cakediva
Drama Llama
Making the world a sweeter place one cake at a time!
Posts: 7,463 
Location: Fergus, Ontario
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Post by cakediva on May 18, 2016 22:34:49 GMT
This is a hot topic here right now. Our Government has a bill on the table to allow people to have the right to die with dignity.
My understanding is that this is completely different than euthanasia.
Somebody on a local Facebook page is linking articles to how many are "killed" in Belguim outside of the rules, and other such info.
I'd really like to know if any of it has solid ground, or if she's linking pumped up stories from not really reliable sources.
For the record - I want to have the decision for ME. I'm of the thought that, while yes, many Christians believe this to be SO wrong, and are pushing for the bill to be stopped. But that is taking away my right to die with dignity if I have a terminal illness. But if the bill goes through, they don't have to make the choice to do it if they don't believe it is right.
But are there reliable sources out there that can give me some concrete info??
ETA - I didn't mean for this to become a debate of for and against the issue. I just wanted some concrete articles and studies that weren't printed in a less that reliable news source so I had good info to back me up if I decided to wade in and answer her.
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 23:16:59 GMT
Physician-assisted suicide is legal in Oregon and I am glad it is. I don't know about Belgium, but you can find all kinds of data about how the law has gone in Oregon here. (Spoiler alert: it's working as intended and there's really no controversy about it.) |
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 23:42:06 GMT
The assisted suicide laws in Belgium are extremely liberal and include provisions for people who are depressed and children. I'm not entirely sure what she means by people being 'killed outside the rules' as their rules aren't overly restrictive.
Which is neither here nor there when talking about the proposed Canadian law. Our law would apply to mentally competent Canadian citizens, 18-years-old and older, who are 'suffering intolerably' from incurable illnesses or disabilities, whose deaths are 'reasonably foreseeable'. The guidelines are strict with little wiggle room.
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,428
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Post by luvnlifelady on May 18, 2016 23:53:29 GMT
There was a woman recently that moved from CA to Oregon so she could take a pill when it came time (she was suffering from a terminal brain tumor). I'm all for it. I think it is either coming to CA or has already passed. DH is Catholic so doubt would support it, but to me, if I'm stricken by something and have a terribly painful and expensive future ahead with no good outcome predicted, I'd like the option to check out early.
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MsKnit
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RefuPea #1406
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Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on May 18, 2016 23:56:29 GMT
I have no idea about the situation in Belgium.
However, I am all for allowing people to have the choice to die with dignity. I think it is cruel and inhumane to expect terminal patients to suffer bitterly until 'their time.' That's bullshit!
At present, the laws seem to only favor people who are terminal. I want them to go further. I've been dealing with chronic pain for over 10 years now. I'm doing well for the time being. Have a lot of fight in me. However, I am terrified of what the future may hold. I may never need it and hope I don't. But, I want the option to go peacefully when if I have reached the tipping point.
It's like every thing else, if you don't agree with the decision of physician assisted suicide, you don't need to partake of that benefit. But, for pity's sake, let people who choose to do so have the option.
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cakediva
Drama Llama
Making the world a sweeter place one cake at a time!
Posts: 7,463
Location: Fergus, Ontario
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Post by cakediva on May 18, 2016 23:56:59 GMT
The assisted suicide laws in Belgium are extremely liberal and include provisions for people who are depressed and children. I'm not entirely sure what she means by people being 'killed outside the rules' as their rules aren't overly restrictive. Which is neither here nor there when talking about the proposed Canadian law. Our law would apply to mentally competent Canadian citizens, 18-years-old and older, who are 'suffering intolerably' from incurable illnesses or disabilities, whose deaths are 'reasonably foreseeable'. The guidelines are strict with little wiggle room. She linked this article: Belgian GPs "killing" patientsAnd I'd like to have proper information before commenting on any of it! |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 23:59:44 GMT
The assisted suicide laws in Belgium are extremely liberal and include provisions for people who are depressed and children. I'm not entirely sure what she means by people being 'killed outside the rules' as their rules aren't overly restrictive. Which is neither here nor there when talking about the proposed Canadian law. Our law would apply to mentally competent Canadian citizens, 18-years-old and older, who are 'suffering intolerably' from incurable illnesses or disabilities, whose deaths are 'reasonably foreseeable'. The guidelines are strict with little wiggle room. She linked this article: Belgian GPs "killing" patientsAnd I'd like to have proper information before commenting on any of it! Daily Mail is a rag. |
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cakediva
Drama Llama
Making the world a sweeter place one cake at a time!
