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Post by missmiss on Jul 7, 2016 13:56:37 GMT
I woke up to the story about Philando Castile and am sick. I probably won't articulate my thoughts well, but IMO there are many issues at play here. One, of course, is racism and racial profiling. As the mother of four biracial boys, I am scared for them and think it is sad that I am more worried for how they may be treated by police that in the community as a whole. I understand that each of these cases has differences, and also understand the fear and apprehension that police have daily as they do their jobs. In addition to race, I feel that this is part of the bigger gun issue that we have in this country. Police have to worry more about who has guns and who doesn't, and it increases the tension in interactions with police. According to the video by his girlfriend, Philando Castile told police he had a gun and was reaching for his license and registration before being shot. I wonder what was going on in the officers head that led to him shooting? Did he misunderstand what he said? I don't get it. Several years ago my husband was stopped on his way home from work (for not having his headlights on, even though it wasn't dark yet). The officer asked for his license and registration and as he reached for it, two officers (one on each side of the car) pulled their guns. I have to say, I have only been stopped a few times but have never had more than one officer there, and never had a gun pulled. Is that because I am a white woman and he is a black man? My mom recently asked me if I have talked to my sons about how to act and what to say in interactions with the police. I hadn't really thought about it at that time, but am now wondering how others have handled this? My brother and SIL recently adopted a baby who was biracial and they had to take a class on race/culture and part of it was on how others may treat their child. I believe the standard is to shut off your car, roll down your window, turn on interior light if it's night, and put your hands on the steering wheel. Don't go reaching for things, and don't get out of the car unless asked to. When they ask for license/registration, ask if you can get it from glove compartment. I taught my son and daughter these things. SaveSaveSounds like the standard didn't help the man from MN Castile moaned and appeared to lose consciousness as the officer could be heard in the background shouting expletives in apparent frustration. “Ma’am, keep your hands where they are,” he shouted at Reynolds. “I told him not to reach for it! I told him to get his hands up.” “You told him to get his ID, sir, his driver’s license,” Reynolds responded. “Oh my god. Please don’t tell me he’s dead. Please don’t tell me my boyfriend just went like that.” |
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Post by cade387 on Jul 7, 2016 14:00:22 GMT
I woke up to the story about Philando Castile and am sick. I probably won't articulate my thoughts well, but IMO there are many issues at play here. One, of course, is racism and racial profiling. As the mother of four biracial boys, I am scared for them and think it is sad that I am more worried for how they may be treated by police that in the community as a whole. I understand that each of these cases has differences, and also understand the fear and apprehension that police have daily as they do their jobs. In addition to race, I feel that this is part of the bigger gun issue that we have in this country. Police have to worry more about who has guns and who doesn't, and it increases the tension in interactions with police. According to the video by his girlfriend, Philando Castile told police he had a gun and was reaching for his license and registration before being shot. I wonder what was going on in the officers head that led to him shooting? Did he misunderstand what he said? I don't get it. Several years ago my husband was stopped on his way home from work (for not having his headlights on, even though it wasn't dark yet). The officer asked for his license and registration and as he reached for it, two officers (one on each side of the car) pulled their guns. I have to say, I have only been stopped a few times but have never had more than one officer there, and never had a gun pulled. Is that because I am a white woman and he is a black man? My mom recently asked me if I have talked to my sons about how to act and what to say in interactions with the police. I hadn't really thought about it at that time, but am now wondering how others have handled this? My brother and SIL recently adopted a baby who was biracial and they had to take a class on race/culture and part of it was on how others may treat their child. I believe the standard is to shut off your car, roll down your window, turn on interior light if it's night, and put your hands on the steering wheel. Don't go reaching for things, and don't get out of the car unless asked to. When they ask for license/registration, ask if you can get it from glove compartment. I taught my son and daughter these things. SaveSaveAnd that is apparently what this man did. He asked to reach for his ID to show he had a license to carry a gun and then was shot when reaching for his back pocket. So if you follow what the police ask and move slowly and still get shot, then what? |
