raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 18, 2016 22:46:29 GMT
They are skimming cards as well. This is one of a few methods they get your pin. So, someone attaches a card skimmer, then proceeds to jump in line behind every single customer to obtain their pin their number to go along with the card number- then later has to match up which PIN goes with which number? And no one wonders why this person is constantly in line? It makes no sense. Skimmers are used to obtain a large amount of numbers, I believe. Not just one. And with Internet and phone shopping and stores that require nothing (pin or signature) under a certain amount PIN numbers are kinda useless. Do you know for sure your PIN was actually obtained, or just your card number? ETA: just saw you answered this. Also, they had to have a pin or be signing because many of the transactions were over $500. Also you know as much about this as I do. If you watched the video. The cashier might be in on it or they are running several people through a day. I am not a theif so I don't know.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 4:36:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 22:56:36 GMT
Unless the thief is going to also steal your card those numbers are useless to him on their own. They don't have to have your card. My dh and I both had our cards in hand and we're using them in NC while in CA they were wiping our my accounts. This is why it's easy for them to pull off. You don't worry because you have your card, but that's not a good reason to feel safe. I beg to differ. The pin on it's own would be of no use to anyone without the card. A card can be cloned and used independently of the pin( which is what happened to you) especially if it's a singing card or used over the internet for purchases. But a pin cannot be used without the card. You can't just go up to a key pad and use a pin without either swiping the card through or inserting the card into the machine and punch the pin in. And this is exactly why the chipped cards are safer than the sign for cards. You can clone a card and this very often happens in restaurants/gas filling stations. They insert a sleeve in the machine/cash register and send the details to others that make copies of those cards but the original is still in your possession. They sign the back of the card and off they go on a spending spree and you have no idea that it's happening until either your bank notifies you or you check yourself on your account. With a chip and pin card the details of that pin is encrypted into the chip on the card and if they don't match the transaction won't work, The machine or ATM will reject it. What he has demonstrated on that video is useless to the fraudsters.
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on Jun 18, 2016 22:58:50 GMT
I get that employees can steal numbers with a skimmer or the right program, and people can use RFID readers at Starbucks on the chip cards. But if some random Joe Blow just takes a thermal photo of the PIN pad at my local grocery store, what good will it do him without the card itself? If he had an RFID reader he wouldn't need the pin. Years ago dh worked for a company like Ticketmaster. Every weekend an employee took home the backup discs from the servers so there'd be a backup in case of fire or other disaster. We would joke that we could run off to Mexico with all the money we could make selling the credit card numbers on the backup discs. That's usually how most people have their cards stolen. That's why people should check that the website is certified and secure. SSL certification types The info on these drives was encoded, but hackers can uncode them, so these security companies come up with better methods to keep customer info secure. We've only had our card info stolen once. At a gas station. Later we learned that we weren't the only ones. It was probably an employee stealing the info.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 18, 2016 23:02:33 GMT
Again. Doubt it. Don't worry about it. Whatever you want. It's not like you are hurting me by not caring.
I just thought it sucked and was good info to share. Take it or leave it.
Frankly for what minimal effort this takes it seems like an easy way to foil the lame ass behind you.
Up to you.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 18, 2016 23:09:01 GMT
We have chips on our cards that allow us to tap purchases up to $100. I am not sure if that is progress or regression. Debit cards here don't have that but all credit cards do. You can set up remote pay (Apple Pay) on your mobile device for your bank card as well as your credit card. And you can tap your mobile device anywhere that you can tap your credit card. The thing I like about Apple Pay is that the store never receives your credit card number, only an alternate number created by Apple.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 4:36:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 23:22:09 GMT
I beg to differ. The pin on it's own would be of no use to anyone without the card. A card can be cloned and used independently of the pin( which is what happened to you) especially if it's a singing card or used over the internet for purchases. But a pin cannot be used without the card. You can't just go up to a key pad and use a pin without either swiping the card through or inserting the card into the machine and punch the pin in. And this is exactly why the chipped cards are safer than the sign for cards. You can clone a card and this very often happens in restaurants/gas filling stations. They insert a sleeve in the machine/cash register and send the details to others that make copies of those cards but the original is still in your possession. They sign the back of the card and off they go on a spending spree and you have no idea that it's happening until either your bank notifies you or you check yourself on your account. With a chip and pin card the details of that pin is encrypted into the chip on the card and if they don't match the transaction won't work, The machine or ATM will reject it. What he has demonstrated on that video is useless to the fraudsters. Chip cards are better.I'm not arguing that at all. I am saying that a lot of places are not yet equipped to take them. Many have post it notes or tape telling you it swipe because it isn't activated. They don't have to have YOUR card they can have a card that is a clone of your card. But the pin is still matched to one particular card though whether it's to a strip that gets swiped or to a chip card. So he would still need the information that was on that strip to match it up to the pin he was taking a thermal image of for it to work. A pin is unique to an individual account and without the account information the pin won't work. Think about it, how is he going to get the card/account number of that person in front of him in that line? What happened to you and I agree it does suck was that they cloned your card somewhere unknown to you, probably some weeks before it showed up on your account ( so it's not so easily traceable). Made a new card with the information that they downloaded from that strip, signed it on the back and went on a spending spree with your money but a duplicate card. That is why is it so important, never to let your card out of your sight and to cast your eye on ATM machines before using them to check that they haven't slipped a thin sleeve into the machine to record the strip. Here's a few tips on how they do it at ATM machines
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Post by houston249 on Jun 18, 2016 23:25:23 GMT
Honestly, I really appreciate the info, but I never should have opened this thread.
