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Post by chaosisapony on May 30, 2016 5:24:34 GMT
I see now a bunch of Facebook "experts" (people with an internet connection) are posting clips of the video saying the gorilla was trying to save the boy from drowning.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 30, 2016 5:26:33 GMT
I am slowly coming around to the idea that keeping animals in captivity for our amusement should be reconsidered. I live in San Diego and hear so much about this and sea world. I think Sea World is a different story. It's purely for entertainment and more akin to the circus. I think zoos are more like museums.
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Post by dealsamongus on May 30, 2016 5:27:36 GMT
I live in San Diego and hear so much about this and sea world. I think Sea World is a different story. It's purely for entertainment and more akin to the circus. I think zoos are more like museums. I am so on the fence about this hearing both sides all the time..
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 30, 2016 11:21:08 GMT
Without knowing the entire story, I don't think blame can be immediately placed on the parent(s). 3 year olds are wiley, determined, fast-moving little people. It is a shame that the gorilla had to be killed, but the safety of the child was more important. There are plenty of times where I have seen parents not paying attention to their kids in public places, but without knowing what exactly happened here, I am not going to jump to judge the parents. If 3 or 4 year olds are that wiley and determined then they need better, constant minding. Yes, I am putting the blame squarely on the parents for not having enough adults to mind all the children in their party. This was not a simple, one layer barrier to get through. That's some serious neglect if your kid has time to disappear, get through all those layers into the enclosure. This gorilla had to die because no one bothered to mind the kid who, as you described, is out of control and can't be left alone for a second. I'm tired of hearing "oh we can't blame the parents" when stories like this come out. Yes, we can. How come an exhibit like this can exist for decades and no other brat has gotten in, but this one does and "we can't blame the parents"? The woman was in over her head and (honestly?) really stupid for bringing SIX kids to the zoo without ensuring there was enough supervision for the group. I'm seriously tired of giving people passes for stupidity of their own making.
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Post by anxiousmom on May 30, 2016 11:35:08 GMT
I have an escape artist kid. I lost him one time at Disney while holding his hand-he was an absolute ninja when it came to slipping away. He would have been that kid who snuck into a zoo enclosure. Because of how good he was at slipping away, there were all kinds of things that I had to do keep him close. Zoos were one of the most stressful places for me because I had to almost glue the kid to me. What really didn't help was that there are always petting areas within the zoo and as a little kid, he never could understand why it was okay to pet and feed the goats and not be able to pet and feed the panthers.
I am sorry the kid worked his way into the enclosure. I am sorry the person who was in charge in of him fell down on their job to keep track of the kid. I am sorry that the gorilla got shot.
Seems like a horrible situation all the way around.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 11:51:55 GMT
It just seems like they could have figured out some other way. Too many times lately, the quick answer seems to be...kill the innocent animal. My thoughts too but the gun was far to handy to even attempt to rescue him any other way. They managed to distract the two females so why not the male? Such a sad,sad ending to such a beautiful intelligent animal. Such a different outcome than what happened at a Jersey Zoo some 30 years ago. The Gorilla,the boy and the rescue men all lived to tell the tale
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on May 30, 2016 12:05:26 GMT
I see now a bunch of Facebook "experts" (people with an internet connection) are posting clips of the video saying the gorilla was trying to save the boy from drowning. There have been instances of gorillas saving a child and I doubt that his initial intent was harm.... But people were screaming... The child was screaming and it was pretty apparent that Harambe was getting agitated. And a gorilla is a very powerful animal. He doesn't have to intend harm to cause harm to a child. He was also a young male with no parenting experience. I, myself, am heartsick over this. I volunteer at my zoo (docent for 8 years - not Cincy but I have been there many times) and I love these animals. I also know that kids can get away in just a moment of distraction. I am so grateful that our gorillas are behind glass or bars to keep the public away from them. That doesn't mean that I haven't caught a guest reaching over and trying to give a gorilla food ( told me they knew the keeper and it was ok... Uh... No!). And another docent came upon a visitor trying to hand a gorilla a lit cigarette! But my best story is the day I had been showing pictures and things to a young gorilla ( through the glass). . When I left, she reached through the bars as I walked by, holding out a clover flower to me. I so wanted to take it... But didn't dare.
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TankTop
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1,871
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Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on May 30, 2016 12:06:45 GMT
Interesting that his happened this week.
Last week I took my son to our local zoo. It is well respected, a larger zoo. My 16dd is very against animals in captivity. She refused to go. After watching Blackfish and several other documentaries with her I looked at the zoo that day in a new way.
My friend and I specifically were looking at how small the exhibits were. How little room to roam. I can see how any new stimulus would be very interesting to an animal. So interesting that recall attempts would be impossible.
