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Post by lisae on Oct 2, 2016 18:11:47 GMT
Trump's surrogates, Giuliani and Christie, are trying to spin this story as a good thing. My questions are this:
1) If it is such a good thing that you can figure out how to take advantage of tax law and pay no taxes at all for years on millions - perhaps hundreds of millions - in income, then why hide it. Why has he not shared this information before (assuming it is accurate) and bragged about it? I mean if he can stand in middle of 5th Avenue and shoot someone and not lose any votes, as he has said, then this shouldn't be a big deal, right?
2) The document shows a nearly $1 Billion dollar loss. Is this supposed to convince us he is a great businessman?
3) As I've asked before, if he is being audited for 2015, why not release another past year? He says he routinely gets audited so past years should have already been audited. He could even go back a few years. The IRS can only go back so many years in an audit.
The ONLY experience Trump has to offer up is his business experience and he continually fails to supply any specific, verifiable information at all that he is a financial genius that can utilize his skills to benefit the country. We only see evidence of his ability to utilize the law to make himself wealthy and avoid responsibility to others and to his country.
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Post by tlsmi on Oct 2, 2016 18:49:29 GMT
OK, I admit I was a Bernie girl, but I do like when Hillary gets cheeky. 'The Trump 'smart' tax calculator: link |
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Post by JustKim on Oct 2, 2016 19:22:53 GMT
the news reported this morning that his taxes have not been released so I will take the article with a grain of salt. I honestly could care less about his taxes and more about the safety of our country. I also think it is sad that there are so many jokes about either party. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when we think our top leader is someone to make fun of.
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Post by annabella on Oct 2, 2016 19:27:13 GMT
Based on the thread title "And we finally see a trump tax return!" I clicked on the link and the tax return is from 1995, the one Clinton already told us is public. Did Trump finally release his 2015 tax return, the we've been waiting on?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 20:03:58 GMT
He really is starting to become unhinged....after the NY Times released that story (which came from Trump Tower, by the way), he responded at a rally in Pennsylvania with this.... Trump imitates Clinton stumbling when ill with pneumoniaHis supporters should be so proud....first a disabled person and now this.....he's a piece of shit. From that article:  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 20:33:29 GMT
He lost millions of his money, but she lost Billions of OUR money.
In running the State Department, she was cited for "significant financial risk and . . . a lack of internal control." by the State Department’s inspector general and most recently the head of the FBI called her "extremely careless". When she's incompetent to run the State Department, how is that supposed to convince us she's competent and qualified to run the country?
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,748 
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Post by jayfab on Oct 2, 2016 20:45:49 GMT
the news reported this morning that his taxes have not been released so I will take the article with a grain of salt. I honestly could care less about his taxes and more about the safety of our country. I also think it is sad that there are so many jokes about either party. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when we think our top leader is someone to make fun of. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when Trump disparages or makes fun of the disabled, the sick, our veterans and the parents of fallen veterans?  ?? ETC ETC ETC SaveSave |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 2, 2016 21:46:40 GMT
He lost millions of his money, but she lost Billions of OUR money. In running the State Department, she was cited for "significant financial risk and . . . a lack of internal control." by the State Department’s inspector general and most recently the head of the FBI called her "extremely careless". When she's incompetent to run the State Department, how is that supposed to convince us she's competent and qualified to run the country? Once again, Gia, your so called presentation of "facts" is inaccurate. SHE did NOT "lose" billions of our tax payer dollars. If you'd bother to pull your head out of the far right propaganda, or actually read a valid source.. You would find that paperwork NOT money was not in the proper contract files. The state department was dinged for control over the documents, however it was the DOD who spent the dollars (and may not have provided the necessary receipts/paperwork to the state dept.) It's your opinion that she is incompetent---the report did not state that she was just to clarify. If I'm not mistaken, all of this "missing" $6 billion has also been accounted for as to where it should properly be. "Almost all of the nearly $6.6 billion worth of U.S. currency that went missing in the early days of the Iraq conflict has now been accounted for, according to a new report from the office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, cited by CNN. " |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 2, 2016 21:57:27 GMT
