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Post by ntsf on Jun 4, 2016 2:59:37 GMT
I think you also have to know that San Jose, as a city, has a very very rocky relationship between the mayor/supervisors and the police. the police force is way understaffed, police have been joining other departments... due to a big political fight over pensions. they are not like the SF police, that deal with protests all the time..and with the anarchists, and so on...and have a huge department. the san jose are understaffed, and they are restrained so that they are not inciting the crowd even further...they did step in, they did arrest people...trump comes to the center of his unpopularity and then complains when he and his supporters are highly unpopular. if this rally had been in SF, you would have seen thousands of people out in the streets protesting. the violence is bad... I don't accept it at all.. but it was minor compared to many situations around here.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 4, 2016 3:28:03 GMT
I think you also have to know that San Jose, as a city, has a very very rocky relationship between the mayor/supervisors and the police. the police force is way understaffed, police have been joining other departments... due to a big political fight over pensions. they are not like the SF police, that deal with protests all the time..and with the anarchists, and so on...and have a huge department. the san jose are understaffed, and they are restrained so that they are not inciting the crowd even further...they did step in, they did arrest people...trump comes to the center of his unpopularity and then complains when he and his supporters are highly unpopular. if this rally had been in SF, you would have seen thousands of people out in the streets protesting. the violence is bad... I don't accept it at all.. but it was minor compared to many situations around here. Yes to all of this. The violence yesterday was reprehensible, but also pretty predictable given Trump's inflammatory verbal diarrhea. The SJPD chief is all over the local news today, apologizing for not assigning enough officers to maintain peace at the rally. San Jose isn't used to this kind of crap, and the idea that the lack of policing was due to the mayor's support of Hillary is just laughable. They held back not because they like seeing protesters physically attack Trump supporters, but because they didn't want to further inflame the situation until sufficient backup arrived and/or till it got so out of hand that they had no choice. And what is this paid protester crap about? You didn't give sources for your information, but I doubt there's any evidence of either Democratic candidate paying for violence to take place at Trump rallies. Yeah, way to create sympathy for, not further dislike of, the candidate. It makes no sense. It would make more sense if Trump himself paid for them. As far as the vet protestors go, I saw the founder of the group on TV that same night. He said he's a Hillary supporter but his group has no connection to her campaign. So whatever Breitbart says, I'm sure it has no more standing than what the actual guy involved says.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jun 4, 2016 3:34:36 GMT
The mayor is a Hillary supporter. He tried to blame Trump for the mess. It wasn't Trump supporters out there beating up rally attendees, throwing things at them. Also, the mayor has a say in how the police handle matters like this. Because they stood by and let a lot of this happen, I believe it speaks for itself. So just because the Mayor is a HRC supporter? Face it.....Trump likes this shit....it's not like he's called a press conference like he does for everything else he spews to denounce or discourage violence at HIS rallies. Reckless speech has consequences, regardless of WHO the protestors are. I don't condone violence for any reason, but I have to say I agree with you that Trump's most likely eating it up. Wasn't he the one who said if he wasn't elected there would be riots in the street? He was all but encouraging it. Well, he's getting what he wanted - although it's turned around on him.
I have a lot of compassion for the people who have lost property or been injured in all the foolishness.
I have no compassion for Mr. Trump, however.
I fear that this isn't the last time it will happen.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 4, 2016 3:52:00 GMT
So just because the Mayor is a HRC supporter? Face it.....Trump likes this shit....it's not like he's called a press conference like he does for everything else he spews to denounce or discourage violence at HIS rallies. Reckless speech has consequences, regardless of WHO the protestors are. I don't condone violence for any reason, but I have to say I agree with you that Trump's most likely eating it up. Wasn't he the one who said if he wasn't elected there would be riots in the street? He was all but encouraging it. Well, he's getting what he wanted - although it's turned around on him.
I have a lot of compassion for the people who have lost property or been injured in all the foolishness.
I have no compassion for Mr. Trump, however.