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Post by Peace Sign on Jul 7, 2016 14:01:51 GMT
I woke up to the story about Philando Castile and am sick. I probably won't articulate my thoughts well, but IMO there are many issues at play here. One, of course, is racism and racial profiling. As the mother of four biracial boys, I am scared for them and think it is sad that I am more worried for how they may be treated by police that in the community as a whole. I understand that each of these cases has differences, and also understand the fear and apprehension that police have daily as they do their jobs. In addition to race, I feel that this is part of the bigger gun issue that we have in this country. Police have to worry more about who has guns and who doesn't, and it increases the tension in interactions with police. According to the video by his girlfriend, Philando Castile told police he had a gun and was reaching for his license and registration before being shot. I wonder what was going on in the officers head that led to him shooting? Did he misunderstand what he said? I don't get it. Several years ago my husband was stopped on his way home from work (for not having his headlights on, even though it wasn't dark yet). The officer asked for his license and registration and as he reached for it, two officers (one on each side of the car) pulled their guns. I have to say, I have only been stopped a few times but have never had more than one officer there, and never had a gun pulled. Is that because I am a white woman and he is a black man? My mom recently asked me if I have talked to my sons about how to act and what to say in interactions with the police. I hadn't really thought about it at that time, but am now wondering how others have handled this? My brother and SIL recently adopted a baby who was biracial and they had to take a class on race/culture and part of it was on how others may treat their child. I hear you. You absolutely must speak to your nonwhite children about racism, police brutality, and what to do and what not to do if stopped. Never ever run, for example. Also they should know that being in a group can make others fearful and uncomfortable. And-black kids are statistically thought of as 3-5 years older than they really are. So your 9 year old could be a menacing 13 year old to some folks. It's a horrible conversationn to have and to continue having but if you don't, your kid-my kid-could be next. I also recommend introducing your children to the police and repeatedly interacting with them is helpful too. If there's ever an interaction and the police know little Shaun, they might not be so fearful of Shaun. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Jul 7, 2016 14:02:27 GMT
She saw him killed and still managed to get out that "sir" someone told me would prevent me from becoming Sandra Bland. Be respectful. Don't reach for anything. Be cooperative. William Bruce Ray must have had a mama who didn't warn him that pointing a gun at passing cars would get him tackled and safely apprehended by police. He was looking for trouble and will live to tell the story.
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casii
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Post by casii on Jul 7, 2016 14:11:13 GMT
I've been weepy and the video related to the Philando Castile murder has me even more emotional.
My pale, pasty blonde daughter's serious boyfriend is black. Not only is he black. He is a raised well, painfully shy, unerringly polite kid who also happens to be 6 foot 3 and built like a linebacker. This worries me to no end. They're both at college, so I can't constantly remind him to be careful, but his parents, DH and I have had more than one conversation about our worry for how their son needs to react in a police situation. Sounds like even if you do all the right things, you're still at risk of dying.
And even if he weren't the sweetest guy, even if he had shoplifted or tagged a building or bought some weed when he was 14, he wouldn't deserve to be shot down.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 7, 2016 14:14:21 GMT
She saw him killed and still managed to get out that "sir" someone told me would prevent me from becoming Sandra Bland. Be respectful. Don't reach for anything. Be cooperative. William Bruce Ray must have had a mama who didn't warn him that pointing a gun at passing cars would get him tackled and safely apprehended by police. He was looking for trouble and will live to tell the story. When I saw the video I couldn't believe that she was so calm after all this happened, but she must have been in shock and disbelief of what happened. I can't imagine being in that situation. |
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MaryMary
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by MaryMary on Jul 7, 2016 15:08:44 GMT
This is so crappy. I'm so sorry.
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Post by Peace Sign on Jul 7, 2016 15:14:53 GMT
I wish the police officers would take a stand against this. Show respect and support for the victims. It would really help I think.
