parents have blame in this situation. I know of another case when a boy was taken away from his adoptive parents and in that situation, it was very sad and a different set of circumstances.
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Post by *sprout* on Mar 23, 2016 14:05:40 GMT
My heart breaks for the little girl and the trauma the foster family put her through.
As a licensed foster parent, the foster family in this case is wrong. The goal of any foster situation is always family reunification. Always. That means either reunification with the parents or other family members. Adoption via fostering (which is what my family is in the process of doing) is the last resort.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Mar 23, 2016 14:22:16 GMT
I think families that want to adopt should have a thorough knowledge of the bio parents history. If there is any trace of Native American I would never want to try to the adopt the child. Every case is different and I see how the foster parents have blame in this situation. I know of another case when a boy was taken away from his adoptive parents and in that situation, it was very sad and a different set of circumstances. I have a friend who had a baby that was half American Indian that she placed with a family for adoption. It did require the biological dad giving up parental rights (and I imagine the tribe had to sign off? not sure of those details - this was over 20 years ago), but the process went smoothly. I understand the historical basis for ICWA, but I think in some instances today it's not used in the spirit that the law was intended. In the case of Lexi, I feel horribly for the little girl. I'm sure the foster parents love her and provided a loving home, but in the end I think they were wrong.
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zella
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Post by zella on Mar 23, 2016 19:25:59 GMT
Thank you to everyone who dug deeper into this story. It always tugs at our heartstrings when we read about an incident like this, but it usually turns out there are many more layers to the story, and it's not just officious, incompetent bureaucrats trying to destroy a happy American family for no good reason. That'd be like taking one of my kids (when they were young) and forcing them to relocate to Norway, since they are about 1/64th Norwegian. What a ridiculous reading of the law. No, it would be nothing like taking one of your kids. There are no laws in this country specifically enacted to protect children of Norwegian descent from being removed from their families and tribes, the way Native American children were for generations. I know about the laws and why they were put into place. My point is that when "blood" is diluted that much, and when the child is sent to people she doesn't know at all, it is just the same as being sent to strangers. No, she's not being sent out of the US, but what's best for Lexi isn't being considered here.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Mar 23, 2016 20:36:59 GMT
Thank you to everyone who dug deeper into this story. It always tugs at our heartstrings when we read about an incident like this, but it usually turns out there are many more layers to the story, and it's not just officious, incompetent bureaucrats trying to destroy a happy American family for no good reason. No, it would be nothing like taking one of your kids. There are no laws in this country specifically enacted to protect children of Norwegian descent from being removed from their families and tribes, the way Native American children were for generations. I know about the laws and why they were put into place. My point is that when "blood" is diluted that much, and when the child is sent to people she doesn't know at all, it is just the same as being sent to strangers. No, she's not being sent out of the US, but what's best for Lexi isn't being considered here. I don't know who the family is that she went to. An Aunt or Uncle or Cousin or something? The blood dilution is how much NA blood does she have and does it qualify her as a member of a specific tribe. Two entirely separate issues. And she would have known these people better (she does know them), if the foster family had been playing by the rules and had not run this through the courts. They did this to her. They caused this. If someone did this to your family would you just say "Well to hell with it now that it's been a few years"? Doubtful.
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Post by katlady on Mar 23, 2016 20:44:15 GMT
According to different articles, Lexi was not sent to people who were complete strangers to her. Lexi's aunt and sister often visited her at her foster home.
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Post by anonrefugee on Mar 23, 2016 20:58:50 GMT
I followed a previous case more closely, so I learned some information here.
Was the foster family promoting the law as the cause, rather than the more common family relationship?
If so it seems like a very calculated plan to use a certain conservative demographic to gain support.
A significant portion of my family is Native American, as are many friends. Some of them are politically conservative and actively sharing articles supporting the foster family. ETA probably not what most people would expect.
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Post by scrappysurfer on Mar 23, 2016 22:58:54 GMT
I've been following this case because it is very similar to the Baby Veronica case that was local to me a few years ago. In that case, she was legally adopted after the father signed away his rights, then he used ICWA to try to renege and gain custody. The adoptive parents won after the case was seen by the SCOTUS. But it was a similar circus, with the child being ripped from her adoptive parents arms and then taken away again from her biological father who had custody for about 2 years. ICWA is an outdated, racist "law" that tears families apart in the name of "Indian" interest. It's disgusting how many families it has ripped apart. It is ridiculous how many tribes have been torn apart because white people decided they know better. I think a history lesson or 10 would be very valuable in understanding that law. You sound uneducated and racist yourself. Actually racist rather than "racist". I do understand the law, both its history and current uses and misuses. Actually I'm the exact opposite of both terms uneducated and racist. Your comments to me make you sound exactly that.
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Post by bc2ca on Mar 23, 2016 23:26:25 GMT
I've been following this case because it is very similar to the Baby Veronica case that was local to me a few years ago. In that case, she was legally adopted after the father signed away his rights, then he used ICWA to try to renege and gain custody. The adoptive parents won after the case was seen by the SCOTUS. But it was a similar circus, with the child being ripped from her adoptive parents arms and then taken away again from her biological father who had custody for about 2 years. ICWA is an outdated, racist "law" that tears families apart in the name of "Indian" interest. It's disgusting how many families it has ripped apart. This case is the opposite of the case you are citing. Lexi's father never lost or signed away his parental rights. In the summer of 2013, he was not able to regain custody of her (something very different) and asked that his daughter be placed with family members out of state. This is a very common, normal and reasonable request in the foster system, irregardless of his ICWA status. The Utah family would have been evaluated, the process of introducing them to Lexi through regular visits started and a judge ordered the transfer of custody in Dec 2013. The foster parents, who really had no legal right to fight for custody as licensed foster parents, fought for and were granted a stay of the Dec 2013 custody order. According to family friends, Baby A’s father and extended family were devastated by the decision. Legal experts contend the stay ignored five key facts in the case: 1) That he is the biological Indian parent of Baby A; 2) his parental rights have not been terminated; 3) that he still has standing in the case; 4) that he therefore has a say in determining where his child should be placed; and 5) that the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, who also has standing in this case, supports father’s placement wishes.