Posts: 7,463
Location: Fergus, Ontario
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Post by cakediva on May 19, 2016 0:02:25 GMT
Thank you! I wasn't sure, but I thought it was.....this gal is on a crusade and protesting left right and centre. I mostly just ignore - she's not a personal friend, but sometimes those group discussions can just drive me nuts and I want to comment! |
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 19, 2016 0:02:54 GMT
There was a woman recently that moved from CA to Oregon so she could take a pill when it came time (she was suffering from a terminal brain tumor). I'm all for it. I think it is either coming to CA or has already passed. DH is Catholic so doubt would support it, but to me, if I'm stricken by something and have a terribly painful and expensive future ahead with no good outcome predicted, I'd like the option to check out early. It has passed in California and goes into effect June 9. You have to be within six months of dying, approved by two physicians, and capable of taking the medications independently. |
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
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Post by katybee on May 19, 2016 0:06:51 GMT
We treat our pets better than we treat ourselves in this regard... Why?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 0:38:29 GMT
The assisted suicide laws in Belgium are extremely liberal and include provisions for people who are depressed and children. I'm not entirely sure what she means by people being 'killed outside the rules' as their rules aren't overly restrictive. Which is neither here nor there when talking about the proposed Canadian law. Our law would apply to mentally competent Canadian citizens, 18-years-old and older, who are 'suffering intolerably' from incurable illnesses or disabilities, whose deaths are 'reasonably foreseeable'. The guidelines are strict with little wiggle room. She linked this article: Belgian GPs "killing" patientsAnd I'd like to have proper information before commenting on any of it! The law regarding this in Belgium is far more stringent than some of the reports that you can find out there. Yes they do allow " depressed" patients to end their own life but it is tightly controlled and two Dr's are needed, one being totally independent who will review the request. A month has to pass after the review and the report submitted by the second Dr before they will allow the patient to end their life. Children do not make this decision on their own they have to have their parents consent. If you want an unbiased opinion here is the official legislation that was passed in Belgium |
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 0:59:26 GMT
It wasn't their opinion though, They were reporting on a study that was made by Professor Raphael Cohen-Almagor made last year. He's also written a book "The Right to Die with Dignity: An Argument in Ethics, Medicine, and Law" He's an Israeli professor of Politics at a North of England University. He's also a researcher, human rights and peace activist. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 19, 2016 1:15:51 GMT
I'm totally radical on this subject. I think our entire approach to end of life is flawed. Death isn't the enemy - we're all going to die. Premature death, painful death - those are the enemy. I think too often we straight up torture people on this misguided notion that we're going to cheat death. I have had wonderful experiences with relatives who have went into remission from stage 4 cancer diagnosis - so I'm by no means anti-medicine. But I've also watched long, drawn out, painful deaths where everyone knew there was no hope for recovery and months were spent in needless treatment and pain. I don't want that - I've made that 100% clear to my husband and in my living will. Having also seen Alzheimer's up close and personal - I told my husband that if I'm ever diagnosed - I want absolutely no treatment for any disease/illness. I don't care how curable the illness. If it will hasten my death and prevent me and my family from experiencing the full cycle of Alzheimer's - it's a blessing.
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Post by refugeepea on May 19, 2016 1:23:41 GMT
My grandmother suffered for over a decade before she passed away. She always said if you can put old dogs down, why can't I have that choice? I think senior citizens should be able to choose too.
