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Post by ilikepink on Apr 28, 2016 15:06:23 GMT
As I have said before - we give our children roots and wings. The roots take longer, but the wings are much harder.
She has to make her own decisions, and her own mistakes, or she will not continue to grow. As parents, we don't always agree with those decisions, but it's not our call. Unless there is a life-threatening situation, the parents need to stay out of it. However, if gratitude, appreciation and manners are important to you and your family - then those things should be insisted upon. If you loan money/do favors, a thank you should be expressed - or don't do the favor again. You really have to figure out what is important to you as a mom/family, and pick those battles.
Lots of tongue-biting goes on for parents of young adults--just think what we put our parents through!
Hugs - it's not easy.
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 8:27:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 15:11:55 GMT
I doubt this generation is any more self centered than previous generation. I think that we are far enough past that point in our life's that we see it more clearly now.
I think it comes down to the person not a generation. Our oldest tends toward self centeredness but he was our first and the first grandbaby on both sides so we may have brought some of it on ourselves. Our dd who is only 2 years younger isn't like this at all.
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gsquaredmom
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Posts: 4,091
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Apr 28, 2016 15:42:26 GMT
Sounds like you did your job. She sounds like an adult who is becoming more independent and decisive. Good for all of you!
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 8:27:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 16:36:44 GMT
Well here is an interesting twist. I did a little googling out of curiosity and it appears that DDs gf has a young child (maybe 3 or 4). DD works with kids at one of her jobs and I had seen some pics of her with who is probably her gf's child a few time and I never thought much of it (course I didn't know she had a gf then). They didn't mention it to us and of course it wasn't something we asked when chatting.
It is kind of sad that she didn't/wouldn't come talk to us but besides her being non-confrontational she doesn't like to talk about personal stuff at all. Yet her gf has full sleeve tattoos, bull ring piercing and dreadlocks. And we didn't bat an eye when meeting her. Groovy.
At least after this visit DD didn't raid our cupboard and freezer and take a week's worth of groceries like she usually does. She certainly is growing up quickly, I guess. Sorry I'm just feeling all over with this whole deal and time will certainly help....
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Post by papersilly on Apr 28, 2016 17:09:33 GMT
regarding the college degree, I think your "thanks" should be the fact that she graduated. just because she chose not to accompany the graduation with the traditional ceremonial activities doesn't mean that your $$ contribution that or her efforts are minimized. when I graduated, I chose to do it quietly. no ceremony. to party. nothing. the fact that I graduated was statement enough. that is what I wanted but that didn't mean I didn't deeply appreciate all the help my parents gave me and I appreciate it to this day.
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Kerri W
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Posts: 3,788
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Apr 28, 2016 17:14:21 GMT
Well here is an interesting twist. I did a little googling out of curiosity and it appears that DDs gf has a young child (maybe 3 or 4). DD works with kids at one of her jobs and I had seen some pics of her with who is probably her gf's child a few time and I never thought much of it (course I didn't know she had a gf then). They didn't mention it to us and of course it wasn't something we asked when chatting. It is kind of sad that she didn't/wouldn't come talk to us but besides her being non-confrontational she doesn't like to talk about personal stuff at all. Yet her gf has full sleeve tattoos, bull ring piercing and dreadlocks. And we didn't bat an eye when meeting her. Groovy. At least after this visit DD didn't raid our cupboard and freezer and take a week's worth of groceries like she usually does. She certainly is growing up quickly, I guess. Sorry I'm just feeling all over with this whole deal and time will certainly help.... I'm a quiet person. I would not have enjoyed the pomp and circumstance of walking and would have refused. It's unfortunate you don't feel appreciated. Honestly...that probably started LONG before now and probably should have been addressed then. As for her not sharing anything with you? You come across as incredibly judgmental about her lifestyle. You've said you have never said anything to her...but I'm guessing you don't HAVE TO. It's loud and clear girlfriend. I do totally understand that it's hard to watch your kids do things you don't agree with.
