Deleted
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Oct 8, 2024 14:15:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 2:15:08 GMT
James Brady, Ronald Reagan's press secretary who was shot in 1981, passed away earlier this week at the age of 73. Today a Virginia medical examiner ruled his death a homicide as the result of a gunshot wound. Police are investigating and trying to decide if John Hinckley should be charged with murder. Should he be charged 30 years later? Or was Brady's death a natural consequence of aging? Is this investigation a waste of time?
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Post by tuva42 on Aug 9, 2014 2:16:45 GMT
Wow, that seems to me to be stretching it.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 9, 2014 2:19:09 GMT
They are probably collaterally estopped from charging him since he was found not guilty by reason of insanity based on the same underlying facts.
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Post by Skypea on Aug 9, 2014 2:19:19 GMT
was his death the direct result of the gunshot? Hasn't he been alive these past 30 or so yrs? Seems out of line to me.
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Post by sillyrabbit on Aug 9, 2014 2:21:44 GMT
Wow...I didn't see that coming. Interesting.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Aug 9, 2014 2:21:54 GMT
What a stretch. No way this death would have been ruled a homicide had the decedent not been a public figure.
John Hinkley is a terrible person, but he was charged with the appropriate crimes at the time he committed them.
May James Brady rest in peace and may his family find peace and comfort, too.
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Anita
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Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Aug 9, 2014 2:23:05 GMT
That's just bizarre.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 9, 2014 2:23:33 GMT
I read about this earlier today. The article I read intimated that there were political reasons behind the ruling of the medical examiner (I didn't know that medical examiners *had* politics) but I couldn't puzzle out the reasons why.
From what I read, Hinkley isn't getting out, but maybe they are worried that he will? I think I probably need more information before I change my mind from it being a very curious situation.
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Post by traceys on Aug 9, 2014 2:28:43 GMT
I don't have any particular sympathy for John Hinkley in this situation, but it seems odd to me also to classify his death this way thirty some odd years after the incident.
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Post by scrapqueen01 on Aug 9, 2014 2:30:18 GMT
I read this today too and I'm very confused. I have a criminal justice degree and this was never discussed in my classes. I don't see how it could be ruled homicide after 30+ years. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can explain.
As far as Hinkley is concerned I thought he was charged with attempted murder and found not guilty by reason of insanity. If Brady's death can be considered a homicide then I guess Hinkley can be charged with murder and it not be considered double jeopardy.
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QueenoftheSloths
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Jun 26, 2014 0:29:24 GMT
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 9, 2014 2:44:38 GMT
I don't know what his actual cause of death was. But hypothetically, let's say this was the situation. He was shot, confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. As a result of being in the wheelchair, he developed bedsores. Sores became infected, he died from the infection. Direct result of the gunshot wound? Well, he wouldn't have been in the wheelchair without the gunshot wound, so I say yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 2:47:35 GMT
Hinkley was charged with assault with intent to kill so its not double jeopardy. I'm not sure about the statute of limitations but there might not be one in this case.
I think if the death is directly related then it's a fair finding. I know my dad's death certificate says that it was accidental even though it happened a few months after the fact. I believe The coroner only has four choices ...natural, accidental, homicide, or suicide. I think it's only fair to his family and history to have it properly recorded regardless of whether Hinkley gets charged. That's a separate issue than manner of death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 2:47:36 GMT
DH and I were just discussing this earlier this evening. Still not sure what to think about it, but it will be interesting to see how this progresses.
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Post by Kelpea on Aug 9, 2014 3:14:52 GMT
I read the comments (and boy they were getting crazy!) on the NBC 4 Washington link on FB. Someone who was rather intelligently versed in the medical field stated it is a legitimate ruling as to the cause of death because of the resulting issues with Brady's body due to the shooting. I believe it to be a correct ruling as well, with no thought to any political agenda(s) which are being bandied about (with no respect to the memory of Jim Brady or to his family, btw).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 3:26:10 GMT
I have no problem with it. Mr. Brady had to suffer for 30 plus years because of what Hinckley did. When I first heard it, I was shocked, but after consideration, I think it's fair.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 3:31:03 GMT
There's a difference between manner of death and cause of death.
Manner is natural, accidental, homicide or suicide.
Cause is something along the lines of heart failure, anyurism, suffocation, gunshot, etc. It's the disease or injury that caused the manner of death.
I think it's a matter of incorrectly using the two terms interchangeably.
ETA: Undetermined can also be a manner of death.
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Aug 9, 2014 3:34:15 GMT
I'm as anti-gun as it gets, and I think that is ridiculous; a waste of time and resources, and not helpful for anyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 3:38:03 GMT
I haven't read the article but does it specifically say they are going to charge Hinkley?