I fear that this isn't the last time it will happen.
oh, I'm pretty sure it's going to be an absolutely unbearable summer.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 4, 2016 4:09:04 GMT
Read the original post and the comment that unless you are a Hillary supporter the Mayor so on and so on. Sorry, I missed that.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 4, 2016 12:04:57 GMT
Sorry, I'm headed out the door. I heard it on talk-radio a few days ago. I'm sure it will pop up with a quick google. Yep...quick google and the sites that popped up were: The Daily Beast Breitbart Conservative Review Conservative Tree House Was that talk-radio Rush? or maybe Michael Savage? Mark Levin? In all fairness, if we are all talking about the same protest-the veterans that protested outside of the Trump building-it is in the 'regular' news as well. I know that I saw it pop up on my twitter feed and while I follow a gazillion news sources, I only follow the big ones like BBC, Reuters, CNN and the like. My understanding is that while it may have ultimately been supported/given organizational help by the Clinton Campaign, it didn't start off that way and was only attended by a handful of people.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 4, 2016 13:30:02 GMT
I don't condone violence for any reason, but I have to say I agree with you that Trump's most likely eating it up. Wasn't he the one who said if he wasn't elected there would be riots in the street? He was all but encouraging it. Well, he's getting what he wanted - although it's turned around on him.
I have a lot of compassion for the people who have lost property or been injured in all the foolishness.
I have no compassion for Mr. Trump, however.
I fear that this isn't the last time it will happen.
oh, I'm pretty sure it's going to be an absolutely unbearable summer. It will be. There are reports now that protestors/picketers are not going to follow the assigned areas at the RNC. I know that there are many excited for the RNC in Cleveland, but there are just as many who are getting out of the area; some in fear of what they think is going to happen, given the history following The Donald. Yes, he's eating this up--he's a narcissist and is and has always glorified himself. For those of you haters of everything that is NOT a Republican (party) please, give us the highlights of all the positives of your candidate. Tell us why they are the best. Seriously. It's become quite the norm that when bad things happen, instead of telling us why your candidate is the best fit, you swing out with (post articles/links) with anything you can of why it's always someone else's fault! It would certainly be refreshing to read about all the positive attributes of your candidate for once vs the same old party line bullcrap propaganda- attack, divide and conquer. By doing so, making some sort of compelling informative argument for your candidate may educate others.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jun 4, 2016 15:12:24 GMT
Reckless speech has consequences, regardless of WHO the protestors are. These protestors can't get at Trump so the supporters become fair game for their anger. It also seems that Trump incites the behavior and lately Bernie is suggesting the same. I can't believe some of you. Many are comparing this attitude to the rape victim being blamed because she wore a short skirt. I think the analogy fits. The protestors don't like what Trump says so that gives them license to chase down and beat up his supporters? Are you kidding me? There is connecting the dots and then there is manufacturing the dots to fit one's personal beliefs. I do believe we have witnessed the latter. Have you seen other cities where the police form a line in front of the venue and separate the supporters and protestors? Are you telling me the SJ police department can't manage that? That these people deserve to get beat up and cold cocked while the police stand away from them just watching because as the mayor puts it Trump had the audacity to come to his city?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:28:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 15:27:31 GMT
No one deserves to be hurt for supporting a political candidate. Attending a rally, wearing a shirt, carrying a sign are not "asking for it." It's the first freaking amendment. We protect political speech even when we disagree with it. Or we used to. I don't know what the hell we're doing anymore.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jun 4, 2016 15:30:06 GMT
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Post by Kymberlee on Jun 4, 2016 15:30:27 GMT