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Post by missmiss on Jul 7, 2016 15:31:17 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 7, 2016 15:42:37 GMT
I woke up to the story about Philando Castile and am sick. I probably won't articulate my thoughts well, but IMO there are many issues at play here. One, of course, is racism and racial profiling. As the mother of four biracial boys, I am scared for them and think it is sad that I am more worried for how they may be treated by police that in the community as a whole. I understand that each of these cases has differences, and also understand the fear and apprehension that police have daily as they do their jobs. In addition to race, I feel that this is part of the bigger gun issue that we have in this country. Police have to worry more about who has guns and who doesn't, and it increases the tension in interactions with police. According to the video by his girlfriend, Philando Castile told police he had a gun and was reaching for his license and registration before being shot. I wonder what was going on in the officers head that led to him shooting? Did he misunderstand what he said? I don't get it. Several years ago my husband was stopped on his way home from work (for not having his headlights on, even though it wasn't dark yet). The officer asked for his license and registration and as he reached for it, two officers (one on each side of the car) pulled their guns. I have to say, I have only been stopped a few times but have never had more than one officer there, and never had a gun pulled. Is that because I am a white woman and he is a black man? My mom recently asked me if I have talked to my sons about how to act and what to say in interactions with the police. I hadn't really thought about it at that time, but am now wondering how others have handled this? My brother and SIL recently adopted a baby who was biracial and they had to take a class on race/culture and part of it was on how others may treat their child. I hear you. You absolutely must speak to your nonwhite children about racism, police brutality, and what to do and what not to do if stopped. Never ever run, for example. Also they should know that being in a group can make others fearful and uncomfortable. And-black kids are statistically thought of as 3-5 years older than they really are. So your 9 year old could be a menacing 13 year old to some folks. It's a horrible conversationn to have and to continue having but if you don't, your kid-my kid-could be next. I also recommend introducing your children to the police and repeatedly interacting with them is helpful too. If there's ever an interaction and the police know little Shaun, they might not be so fearful of Shaun. It sounds like Philando Castile did everything right: told the officers he was licensed to carry and had a weapon. Reached for his ID when told. And they shot him anyway, four times. They shot him anyway. Where's the NRA with their outrage for Philando Castile's right to carry? This is disgusting and horrible. Why does this keep happening? Why aren't these police officers able to de-escalate situations instead? How many times does this have to happen before something is done? What CAN be done to prevent this? Just so awful. SaveSave |
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valincal
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Post by valincal on Jul 7, 2016 15:51:23 GMT
I'm so sad right now thinking about the fact that iamkristinl16 and Peace Sign need to give their children "special talks" on how to avoid being shot by a police officer. What the hell is the world coming to? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 15:58:31 GMT
I'm appalled by these shootings that seem to be happening every day and even more appalled that the GOOD and HONORABLE LEOs that are out there choose not to denounce the actions of these officers that clearly haven't had the training, both physical and psychological that is required for the job.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 7, 2016 16:15:59 GMT
I'm so sad right now thinking about the fact that iamkristinl16 and Peace Sign need to give their children "special talks" on how to avoid being shot by a police officer. What the hell is the world coming to? How many white moms on here have to give their white teenagers talks about what to do to avoid being shot by police? SaveSave |
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Post by jenis40 on Jul 7, 2016 16:18:40 GMT
WTF? While I will wait for the results of the investigations to make final judgment those videos make me so angry. We have 3 LEO in my DH's immediate family and we also have 3 biracial grandchildren. I fear for their safety every day especially our 19 year old grandson who is in college. I worry that coming from a not very racially diverse state, he won't always know everything he needs to know about being black and the police. His LEO uncles have spoken to him but how much of that sinks in at that age? He just hasn't had to experience that kind of racism as he's been a bit sheltered due to his upbringing in Montana.