A ruling of homicide by the ME doesn't mean it will be legally charged. Two different issues. It's not a waste of time-it is a mandatory finding of manner of death.
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Post by Kelpea on Aug 9, 2014 3:44:14 GMT
Burning Feather, I don't see anything of potential charges as of yet; just the ME's ruling of a homicide. (And of course, you're right: by law an investigation must be opened since it's ruled a homicide, so it's coming; just exactly what charge remains to be seen.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 3:53:46 GMT
I think they're going to charge him in order to keep Hinkley locked up. NBC did a story tonight on this and said hinkleys family has petitioned for "extended visits" with his family in Williamsburg.
I am not sure anyone wants him out.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 9, 2014 4:22:01 GMT
I agree with everything Burning Feather has posted here. A homicide finding isn't necessarily connected to murder charges. I think people are reading more into this than is necessarily there.
ETA if he died of the lingering effects of injuries he sustained when he was shot in 1981, then it is very fair to label his death a homicide, even if there is no intention or possibility of charging Hinckley with his death at this late date.
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Post by scrapqueen01 on Aug 9, 2014 4:36:22 GMT
Even if Hinkley is charged with murder it's very likely he could be still be found insane which would insure that he doesn't get to leave the hospital ever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 5:28:35 GMT
Even if Hinkley is charged with murder it's very likely he could be still be found insane which would insure that he doesn't get to leave the hospital ever. Hinkley leaves the hosital now. His family is pushing for even more time away,
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Post by lucyg on Aug 9, 2014 6:08:23 GMT
Even if Hinkley is charged with murder it's very likely he could be still be found insane which would insure that he doesn't get to leave the hospital ever. Hinkley leaves the hosital now. His family is pushing for even more time away, I've read that, too. I can't believe that someone who very nearly managed to kill a sitting U.S. president is ever allowed out in public.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 6:19:59 GMT
Hinkley leaves the hosital now. His family is pushing for even more time away, I've read that, too. I can't believe that someone who very nearly managed to kill a sitting U.S. president is ever allowed out in public. Quite a lot too. My guess is that if there's no statute issues they will just hold the charge as security for the future and not waste resources at this point. The mere fact that it's a possible charge is a negotiating point to keep him in custody and gives his attorneys much less bargaining power.
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cycworker
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Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 9, 2014 6:37:38 GMT
I immediately thought it was a tactic to keep Hinckley from getting further time away from the hospital. More to the point, if he's well enough to leave the hospital, he's well enough to stand trial.
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Post by Memo on Aug 9, 2014 6:49:38 GMT
I think they're going to charge him in order to keep Hinkley locked up. NBC did a story tonight on this and said hinkleys family has petitioned for "extended visits" with his family in Williamsburg. I am not sure anyone wants him out. I saw this same story on NBC. The article stated that Hinckley's family has petitioned and were granted visits up to 24 days a month! Maybe this new ruling of homicide will help curtail such visits.
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Post by scrapsuzy on Aug 9, 2014 9:43:33 GMT
I think the finding by the ME is completely justified.
Not guilty by reason of insanity means that he is considered to have been insane at the time of the crime. Doesn't mean he is considered insane now. Heck, I don't even like that verdict being allowed, because no SANE person commits murder, IMNSHO.
I think he should be charged with murder, and should not be allowed out of the facility at all.
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Post by PinkPrincess77 on Aug 9, 2014 10:43:08 GMT
What a stretch. No way this death would have been ruled a homicide had the decedent not been a public figure. John Hinkley is a terrible person, but he was charged with the appropriate crimes at the time he committed them. May James Brady rest in peace and may his family find peace and comfort, too. I disagree. I recently read a story where a father was charged with homicide when his daughter died because she died at a much younger age than she should have and due to complications from some severe abuse she had received from him 15-ish years before, which put her in a bedridden, semi-vegetative state. I'll have to find the article, but she was a "no one" to anyone but her family.
ETA: I don't know if this is the same one, but very similar details - www.wsmv.com/story/25974755/dad-faces-murder-charge-after-daughters-death
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Post by gonewalkabout on Aug 9, 2014 12:26:15 GMT
If a death occurred *due* to the commission of a crime, though at the time the charge was 'attempted murder' the charge itself would not be contested as double jeopardy because A) a death has now occurred B) the death was a result of the crime C) the new charge is now murder, as it resulted directly due to the commission of a crime, attempted murder.
What I think they'd be up against is the 'insanity' plea, duration of time passed, though I'm not sure there is any statute of limitation for a murder charge.
If the held suspect is duly able to stand trial and found competent to stand trial, that is, not said to be insane any longer, the charge may stick.
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