inkedup
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 9, 2016 1:47:54 GMT
Inked up, have a good night. This thread doesn't deserve to spiral into this tit for tat. I won't be responding to you anymore Agreed that this thread should not be derailed by personal arguments. Have a good night, ~Lauren~. |
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Post by Laurie on Jul 9, 2016 2:17:19 GMT
I have to admit this has been weighing heavily on my mind today. The two men from Louisiana and Minnesota, the Dallas Police Department, the little girl in the backseat of the car and what Olan has been saying on this thread.
Olan, this is only my perspective but perhaps others share it as well. A lot of times my lack of commenting is because I can't even wrap my head around what I feel or think. Even after processing the information more likely than not I am going to end up somewhere in the middle. For example, Trayvon Martin. To this day I can't even fully commit to a "side" because of the conflicting stories. Does that mean I think Zimmerman is a stand up guy who had only pure intentions that night? Definitely not. Do I think Trayvon was a "thug" or looking for trouble that night. Definitely not. How can I try to comment on a message board when I don't even know myself what I am thinking. So I keep my mouth shut and read other peoples opinions hoping that maybe something will make it more clear to me.
A lot of the reason I can't wrap my head around tragedies like this is because I live in South Dakota. We just don't have situations like this here. Not to mention I live in a town of less than 900 people. We don't have a police station. We have two cops and when the one isn't on duty his police car is parked in his driveway. So we don't exactly see police brutality.
FTR on these two latest shootings I think the videos are pretty damning and as of right now I don't see any reason why the officers thought these two men needed to be shot and killed. Sure I will wait for more information to be released to see if my opinion is going to change. However, at this moment I don't see what they could possibly say that will change my mind. Especially in the Castile shooting. He was wearing a seatbelt for crying out loud! Not to mention a 4 year old child in the backseat and my heart does break for that little girl. Her comforting her mom is something that makes me cry.
Normally I wouldn't even post this because I always worry that I am not going to word my thoughts correctly. For every 1 post I have there are at least 5 others posts that I have typed on various topics but always end up deleting. However, I did want you to know Olan that I "hear" what you are saying. I understand what you are trying to convey. I am seeing the bigger picture in this discussion. Like you I want to see something change.
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Jul 9, 2016 2:20:07 GMT
Just watched the news conference and what struck me was how his wife spoke of him almost like she was convincing us he was worthy of not being killed. My life does not have the same value as many of you and it's really starting to piss me off. I diembarked from a plane yesterday at one after a week long vacation of absolutely no news... We were constantly on the go. I spent my evening doing laundry and unpacking and sleeping in today till 11 am (I never do that). Then I signed into facebook to see the chaos I have been missing. I just finished reading this thread and wanted you to know my silence until now should not be construed as not caring. I am guilty of having the "let's wait and see how this plays out" attitude in the past. In the past I've really wanted to believe that everyone sworn and paid to protect the public would have the common sense and morals to provide that service to everyone, despite race and free of profiling. Today I have come to the realization that that is not so. You are absolutely right. You should be pissed! I think you and I have rubbed each other wrong on here before but I want you to know your feelings, your words, your thoughts matter to me and make sense to me. It breaks my heart that you and others are made to feel your lives don't matter and I want you to know it does to me. My words may have no impact or meaning to you but I wanted to share my thoughts. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 9, 2016 2:45:42 GMT
Just watched the news conference and what struck me was how his wife spoke of him almost like she was convincing us he was worthy of not being killed. My life does not have the same value as many of you and it's really starting to piss me off. I diembarked from a plane yesterday at one after a week long vacation of absolutely no news... We were constantly on the go. I spent my evening doing laundry and unpacking and sleeping in today till 11 am (I never do that). Then I signed into facebook to see the chaos I have been missing. I just finished reading this thread and wanted you to know my silence until now should not be construed as not caring. I am guilty of having the "let's wait and see how this plays out" attitude in the past. In the past I've really wanted to believe that everyone sworn and paid to protect the public would have the common sense and morals to provide that service to everyone, despite race and free of profiling. Today I have come to the realization that that is not so. You are absolutely right. You should be pissed! I think you and I have rubbed each other wrong on here before but I want you to know your feelings, your words, your thoughts matter to me and make sense to me. It breaks my heart that you and others are made to feel your lives don't matter and I want you to know it does to me. My words may have no impact or meaning to you but I wanted to share my thoughts. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I get that finding words to say during tense times can be hard. it kinda feels like that's exactly why you came here with the post you hadn't been here since may but you came here with this - was it your intent to make us all feel like shit for things we don't control or condone? gina |
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Post by finally~a~mama on Jul 9, 2016 5:02:44 GMT
I had not been watching the news or on FB the last couple days. Last night I sat down with my laptop to catch up and was horrified by what I saw. All of it is awful. The murder of Philando Castile is especially haunting to me. There was a CHILD in that car and a police officer shot FOUR bullets into that car. That baby saw all of that. What is that going to do her? THEN she saw her mother handcuffed and they were both put in the back of a squad car. THEN she was separated from her mother for HOURS overnight in a police station. I have a little one only a year younger than that little girl and my heart breaks for her.