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basketdiva
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Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Apr 28, 2016 17:16:35 GMT
I didn't walk in ceremonies either. I find them boring and a waste of time. Time that I could be sleeping, or relaxing somewhere or out celebrating. So, I understand her thinking on that one. Unless you told her before hand that it was very important to you to see her in the actual ceremony. What matters is the degree. The knowledge. Honestly, why would it be important to her to get a full-time job with insurance, if she is making ends pretty much meet with her existing jobs and is able to enjoy her freedom to participate in sports and party at the same time, and you are paying her insurance and deductible? Sounds like she is thinking logically on that one. Why not enjoy life, if someone else is going to take care of it for you? I disagree- she is thinking in the here and now and with no concern for the future. She needs to start considering how to pay for her own insurance and start being responsible for her portion of the deductible and any co-pays. Mom and Dad need to have a talk about the cost of these items and let her know that she will need to be responsible for these items in x number of months.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 28, 2016 17:18:45 GMT
it sounds to me like she's 'sort of' an adult, but not really, because what she chooses is a job, etc. that allows her to do her own activities, but she's not the one paying entirely for that lifestyle. You are, by still carrying her on your insurance. And you've said she's hurt herself doing some of those activities, and your insurance (and you) have paid for that?? If it was me, I'd give her 3-6 months notice that she's coming off of your insurance-- she's an adult, she chooses to participate in extreme sports (that come with higher risks) then SHE should be paying for it. Not you. If that means she needs to get a better-paying job to support her hobbies, well, she can suck it up and do that. Making those kinds of trade-offs is what us adults DO. I agree with these bits of what linda posted: "Health insurance - pretty sure there's a legal cut-off in the US at age 26 now for carrying young adults on their parents' insurance. If it costs you extra to carry her (it did for us - our insurance premiums are tiered and 3+ kids plus a non-working spouse = the highest premium tier - dropping our oldest off lowered the premiums) you have the option of asking her to pay the difference or pick up insurance on the marketplace or get a job with insurance or pay the tax penalty for not having it. For US - the extra premium wasn't high enough to justify charging him or kicking him off the policy (he was removed when he joined the military and no longer needed it) Don't loan money - give it to her as a gift or don't give it. You could do what my mum did and draw up a promissary note but my guess is that won't help because if she's going to repay it, she will either way and if she isn't, then your options are to forgive the loan or sue in small claims court." I only agree somewhat with the part about the money, though: again, if it was me, I wouldn't give money as a gift unless there was an occasion for a gift (birthday, etc.) and that would be only if I couldn't come up with a 'real gift' to give. In my opinion giving an adult child random money (if they ask for it, or just randomly) sets them up to feel like they don't have to become self-sufficient.
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inkedup
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Apr 28, 2016 17:38:06 GMT
We talk about this all the time at work--the generations coming in behind us are self centered-all about me, me, ME! They feel no loyalty or obligation to family, don't know what it is to make a sacrifice or go without, don't save money, no such thing as planning for their futures, get pissed if you (parents) don't "rescue" them or bail them out of a financial bind or loan them $$$, and it's the age of "Go Fund Me". They don't take anyone into consideration when making decisions except themselves and don't think through how their decisions affect others. I'd be long past being over this situation--to be told I'm not coming home at Christmas because I need a break from you (as a parent) would have been my last straw. She's an adult. So let her adult! As for the new gf, regardless of how you feel, she might manipulate how her acceptance is perceived towards others if she doesn't get her way because she's shown that behavior before. So be who you are because it's likely not going to matter anyway! As for confrontation and losing your shit with her, over the other stuff--tell her she's an adult and it's high time she starts getting on being one! But....who raised these people to be this way? Your generation, right?