I am sitting with BeckyTech. I'm just really dumbfounded that this type of behavior is tolerated. I don't give a rat's behind who it is. It is illegal and disgusting and goes against everything that normal, sane people do. Everyone has condemned the behavior on this thread although some have added a huge "but" to the end of there condemnation which says to me that it's ok as long as it is against Trump and his supporters. I read the quotes of the mayor and was so aghast at his comments that I just couldn't believe that it was real. Donald Trump has every right to go and campaign anywhere he damn well chooses and the fact that the mayor doesn't like DT shouldn't have any damn thing do with enforcing the law and keeping peace in the city. Attitudes like this mayor are part of the reason people are growing bolder and bolder in these riots. Have ya'll seen the photos of the police horses that have been injured by protestors? How is that OK? The woman that was cornered by these animals and spit on and got eggs thrown at her? How about that kid that was running in fear from a protestor? I know everyone on this thread says it isn't OK, but in the same breath (keystroke) turn the blame to DT. We have reached a level of insanity in this country that defies sense.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,895
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jun 4, 2016 15:32:09 GMT
Big old liberal Trump hater here and I think they do more harm than any good they think they are doing.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 4, 2016 15:34:24 GMT
I am sitting with BeckyTech. I'm just really dumbfounded that this type of behavior is tolerated. I don't give a rat's behind who it is. It is illegal and disgusting and goes against everything that normal, sane people do. Everyone has condemned the behavior on this thread although some have added a huge "but" to the end of there condemnation which says to me that it's ok as long as it is against Trump and his supporters. I read the quotes of the mayor and was so aghast at his comments that I just couldn't believe that it was real. Donald Trump has every right to go and campaign anywhere he damn well chooses and the fact that the mayor doesn't like DT shouldn't have any damn thing do with enforcing the law and keeping peace in the city. Attitudes like this mayor are part of the reason people are growing bolder and bolder in these riots. Have ya'll seen the photos of the police horses that have been injured by protestors? How is that OK? The woman that was cornered by these animals and spit on and got eggs thrown at her? How about that kid that was running in fear from a protestor? I know everyone on this thread says it isn't OK, but in the same breath (keystroke) turn the blame to DT. We have reached a level of insanity in this country that defies sense. I will agree with you. This behavior is truly despicable and there is no place for it in a civilized society. As much as I loathe Trump, his supporters have a right to voice their opinion.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 4, 2016 15:42:14 GMT
So....by this account, "Trump for President!"... ...because he's not a racist!! (Never mind all the other offensive remarks he makes)
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 4, 2016 15:47:45 GMT
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Post by ntsf on Jun 4, 2016 15:53:47 GMT
the san jose police..according to cbs local news..did not have extra police persons..they sent all they had. they regret they did not get help from other departments. they do not break ranks to stop a minor scuffle..cause that would cause more problems. I think most in san jose would be happy if trump never came to town again..wrecks the image and costs the city too much money.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:28:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 15:53:47 GMT
Reckless speech has consequences, regardless of WHO the protestors are. These protestors can't get at Trump so the supporters become fair game for their anger. It also seems that Trump incites the behavior and lately Bernie is suggesting the same. I can't believe some of you. Many are comparing this attitude to the rape victim being blamed because she wore a short skirt. I think the analogy fits. The protestors don't like what Trump says so that gives them license to chase down and beat up his supporters? Are you kidding me? There is connecting the dots and then there is manufacturing the dots to fit one's personal beliefs. I do believe we have witnessed the latter. Have you seen other cities where the police form a line in front of the venue and separate the supporters and protestors? Are you telling me the SJ police department can't manage that? That these people deserve to get beat up and cold cocked while the police stand away from them just watching because as the mayor puts it Trump had the audacity to come to his city? First of all no one on this thread has excused the behavior of the protestors in San Jose. But what is being done is pointing out how, with his words, Trump is just as responsible for what is happening at his rallies as the protestors are responsible for their actions. The police have admitted this was not handled correctly. To somehow make it Hillary's fault because the mayor is a Hillary supporter or to imply the mayor or the police purposely let the riot get out of control because Trump had the "audacity" to come to San Jose is just plain dumb. And insulting to the mayor and police of San Jose.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 4, 2016 15:59:20 GMT
But you didn't quote the next couple of paragraphs.