And I'm pissed. Philando Castile wasn't even driving that car. Right? He was a passenger? Why was he even asked to show ID? Is this something that varies by state? Do you know how many times I have been in the car when my DH got pulled over for speeding? Easily half a dozen. He has a bit of a "lead foot" and when we were broke college students he drove an old car with a speedometer that didn't work properly over 45 miles per hour. NOT ONE TIME was I asked as a passenger to show my ID. Why was Philando Castile?
This should have never happened.
So here I am. Sad, angry and I feel like I need to *do* something. I want to fix this, but I don't know how.
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Post by erinshavonne34 on Jul 9, 2016 5:27:16 GMT
The problem is people like you black don't committ a lot of crimes....Check out FBI crime stats...Media lies
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Post by erinshavonne34 on Jul 9, 2016 5:30:18 GMT
People always say black men committ a lot of crimes and black women are all welfare queens.....but government stats despute this comment yet people still believe it....
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Post by erinshavonne34 on Jul 9, 2016 5:34:27 GMT
If that had been white family in louisana everyone would be outraged...they would be victims...we would be waiting for investigation results
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Post by miominmio on Jul 9, 2016 8:10:43 GMT
If you are using a firearm, you are using it with the understanding that its use may end in death. When you take a firearms class, you are taught that. Shooting your weapon at a person does not mean disarming them or disabling them. You operate under the assumption that you will kill them. Police are no different. It's not like in the movies where sharpshooters can shoot a gun out of someone's hand. Better to train them to approach situations calmly, to de-escalate instead of escalate, to use tools like "verbal judo" to manage situations whenever possible. Police should be working to build relationships within communities so that they are perceived as there to protect. None of this will be easy, but it is necessary. A traffic stop for a broken taillight with a family in a car should not end in a fatality. SaveSaveBut WHY be taught to shoot to kill? Why isn't disabling a person by shooting them in the leg or arm, stopping them in their tracks, enough?  Because the torso is a larger and more stationary target than arms and legs, that's the sad truth. |
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Post by miominmio on Jul 9, 2016 8:17:38 GMT
they actually did catch him he was pulled over in Ballwin and shot the cop in the neck Olan i am not sure if anything we/i say could convince you that it bothers me/us as well we don't have the same perspective because we don't have the same history it feels like you are expecting me/us to fall short gina That's my impression, too. over the years, I'm left with the impression that olan blames all white people for everything that's wrong in her world, and while I understand being angry, sad and all kinds of emotions when something like this happens (and there's no denying there are too many gun related deaths in your country, and that includes those killed by the police), she comes off as being so full of hatred towards those who have another colour on their skin that it completely shuts down any meaningful argument. |
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Post by lovestocreate on Jul 9, 2016 9:47:41 GMT
I had not been watching the news or on FB the last couple days. Last night I sat down with my laptop to catch up and was horrified by what I saw. All of it is awful. The murder of Philando Castile is especially haunting to me. There was a CHILD in that car and a police officer shot FOUR bullets into that car. That baby saw all of that. What is that going to do her? THEN she saw her mother handcuffed and they were both put in the back of a squad car. THEN she was separated from her mother for HOURS overnight in a police station. I have a little one only a year younger than that little girl and my heart breaks for her. And I'm pissed. Philando Castile wasn't even driving that car. Right? He was a passenger? Why was he even asked to show ID? Is this something that varies by state? Do you know how many times I have been in the car when my DH got pulled over for speeding? Easily half a dozen. He has a bit of a "lead foot" and when we were broke college students he drove an old car with a speedometer that didn't work properly over 45 miles per hour. NOT ONE TIME was I asked as a passenger to show my ID. Why was Philando Castile? This should have never happened. So here I am. Sad, angry and I feel like I need to *do* something. I want to fix this, but I don't know how. He was the driver of the vehicle. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 12:25:09 GMT
they actually did catch him he was pulled over in Ballwin and shot the cop in the neck Olan i am not sure if anything we/i say could convince you that it bothers me/us as well we don't have the same perspective because we don't have the same history it feels like you are expecting me/us to fall short gina That's my impression, too. over the years, I'm left with the impression that olan blames all white people for everything that's wrong in her world, and while I understand being angry, sad and all kinds of emotions when something like this happens (and there's no denying there are too many gun related deaths in your country, and that includes those killed by the police), she comes off as being so full of hatred towards those who have another colour on their skin that it completely shuts down any meaningful argument. But do you think a statement like that helps the situation? Only continues to be divisive, IMO. It's hurtful to be on the other side of that opinion. |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 9, 2016 12:25:55 GMT