We also were shocked by how easy it would have been for us to enter most exhibits with the animals. It would not have taken much effort at all.
I do believe that was my last zoo trip. New eyes and a new perspective.
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Post by littlemama on May 30, 2016 12:09:08 GMT
Without knowing the entire story, I don't think blame can be immediately placed on the parent(s). 3 year olds are wiley, determined, fast-moving little people. It is a shame that the gorilla had to be killed, but the safety of the child was more important. There are plenty of times where I have seen parents not paying attention to their kids in public places, but without knowing what exactly happened here, I am not going to jump to judge the parents. If 3 or 4 year olds are that wiley and determined then they need better, constant minding. Yes, I am putting the blame squarely on the parents for not having enough adults to mind all the children in their party. This was not a simple, one layer barrier to get through. That's some serious neglect if your kid has time to disappear, get through all those layers into the enclosure. This gorilla had to die because no one bothered to mind the kid who, as you described, is out of control and can't be left alone for a second. I'm tired of hearing "oh we can't blame the parents" when stories like this come out. Yes, we can. How come an exhibit like this can exist for decades and no other brat has gotten in, but this one does and "we can't blame the parents"? The woman was in over her head and (honestly?) really stupid for bringing SIX kids to the zoo without ensuring there was enough supervision for the group. I'm seriously tired of giving people passes for stupidity of their own making. I didn't give anyone a "pass"-I said that without knowing the entire story, I was unwilling to pass judgement.
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Post by lovetodigi on May 30, 2016 12:11:03 GMT
I've never been to the Cincinatti Zoo. Those that have--how easy/hard is it to get through the barriers? It sounded like the kid went through an obstacle course before falling in, but I'm curious how easy it really is. I read in one of the articles that the exhibit has been open for 38 years and this is the first incident. Makes me sad. I went to that zoo many, many times, the last being in 2010. Never once did I see anything that made me concerned that someone could get into an exhibit or that an animal could get out of one.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 9,975
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on May 30, 2016 12:14:25 GMT
The whole thing is sad. Start to finish.
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Post by Leone on May 30, 2016 12:19:42 GMT
Makes me feel a little better that Im not the only one who questions the role of the parent in this tragedy. The news never brought up this side of it. I still feel sad.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on May 30, 2016 12:21:01 GMT
It just seems like they could have figured out some other way. Too many times lately, the quick answer seems to be...kill the innocent animal. My thoughts too but the gun was far to handy to even attempt to rescue him any other way. They managed to distract the two females so why not the male? Such a sad,sad ending to such a beautiful intelligent animal. Such a different outcome than what happened at a Jersey Zoo some 30 years ago. The Gorilla,the boy and the rescue men all lived to tell the taleNo! The gun was a last resort! And, unfortunately, Harambe was not retreating, don't you think that his keepers loved him and did everything they could to avoid the shooting ?! If not, you have very little understanding of the work that keepers do. They don't just throw in food and clean up poop. They form a real connection with the animals in their care as evidenced by many reports of the reunions of animal and keeper after the keeper or the animal has had to move away
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on May 30, 2016 12:23:23 GMT
If 3 or 4 year olds are that wiley and determined then they need better, constant minding. Yes, I am putting the blame squarely on the parents for not having enough adults to mind all the children in their party. This was not a simple, one layer barrier to get through. That's some serious neglect if your kid has time to disappear, get through all those layers into the enclosure. This gorilla had to die because no one bothered to mind the kid who, as you described, is out of control and can't be left alone for a second. I'm tired of hearing "oh we can't blame the parents" when stories like this come out. Yes, we can. How come an exhibit like this can exist for decades and no other brat has gotten in, but this one does and "we can't blame the parents"? The woman was in over her head and (honestly?) really stupid for bringing SIX kids to the zoo without ensuring there was enough supervision for the group. I'm seriously tired of giving people passes for stupidity of their own making. I didn't give anyone a "pass"-I said that without knowing the entire story, I was unwilling to pass judgement. What else is there to know? Woman goes to zoo with a ridiculous amount of children and guarantees poorly supervised children. Child in question repeatedly said that he wanted to go into the enclosure. Woman ignored that and chose to pay attention to other children. "Wiley" and "determined" child takes opportunity of being ignored to do what he wants and creates a chain of events where an endangered gorilla is killed. I can't fathom what else we need to know.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,710
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on May 30, 2016 12:38:16 GMT
I am slowly coming around to the idea that keeping animals in captivity for our amusement should be reconsidered. I've been this way for many, many years. I will not visit zoos, which are indeed for entertainment and nothing like a museum, Sea World, the circus, or any other place non domesticated animals are in captivity. You can save endangered species without opening it up to the public for entertainment purposes.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 12:53:39 GMT