I saw him interviewed last night. One of the others on the panel got into a pissing match with him about how it was possible that he could NOT see that it was a patronizing, offensive comment. The thing is that this person is a self-identified conservative African American. There was shouting and carrying on about how he felt okay with it and she felt he shouldn't be okay with it. What I came away with was that *I* was offended (that whole code word thing) but that if two conservative African Americans can't agree on the intent then I, as a middle aged, suburban white woman sure can't tell them what to feel. My experiences lead me in one direction, theirs in equally opposite directions. Now if you ask me about what he said about the judge overseeing his Trump University case, I will unequivocally say that is in offensive in every way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:28:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 15:59:28 GMT
lol....FFS....no one on this thread wants anyone injured, hurt or killed at one of his rallies....how ridiculous but I completely stand by my previous statements of it's not surprising considering the recklessness of his speeches and how he attacks groups of our society, that he loves this crap going down at his rallies (MORE PRESS!!!) .....The Donald needs to take some personal responsibility (you know that SOP of the GOP) in his part and maybe dial down the attacks and hate.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 4, 2016 16:52:21 GMT
If it's true, I highly doubt checks were given out. I'm not big into conspiracy theories, I need more more proof of paid.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 4, 2016 17:01:48 GMT
If it's true, I highly doubt checks were given out. I'm not big into conspiracy theories, I need more more proof of paid. The guy said he got a check from the organization !
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 4, 2016 17:11:24 GMT
I am sitting with BeckyTech. I'm just really dumbfounded that this type of behavior is tolerated. I don't give a rat's behind who it is. It is illegal and disgusting and goes against everything that normal, sane people do. Everyone has condemned the behavior on this thread although some have added a huge "but" to the end of there condemnation which says to me that it's ok as long as it is against Trump and his supporters. I read the quotes of the mayor and was so aghast at his comments that I just couldn't believe that it was real. Donald Trump has every right to go and campaign anywhere he damn well chooses and the fact that the mayor doesn't like DT shouldn't have any damn thing do with enforcing the law and keeping peace in the city. Attitudes like this mayor are part of the reason people are growing bolder and bolder in these riots. Have ya'll seen the photos of the police horses that have been injured by protestors? How is that OK? The woman that was cornered by these animals and spit on and got eggs thrown at her? How about that kid that was running in fear from a protestor? I know everyone on this thread says it isn't OK, but in the same breath (keystroke) turn the blame to DT. We have reached a level of insanity in this country that defies sense. I don't think anyone here is applauding the behavior of the violent protests.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 4, 2016 20:55:13 GMT
I am sitting with BeckyTech . I'm just really dumbfounded that this type of behavior is tolerated. I don't give a rat's behind who it is. It is illegal and disgusting and goes against everything that normal, sane people do. Everyone has condemned the behavior on this thread although some have added a huge "but" to the end of there condemnation which says to me that it's ok as long as it is against Trump and his supporters. I read the quotes of the mayor and was so aghast at his comments that I just couldn't believe that it was real. Donald Trump has every right to go and campaign anywhere he damn well chooses and the fact that the mayor doesn't like DT shouldn't have any damn thing do with enforcing the law and keeping peace in the city. Attitudes like this mayor are part of the reason people are growing bolder and bolder in these riots. Have ya'll seen the photos of the police horses that have been injured by protestors? How is that OK? The woman that was cornered by these animals and spit on and got eggs thrown at her? How about that kid that was running in fear from a protestor? I know everyone on this thread says it isn't OK, but in the same breath (keystroke) turn the blame to DT. We have reached a level of insanity in this country that defies sense. If my post was unclear, then: I absolutely, unequivocally think the violence was appalling, reprehensible, and criminal ... in addition to doing nothing to help their "cause," but rather, drive supporters away. None of that changes the fact that I think Donald Trump deliberately eggs on the violence (on both sides) and revels in it. These are not mutually exclusive ideas.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:28:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 21:01:10 GMT
Paid, unpaid, staged, unstaged: it really doesn't matter. That kind of violence is not ok, and everyone who had a part in it should be held fully accountable and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 4, 2016 21:31:09 GMT
You know, when it comes down to it-all this violence and craziness at the rallies is not new. At least the National Guard isn't opening fire on the protesters.