Olan - instead of actually having a dialogue you feel the need to quote me for posterity (which goes to show you don't know me at all - i don't delete) i might have been the first to mention how i feel but i doubt i am alone i am sorry you are upset and hurt it's not the collective fault of all white woman on 2peas refugees i am not sure why you can't accept the sincerity with which so many people have reached out to you gina
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Post by miominmio on Jul 9, 2016 12:31:00 GMT
That's my impression, too. over the years, I'm left with the impression that olan blames all white people for everything that's wrong in her world, and while I understand being angry, sad and all kinds of emotions when something like this happens (and there's no denying there are too many gun related deaths in your country, and that includes those killed by the police), she comes off as being so full of hatred towards those who have another colour on their skin that it completely shuts down any meaningful argument. But do you think a statement like that helps the situation? Only continues to be divisive, IMO. It's hurtful to be on the other side of that opinion. Of course it isn't helpful, but being judged on the colour of your skin is hurtful no matter what colour you are or the other person is. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 9, 2016 12:49:35 GMT
Olan - instead of actually having a dialogue you feel the need to quote me for posterity (which goes to show you don't know me at all - i don't delete) i might have been the first to mention how i feel but i doubt i am alone i am sorry you are upset and hurt it's not the collective fault of all white woman on 2peas refugees i am not sure why you can't accept the sincerity with which so many people have reached out to you gina they actually did catch him he was pulled over in Ballwin and shot the cop in the neck Olan i am not sure if anything we/i say could convince you that it bothers me/us as well we don't have the same perspective because we don't have the same history it feels like you are expecting me/us to fall short gina That's my impression, too. over the years, I'm left with the impression that olan blames all white people for everything that's wrong in her world, and while I understand being angry, sad and all kinds of emotions when something like this happens (and there's no denying there are too many gun related deaths in your country, and that includes those killed by the police), she comes off as being so full of hatred towards those who have another colour on their skin that it completely shuts down any meaningful argument. Neither of you want to have dialogue. If you believe dialogue begins with your initial responses to this thread you haven't a clue. Look at what you are doing....Olan is an angry black woman snarling on the ground flipping things over yelling at people who only came here to offer a kind word etc. Even when the tone of the thread is clear. Even when I am clearly articulating what I am feeling.That's what you come up with. That's just what you want everyone to believe. This assumptive shit you are "starting dialogue" with is what placates the truth you know about yourself not me. Removing someone's humanity so you can excuse your treatment of them. I won't be going back and forth. |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 9, 2016 12:57:52 GMT
I really wish people would stop telling Olan how to feel and how she should react. Not your job, white people. You (we) DON'T know what it feels like. Just because someone called you a cracker once, or you grew up poor white, or you are the family member of a law enforcement officer (or an LEO yourself) doesn't entitle you to do anything but express your own feelings and leave it at that. You don't get to tell her how to react to your own shit. She's not here to make you feel better about your empathy. She has a right to be sad and angry and afraid, because that is what this country has taught her. Doesn't mean we can't move forward. Doesn't mean we can't have peace. But you cannot tell her how she should feel and when she should feel it. Not that you need me, to defend you, Olan. You don't. I'm sorry this has happened. I'm sorry people don't get it.
Ladies: Check. Your. White. Privilege.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 13:21:11 GMT
But do you think a statement like that helps the situation? Only continues to be divisive, IMO. It's hurtful to be on the other side of that opinion. Of course it isn't helpful, but being judged on the colour of your skin is hurtful no matter what colour you are or the other person is. Or being judged by someone's religion, sexual orientation, etc........ When is it time to stop perpuating the problem and working towards solutions? |
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Post by dulcemama on Jul 9, 2016 13:26:36 GMT
I have not commented on this yet simply because I can't even begin to put into words how horrible I am feeling about this. I tear up every time I think about it.