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 1:41:00 GMT
I watched my Dad slowly wither for 3 months from the chemotherapy treatments he took for lung cancer. I watched my sister take 15 days to die after going into a coma from liver failure. I believe in God. I believe in the right to chose to die. What happens in my afterlife is between me and God and no one else.
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Post by mlynn on May 19, 2016 1:58:32 GMT
My problem with physician assisted suicide is that you do not need a physician's assistance. You can commit suicide with Tylenol, for Pete's sake! A PP posted about pain. If you are receiving pain meds, it is easy to use them for this purpose. And there are many other meds that can be used.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 19, 2016 2:47:39 GMT
My problem with physician assisted suicide is that you do not need a physician's assistance. You can commit suicide with Tylenol, for Pete's sake! A PP posted about pain. If you are receiving pain meds, it is easy to use them for this purpose. And there are many other meds that can be used. You can kill yourself with Tylenol if you want to go through the long, drawn-out agony of liver failure. That's a completely naive thing to say. Even an overdose of pain meds could result in failure due to vomiting or dosing. The combination of drugs used in death with dignity cases are designed for minimal discomfort and optimal efficacy at ending a person's life. You actually do need a physician's assistance if those are your goals. |
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 2:50:28 GMT
My problem with physician assisted suicide is that you do not need a physician's assistance. You can commit suicide with Tylenol, for Pete's sake! A PP posted about pain. If you are receiving pain meds, it is easy to use them for this purpose. And there are many other meds that can be used. You can kill yourself with Tylenol if you want to go through the long, drawn-out agony of liver failure. That's a completely naive thing to say. Even an overdose of pain meds could result in failure due to vomiting or dosing. The combination of drugs used in death with dignity cases are designed for minimal discomfort and optimal efficacy at ending a person's life. You actually do need a physician's assistance if those are your goals. I don't think she was necessarily recommending suicide by Tylenol. |
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 19, 2016 3:00:31 GMT
You can kill yourself with Tylenol if you want to go through the long, drawn-out agony of liver failure. That's a completely naive thing to say. Even an overdose of pain meds could result in failure due to vomiting or dosing. The combination of drugs used in death with dignity cases are designed for minimal discomfort and optimal efficacy at ending a person's life. You actually do need a physician's assistance if those are your goals. I don't think she was necessarily recommending suicide by Tylenol. I took her comment to mean "why do you need a doctor?" and I was pointing out that your failure to successfully die could lead to much more suffering. You need a physician to help you so that this type of error doesn't occur. |
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Deleted
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Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 3:11:05 GMT
I don't think she was necessarily recommending suicide by Tylenol. I took her comment to mean "why do you need a doctor?" and I was pointing out that your failure to successfully die could lead to much more suffering. You need a physician to help you so that this type of error doesn't occur. I took her comment to mean that, too, and I also understood why you typed yours. I think you're both right. |
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theshyone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,411
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Post by theshyone on May 19, 2016 4:21:00 GMT
It's already happening. As it should be.
Right to to die with dignity is essential to maintaining humanity.
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theshyone
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by theshyone on May 19, 2016 4:22:23 GMT
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theshyone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,411
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Post by theshyone on May 19, 2016 4:23:12 GMT
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Post by miominmio on May 19, 2016 4:44:33 GMT
It's a difficult subject, and after a lang time, I have come to the conclusion that I am against it.
Death is a natural part of life (and most are in a coma towards the end), and my impression is that present day humans have a need to control every aspect of their lives...including their deaths. And it is a slippery slope....will we end up with a society where those who are sick, impaired or dying are expected to kill themselves? (Just like society was like hundreds of years ago?) Why not spend more money on helping those who wants to die get a peaceful, but natural end to their lives? (Chosing not to receive treatment that will prolong life, is another matter).