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raindancer
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Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Apr 28, 2016 17:52:40 GMT
It is really frustrating in any relationship when we feel taken for granted, I am sorry you are dealing with that. I will say, gently -- you don't approve of your daughter. You don't approve of her work choices. You don't approve of her current priorities with respect to how she spends and funds her leisure time. You think she isn't a good friend to people and isn't responsible with her belongings. You think her girlfriend may be a phase. I get that you are venting, but I think most of us have trouble dealing with even people we love when we sense and/or know that they disagree with how we are living our life. None of that excuses her taking advantage of you to do things like take care of her dog, but relationships are a two-way street, and while you feel like she is being selfish, I wonder if on her end she thinks you don't really like or respect her. I was going to post something similar to this. Reading the OP I was starting to wonder, so do you like anything about your daughter? Your disapproval about pretty much everything is obvious. You don't like any of the choices she's making even though they sound perfectly reasonable for someone her age who is trying to find out who she is. You don't like that she didn't come home for Christmas, you don't like who she hangs out with, you don't like that she's a lesbian, you don't like her partner, you don't like her job, you don't like her friends, from your post you make it obvious that you don't like... anything about your daughter. I'm married to a child of a parent who disapproves of pretty much everything he's done. And I see the effect. He wants to have the father he deserves, but instead he has a father that is critical, disapproving and talks down to him about everything. His father can't accept that his son, my husband, has made a success of his life taking a path that is completely different than what was expected (required) from his father. And it makes my husband miserable at times, because he KNOWS that he can never be good enough for his father. And his father makes it plain without actually saying that. Bluntly, no wonder she doesn't want to be around you or have much to do with you. You've made it impossible to live up to your expectations and she realizes that no matter what she does, you're not going to like her or maybe even love her. I want my husband to basically cut off his father because he gets nothing positive out of chasing him for love and respect. My husband deserves better than the criticism that his father (and to be honest his mother as well) dishes at him no matter what happens or is said. And if my husband doesn't fall in line and do what the family expects, even with all this negativity, then he's criticized more. So really, fuck 'em. Cut them off. He deserves better. And I hope I can open his eyes to this and deprogram the bullshit disapproval his parents have instilled in him. So maybe stop being so sad for the child you want her to be and start accepting her for who she is and being happy that she is making her own way in the world as a full fledged individual instead of a clone. Ditto this. And I'll add, it pisses me off that you think providing your child an education is something that she owes you for. That's such bullshit. You are the parent. You bring kids into the world and you are responsible for educating them. And I believe this extends into college. And there are no strings. And they don' have to be grateful. It's like suggesting they owe you or should be grateful for feeding them dinner every night. You clearly don't like her, I don't blame her. I would stay far away from you.
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raindancer
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Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Apr 28, 2016 17:53:42 GMT
Well here is an interesting twist. I did a little googling out of curiosity and it appears that DDs gf has a young child (maybe 3 or 4). DD works with kids at one of her jobs and I had seen some pics of her with who is probably her gf's child a few time and I never thought much of it (course I didn't know she had a gf then). They didn't mention it to us and of course it wasn't something we asked when chatting. It is kind of sad that she didn't/wouldn't come talk to us but besides her being non-confrontational she doesn't like to talk about personal stuff at all. Yet her gf has full sleeve tattoos, bull ring piercing and dreadlocks. And we didn't bat an eye when meeting her. Groovy. At least after this visit DD didn't raid our cupboard and freezer and take a week's worth of groceries like she usually does. She certainly is growing up quickly, I guess. Sorry I'm just feeling all over with this whole deal and time will certainly help.... I doubt you need to say anything. You just radiate judgment.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 28, 2016 18:21:56 GMT
"You bring kids into the world and you are responsible for educating them. And I believe this extends into college. And there are no strings. And they don' have to be grateful. It's like suggesting they owe you or should be grateful for feeding them dinner every night."
^^^ you have to at least admit that this is a generalization because not everyone's family is like this. Plenty of families wash their hands of their kids when they're 18, or don't pay for their college (or CAN'T pay for their college), or pay it but it's a loan, etc. And there are plenty of kids who don't WANT that stuff-- they're eager to get out into the adult world and do things for themselves; some kids leave home as soon as they can; some kids become emancipated minors, etc. and it's because they want to.
ETA: Once I was out of college and working, I would never have thought to do any of those kinds of things: 'visit' my parents under the guise of them watching my dog for me so I could go off and do fun stuff on my own, raid their kitchen for a week's worth of groceries so I didn't have to shop; bring my laundry home instead of taking it to a Laundromat; or anything else like that. Doing that kind of thing is taking advantage of them, pure and simple.