I'm sitting here in the Atlanta airport on a 6 hour layover (cause my airline thought 4 hours was not enough and added 2 more) and my credit cards feel so naked and vunerable.
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Post by Citygirl on Jun 18, 2016 23:32:53 GMT
What was the purpose of creating this device in the first place? Why does anyone need an infared camera for a smart phone (other than to commit crimes)?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 4:36:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 23:45:34 GMT
What was the purpose of creating this device in the first place? Why does anyone need an infared camera for a smart phone (other than to commit crimes)? an infrared camera (or film) can just be for fun funky photos of friends, or take photos of your house to see where you might have energy leaks. see if the dog has been sleeping on the couch while you are gone. Just an expensive toy. I'm not going to worry about my finger prints giving away my pin. It is the people potentially walking around with a "rif " reader in their pocket/bag that is stealing all the info off my credit cards that I will worry about more or the data theft done by an employee that gets my full info as well.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 4:36:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 23:50:24 GMT
Honestly, I really appreciate the info, but I never should have opened this thread. I'm sitting here in the Atlanta airport on a 6 hour layover (cause my airline thought 4 hours was not enough and added 2 more) and my credit cards feel so naked and vunerable. The vast majority of cc fraud happens either at the bank the card was issued from or due to an employee at a business. Your cards are most at risk when you use them. If the possibility of someone stealing your info is very worrysome to you, get a protective wallet when you get home.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Jun 19, 2016 2:03:02 GMT
We have chips on our cards that allow us to tap purchases up to $100. I am not sure if that is progress or regression. Debit cards here don't have that but all credit cards do. You can set up remote pay (Apple Pay) on your mobile device for your bank card as well as your credit card. And you can tap your mobile device anywhere that you can tap your credit card. The thing I like about Apple Pay is that the store never receives your credit card number, only an alternate number created by Apple. I am set up with Apple Pay. I did that last week. I will try using that. Today I was rubbing off key pads.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jun 19, 2016 4:05:53 GMT
Wow, I hadn't heard of that before, and I never knew there was such a thing as an infra red camera attachment. But now I'm going to need 3 hands.... one for punching in the PIN, one for covering my PIN-entering hand, and another to rest on the key pad!
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 19, 2016 10:58:32 GMT
Well, damn.
That never would have occurred to me as a possibility.
I guess I'll be touching the whole damn keypad from now on.
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Post by baslp on Jun 19, 2016 11:53:46 GMT
Thanks for the PSA! I will def . Share this info with my family.
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Post by magentapea on Jun 19, 2016 13:57:19 GMT
This is why when after I put in my pin in any machine, I Rub my whole hand over the key pad several times. I look OCD doing it, but it disrupts the thermal pattern and they can't see the numbers I pressed.. I do that, too.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 19, 2016 14:07:39 GMT
What was the purpose of creating this device in the first place? Why does anyone need an infared camera for a smart phone (other than to commit crimes)? an infrared camera (or film) can just be for fun funky photos of friends, or take photos of your house to see where you might have energy leaks. see if the dog has been sleeping on the couch while you are gone. Just an expensive toy. I'm not going to worry about my finger prints giving away my pin. It is the people potentially walking around with a "rif " reader in their pocket/bag that is stealing all the info off my credit cards that I will worry about more or the data theft done by an employee that gets my full info as well. But what good does that do for you to worry about? Do you have tips and tricks to avoid that? The specialized wallet, ok. But as you say it's more likely it is when you use your card or something. Clearly there is some benefit to thieves to have a pin number, or else there wouldn't be so much concern over the skimmers and the pin access that is going on right now. I mean at least for this you can help yourself out a bit. You can't do anything about the other, so worrying about it in specific terms seems pointless. Isn't just better to over all keep an eye out on your accounts and basically cross your fingers? Because truly, that's the only real way your money is secure. Pure luck.