My thoughts too but the gun was far to handy to even attempt to rescue him any other way. They managed to distract the two females so why not the male? Such a sad,sad ending to such a beautiful intelligent animal. Such a different outcome than what happened at a Jersey Zoo some 30 years ago. The Gorilla,the boy and the rescue men all lived to tell the taleNo! The gun was a last resort! And, unfortunately, Harambe was not retreating, don't you think that his keepers loved him and did everything they could to avoid the shooting ?! If not, you have very little understanding of the work that keepers do. They don't just throw in food and clean up poop. They form a real connection with the animals in their care as evidenced by many reports of the reunions of animal and keeper after the keeper or the animal has had to move away Exactly, they do have a connection and that makes it all the more difficult to understand why they took the action they did. I've read and heard a report made by a spokesperson from the zoo and not once did he suggest that Harambe was dangerous/couldn't be trusted. What he did say was that the gorilla did not appear to be attacking the child, but he said the animal was “extremely strong” and in an agitated situation. The agitated situation was created by the public! They made no attempt to clear the viewing enclosure of the hysterical public yet they had 17 minutes to usher them away. Doing so would have calmed the environment surrounding the enclosure. I admit that he was at one time dragging him through the water ( he fell into the moat according to a bystander report) but he also stood him up in one of the videos shown.......it's not beyond the possibility that he was actually trying to protect him and get him out of the water but sadly he wasn't given the time.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on May 30, 2016 13:00:02 GMT
It's a truly sad situation.
I feel the zoo staff did what they had to do, in the end. As loved as the gorilla was, there is no way you could forsake an innocent young child's life.
Just sad, sad all around.
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Kerri W
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Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on May 30, 2016 13:02:13 GMT
They made no attempt to clear the viewing enclosure of the hysterical public yet they had 17 minutes to usher them away. Doing so would have calmed the environment surrounding the enclosure. Do you have a link to something stating the public was there, within viewing range, the entire time? The articles I've read state they removed people from the area.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 13:05:33 GMT
I am also puzzled that the zoo personnel didn't clear the area immediately. Once at Disney's Animal Kingdom, we were asked to vacate the Gorilla Falls exhibit because two young males were getting ready to rumble, and staff didn't want to take the chance that visitors would add to the tension. Nor did they want anyone to get hurt if the males got out of hand. As far as I know, no one was in immediate danger. But they weren't taking any chances.
This whole situation is just sad.
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Dani-Mani
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on May 30, 2016 13:19:02 GMT
They made no attempt to clear the viewing enclosure of the hysterical public yet they had 17 minutes to usher them away. Doing so would have calmed the environment surrounding the enclosure. Do you have a link to something stating the public was there, within viewing range, the entire time? The articles I've read state they removed people from the area. You can hear people screaming and talking in the video.
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on May 30, 2016 13:25:00 GMT
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 13:26:12 GMT
They made no attempt to clear the viewing enclosure of the hysterical public yet they had 17 minutes to usher them away. Doing so would have calmed the environment surrounding the enclosure. Do you have a link to something stating the public was there, within viewing range, the entire time? The articles I've read state they removed people from the area. There are a number of videos that have been linked to different reports that have been taken by the public recording with screaming and shouting on them. You can hear the shouting & screaming quite plainly on this one link and this one link
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 13:30:08 GMT
To follow up on my previous comment, I understand that a more primary purpose of conservancy has developed at zoos. That's great. It's just I think it's time to do that work without the public spectacle where these unfortunate freak situations have even the smallest of chances to occur.
I also think it's ludicrous to blame the parents. Blessed are those of you who have never had a strong willed child or turned your head at the wrong time and been lucky that nothing bad happened as a result. I watched my son like a hawk when he was young. I only had two kids. I am a *good* parent. Yet, he still managed to leave our house one day at 3 years of age and walked down the lane behind our house where he walked over nearly 2 acres away. He was going to visit the neighbors! He knocked on their door, announced himself when they answered and walked in. I *thought* he was playing with his sister watching TV. I was in the basement doing laundry. Never gave thought he'd up and walk out the door. Thankfully, we live in a rural environment and where he walked was safe from traffic.
Reminds of me when many of us were not parents who "tsk'd, tsk'd" the parenting skills of others. Only to have our own children and realizew there's no manual, there's no perfect parenting method available to follow, 99% of us just doing the best we can.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 13:30:50 GMT
At the time the animal was shot they might have cleared the area....well at least I hope they did. But they should have cleared the area immediately the boy fell in and not let members of the public stand there watching and videoing the event on their cameras so adding to the agitation of the situation.