Handling those things yourself is part of being an adult and having adult responsibilities. Period. In my opinion, doing that kind of thing as an adult (even to your parents) makes you a slacker who mooches off of someone else's hard work so you can spend your own money for the 'fun stuff' and is NOT acceptable.
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 8:27:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 18:25:43 GMT
ya, well I'm certainly not radiating sunshine and rainbows right now. Tell me I'm judgy or whatever you want. I'm venting and really, I'm not. I don't need to parade my gay friends past you to tell you I'm not, some of whom have been friends for 20+ years. I don't give two hoots about that but it wasn't what we expected or came to know from this kid (who dated exclusively men up to that point) until she texted me otherwise.
And I'm not sure where I said I had all of these paybacks and expectations back. It's just everything leading up to this point where all that is really pissing me off is to simply see my kid graduate from college. She said she was going to walk it (when she finished school in Dec). Takes me asking her about it and I am told it isn't important or enough of an achievement to walk and she'll do it when she gets her graduate degree. Just felt like a slap in the face.
Yep, we are raising these kids and I don't know....I think everyone here does the best they can and I thank all of you for taking the time to comment but I can say the one's who call me out as a POS parent or as judging....back at ya!!
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Post by STBC on Apr 28, 2016 18:29:43 GMT
Well here is an interesting twist. I did a little googling out of curiosity and it appears that DDs gf has a young child (maybe 3 or 4). DD works with kids at one of her jobs and I had seen some pics of her with who is probably her gf's child a few time and I never thought much of it (course I didn't know she had a gf then). They didn't mention it to us and of course it wasn't something we asked when chatting. It is kind of sad that she didn't/wouldn't come talk to us but besides her being non-confrontational she doesn't like to talk about personal stuff at all. Yet her gf has full sleeve tattoos, bull ring piercing and dreadlocks. And we didn't bat an eye when meeting her. Groovy.
At least after this visit DD didn't raid our cupboard and freezer and take a week's worth of groceries like she usually does. She certainly is growing up quickly, I guess. Sorry I'm just feeling all over with this whole deal and time will certainly help.... I doubt you need to say anything. You just radiate judgment. I agree. It's even in how you describe the gf.
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zella
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Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Apr 28, 2016 19:38:27 GMT
As the mom of two adult daughters both of whom have walked very different roads to what I wanted for them, I look at your post and see the positives.
Your dd graduated from HS, then graduated from college. That is great. Seriously. There are SO many ways to get derailed along that journey, and she didn't do so. Not going to a graduation ceremony is completely understandable to me; the ceremonies tend to be overly long and very boring. It wasn't important to her. I'm sorry it mattered to you, but it really was her choice.
She's living independently and working. That's great! Sure it isn't what you'd hoped, but she's doing it.
As far as the relationships go, why does it matter that she doesn't have one long relationship when she's so young? It sounds like she's trying to figure out who she is, and that's normal. Maybe she's gay. Maybe she's bi. Maybe something else. Ultimately it doesn't sound as though she's hurting anyone (other than hurting your feelings).
I do understand being upset about the ways in which she lacks sympathy, empathy and that she doesn't acknowledge the things you do for her. Hopefully as she matures, this will change. But in the meantime please know it could be so much worse. She's alive, healthy (I presume), working, not a drug addict, not fighting against mental illness, not a criminal, etc.
I don't mean for this post to seem judgmental, and I hope it doesn't. But I did want to give you a different way of looking at this. I wish either of my daughters had graduated college. I wish my younger one was well enough even to go. As parents we sometimes have to adjust our hopes and dreams for our kids and try to accept what we can't change.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Apr 28, 2016 19:40:02 GMT
OP - I think you need to just back off and let her navigate her adulthood. I think you're making a mountain out of the graduation. It's her accomplishment and her choice how she celebrates it... or not. The strings you are attaching to it (but I paid for it - I deserve to see her walk) are not going to help your relationship now nor in the future. It also makes me think your love and support come with a lot of strings attached. Maybe that's not the case, but that's how I read it here. You have to let her succeed and fail on her own. Stop enabling her ungrateful behavior. Or continue, but you can't ask for sympathy while enabling. Pushing them out of the best is hard. I'm there now. But I can't ask for sympathy if I'm part of the problem. If I've learned anything from the peas, PVM posts rarely turn out how the OP expects.