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 19, 2016 15:12:14 GMT
This is why when after I put in my pin in any machine, I Rub my whole hand over the key pad several times. I look OCD doing it, but it disrupts the thermal pattern and they can't see the numbers I pressed.. Never thought of this but will be doing it from now on. Thanks!
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jun 19, 2016 15:14:56 GMT
I'd rather use a stylus than rub all over a nasty keypad.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 4:36:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 16:17:05 GMT
an infrared camera (or film) can just be for fun funky photos of friends, or take photos of your house to see where you might have energy leaks. see if the dog has been sleeping on the couch while you are gone. Just an expensive toy. I'm not going to worry about my finger prints giving away my pin. It is the people potentially walking around with a "rif " reader in their pocket/bag that is stealing all the info off my credit cards that I will worry about more or the data theft done by an employee that gets my full info as well. But what good does that do for you to worry about? Do you have tips and tricks to avoid that? The specialized wallet, ok. But as you say it's more likely it is when you use your card or something. Clearly there is some benefit to thieves to have a pin number, or else there wouldn't be so much concern over the skimmers and the pin access that is going on right now. I mean at least for this you can help yourself out a bit. You can't do anything about the other, so worrying about it in specific terms seems pointless. Isn't just better to over all keep an eye out on your accounts and basically cross your fingers? Because truly, that's the only real way your money is secure. Pure luck. But what good does that do for you to worry about? Worry about what? I'm not worried. Do you have tips and tricks to avoid that? Avoid what? Avoid worry? The specialized wallet, ok. But as you say it's more likely it is when you use your card or something. Clearly there is some benefit to thieves to have a pin number, or else there wouldn't be so much concern over the skimmers and the pin access that is going on right now. The only people worried about pin numbers are people who are clueless on how the system works and people who enjoy stirring up fear. A lone pin number with no account information is useless. Account information without a pin CAN be used since not every transaction requires a pin. Use the card online and no pin required. Skimmers are a whole different topic as a skimmer reads the magnetic strip on your card. It takes your name, your account information, you address and your pin. A skimmers get the whole thing. You should worry about skimmers. I mean at least for this you can help yourself out a bit. You can't do anything about the other, so worrying about it in specific terms seems pointless. Worrying about specific terms is absolutely pointed. By understanding the terms you know if it should be something to worry about or if it is something you don't need to worry about and just look like a brainless fool rubbing your hand all over a keypad to hid finger prints for no reason.
Isn't just better to over all keep an eye out on your accounts and basically cross your fingers? Yes, you should keep your eye on your accounts. Not sure why you think I would believe otherwise. But keeping an eye on your accounts doesn't keep them safe. It just means you are aware of unauthorized activity sooner. I don't cross my fingers. I know what actions are stupid baseless ones and what have some true merit. Because truly, that's the only real way your money is secure. Pure luck. Yes, luck plays a part in never having your account compromised. But there are some useful steps you can take to lessen the either the probability or the impact. A shielded wallet (or fold a small piece of foil over your cards in your wallet) keeps someone walking around with a reader from stealing your card info. Google images of skimmers. Learn what they look like and what to look for. Never use the far end gas pumps unless you are very familiar with that specific gas station and know what the card reader should look like. The far end pumps where the attendant can't see as easily are more likely to have skimmer attached as no one can see what is going on. Any atm that is in a out of the way area is also more likely to have a skimmer attached.
Stop using a debit card. Period. Get a credit card with a smallish credit line. Use if instead of your debit card. Only use the debit card at your bank. If your cc is compromised they don't have your entire bank account stolen and you still have money in the bank to take care of your needs while the theft is resolved. If my cc gets compromised I'v got a temporary $1000 problem not a "wiped out my life savings and took my paycheck that was direct deposited now I don't know how I'll feed the family this month while this is resolved" problem.
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