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Post by freecharlie on May 30, 2016 13:37:53 GMT
Accidents can happen so quickly. I lost one of my daycare kids for a minute or so. He got away from me so quickly and it was crowded with parents and kids. This child could have climbed a low fence quickly and been in the gorilla pit. It happened so fast. Scared the twiddled out of me. So unless the Zoo can prove negligence on the parents I feel the Zoo keepers did all they could where things happen fast. I'm sorry for the gorilla BUT had the gorilla killed that child and zoo keepers didn't act fast wouldn't we then be criticizing the Zoo?[/b] I wouldnt, I'd still be criticizing the parent. This is 100% the parent and the child's fault
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,710
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on May 30, 2016 13:52:35 GMT
More than 10 minutes had passed before he was shot. Tons of time to clear the area.
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Post by jamielynn on May 30, 2016 13:57:32 GMT
I have a small child and fully understand how quick they are and how fast things occur.
However what I had read was this mother was alone at the zoo with many small children, on a busy holiday weekend, and this child mentioned wanting to get closer. The fact that she was aware of his intent, was obviously overwhelmed with the volume of her other kids (or this couldn't have occurred) and had the poor judgement of taking them all on a holiday weekend alone - I do feel she is responsible.
As another person stated I hope she is heavily reviewed to ensure she or they can properly care for all their kids at one time.
Thank goodness this child is okay and how absolutely tragic that an endangered species was killed due to a parents poor judgments.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on May 30, 2016 14:04:25 GMT
Accidents can happen so quickly. I lost one of my daycare kids for a minute or so. He got away from me so quickly and it was crowded with parents and kids. This child could have climbed a low fence quickly and been in the gorilla pit. It happened so fast. Scared the twiddled out of me. So unless the Zoo can prove negligence on the parents I feel the Zoo keepers did all they could where things happen fast. I'm sorry for the gorilla BUT had the gorilla killed that child and zoo keepers didn't act fast wouldn't we then be criticizing the Zoo?[/b] I wouldnt, I'd still be criticizing the parent. This is 100% the parent and the child's fault [/quote] Exactly my thought as well!!!
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:59:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 14:09:50 GMT
To follow up on my previous comment, I understand that a more primary purpose of conservancy has developed at zoos. That's great. It's just I think it's time to do that work without the public spectacle where these unfortunate freak situations have even the smallest of chances to occur. I also think it's ludicrous to blame the parents. Blessed are those of you who have never had a strong willed child or turned your head at the wrong time and been lucky that nothing bad happened as a result. I watched my son like a hawk when he was young. I only had two kids. I am a *good* parent. Yet, he still managed to leave our house one day at 3 years of age and walked down the lane behind our house where he walked over nearly 2 acres away. He was going to visit the neighbors! He knocked on their door, announced himself when they answered and walked in. I *thought* he was playing with his sister watching TV. I was in the basement doing laundry. Never gave thought he'd up and walk out the door. Thankfully, we live in a rural environment and where he walked was safe from traffic. Reminds of me when many of us were not parents who "tsk'd, tsk'd" the parenting skills of others. Only to have our own children and realizew there's no manual, there's no perfect parenting method available to follow, 99% of us just doing the best we can. I am completely in agreement. You wrote what I have been thinking. All the perfect parents will feel differently. Also, I support conservancy, but spectacle is different. Humans are some of the most heartless animals on the planet, and I wouldn't want to be on display for them and at their mercy.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 30, 2016 14:26:51 GMT
To follow up on my previous comment, I understand that a more primary purpose of conservancy has developed at zoos. That's great. It's just I think it's time to do that work without the public spectacle where these unfortunate freak situations have even the smallest of chances to occur. I also think it's ludicrous to blame the parents. Blessed are those of you who have never had a strong willed child or turned your head at the wrong time and been lucky that nothing bad happened as a result. I watched my son like a hawk when he was young. I only had two kids. I am a *good* parent. Yet, he still managed to leave our house one day at 3 years of age and walked down the lane behind our house where he walked over nearly 2 acres away. He was going to visit the neighbors! He knocked on their door, announced himself when they answered and walked in. I *thought* he was playing with his sister watching TV. I was in the basement doing laundry. Never gave thought he'd up and walk out the door. Thankfully, we live in a rural environment and where he walked was safe from traffic. Reminds of me when many of us were not parents who "tsk'd, tsk'd" the parenting skills of others. Only to have our own children and realizew there's no manual, there's no perfect parenting method available to follow, 99% of us just doing the best we can. I am completely in agreement. You wrote what I have been thinking. All the perfect parents will feel differently. Also, I support conservancy, but spectacle is different. Humans are some of the most heartless animals on the planet, and I wouldn't want to be on display for them and at their mercy. You don't have to be a perfect parent to understand your child's nature and act accordingly.
My youngest one was a runner. If we couldn't properly supervise him in situations, we didn't go. That's not perfection, that's just baseline parenting.
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