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Post by Chips on Apr 28, 2016 20:28:39 GMT
I would ask for a picture of her with her degree and some with the family. I'd even want to have her for a lunch or dinner to celebrate. From what you have said I am not certain that she actually graduated and would try to get confirmation of that!
Besides that, I think you have been extremely generous with her by paying for all of her college education and helping her out financially. It probably would of helped if you nipped her attitude in the bud while she was in college when you were paying for her education which is a very generous thing to do and many kids do not have parents who can do that. It makes me think she does not understand how lucky she was/is. If it was me I let her adult like the rest of us and she will come around to understanding how lucky she was.
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Post by twinks on Apr 28, 2016 20:34:38 GMT
I realize that you are venting. Often when I am venting about my DD, it is very hard to see anything positive about her. Vent and then continue to love her. She has some good qualities.
I know that forging a relationship from parent/child to adult/adult child is a difficult one. It is hard for parents to change and to let go sometimes. I use to say when my DD was younger that she would enter a new stage and I had just learned to navigate the stage she just left. I find myself navigating the adult/adult child relationship now and we have had some rough waters. Hopefully we both are learning.
Just somethings to consider: It is hard when you graduate and there are no ceremonies immediately following. It does take away some of the excitement. I didn't walk. Oh, is she accepted into graduate school and how is she going to pay for it?
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 8:27:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 20:48:22 GMT
We talk about this all the time at work--the generations coming in behind us are self centered-all about me, me, ME! They feel no loyalty or obligation to family, don't know what it is to make a sacrifice or go without, don't save money, no such thing as planning for their futures, get pissed if you (parents) don't "rescue" them or bail them out of a financial bind or loan them $$$, and it's the age of "Go Fund Me". They don't take anyone into consideration when making decisions except themselves and don't think through how their decisions affect others. Sweeping generalization much? Sounds likes what every generation says about the one after it. They are no worse than my generation or the generation before me. But ask the generation before me or before that, and we're all going to hell in a handbasket. Drives me crazy that people think that the younger generations are complete idiots, there are complete idiots in every generation but that doesn't mean that EVERY person of that generation is a complete idiot... complete idiots are definitely the minority. Hell, I know more people of the younger generation who have their shit together better than people of my generation. And my god, they are DRIVEN. It amazes me how these "kids" get stuff done and make something of themselves at such young ages. It's impressive. The other thing I find interesting is so many people say they want to give their kids a better life then they had it or just everything they can to give them a head start in life. Then when the child gets that better life, society calls them entitled?
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craftykitten
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Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Apr 28, 2016 20:56:17 GMT
IDK, you posted asking for advice, but I think all you want is validation. That's ok, it's what message boards are for sometimes, but you can't blame the people on here for looking at both sides of the situation. There seems to be a whole lot more going on here than just her refusal to take part in a grad ceremony.
I only have a couple of things to offer...if seeing her walking in a graduation ceremony was SO important to you - have you ever talked to her about it? Does she know how important it was to you? What do you expect to get from it - is it actually the thanks (which she could give to you privately, although frankly if you have got this far without her showing any gratitude then it's probably a bit late to change anything). Or is it the public validation of all the money you spent on her education?
Maybe my point is: you can't change her. You can only change your responses, so perhaps thinking about WHY some of this stuff matters to you so much will help you figure out what the real problem is and how you can go forward in happiness.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 28, 2016 21:01:57 GMT
As I have said before - we give our children roots and wings. The roots take longer, but the wings are much harder. She has to make her own decisions, and her own mistakes, or she will not continue to grow. As parents, we don't always agree with those decisions, but it's not our call. Unless there is a life-threatening situation, the parents need to stay out of it. However, if gratitude, appreciation and manners are important to you and your family - then those things should be insisted upon. If you loan money/do favors, a thank you should be expressed - or don't do the favor again. You really have to figure out what is important to you as a mom/family, and pick those battles. Lots of tongue-biting goes on for parents of young adults--just think what we put our parents through! Hugs - it's not easy. Very well said! It seems like often parents goals and dreams are not the same as their childrens. Not every child is going to grow into a high earner or top achiever. Having a 34 yr old and a 26 yr old, I know that it took them a while to find themselves and decide where they wanted to go with their lives. My ds even gave up his apartment once and lived in his car. I never understood that decision and I could have never done that. But he did it and now that he is older he has grown up and owns his own house. Not all of my kids decisions are something I understand, but it is their lives and they need to do what they want. In regards to the loan of money. I would only give one loan at a time, if either of my kids still owed me money, they didn't get any more until that was paid off. It only took once telling each of them no for them to understand and respect that rule.
