Another Black Man Killed By Police

I am well aware of firearms training and what it teaches. I don't think I said anything about real life being like the movies, either.

In most cases, the person who is killed doesn't even have a weapon *in hand*, which is the point I am making. It seems like the knee-jerk reaction is to pump a bunch of bullets into someone regardless of what they are doing. 

I am not anti law enforcement, but I do believe that we need a far more educated and better trained police force in this country. One of my best friends from high school is a SWAT officer with LAPD, and I worry for him, especially in this climate. I can't imagine what his wife goes through.

But that doesn't change the fact that, by and large, our police are uninformed about the law, overly aggressive and uninvested in the communities they are supposed to protect. There are always exceptions, and I am exceedingly grateful for those officers who remember their oath to protect and to serve. 

I think we're in agreement on our points. I was just commenting on the idea that a gun could be used to disarm. Others have mentioned that in this thread as well. If you are firing your gun, you assume that it could be deadly. That's all I was saying.

I have relatives who are retired police officers and friends who are current police officers. I agree with you that better training is needed, and more community outreach. NPR has been talking about this all morning and there are some good interviews that are discussing exactly that. SaveSave

It's a tense topic. I feel you.  SaveSave

This is how you think of teaching our children to show respect for law enforcement? Being subservient to the massa? 

I was taught to show respect to law enforcement. Yes, sir. No, sir. Be polite. That isn't subservience. It's courtesy. I have taught my son as I was taught. 

I will admit that I am comfortable with PO because I have known many through the years. The man I considered a dad was a state trooper. When I was learning to drive, I had a jerk riding my backside. He was coming home from work when he passed us and seen what was going on. He turned his car around and dealt with the jerk. My best friend growing up became a state trooper. I would trust him with my life. Then, there are the ones in my family. These are good family men who just want to protect and help people.

Anyway, when Trayvon Martin was killed, someone (I don't think she is here) shared her experience of what she has to teach her sons and how she worries every time her husband drives while black. That made a lasting impact on me. Never have I been given that glimpse into the life of a POC. 

Trayvon Martin's death hit me hard. I could easily imagine that mother's pain because I could walk in her shoes. My son was close to Trayvon's age. I was belittled because I could not possibly understand this mother's experience. I was 
simply patting myself on the back with my progressiveness. 

Philandro's death is horrifying. I don't understand. It's left me reeling. How did this happen? How does a family man, pulled over for a stupid tail light, get shot because he was reaching for his wallet? What the hell was he supposed to do? First thing that is requested is license and registration. Keep your hands visible. Do nothing suspicious. How are you to get your license and registration without using your hands? I guess now the advice is keep your license and registration in the cup holder so it's obvious that you aren't reaching for a weapon. WTH!

The 4 year old in the backseat didn't escape my notice. What kind of mental/emotional issues is she going to be dealing with? It infuriates me that she was put in danger because the PO shot into that car. 

So don't sit in judgement and tell me I don't care. I care. If these police involved shootings continue, my son's friends, my friends' spouses, children and grandchildren, and my relatives could be the next Trayvon or Philandro. If these shootings of PO continue, my best friend and relatives could be victims. 

I am sad. I am hurting. I am angry. And, I am scared.

i'm trying so hard to not judge or jump to conclusions

but jeez - he was strapped into his seat and that cop shot him four times -

i can not imagine a situation - other than having his weapon drawn - for him to be shot FOUR times

A very powerful article IMO about race and policing from the perspective of a black ex-cop: link

I have done just that for a very long time.

How I feel is absolutely contrary to your opinion of peas that did not make the "correct comments" on this thread.

One thing I have learned firsthand is how easy it is for some people of color to misinterpret very simple actions and/or words of people with whiter skin. They have been oversensitive and overreacted, separating themselves out from the larger community as if somehow, they were not being treated exactly the same way that everyone else was being treated.

It hurts me when that has happened. How do you get someone to believe that you constantly mix names up and call someone by someone else's name - even your own kids - when they have decided that "Hey, all us black people look the same to you."?