That's pretty crap journalism frankly. A few pages of returns that were sent anonymously for 1995 and then paragraph after paragraph of raw speculation on what it MIGHT mean. If anyone was under any confusion that there were years when Trump paid no income taxes, you're not familiar with the tax code. His businesses have gone through several well publicized financial difficulties over various times. If you don't make any income - and even more so lose huge chunks of money in a year, you don't pay taxes that year. How long those losses carried forward and how much his subsequent income was - is all unknown and the article included several sensational claims that are just pure speculation. Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani are treating it as real and making public statements about how brilliant Trump is for finding a way to not pay taxes for all those years. So, apparently it isn't being treated as crap journalism by leaders in the GOP. Well there's a whole lot of morons in the leaders of the GOP, so I'm not surprised. The author doesn't understand the difference between a balance sheet and income statement and intros this article with an ominous voice over video that auto plays (which an aside, I detest website that autoplay their videos) - yeah I'll stand by my crap journalism. There are very, very few journalists who understand finance and tax issues well enough to write about them - it's really apparent when a political reporter attempts - this is a pretty typical combination of sensationalizing the mundane and wildly speculating when you have no actual facts. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 2, 2016 22:09:45 GMT
And as another aside, I am shocked his accountant/tax attorney (he's identified as both in various places in the Times article) would divulge anything - even the "it looks legit" and discussion of using a type writer as the tax software didn't have enough digits. It's extremely serious to breach the confidentiality of a client.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 22:16:36 GMT
Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani are treating it as real and making public statements about how brilliant Trump is for finding a way to not pay taxes for all those years. So, apparently it isn't being treated as crap journalism by leaders in the GOP. Well there's a whole lot of morons in the leaders of the GOP, so I'm not surprised. The author doesn't understand the difference between a balance sheet and income statement and intros this article with an ominous voice over video that auto plays (which an aside, I detest website that autoplay their videos) - yeah I'll stand by my crap journalism. There are very, very few journalists who understand finance and tax issues well enough to write about them - it's really apparent when a political reporter attempts - this is a pretty typical combination of sensationalizing the mundane and wildly speculating when you have no actual facts. Then the issue can be resolved when Trump, like every other presidential candidate since Nixon, releases his tax returns. I'm sure there are enough financial experts that can tell us what is on the tax returns and what it means in a dummy version. Until then the narrative will continue to grow Trump hasn't paid taxes since he lost $900m. Yes I know nothing has been proven but that doesn't stop people speculating. Or wondering just exactly what is Trump hiding on his tax returns. |
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Post by gramasue on Oct 2, 2016 22:32:38 GMT
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:06:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 22:37:51 GMT
Well there's a whole lot of morons in the leaders of the GOP, so I'm not surprised. The author doesn't understand the difference between a balance sheet and income statement and intros this article with an ominous voice over video that auto plays (which an aside, I detest website that autoplay their videos) - yeah I'll stand by my crap journalism. There are very, very few journalists who understand finance and tax issues well enough to write about them - it's really apparent when a political reporter attempts - this is a pretty typical combination of sensationalizing the mundane and wildly speculating when you have no actual facts. Then the issue can be resolved when Trump, like every other presidential candidate since Nixon, releases his tax returns. I'm sure there are enough financial experts that can tell us what is on the tax returns and what it means in a dummy version. Until then the narrative will continue to grow Trump hasn't paid taxes since he lost $900m. Yes I know nothing has been proven but that doesn't stop people speculating. Or wondering just exactly what is Trump hiding on his tax returns. Perfectly said krazy......then Heir Trump can squash the "sensationalizing the mundane and wildly speculating when you have no facts" defense. Easy peasey. |
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Oct 2, 2016 23:34:56 GMT
the news reported this morning that his taxes have not been released so I will take the article with a grain of salt. I honestly could care less about his taxes and more about the safety of our country. I also think it is sad that there are so many jokes about either party. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when we think our top leader is someone to make fun of. The accountant who filed the return verified its validity. Our country is not safe if a president is beholden to foreign leaders. Trump can't get a loan here. Where do you think he's getting his money? (Hint: Might rhyme with Prussia.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 0:07:16 GMT
He lost millions of his money, but she lost Billions of OUR money. In running the State Department, she was cited for "significant financial risk and . . . a lack of internal control." by the State Department’s inspector general and most recently the head of the FBI called her "extremely careless". When she's incompetent to run the State Department, how is that supposed to convince us she's competent and qualified to run the country? Once again, Gia, your so called presentation of "facts" is inaccurate. SHE did NOT "lose" billions of our tax payer dollars. If you'd bother to pull your head out of the far right propaganda, or actually read a valid source.. You would find that paperwork NOT money was not in the proper contract files. The state department was dinged for control over the documents, however it was the DOD who spent the dollars (and may not have provided the necessary receipts/paperwork to the state dept.) It's your opinion that she is incompetent---the report did not state that she was just to clarify. If I'm not mistaken, all of this "missing" $6 billion has also been accounted for as to where it should properly be.