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 8:27:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:16:19 GMT
As for the grad ceremony I know they aren't fun, but it was that she had told us she would walk the therefore we would be there to watch. It's a reason to celebrate and I think it is a big accomplishment for her. Otherwise we could have celebrated at Christms....oh but that's right she didn't come home because she was mad we didn't do more for her with her car. Honestly, idk if she actually did graduate. DH has been asking me that for a few months and we are just going on her word.
I didn't know she had a plan for grad school at all yet. She still was I don't know a few weeks ago, then when she texted me that she would walk for grad school since that would be more important/bigger accomplishment. She's always known we are just funding the undergrad degree. She had a good job opportunity a few months ago that didn't come through. She made it sound to me she thought it was a pretty sure thing pending her drug test.....that she was putting off taking. I didn't ask and she didn't volunteer why she ultimately didn't get it. She hasn't had any interest in looking for more jobs....a main criteria is that they have to be in areas where she can readily participate in her sports so she had limited herself to very narrow locations.
We are still paying for a few things (cell phone and car ins) and it is probably time to transition that all to her in the near future. She hasn't really felt any duty to come home to be part of family events unless there was a benefit to her (usually shopping or we can take her to events).
We'll never stop loving her and when it goes to long without visiting one of us ends up sending an I miss you msg. Unfortunately she has a long track record of not wanting to discuss or argue and then she'll just pop in and pretends like nothing happened which is total opposite of me. Rest of my kids have no problem tangling with mom once in while though!
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 28, 2016 21:18:51 GMT
We talk about this all the time at work--the generations coming in behind us are self centered-all about me, me, ME! They feel no loyalty or obligation to family, don't know what it is to make a sacrifice or go without, don't save money, no such thing as planning for their futures, get pissed if you (parents) don't "rescue" them or bail them out of a financial bind or loan them $$$, and it's the age of "Go Fund Me".They don't take anyone into consideration when making decisions except themselves and don't think through how their decisions affect others. I'd be long past being over this situation--to be told I'm not coming home at Christmas because I need a break from you (as a parent) would have been my last straw. She's an adult. So let her adult! As for the new gf, regardless of how you feel, she might manipulate how her acceptance is perceived towards others if she doesn't get her way because she's shown that behavior before. So be who you are because it's likely not going to matter anyway! As for confrontation and losing your shit with her, over the other stuff--tell her she's an adult and it's high time she starts getting on being one! I see it differently as someone raising (or in a flux of parenting) a 19 and 22 year old. I know their friends and many are not like this. Some, sure, but many are not. We hear about the ones who work hard, pay for their own things because their parents (my age) are a mess or in a bind, and they absolutely love their grandparents. They spend time with them and take care of them. My kids aren't perfect, but they appreciate what they have. They aren't as expressive about their thanks, but they do look us in the eye and say thank you for many things including me making them dinner at night. When they were younger, we took things away from them if they weren't thankful and that might have helped. I remember reading years ago that a person's brain is not fully formed until they are 25. The part of the brain that understands consequences is the last to form. At first I kind of thought that was bs because I was married at 21 and had my poop in a group. But now I completely see that it is true. I think your daughter is in a selfish stage and she might be trying to do things that will tick you off (mission accomplished). I think it is fair to tell her that she is an adult and you spent X amount of money to prepare her to earn more money than she is. Tell her you love her unconditionally, but your money is now tied up with raising your other children. I remember my dad telling me that I was really lucky that my parents loved me because I was awfully hard to like. He said this very calmly after my teenage mouth told him that it was hard to live with someone I hated. Ugh. I just wanted to get to him. Kids are asses sometimes. They are still going through stages. Personally, I would talk to someone about finding ways to calm yourself down mentally. I know you aren't going off on her, but when dealing with a kid who knows how to push your buttons, it could help. Best of luck.