I also just caught up with reading the thread and wanted to comment on this quote from Olan:
She is so right about the use of the word BUT after saying I'm sorry...it cancels out anything you said before it. And it's something I have heard and taken note of in discussions of race before. It's like we are just unable to say we are sorry without feeling like we have to push any blame away from ourselves. And, to a degree, I understand this. I don't want to be lumped in with a group of people who would do such a thing. But if we cannot let go of that uncomfortable feeling, we can not move forward.
But, as an example: How many times has someone come on here and told us about some negative thing that is going on in their life and we all express our heartfelt "I'm so sorry". No qualifiers. This is where we need to be when talking issues and incidents involving race. We need to be defenseless...without concern for defending ourselves....concern only for expressing our heartfelt "I'm so sorry".
So Olan, I want to say to you, I'm so very sorry that this has happened yet again. I am so very sorry that you have to live in fear for yourself and your children.
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 9, 2016 13:27:26 GMT
OFFS, no one is telling her "how" to feel. Feelings are feelings. However, fact is fact and reality is reality. She may "feel" that people here don't care. Others are telling her that she is wrong; that they do in fact care. The problem has arisen because she refuses to take people at their word. How very condescending of you to assume that people are offering empathy simply so that they can feel good about themselves.
So basically, if people empathize; not good enough. If they don't; they're awful white people who'll never get what it is to be black.
Well you know what lady: Check. Your. Condescension and Superiority.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 9, 2016 13:33:38 GMT
OFFS, no one is telling her "how" to feel. Feelings are feelings. However, fact is fact and reality is reality. She may "feel" that people here don't care. Others are telling her that she is wrong; that they do in fact care. Check. Your. Superiority. No, sorry. Not trying to be superior, and don't you finger wag at me. When I see people accuse Olan of trying to make white people "feel like shit" (and let's just put it out there that ginacivey used the words "us all"... as if Olan is somehow "them," or "other") it's time to check ourselves, I think. Is that not exactly the problem? "Us all." As opposed to "you all," or what, "you people?" Damn. I mean... What? SaveSave |
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 9, 2016 13:35:51 GMT
Yes, you are. You're doing exactly what you're telling me not to do; wagging your finger at us. And you know darn well the "us" refers to the people on this thread other than "Olan". Since she is talking to Olan's about her reaction to the rest of "us" on this thread, her terminology was correct. It's grammatically and situationally proper.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 9, 2016 13:38:09 GMT
OFFS, no one is telling her "how" to feel. Feelings are feelings. However, fact is fact and reality is reality. She may "feel" that people here don't care. Others are telling her that she is wrong; that they do in fact care. The problem has arisen because she refuses to take people at their word. How very condescending of you to assume that people are offering empathy simply so that they can feel good about themselves. So basically, if people empathize; not good enough. If they don't; they're awful white people who'll never get what it is to be black. Well you know what lady: Check. Your. Condescension and Superiority. Oh, I see you went back and added more goodies. Nowhere did I say that anyone is offering empathy to feel good about themselves. What I said is that people don't get to tell her how to react to their empathy. And nowhere did I say empathy was not good enough. I said that we don't get to tell Olan how to feel about any of this and we don't get to get mad at her for her feelings. I mean, Check. Your. Reading. Comprehension. SaveSave |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 9, 2016 13:42:19 GMT
Yes, you are. You're doing exactly what you're telling me not to do; wagging your finger at us. And you know darn well the "us" refers to the people on this thread other than "Olan". Since she is talking to Olan's about her reaction to the rest of "us" on this thread, her terminology was correct. It's grammatically and situationally proper. yes - "us all" is everyone else on the thread don't twist it to meet YOUR agenda ffs - you think YOU get it and somehow, there are those of us that just don't good for you you don't know me or what i 'get' i 'get' that Olan isn't around here much - that much is obvious so why did she come 'here' with her post - it's not like she shares much of her life with the peas i 'get' that Olan doesn't like me - do no matter what i say to her - it's wrong i 'get' that Olan is angry and upset - and i am angry and upset too - but mine doesn't count because i have 'white privilege' i 'do' have 'white privilege' - i was born into it and it's not my fault - and i don't have to hate the fact that i have a different experience than someone else i 'can' empathize with someone even if i don't live the same life Olan doesn't want my empathy or sympathy - that much is clear "you' think you are superior because 'you' somehow 'get it' (edited) - i never tried to tell Olan how to feel - i said that she wants all of us to feel like shit because we 'just don't get it' by virtue of our race |
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 9, 2016 13:45:38 GMT