I don't think any of us condone the violent protesters. None of us. But there is absolutely no denying that there is an incredible divide right now in the US that is being driven by politics.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jun 5, 2016 19:15:15 GMT
I saw that article, but didn't quote it because clearly it can't be proven. Like I said, I haven't seen anything definitive on who the money backer is that is paying for these, that's why I'm asking the question. But the organizations I named in the OP are paying for preprinted signs - and a lot of them. When I googled trying to find out an answer, I did get this article and similar, you can see the organization names right on the sign - no speculation or guesswork there. This article goes on to name a Clinton SuperPac, but I didn't because - again- I didn't feel like they offered any proof. conservativetribune.com/anti-trump-sign-reveals-riots/
In the San Jose protest, I saw protesters holding signs with SEIU on the top, and the SEIU has officially backed Hillary Clinton. Anyone can see them in several photos. The SJMN has a photo gallery on this page and you can see them in photos 31 and 32. www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29976111/trump-protest-san-jose-police-chief-defends-officers
The other article I quoted showing the staged scene for Univision is self-explanatory.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jun 5, 2016 19:25:11 GMT
So....by this account, "Trump for President!"... ...because he's not a racist!! (Never mind all the other offensive remarks he makes) No. How about because he's not Hillary or Bernie? Sadly, with the candidates having such high disapproval ratings, that may be how our next president is decided: Who do you hate most? Vote the other party. I haven't decided who I'm going to vote for. There is plenty of time to decide. I'm going to be watching Gary Johnson interviews, although that stunt one of the party members did at their convention was quite unbelievable. Who knows? This year could be the Perfect Storm in which a third party candidate is elected.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 5, 2016 19:40:38 GMT
I saw that article, but didn't quote it because clearly it can't be proven. Like I said, I haven't seen anything definitive on who the money backer is that is paying for these, that's why I'm asking the question. But the organizations I named in the OP are paying for preprinted signs - and a lot of them. When I googled trying to find out an answer, I did get this article and similar, you can see the organization names right on the sign - no speculation or guesswork there. This article goes on to name a Clinton SuperPac, but I didn't because - again- I didn't feel like they offered any proof. conservativetribune.com/anti-trump-sign-reveals-riots/
In the San Jose protest, I saw protesters holding signs with SEIU on the top, and the SEIU has officially backed Hillary Clinton. Anyone can see them in several photos. The SJMN has a photo gallery on this page and you can see them in photos 31 and 32. www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29976111/trump-protest-san-jose-police-chief-defends-officers
The other article I quoted showing the staged scene for Univision is self-explanatory.
I don't have a problem with unions sending out demonstrators to express themselves. I guess I thought you were saying the violent protestors were paid plants. I would sure hope not, and I don't support violent protests, paid or unpaid, in any way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:28:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 19:47:59 GMT
I saw that article, but didn't quote it because clearly it can't be proven. Like I said, I haven't seen anything definitive on who the money backer is that is paying for these, that's why I'm asking the question. But the organizations I named in the OP are paying for preprinted signs - and a lot of them. When I googled trying to find out an answer, I did get this article and similar, you can see the organization names right on the sign - no speculation or guesswork there. This article goes on to name a Clinton SuperPac, but I didn't because - again- I didn't feel like they offered any proof. conservativetribune.com/anti-trump-sign-reveals-riots/
In the San Jose protest, I saw protesters holding signs with SEIU on the top, and the SEIU has officially backed Hillary Clinton. Anyone can see them in several photos. The SJMN has a photo gallery on this page and you can see them in photos 31 and 32. www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29976111/trump-protest-san-jose-police-chief-defends-officers
The other article I quoted showing the staged scene for Univision is self-explanatory.
And in the videos that played on the local news several of the protestors were chanting Bernie's name. So what does that mean? How about the protestors were a combination of Hillary supporters, Bernie supporters, and folks who don't support any candidate but don't like what Trump is saying. As to the signs I could see someone getting a bunch made up and handing them out to whoever wanted to carry a sign. I mean how can one have a good protest without signs? Without actual proof someone actually paid these protestors it's purely speculation by those having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to protest a Trump rally without someone paying them. Just something to ponder.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 5, 2016 20:26:26 GMT
Just last night I heard a group talking at dinner, their theory is that it actually helps Trump to have these kinds of protests as he uses them as part of his message. Their theory included it was Trump behind paying the protestors to come!
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