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Post by momstime on Jul 7, 2016 16:27:33 GMT
I'm so sad right now thinking about the fact that iamkristinl16 and Peace Sign need to give their children "special talks" on how to avoid being shot by a police officer. What the hell is the world coming to? How many white moms on here have to give their white teenagers talks about what to do to avoid being shot by police? SaveSaveI have never had that talk with my three grown white children. I have personally been stopped by police and have had zero issues neither retrieving my registration from my glovebox, nor digging in my huge ass purse for my wallet/license. No cop has ever batted an eye. I also have never had to keep my hands on my steering wheel. The same can be said for my white husband. Everyone should be treated like that regardless of the color of their skin. SaveSave |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 16:46:10 GMT
I'm so sad right now thinking about the fact that iamkristinl16 and Peace Sign need to give their children "special talks" on how to avoid being shot by a police officer. What the hell is the world coming to? How many white moms on here have to give their white teenagers talks about what to do to avoid being shot by police? SaveSaveThis white mom has had to have the talk with her 20 year old white son and his 20 year old black best friend who are getting ready to move into their 1st apartment together August 1st. For the last year or two, DS's BF has spent more time over here than at his own home and the three of us have had numerous talks unfortunately because of how frequent these deaths are happening. I told them both I was a bit scared for them and to please, please, watch everything you do or say if followed or pulled over by the police. |
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Julie W
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Post by Julie W on Jul 7, 2016 16:52:08 GMT
I'm so sad right now thinking about the fact that iamkristinl16 and Peace Sign need to give their children "special talks" on how to avoid being shot by a police officer. What the hell is the world coming to? I was watching his parents being interviewed and his mother stressed they had those talks. She said they told him, always "compliance." He was a beloved cafeteria supervisor at my friend's daughter's school. Save |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 7, 2016 17:20:51 GMT
This is a long article, but I think it's worth a read. The FBI has started trying to do a better job in collecting data, but it's still not robust. The Washington Post attempted to capture data on every OIS in 2015. There's a lot of good, bad and ugly in the data. I know family members talk about domestic abuse situations being the most dangerous, and the data proved that out - half involved calls for domestic disturbances - not only abuse but also mental instability. The majority of those killed were white - but the statistics change dramatically when looking at the data for unarmed suspects. If you're wielding a gun or other weapon, you're likely to be shot irregardless of race - if you're unarmed and were shot - most likely you were black or hispanic. I don't know all the answers. I do know that the prevalence of guns exacerbates what should be routine stops/interactions - too many LEOs fear coming home at the end of their shift, and fear is not a healthy way to approach the people you're served with protecting. www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-police-shootings-in-2015-approaching-400-nationwide/2015/05/30/d322256a-058e-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html |
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Post by annabella on Jul 7, 2016 17:34:59 GMT
I don't understand why they took Philando Castile's girlfriend to jail where she sat until 5am??? I don't understand how the police officer panicked over him reaching to his pocket but her holding her phone was a non-issue? In Europe cops shoot to detain a suspect, meaning they will shoot someone in the leg to distract and disable them. I don't understand why in this country cops are taught shoot to kill?
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Post by *KAS* on Jul 7, 2016 18:27:48 GMT
I watched the Philando Castile video, and it just made me sick.
I GET that there are thugs (of any race) that would love to shoot a cop. And I'm sure this cop won't be punished because he 'feared for his life.'
But usually those people:
1. don't leave their seatbelt on. They take it off so they can run.
2. don't have a concealed carry permit
3. don't TELL the cop they have it in advance
4. don't sit there, complying with the officer's requests, with their girlfriend and 4 year old baby girl in the car before deciding to suddenly off the cop.
And then to watch that video where after he's shot and moaning, the cop just stands there with his gun on him until backup arrives? So he basically bled to death? Somebody (on a local news site, not here) said how if they were his girlfriend the last thing they would do is go on Facebook live - they would help him. Umm, yeah, she made one move to "help him" by reaching across his body and she would have been shot too!.
We have to use some common sense. Just awful. I support law enforcement. I don't think all cops are bad by any stretch of the imagination. But damn.
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casii
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Post by casii on Jul 7, 2016 18:35:43 GMT
Seems the NRA is mysteriously silent on the murder of a legal gun owner? I googled. Nothing, no word. At least not yet.
My own father is posting some particularly hateful stuff on facebook and I'm done. My middle sis and I often wonder whether we were adopted.