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Post by elaine on Apr 28, 2016 21:40:50 GMT
At 53, my perspective is a little different. DH and I are the same age. I lived my college years through grad school at 24 pretty wild. I traveled. I followed the Grateful Dead in my VW bus for a while. I lived in Hawaii and got a job as a cocktail waitress and tried to transfer to U of H. I lived in Paris as an Au pair and then traveled for a month around Europe.
My mom was fine with all of that and kept me on her health and auto insurance. Cell phones didn't exist. I did graduate college (with some support) and then went on to graduate school - on my own dime - and got a PhD. Grad school demanded so much that my lifestyle changed dramatically. But I still traveled a bit.
My husband had a very straight laced focused life until we met. Went to college with one semester abroad. Didn't travel besides that. Didn't stay up all night at parties. Didn't go to concerts. Didn't go hot tubbing all night at Big Sur as a dorm activity (which I did several times).
And now that our youth is far behind us, he is envious of me and I don't regret those days one minute.I have had amazing experiences and memories to last a lifetime and my husband is left wishing he did a lot of things before he got a career, got married, and had kids. One of our kids will never be able to leave our house due to his disabilities. If I could, I would love for my husband to be able to go back in time and do all that stuff that you can do before kids and career weigh you down.
I thank heavens that my mom supported my wild youth - I think she even lived a bit vicariously through me. She was a single parent - my dad died when I was 9 - and didn't do much besides support my sister and me. We are still close - she even flew out from Los Angeles twice in the past year to help me with my eye surgeries as my husband has to take care of the kids when I am doing the surgery and recovery thing.
Your daughter is young. Let her enjoy life while she doesn't have the commitments of career and family. There is plenty of time to anchor herself in the future. While you paid for her degree - a big thing, don't get me wrong - she did the studying and work to earn it. There are plenty of parents out there who have spent as much money as you in tuition and their kids never earned their degrees. Let her celebrate and mark it the way she sees fit. If you want her to thank you, then simply ask.
I think much of your anger is misplaced on her when it should be on yourself. If you feel used and abused over and over again and haven't said anything, that is on you, not on her. If you haven't asked her to thank you for whatever when you feel you deserve it, that is on you, not on her, when you feel angry for weeks, months, years later. She isn't going to magically read your mind someday and know that you are seething inside because she doesn't give you the gratitude you think you deserve.
So, while she should probably say thank you more often, you should have started long ago telling her to say it instead of bottling it all in and getting angry at her instead of at yourself for allowing yourself to be treated as a doormat/refrigerator/pantry.
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Post by NanaKate on Apr 28, 2016 21:42:22 GMT
OP - I get it... (((HUGS)))
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 28, 2016 21:49:06 GMT
Was she taught to say thank-you for gifts,etc? Have you discussed her lack of appreciation for all that you've done for her? If not, I think you should now or you will be resentful for a long time. Honestly I think that ship has sailed. If she wasn't taught and encouraged to be gracious and thankful when she was very young it sure isn't likely to click with her now that she's 20-something.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 28, 2016 22:45:10 GMT
Ditto this. And I'll add, it pisses me off that you think providing your child an education is something that she owes you for. That's such bullshit. You are the parent. You bring kids into the world and you are responsible for educating them. And I believe this extends into college. And there are no strings. And they don' have to be grateful. It's like suggesting they owe you or should be grateful for feeding them dinner every night. You clearly don't like her, I don't blame her. I would stay far away from you. I have to respectfully disagree. College is EXPENSIVE and these days it truly is a privilege to be able to go at all. If a person happens to be lucky enough to have parents that offer to fund all or even a part of it, that is a bonus and that person should be grateful. Many people are unable to afford to put their kids through college and it simply isn't an option. When a student is given the gift of a post secondary education they DO owe their parents something, and that something is gratitude. There are plenty of people who would give anything for that kind of opportunity and they would be thankful for it. Believe it or not, I do encourage my kid to thank her dad for a nice dinner and remind her that there are many, many kids who go without. We're blessed and lucky and need to never forget that.
