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Post by Merge on Oct 31, 2016 21:51:48 GMT
In Texas attendance is not only tied to funding (that's a federal thing, BTW, not a state thing) but also to our school ratings. Makes perfect sense, huh? We teachers have total control over whether or not your kid shows up to school, so of course let's rate the school based on that among many other things.
So yeah, attendance incentives are common here.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Oct 31, 2016 22:04:39 GMT
I'm not a fan of perfect attendance awards. To me they mean one of two things - a kid has a natural immunity off the charts, which is nothing he deserves an award for, or two, he was sent to school sick multiple times, potentially infecting his classmates and school staff.
But, I am a fan of kids being in the class seat unless they are sick. Missing school has a much bigger impact than most parents realize. Not only for their child, but for others in that school.
Today I spent 30 minutes gathering work for a child that will be out this week. He's been suspended. His poor behavior cost me 1/3 of my planning period. Which kept me from finishing the enrichment activity that I was going to give tomorrow. It was based on Friday's test scores and I can't give it to 33 students because of the time I had to devote to making up a packet of work. I could have stayed after school even longer to get it done, but then I wouldn't have made it home for Halloween happenings. So one student's make up work would either cost 33 kids a helpful activity or my own family time. If that had been a student who was going on a vacation, I wouldn't have spent the 30 minutes on gathering work.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on Oct 31, 2016 22:25:41 GMT
There are two separate attendance issues: school funding and student outcomes/achievement. I assume that those of you talking about your honor roll kids know that your school pushes attendance because of achievement, not funding. In the districts I work, a child has to arrive by a certain time and not leave before a certain time for the state to pay the school for that kid for that day. My own kids' school used to encourage us to make appointments before/after these time cut-offs. If you were off by a few minutes, there was zero state reimbursement for that day. We're talking a tremendous amount of money. Hard to make budgets when things are this iffy. (I've never heard of the pro-rating thing here, but if we did that, $4 would pay for only a very short time.) That is the real problem. Any parent who lives in a state where funding is determined by daily attendance should be protesting. That is a stupid, unacceptable system. If public education funding is to be done on a per pupil basis at all, the calculation should be based on number of students registered in the district on a given date. Here in British Columbia, we submit our numbers as of September 30th. Those are the numbers used. If memory serves me correctly, we didn't even use per pupil funding at one time, it was targetted based on ratios. I'll have to look up more info on that, but it's a better system. Because whether you have 200 kids in the elementary school or 400 kids, a full time librarian is a full time librarian. And far as I'm concerned every elementary school should have a full time librarian, learning assistance/special education teacher, music teacher and principal at minimum. Here, depending on numbers, a principal may be required to teach a bit. And forget about full time for any of the other things I listed in most of our schools. If you're wondering why our schools are small by some of your standards, I think based on discussions with US friends, it's because we create our districts differently. We have 60 in British Columbia. If you live in the same city/town you are part of the same district, regardless. And if your town is small enough you'll be part of a larger district.
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Post by workingclassdog on Oct 31, 2016 22:38:27 GMT
How are you schools funded? In CA it is based on seats in class every day, so funding does fluctuate with unexcused absences. When we lived in WA funding was based the school enrollment number at the beginning of October. We moved in October and the school administration teased me that I couldn't move before the funding date so they still had credit for my kids. Checking out a student for a medical/dental appointment would not count as an absence and neither would a certain number of excused illness days. If the school has hired an attendance monitor, I'd assume there is an attendance problem (and it is not you ). It's based on enrollment in October. I think the big push has to do with getting test scores up not funding. No it has nothing to do with test scores.. it's all about funding. I was that person who sent letters to families who kids were not there. You would be amazed on how many kids are pulled out. I was absolutely amazed. I could tell you 100 stories. That is why schools are doing this. Out funding goes out in October. When I was 'that' person, to figure out how many kids we had going and if they had too many absences that was $7,000 that was taken away from us, from EACH kid. Now if they are legit absences, with a doctor's excuse, we would get that funding. If Johnny is on vacation for 2 weeks that would count against us, especially if that vacation was over that week where the school is audited. Our week was the 2nd week in October I believe. We never put up signs or any of that. But when Johnny is absent 5 days before the student count, an automatic letter goes out. You call the school and explain what is going on and usually no big deal. It's the ones that refuse to call, refuse to get to school on time, call their kid in once a week for no apparent reason. Those are the ones that kill us. We have 2 sisters at the school, great little girls. Due to dad losing his job they lost their home. They moved 50 miles away to live with friends. They kept the girls in school. EVERY DAY they were at least 30 minutes late because of traffic... EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY dad was late picking them up.. guess what? Traffic. They missed a ton of school. There is NO reason for this. Either prepare yourself for traffic or move the girls to a school closer to you. The school bent over backwards to help them out. Getting food, clothing, gifts for Christmas... everything!! And that was just two kids. It is a LOT of pressure on admin staff/teachers/etc. But it does make a difference. I have been in that role and believe me it is not fun. I only did the audit one year.