"Almost all of the nearly $6.6 billion worth of U.S. currency that went missing in the early days of the Iraq conflict has now been accounted for, according to a new report from the office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, cited by CNN. "Can you just talk to me? Does everything have to be a full on personal assault to get your point across? Where is your quote from? It doesn't appear to be the same money that Hillary's State Deportment lost. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 3, 2016 0:38:14 GMT
Once again, Gia, your so called presentation of "facts" is inaccurate. SHE did NOT "lose" billions of our tax payer dollars. If you'd bother to pull your head out of the far right propaganda, or actually read a valid source.. You would find that paperwork NOT money was not in the proper contract files. The state department was dinged for control over the documents, however it was the DOD who spent the dollars (and may not have provided the necessary receipts/paperwork to the state dept.) It's your opinion that she is incompetent---the report did not state that she was just to clarify. If I'm not mistaken, all of this "missing" $6 billion has also been accounted for as to where it should properly be.
"Almost all of the nearly $6.6 billion worth of U.S. currency that went missing in the early days of the Iraq conflict has now been accounted for, according to a new report from the office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, cited by CNN. "Can you just talk to me? Does everything have to be a full on personal assault to get your point across? Where is your quote from? It doesn't appear to be the same money that Hillary's State Deportment lost. Full on assault? Hardly. Not even close. And again, she did not lose any actual funds, no matter how many times you say it that (misleading) way. My source was cited. Where is YOUR source? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 3, 2016 0:41:36 GMT
And as another aside, I am shocked his accountant/tax attorney (he's identified as both in various places in the Times article) would divulge anything - even the "it looks legit" and discussion of using a type writer as the tax software didn't have enough digits. It's extremely serious to breach the confidentiality of a client. I think that his comments came out of asserting the validity of his signature on the form--granted if not permissible he shouldn't have said more than "yes, that's my signature " |
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Oct 3, 2016 1:04:15 GMT
Here's a story outlining the events at the New York Times. The tax records just showed up in a reporter's mailbox eight days ago. Story |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 1:12:07 GMT
Can you just talk to me? Does everything have to be a full on personal assault to get your point across? Where is your quote from? It doesn't appear to be the same money that Hillary's State Deportment lost. Full on assault? Hardly. Not even close. And again, she did not lose any actual funds, no matter how many times you say it that (misleading) way. My source was cited. Where is YOUR source? Your quote included the words "cited by CNN" which isn't something that CNN itself would say, so it looked like a quote from a source other than CNN that's why I asked. It appears your quote is from Huffington Post, which you did not cite, but okay. My source was the Washington Post . It's not misleading in any way to say $6 billion in contracting money over the past six years cannot be properly accounted for. That's what happened according to the State Department’s inspector general. What it comes down to, for me is, if you SAY you spent $6 billion, but don’t have the paperwork to prove it, then yes, you’ve lost 6 billion dollars. |
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Post by JustKim on Oct 3, 2016 1:15:00 GMT
the news reported this morning that his taxes have not been released so I will take the article with a grain of salt. I honestly could care less about his taxes and more about the safety of our country. I also think it is sad that there are so many jokes about either party. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when we think our top leader is someone to make fun of. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when Trump disparages or makes fun of the disabled, the sick, our veterans and the parents of fallen veterans? ?? ETC ETC ETC SaveSaveI completely agree. I am sad by many things going on in our country. Taxes are not one of those issues I would want to debate right now. Lost lives and taking care of our people should be a top priority on both sides of the political agendas. |
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Post by JustKim on Oct 3, 2016 1:19:33 GMT
the news reported this morning that his taxes have not been released so I will take the article with a grain of salt. I honestly could care less about his taxes and more about the safety of our country. I also think it is sad that there are so many jokes about either party. What does that tell our country and the rest of the world when we think our top leader is someone to make fun of. The accountant who filed the return verified its validity. Our country is not safe if a president is beholden to foreign leaders. Trump can't get a loan here. Where do you think he's getting his money? (Hint: Might rhyme with Prussia.) ok, I believe you. I just heard on the news this am that they were not verified??. I do believe that one report will say one thing and the other another. I think our country is having many issues now and I hope somethings changes quickly so more people are helped who need it and the killings stop. My small community lost lives to a mall shooting last week. I feel sad for all involved. |
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scrapgirl
Junior Member
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Post by scrapgirl on Oct 3, 2016 1:22:30 GMT
Here's my question. As a non-American looking at this from the outside, I am wondering why you (general you) are not mad at a tax code that allows the wealthy to get away with paying no taxes instead of misdirecting your anger at Trump?