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Post by sunraynnc on Apr 28, 2016 23:06:59 GMT
I will validate you.
You paid $100k for a degree and all you asked in return is to let you celebrate her. She also is not keeping her word that she would walk. Sometimes you suck it up for people you love. DD should learn that. She doesn't sound like a happy, loving free-spirt like Elaine. She sounds like someone that is hard for not only you, but other people to get along with.
Cut. The. Money. (& favors) Keep her on your health insurance and cell phone but let her know the monthly amounts. She needs to pay her own car insurance. If she can afford to participate in extreme sports, then she can plan for the co-pays. Don't dog sit: let her figure out its care. (If she is still such a dependent, she shouldn't HAVE a dependent.) I agree with one loan at a time as well. Also, putting in "orders" at Christmas and then not even showing up is BS.
There is an old saying, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." If she can't be decent to you, stop giving.
Her romantic relationship does not sound mature at all. She's got something to prove or is trying to get a rise out of you. I say that because she's never given you any indication that she questioned her orientation.
I hope she is going through a selfish stage and maybe she will wake up. She can follow her bliss on her own dime.
I think you sound like an awesome mom: you have busted your ass to pay for an expensive education for her, given her help and favors at every turn such as ER visits and dog sitting, loaned money, welcomed her friends in your home and loved her when she was unlovable.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,011
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 28, 2016 23:28:27 GMT
I guess my biggest question is what you have communicated to her? Have you told her you expect her to show gratitude? Have you said that you paid $100K for her education and you expect her to walk (something I don't agree with btw but that's my opinion, not yours.) Have you confronted her when she failed to say thank you for things? Did you object when she raided your groceries? Have you told her that you resent being expected to take her out to expensive meals and events when she comes home to visit? Have you explained that you do not want to be responsible for the dog when she needs a dog sitter? I'm sensing a lot of passivity on your part but maybe you actually have communicated these things and just left that part out.
In my part of the world, her sexual orientation would be a non-issue. I don't even think that it's accurate to say it's a hard road anymore - unless you live in the bible belt or some parts of Utah, the world has changed. But if I knew my mom was talking about my SO in the derisive way you have here, I would be devastated and very unlikely to share that part of my life with her anymore.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Apr 28, 2016 23:31:09 GMT
Ditto this. And I'll add, it pisses me off that you think providing your child an education is something that she owes you for. That's such bullshit. You are the parent. You bring kids into the world and you are responsible for educating them. And I believe this extends into college. And there are no strings. And they don' have to be grateful. It's like suggesting they owe you or should be grateful for feeding them dinner every night. You clearly don't like her, I don't blame her. I would stay far away from you. I have to respectfully disagree. College is EXPENSIVE and these days it truly is a privilege to be able to go at all. If a person happens to be lucky enough to have parents that offer to fund all or even a part of it, that is a bonus and that person should be grateful. Many people are unable to afford to put their kids through college and it simply isn't an option. When a student is given the gift of a post secondary education they DO owe their parents something, and that something is gratitude. There are plenty of people who would give anything for that kind of opportunity and they would be thankful for it. Believe it or not, I do encourage my kid to thank her dad for a nice dinner and remind her that there are many, many kids who go without. We're blessed and lucky and need to never forget that. I suspect that for the OP nothing short of groveling would do. Being thankful is one thing, owing your parents forever for them giving you the gift of education is crap. We can agree to disagree. I think of you can afford it then you owe that to your child. Period. You brought them into the world and you should expect to educate them to the fullest extent that you are able, and you should do so without expectation other than they live a life in which they do not burden society. Just as you should feed and clothe them. Turning 18 does not, imo, absolve parents of the duty and obligation of parenting. Lording shit over their heads forever because they aren't thanking you the way you want or living the exact way you think they should is ridiculous. I get the impression that this poor woman can't please her mother no matter what she does so she has given up trying. Who can be her?
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