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Post by hosschick on Jul 7, 2016 19:15:31 GMT
. I don't understand why in this country cops are taught shoot to kill? I'm a former LEO. The reason is because a gun is a deadly weapon and is to be treated as such at all times. It is to always be assumed that a person shot will die. If the situation doesn't necessitate the use of deadly force, then you shouldn't be shooting him. Use other tools at your disposal to take control of the situation as needed. These might include pepper spray, general physical force, possibly a night stick or stun gun, and never use any type of force in an amount greater than the minimum required to gain control of the person. |
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Post by miominmio on Jul 7, 2016 19:40:21 GMT
. I don't understand why in this country cops are taught shoot to kill? I'm a former LEO. The reason is because a gun is a deadly weapon and is to be treated as such at all times. It is to always be assumed that a person shot will die. If the situation doesn't necessitate the use of deadly force, then you shouldn't be shooting him. Use other tools at your disposal to take control of the situation as needed. These might include pepper spray, general physical force, possibly a night stick or stun gun, and never use any type of force in an amount greater than the minimum required to gain control of the person. And it is also worth remembering that European countries have strict laws regarding gun ownership. The chances of cops encountering someone carrying a gun, is slim, so they are less likely to react violently to a perceived threat. Regarding the "shooting at the legs" comment; I know for a fact that that's not true here in Norway at least (my uncle was a LEO for years, including service in our anti terror police, and they were tought to aim at centre mass). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 19:50:05 GMT
Sorry, but I will wait for judgement. Many times eyewitness statements have been false. The hands up don't shoot case comes to mind, dozens of "eyewitness" came forward, only to be proven that they lied. I'm in no way saying all cops are stellar but I will hold judgement untill everything comes out. For the one bad LEO there are thousands of great LEO'S whom love their job and do it with dignity and grace. When you say false staments by eyewitnesses and reserving judgement are you referring to the store owners accounts or the civilian shot video? Without a thorough investigation having concluded what is your LEO thoughts on just the video and the policing tactics he saw used? Not this case...but others have shaken out that way. I have no opinion at this point on this case. I don't put a lot of stock into eyewitness statements, untill the whole investigation is done. People lie...or see what they want. We have watched a video from hubby's department it looks like they rushed someone for no reason. When watched from another camera it cleary shows the man pulling a loaded gun. The eyewitness in hubby's department case swore there was no weapon and the LEO's attacked for no reason. All the facts and evidence before an opinion. Just my two cents. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 19:59:16 GMT
Sorry, but I will wait for judgement. Many times eyewitness statements have been false. The hands up don't shoot case comes to mind, dozens of "eyewitness" came forward, only to be proven that they lied. I'm in no way saying all cops are stellar but I will hold judgement untill everything comes out. For the one bad LEO there are thousands of great LEO'S whom love their job and do it with dignity and grace. Who said all cops are bad here? That doesn't change the fact that there are police brutality cases and something should change. Cops should not be allowed to barrel roll onto a scene and then slam a teenager girl to the ground and get away with it. Cops should not be allowed to put someone in the back of a transport vehicle and then all of a sudden the guy is dead. Cops should not be allowed to slam a old man on the ground because he doesn't understand English. Cops should not be allowed to jump on a hood of a car and start shooting UNARMED people. Just because there are thousands of great LEO's who love their job doesn't change the fact the above happens. And it would be a safe wager those quite a few of those great LEO's don't turn in that one bad LEO. Why would they when things like this happen: www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/16/baltimore-joe-crystal_n_7582374.htmlYou better pray to God you are not the star witness, because your career is already fucked,” Amador told Crystal, according to the suit. “If you’re the star witness, you may as well just resign.” The police department declined to make Amador available for comment, citing his involvement in the lawsuit. During this time, Crystal said he would sometimes call for backup while pursuing suspects on the job, only to be ignored outright. chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/06/20/whistleblower-cop-ending-police-code-silence“I remember reporting to fugitive apprehension and a supervisor told me, ‘You’re not getting backup. The team is not going to back you up. You guys want to put supervisors in jail. I hate to be the one to knock on your door and tell your daughter you’re coming home in a