Lord knows there are more than enough things to be disgusted, angry, etc. with him about, but to me, I just don't see how this is one of them. In my entire life I've never met anyone who has paid more in taxes than they are legally obligated to do. And, in fact, most people who have businesses (be they large or small) employ an accountant who is trained to help the business owner take advantage of every possible tax loop-hole in order to reduce their end of year tax payment. It's the tax code that is broken.
And lest anyone think I am trying to pick on the US, I live in Canada, and feel the same way about our tax code. I would love to see a flat tax brought in.
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Post by txdancermom on Oct 3, 2016 1:53:25 GMT
Most successful business people I know do not find it a "badge of honor" that they have such enormous losses in one year.
His boast that not paying taxes is smart is insulting.
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Dalia
Junior Member
Posts: 54
Aug 30, 2016 4:43:30 GMT
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Post by Dalia on Oct 3, 2016 2:06:45 GMT
That's pretty crap journalism frankly. A few pages of returns that were sent anonymously for 1995 and then paragraph after paragraph of raw speculation on what it MIGHT mean. If anyone was under any confusion that there were years when Trump paid no income taxes, you're not familiar with the tax code. His businesses have gone through several well publicized financial difficulties over various times. If you don't make any income - and even more so lose huge chunks of money in a year, you don't pay taxes that year. How long those losses carried forward and how much his subsequent income was - is all unknown and the article included several sensational claims that are just pure speculation. Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani are treating it as real and making public statements about how brilliant Trump is for finding a way to not pay taxes for all those years. So, apparently it isn't being treated as crap journalism by leaders in the GOP. Let's not forget that when Hillary mentioned that he hasn't paid taxes in years, he didn't denied it. He simply stated "it makes me smart". |
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Post by Merge on Oct 3, 2016 2:14:01 GMT
Here's my question. As a non-American looking at this from the outside, I am wondering why you (general you) are not mad at a tax code that allows the wealthy to get away with paying no taxes instead of misdirecting your anger at Trump? Lord knows there are more than enough things to be disgusted, angry, etc. with him about, but to me, I just don't see how this is one of them. In my entire life I've never met anyone who has paid more in taxes than they are legally obligated to do. And, in fact, most people who have businesses (be they large or small) employ an accountant who is trained to help the business owner take advantage of every possible tax loop-hole in order to reduce their end of year tax payment. It's the tax code that is broken. And lest anyone think I am trying to pick on the US, I live in Canada, and feel the same way about our tax code. I would love to see a flat tax brought in. I think most of us who favor a progressive tax rate ARE angry at a tax code that allows the wealthy to get away with paying no taxes. Hillary supports a fair tax system that closes the loopholes that have allowed Trump to get away with this - and actual smart billionaires like Warren Buffet support her. We're also mad at billionaires who pay no taxes, but are running for president for a party that regularly vilifies the poor who do not pay taxes as "leeches on the system." You cannot simultaneously be angry that someone making $11/hr does not pay taxes, and employ every loophole available to make sure your billionaire butt also pays no taxes. Well, you can - but it makes you a giant hypocrite. The problem with a flat tax is that the 10% (or whatever rate) is a much bigger burden for the lower and middle classes than it is for the upper classes. The same if you do it as a consumption tax. There is only so much that one person can or will buy - the very rich are much more likely to save large amounts of money, and if they do, they will never be taxed on those earnings. A progressive tax is necessary both to evenly share the burden of running our country and to make sure that we actually have the funds to do so. And if there are a lot of billionaires like Trump out there not paying any taxes at all, it becomes clear to me what we need to to do first to balance our federal budget. If you're going to benefit from the free market and all this country has to offer, you can damn well help pay to keep it running. If I can do it on a school teacher's salary, so can Donald Trump. |
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Post by lucyg on Oct 3, 2016 2:18:42 GMT
Here's my question. As a non-American looking at this from the outside, I am wondering why you (general you) are not mad at a tax code that allows the wealthy to get away with paying no taxes instead of misdirecting your anger at Trump? Lord knows there are more than enough things to be disgusted, angry, etc. with him about, but to me, I just don't see how this is one of them. In my entire life I've never met anyone who has paid more in taxes than they are legally obligated to do. And, in fact, most people who have businesses (be they large or small) employ an accountant who is trained to help the business owner take advantage of every possible tax loop-hole in order to reduce their end of year tax payment. It's the tax code that is broken. And lest anyone think I am trying to pick on the US, I live in Canada, and feel the same way about our tax code. I would love to see a flat tax brought in. I think most of us who favor a progressive tax rate ARE angry at a tax code that allows the wealthy to get away with paying no taxes. Hillary supports a fair tax system that closes the loopholes that have allowed Trump to get away with this - and actual smart billionaires like Warren Buffet support her. We're also mad at billionaires who pay no taxes, but are running for president for a party that regularly vilifies the poor who do not pay taxes as "leeches on the system." You cannot simultaneously be angry that someone making $11/hr does not pay taxes, and employ every loophole available to make sure your billionaire butt also pays no taxes. Well, you can - but it makes you a giant hypocrite. The problem with a flat tax is that the 10% (or whatever rate) is a much bigger burden for the lower and middle classes than it is for the upper classes. The same if you do it as a consumption tax. There is only so much that one person can or will buy - the very rich are much more likely to save large amounts of money, and if they do, they will never be taxed on those earnings. A progressive tax is necessary both to evenly share the burden of running our country and to make sure that we actually have the funds to do so. And if there are a lot of billionaires like Trump out there not paying any taxes at all, it becomes clear to me what we need to to do first to balance our federal budget. If you're going to benefit from the free market and all this country has to offer, you can damn well help pay to keep it running. If I can do it on a school teacher's salary, so can Donald Trump. I just can't love this post enough. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 3, 2016 2:44:17 GMT
Full on assault? Hardly. Not even close. And again, she did not lose any actual funds, no matter how many times you say it that (misleading) way. My source was cited. Where is YOUR source? Your quote included the words "cited by CNN" which isn't something that CNN itself would say, so it looked like a quote from a source other than CNN that's why I asked. It appears your quote is from Huffington Post, which you did not cite, but okay. My source was the Washington Post . It's not misleading in any way to say $6 billion in contracting money over the past six years cannot be properly accounted for. That's what happened according to the State Department’s inspector general. What it comes down to, for me is, if you SAY you spent $6 billion, but don’t have the paperwork to prove it, then yes, you’ve lost 6 billion dollars. I pulled from Washington post and I believe it is the same funds for Iraq rebuilding, of which the paperwork is in order and nothing lost. |
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: The Grand Canyon
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Oct 3, 2016 2:45:40 GMT
People are arguing that what he has done is legal, but take a closer look at the Trump Foundation and some of those illegal dealings (enough that the NY attorney general launched an investigation). It is the hypocrisy that kills me. Poor people not paying taxes or being seen as taking advantage of a system are low life and leeches, yet rich white guys are smart for doing the same things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 2:57:58 GMT
The accountant who filed the return verified its validity. Our country is not safe if a president is beholden to foreign leaders. Trump can't get a loan here. Where do you think he's getting his money? (Hint: Might rhyme with Prussia.) ok, I believe you. I just heard on the news this am that they were not verified??. I do believe that one report will say one thing and the other another. I think our country is having many issues now and I hope somethings changes quickly so more people are helped who need it and the killings stop. My small community lost lives to a mall shooting last week. I feel sad for all involved. They campaign's own statement authenticates them. If they were falsified, I feel certain the statement would be very different. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 4:10:15 GMT
Your quote included the words "cited by CNN" which isn't something that CNN itself would say, so it looked like a quote from a source other than CNN that's why I asked. It appears your quote is from Huffington Post, which you did not cite, but okay. My source was the Washington Post . It's not misleading in any way to say $6 billion in contracting money over the past six years cannot be properly accounted for. That's what happened according to the State Department’s inspector general. What it comes down to, for me is, if you SAY you spent $6 billion, but don’t have the paperwork to prove it, then yes, you’ve lost 6 billion dollars. I pulled from Washington post and I believe it is the same funds for Iraq rebuilding, of which the paperwork is in order and nothing lost. Just to be clear, this is written with no snark or ill will intended: Your quote: "Almost all of the nearly $6.6 billion worth of U.S. currency that went missing in the early days of the Iraq conflict has now been accounted for, according to a new report from the office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, cited by CNN." is from this article in Huffington Post, so I'm unclear as to what you're saying you pulled from The Washington Post. LINKAnyhow, first, the timelines don't match and they are talking about money lost during "the early days of the Iraq conflict", so that had nothing to do with Hillary. Second, the article saying they found the money was written 3 years before they reported that Hillary's State Department lost it. Clearly you're talking about 2 different events that have nothing to do with each other and the money Hillary lost, is still lost. So, I'll stand by my original statement in response to: He lost millions of his money, but she lost Billions of OUR money. In running the State Department, she, as head of her department, was cited for "significant financial risk and . . . a lack of internal control." by the State Department’s inspector general and most recently the head of the FBI called her "extremely careless". When she's incompetent in running the State Department, how is that supposed to convince us she's competent and qualified to run the country? |
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