As much as they wanted to be, the Pages were never Lexi's adoptive parents and I hope they have lost their foster license over extending this fight for 2+ years and the gong show they created around the final transfer of custody. Of course, it was heartbreaking to watch, of course Lexi is going to be traumatized by it, but that is 100% on the Pages for the way they chose to handle it.
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on Mar 23, 2016 23:29:03 GMT
Thank you to everyone who dug deeper into this story. It always tugs at our heartstrings when we read about an incident like this, but it usually turns out there are many more layers to the story, and it's not just officious, incompetent bureaucrats trying to destroy a happy American family for no good reason. No, it would be nothing like taking one of your kids. There are no laws in this country specifically enacted to protect children of Norwegian descent from being removed from their families and tribes, the way Native American children were for generations. I know about the laws and why they were put into place. My point is that when "blood" is diluted that much, and when the child is sent to people she doesn't know at all, it is just the same as being sent to strangers. No, she's not being sent out of the US, but what's best for Lexi isn't being considered here. I believe that the father is NA, and the mother is not. She is going to live with the mother's sister (hence the non-NA family), who already has custody or guardianship of her sister. It is not diluted blood, nor are they people she doesn't know.
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Post by scrappysurfer on Mar 24, 2016 0:24:25 GMT
I've been following this case because it is very similar to the Baby Veronica case that was local to me a few years ago. In that case, she was legally adopted after the father signed away his rights, then he used ICWA to try to renege and gain custody. The adoptive parents won after the case was seen by the SCOTUS. But it was a similar circus, with the child being ripped from her adoptive parents arms and then taken away again from her biological father who had custody for about 2 years. ICWA is an outdated, racist "law" that tears families apart in the name of "Indian" interest. It's disgusting how many families it has ripped apart. This case is the opposite of the case you are citing. Lexi's father never lost or signed away his parental rights. In the summer of 2013, he was not able to regain custody of her (something very different) and asked that his daughter be placed with family members out of state. This is a very common, normal and reasonable request in the foster system, irregardless of his ICWA status. The Utah family would have been evaluated, the process of introducing them to Lexi through regular visits started and a judge ordered the transfer of custody in Dec 2013. The foster parents, who really had no legal right to fight for custody as licensed foster parents, fought for and were granted a stay of the Dec 2013 custody order. According to family friends, Baby A’s father and extended family were devastated by the decision. Legal experts contend the stay ignored five key facts in the case: 1) That he is the biological Indian parent of Baby A; 2) his parental rights have not been terminated; 3) that he still has standing in the case; 4) that he therefore has a say in determining where his child should be placed; and 5) that the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, who also has standing in this case, supports father’s placement wishes.
As much as they wanted to be, the Pages were never Lexi's adoptive parents and I hope they have lost their foster license over extending this fight for 2+ years and the gong show they created around the final transfer of custody. Of course, it was heartbreaking to watch, of course Lexi is going to be traumatized by it, but that is 100% on the Pages for the way they chose to handle it. You are 100% right, and it was my mistake in not further stating that this case is not the same.
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zella
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Post by zella on Mar 24, 2016 0:28:06 GMT
It seems we're getting lots of different info from different sources.
By "diluted blood" I mean simply that having one great-great-grandparent who is Native American is totally different from having both parents, or even one parent, who are Native American, just as my daughters having great-great-grandparents who were Norwegian wouldn't make my daughters Norwegian. I know, I know, not the same thing. I was just trying to make a point. I didn't do so very well, clearly. My bad. I was working off of that 1/64th figure.
If indeed the foster parents were prolonging this, and Lexi was going to family she knew and who wanted her, then that is a whole different story to what I read, and what first showed up on this thread.
It's impossible for us to know the truth, really, isn't it? Situations like this are always heartbreaking. I just hope this all turns out to be in Lexi's best interests.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Mar 24, 2016 1:26:34 GMT
It is ridiculous how many tribes have been torn apart because white people decided they know better. I think a history lesson or 10 would be very valuable in understanding that law. You sound uneducated and racist yourself. Actually racist rather than "racist". I do understand the law, both its history and current uses and misuses. Actually I'm the exact opposite of both terms uneducated and racist. Your comments to me make you sound exactly that. Your post makes no sense.
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 24, 2016 2:22:01 GMT
It's impossible for us to know the truth, really, isn't it? Situations like this are always heartbreaking. I just hope this all turns out to be in Lexi's best interests. [ Actually, it's quite easy to find the truth because the case is well-documented in the court record. There is no way to spin this honestly in a positive light for the foster parents. I completely agree with the PP who suggested they should lose their foster license, especially since that have done this twice (fighting for custody when they had no right).
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Post by fotos4u2 on Mar 26, 2016 5:52:27 GMT
This case is local to us so all over the place. I agree with others that the foster family really made this so much more traumatic for Lexi than was necessary. She is the real victim here for them prolonging the case and then bringing in the media (and whipping the locals and outside sources into a frenzy--I actually saw a group suggest calling and harassing all the members of the tribe until they "bring Lexi home").
The only "good" in all this is it has resulted in some good discussions in my family about what the ICWA law was created for, racism, and to always do research before signing a petition for something.
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