box,’” Spalding said, detailing an example of the retaliation she and Echeverria faced. We need more cops like the two listed above. We also need all cops to back up these good cops. The shameful "Code of Silence" within the Chicago Police Department took a $2 million beating in federal court today. Congratulations go to the two brave whistleblower police officers who brought the case and exposed a corrupt crew of their peers in the face of personal threats to their livelihoods and even their lives. While this case is a big deal, the settlement is just a pinhead on an elephant's back. There are other cases out there. It does not change the culture. This is just a narrow, sliver of light in a very dark tunnel. In the last 10 years, Chicago has paid out $600 million in police abuse cases at a time when the city cannot pay teachers and closes 50 schools in a year. $600 MILLION in 10 years for police abuse cases. That needs to stop. Hi I didn't want to not respond. People seem to lump LEO all together and it's simply not true. Your are 100% right this needs to stop, not just LEO but citzens. I'm tired of hubby coming home bruised, cut, scratched and so much more because somewhere in society it became ok to be uncivilized. His job is to be done with integrity and honor surrounded by horror, disrespect and hate. Something needs to get done and I fear it's going to get much worse before it gets better. I love that he loves his job, has cool head, is civil, stern and has common sense. I hate his job for the fear it brings each time he steps outside. I'm not speaking on the case above in reference to what I wrote above....it's just a general statement as a whole. |
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Post by mzza111 on Jul 7, 2016 20:20:59 GMT
Hi I didn't want to not respond. People seem to lump LEO all together and it's simply not true. Your are 100% right this needs to stop, not just LEO but citzens. I'm tired of hubby coming home bruised, cut, scratched and so much more because somewhere in society it became ok to be uncivilized. His job is to be done with integrity and honor surrounded by horror, disrespect and hate. Wow just wow! Give me a f'ing break! At least he is coming home...unlike 2 men who were killed for no apparent reason! |
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Post by flanz on Jul 7, 2016 20:33:09 GMT
It's all horrific The ending of black lives by other black men is just as much of an issue and I wish there was a way to stop all this violence I'm so, so sick of watching the news and setting how many young black men die and it's like so many of them don't value each other or lift each other up, you just have to be a mom or old before you see another way besides fast money and kill or be killed And that's really not just a young black man problem, it's a poverty problem What we are talking about here is the atrocities committed by law enforcement officers who are hired and take oaths to serve and protect!!! Period. Institutionalized racism is the problem. Poverty certainly doesn't help the people of color or anyone in that state, but poverty doesn't make police officers kill people FOR NO DAMN REASON! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 20:41:51 GMT
I just don't understand the unwillingness of so many law enforcement officials and officers to admit that there's a problem, and then actually address it. I think that video that momstime posted perfectly illustrates why there is so much frustration and mistrust of law enforcement.
It all just makes me sick.
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Post by flanz on Jul 7, 2016 20:42:01 GMT
I hate 24/7 social media for this reason. I will wait until an investigation is complete before I come to any conclusions. But really, there is VIDEO to show that he was not resisting arrest, nor was he brandishing a weapon!~ These atrocities have been happening all along, before folks with cell phones started providing PROOF!! I'm a heartbroken middle-aged white woman aware of my white privilege, of my class privilege, and disgusted by it all!!! We who feel likewise must ACT!! Not just repost FB memes, not just cry to our friends or alone, but try to do something that matters! One of my local friends is setting up meetings with our police chief as a starting point, and I'm going to attend. I've been reading books and having conversations with family and friends. I would appreciate any and all ideas for things that we as individuals, and in groups, can do to affect real change. Here is some food for thought. www.justinccohen.com/blog/2016/7/6/advice-for-white-folks-in-the-wake-of-the-police-murder-of-a-black-person |
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Post by flanz on Jul 7, 2016 20:48:05 GMT
Are we only talking about black men being killed by police officers or do all lives matter? Because a quick Google search resulted in other police shootings in the past week but of other races. One involving a man that only had a baseball bat on him. Did I miss that thread? You have to read the entire article linked below, not just look at the chart, to see why we are discussing people of color being killed by police. they are FAR more likely to die at the hands of law enforcement than are white people!!! thesocietypages.org/toolbox/police-killing-of-blacks/ |
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