And for those who say "we treat our animals better". I have seen many animals being put to sleep over the years...and in several instances it has not been quick and/or painless.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 19, 2016 4:58:09 GMT
It's a difficult subject, and after a lang time, I have come to the conclusion that I am against it. Death is a natural part of life (and most are in a coma towards the end), and my impression is that present day humans have a need to control every aspect of their lives...including their deaths. And it is a slippery slope....will we end up with a society where those who are sick, impaired or dying are expected to kill themselves? (Just like society was like hundreds of years ago?) Why not spend more money on helping those who wants to die get a peaceful, but natural end to their lives? (Chosing not to receive treatment that will prolong life, is another matter). And for those who say "we treat our animals better". I have seen many animals being put to sleep over the years...and in several instances it has not been quick and/or painless. This is a very personal decision. I don't expect everyone to feel the same. I work in oncology and have seen a lot of end stage disease. No thank you. Losing the fundamental things that constitute my idea of quality of life is not for me. Certain symptoms or processes can't be alleviated at all. No money can help at that point. I have exercised the opportunity to euthanize my dog because it would relieve her suffering. I have already made my wishes very clear to my family about medical intervention that I find unacceptable for myself, and if I'm in a situation where I have the time to make this plan with my doctor, I will. I am grateful that I live in a state where this is legal. I don't think this will become the societal norm or expected of all sick people. I think this will always be a personal choice. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 17:24:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 5:05:34 GMT
It's a difficult subject, and after a lang time, I have come to the conclusion that I am against it. Death is a natural part of life (and most are in a coma towards the end), and my impression is that present day humans have a need to control every aspect of their lives...including their deaths. And it is a slippery slope....will we end up with a society where those who are sick, impaired or dying are expected to kill themselves? (Just like society was like hundreds of years ago?) Why not spend more money on helping those who wants to die get a peaceful, but natural end to their lives? (Chosing not to receive treatment that will prolong life, is another matter). And for those who say "we treat our animals better". I have seen many animals being put to sleep over the years...and in several instances it has not been quick and/or painless. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as far as the slippery slope argument goes, we have had physician-assisted suicide in Oregon for almost 20 years now. The rules haven't substantively changed and only 132 people availed themselves of the option in 2015 (though 218 people received prescriptions for lethal drugs in 2015, not all of them chose to follow through).
Doesnt seem like much of a slippery slope to me. |
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 19, 2016 5:28:05 GMT
Having watched a dear friend go from running 5 or 6 marathons a year to being unable to swallow, in a space of 4 years because of motor neurone disease I am all for it. He begged to be put out of his misery.
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theshyone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,411
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Post by theshyone on May 19, 2016 11:42:04 GMT
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Post by tlsmi on May 19, 2016 11:55:09 GMT
My Mom suffered for months and montgs with terminal cancer. The cancer came 'outside her body' via open painful wounds. Hospice basically overdosed her on morphine to shut down her organs to end her life. What's the difference if hospice does it or another physician?
Don't misunderstand, her local hospice nurses were angels on earth, but that it exactly what they did and it was explained to us beforehand.
My cousin on her blog ranted about assisted suicide. That it was against God's will. Murder is a sin and that includes self-murder. That end of life suffering teaches us 'lessons', makes our journey 'richer'.
I wanted to reply 'go f#ck yourelf'.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 19, 2016 12:27:08 GMT
It's a difficult subject, and after a lang time, I have come to the conclusion that I am against it. Death is a natural part of life (and most are in a coma towards the end), and my impression is that present day humans have a need to control every aspect of their lives...including their deaths. And it is a slippery slope....will we end up with a society where those who are sick, impaired or dying are expected to kill themselves? (Just like society was like hundreds of years ago?) Why not spend more money on helping those who wants to die get a peaceful, but natural end to their lives? (Chosing not to receive treatment that will prolong life, is another matter). And for those who say "we treat our animals better". I have seen many animals being put to sleep over the years...and in several instances it has not been quick and/or painless. I respect that, I guess, but why shouldn't humans be able to have control over their own deaths? It's their pain after all. |
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