You can't. Anything you say from that point on only reinforces that belief in their eyes.

I feel you've done the same thing here.

What in the world can anyone say to you now that will allow you to think any differently?

I hope you will notice that I haven't laid any blame here. It's understandable how these thoughts of racism are generalized to include many more people than it should. It's also time that you begin to realize that.


Without having seen the videos, I can tell you that it sounds like both of these men died when they needn't have. The shooting in the car is especially horrific and I agree that Diamond Reynolds was heroic in streaming the incident live. And to think of that poor child.... I see a lifetime of carrying incredible pain ahead.



ETA - I'm going to pull this out myself.


Because it happens, as evidenced by these shootings.

But it doesn't mean everyone is guilty.

I edit my comments all the time. I edited this time to change something simple... like the word "to" to the word "of"... something along that line.

I also added to my comment in an ETA.


It's not unusual for me to remove something in an effort to state it better, but in this post, I did not.

I feel, olan, that whatever words I have aren't going to be enough for you because you've decided that because I think ALL of the violence affecting young black men needs to be denounced by everyone. All the gun crimes perpetrated by psychotic white men in theaters needs to be denounced. All the radical Muslim hate crimes, well, they don't really need my help, we're all in agreement about ISIS.

It wouldn't be enough for me to tell you that my best friend is black, and I worry more for her two sons just going out and about in the community than I worry about what will happen to them at the hands of the police. And I am no fan of the police in general, because I've been hassled and accosted by too many power-tripping assholes with a gun and a badge who just want to scare you and feel like Big Men.

It is true, though, that as 44 year old white lady I bet I'm safe from being shot unarmed in my car at a routine traffic stop.

If you feel I was deflecting, I can promise you that is not my intent. I'm just really, really tired of a society where no one has much value for the lives of others anymore.

I guess that's why I can't weigh in any further, because you're simply going to quote me (for what? You think nothing I said has value, you think I'm going to delete my post, whatever).
I also can promise you that my heart goes out to these victims because we have put so much power in the hands of the police. They have a duty to protect, not to fly off the fucking handle because they got spooked. It's disgusting-- ALL of these deaths disgust me. Every day I see new news about another young black man getting shot, and it's not usually the police who are doing it.

So what can we do to end this? I have no answers. I wish I did.

Fair enough, olan.

I think we all see you as a hurting human being and I think it probably goes without saying that everyone here hurts for any little girl whose father was murdered. It's just beyond words...It's hard to have these discussions about race. Know that I don't see black men, or anyone, as "monsters". I've known many fine black men. Fewer nice cops, but I don't know a lot of those personally.

Now I will bow out and hope that you get that I was not coming from a negative place. I just worry about all of us, as humans, living in a dangerous world.

Hugs, because I feel you need them, even though I'm not the hugging type

In my opinion they MUST speak out because they can't all be bad cops, I'm guessing most of them are good cops trying hard to do what is right.  However, their voices of protest when unspeakable, unthinkable atrocities happen in their ranks (nation-wide, not just locally) would be very powerful.  If we see something wrong, and in this case, deeply wrong, it is our job as upstanding citizens to speak out.  Due to social media and a video camera in most every hand, we have been unequivocally shown that blacks and other people of color do NOT have equal justice under the law, that they are being murdered by LEOs and even when there is proof of said unlawful killing, the bad cops are getting off scott-free in most cases!  Good people must speak up!  It seems like many, if not all, police departments are corrupt and there are examples of when a good cop does speak up, they are shunned and put themselves in danger by doing so.  And that is very wrong, horrible!  That doesn't mean they shouldn't speak up, to me it means ALL of the good cops need to band together to decry the actions of the dirty rotten ones in their midst.  Change usually happens from the inside out in organizations.  Look what happened in Hitler's Germany when millions of good people looked the other way.  As people who know better, we need to stand firm in our convictions and speak truth publicly.  Since many in Law Enforcement are NOT being vocal and strong in their comments on this horrific state of affairs, I think we, the citizenry, need to do it!!!