Yes, you are. You're doing exactly what you're telling me not to do; wagging your finger at us. And you know darn well the "us" refers to the people on this thread other than "Olan". Since she is talking to Olan's about her reaction to the rest of "us" on this thread, her terminology was correct. It's grammatically and situationally proper. yes - "us all" is everyone else on the thread don't twist it to meet YOUR agenda ffs - you think YOU get it and somehow, there are those of us that just don't good for you you don't know me or what i 'get' i 'get' that Olan isn't around here much - that much is obvious so why did she come 'here' with her post - it's not like she shares much of her life with the peas i 'get' that Olan doesn't like me - do no matter what i say to her - it's wrong i 'get' that Olan is angry and upset - and i am angry and upset too - but mine doesn't count because i have 'white privilege' i 'do' have 'white privilege' - i was born into it and it's not my fault - and i don't have to hate the fact that i have a different experience than someone else i 'can' empathize with someone even if i don't live the same life Olan doesn't want my empathy or sympathy - that much is clear "you' think you are superior because 'you' somehow 'get it' No, I don't pretend to get it. I will NEVER get it. I'm not superior. But, I think it's really shitty that you comment on Olan's frequency of posting and then get ass hurt that she shared her feelings about this. It's gross. Someone else could not post for a year, come on here and share something and she'd get nothing but support. Just think about what you're saying. Really think about it. SaveSave |
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 9, 2016 13:50:25 GMT
The implication is clear that people are empathizing only to feel good about themselves. Because white people couldn't possibly offer a black woman empathy simply for the sake of offering empathy.
And the line about empathy not being good enough was clearly about Olan's responses; not what you said.
As you indicated Check. Your . Reading. Comprehension.
Better yet, offer your empathy to Olan in any way you see fit without telling the rest of us how to do it and how to feel about it.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 9, 2016 13:52:16 GMT
I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm saying, Lauren. I wish there was a way I could explain myself better, but I don't know how to do that for you.
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Post by miominmio on Jul 9, 2016 14:00:30 GMT
Of course it isn't helpful, but being judged on the colour of your skin is hurtful no matter what colour you are or the other person is. Or being judged by someone's religion, sexual orientation, etc........ When is it time to stop perpuating the problem and working towards solutions? Well, I'm constantly judged by my religion..... the thing is: it doesn't seem that olan is interested in anything other than lashing out at all the women here who are offering their empathy, and it confuses me, to be honest. I don't judge anyone based on their religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity or nationality, but then I don't think someone is wonderful based solely on those criteria either (which to me is patronising and just as bad). If I like you, it will be based solely on the person YOU are, and if I don't it's because of you, too. There are assholes in any group of people, no matter how you define that particular group. Why can't we value people based on WHO they are, not WHAT they are? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jul 9, 2016 14:19:06 GMT
I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm saying, Lauren. I wish there was a way I could explain myself better, but I don't know how to do that for you. I want to adequately thank you and DulceMama before too many more pages pass but I am on my phone. Really thank you so much for getting it. My friend always says "Not that you needed it" hahaha it would seem that way but when someone stands up anyway it really touches you. Ive been a member here at twopeas since I was 19 or 20. Late nights with you guys when I should have been socializing so I totally get not having the right words to say. That's my life. That's what kinda brought me here. It's what will make this sound jumbled. Gina will tell you I've never shared anything personal and I haven't been here since May (posting history check) again to remove my humanity. To make it easy to not care. I didn't want anyone to come here and tell me how they really felt. I want you to examine how that may negatively impact people who look like me. Make a small change. Realize your shortcomings and make room for them. You can simply glance down at the ground instead of grimacing at my nephew so he doesn't think something is wrong with him. It's a disgusting thing to have placed at your feet. I get it. I've experienced that too. It's a disgusting thing to live this life though |
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ginacivey
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refupea #2 in southeast missouri
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Post by ginacivey on Jul 9, 2016 14:38:17 GMT
Olani pm'd you because i believe our issues aren't with this actual thread gina
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~Lauren~
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jul 9, 2016 15:25:12 GMT
"
Gina will tell you I've never shared anything personal and I haven't been here since May (posting history check) again to remove my humanity. To make it easy to not care. I didn't want anyone to come here and tell me how they really feltl[/quote]
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This is bull. Gina and I rarely see eye to eye and don't particularly care for each other but I certainly know her well enough to know that she would not in anyway try to dehumanize you.
The point is that you don't share anything with yourself yet you come here after several month in order to lash out at white people about an incident that took place this week.
She was questioning your motivation for coming here now and for the sole purpose of appearing to berate people or demand they behave or think the way you feel they should.
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My original pea date was November 1999 and my number was 1803