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Post by workingclassdog on Oct 31, 2016 22:47:47 GMT
And to add what I said.. I have three kids. They missed 'some' school.. but for the most part I always tried to schedule appointments on their days off, vacation, breaks, or to try to do first thing in the morning or last (at least they wouldn't miss much).. It was NEVER a problem getting these kind of appointments. I got a letter once, and all I did was call in. DD had an accident that required emergency surgery. She was out for a week then of course a week after she got back she got really sick and was out. This was over October count. I just called, explained, turned in a note and all was good. No reason to get upset over it.
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Oct 31, 2016 22:51:49 GMT
In our district absences are excused or unexcused. Schools try hard to minimize unexcused absences.
Sick? Doctor Appointment? Sports or School Club travel? Those are excused. Meaning you let the attendance office know the student would be out and the reason for their absence.
If you don't let the attendance office know, and the student misses class, it is an unexcused absence. If you have too many unexcused absences, you are truant.
Truancy is a problem for some kids/families.
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kate
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Post by kate on Oct 31, 2016 23:01:51 GMT
But, I am a fan of kids being in the class seat unless they are sick. Missing school has a much bigger impact than most parents realize. Not only for their child, but for others in that school. Our student body tends toward the very privileged, and kids are out for vacations a lot. The parent thinks they can just make up the work (one family even has a full-time tutor for their kids to "make up" for the schoolwork they miss). In elementary school, routines and social interactions are disrupted by frequent absences. The parents don't see the impact that the abssences have on the kids when they come back. I don't have a problem with absences for sickness, or even doctor appointments. It's the "Grandma's visiting from Brazil, so we're taking the day off" (several times a year) and the birthday Disney cruises that annoy me.
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Post by karen on Oct 31, 2016 23:13:30 GMT
It's about the money that the school gets paid for having students in attendance. That is all.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 31, 2016 23:14:09 GMT
I live in an area where it is typical around this time to year to pull kids for hunting. They get excused, but the student has to make up the work.
When it becomes a problem is like a girl at my school. She's missed over 15 days...or NINETY different class periods so far this year. She can't be leaning the material and fails all the tests...wonder why.
Have you talked to the school? They know the legit ones and the ones who just miss school a lot.
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msbtastic
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Post by msbtastic on Oct 31, 2016 23:15:33 GMT
I work in a Title 1 school. Last year, only about 50% of the students passed my class. The school norm is around 65% passing. If you are thinking those are low percentages, you would be right. The most common reason for failure was attendance, out of 80 students, around 30 had serious truancy issues. When we got a team together to track their attendance issue and attempt to fix it, we found that it began in elementary schools. These kids had serious problems with attendance starting in kindergarten. It is a funding issue, an academic one, and one that ties the 2 because then the kids have issues graduating and passing state assessments. While this may not describe your children, it does describe a high enough proportion. And lawmakers like to make policies that "benefit" the small percentage of kids that are the issue. For example, holding kids back was beneficial for the whole. But for about 10% of kids, it was terrible. So they made away with it and started social promotion. Also, what happens when they are truant- an investigation is opened about it. Kids could end up in jail or be taken away from their parents as a result of the investigation.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Oct 31, 2016 23:17:04 GMT
But, I am a fan of kids being in the class seat unless they are sick. Missing school has a much bigger impact than most parents realize. Not only for their child, but for others in that school. Our student body tends toward the very privileged, and kids are out for vacations a lot. The parent thinks they can just make up the work (one family even has a full-time tutor for their kids to "make up" for the schoolwork they miss). In elementary school, routines and social interactions are disrupted by frequent absences. The parents don't see the impact that the abssences have on the kids when they come back. I don't have a problem with absences for sickness, or even doctor appointments. It's the "Grandma's visiting from Brazil, so we're taking the day off" (several times a year) and the birthday Disney cruises that annoy me. That's the same here. I'm a huge fan of travel. But do it when the impact is minimal. I've had a family take a child to Italy for three weeks. The child went from a B to an F. My class is just too fast-paced to even attempt to make up that much work. We were on block schedule at the time, so the three weeks was like six weeks of a "normal" class. I had another student, a professional athlete, take off for two weeks. He returned right before Christmas and his father wanted me to stay after every day and personally get him caught up, one-on-one. I offered the same tutoring times that I offer all of my students, but he'd have to share my attention with the others that came. Dad's reasoning was that his kid was exceptional and was WORKING while he was gone. I pointed out that many of my students hold part-time jobs and we'd never excuse them from school so they could go into McDonald's a few hours earlier. That kid never fully recovered, academically, from his absences either.
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Post by Linda on Oct 31, 2016 23:17:12 GMT
So what happens when you miss more than the 'allowed' days? I can't speak for other districts -but the consequence for the CHILD here is that they can't earn more than a 59% on the makeup work(lower grades) or 59% for the class (upper grades - they can test out of that consequence by passing the 9wk exam though so I don't care as much about the high schooler in that regard as she'll pass the exam) and the consequence for the PARENT can be a fine and/or jail time not to mention the summons to truancy court (missed work time/lost wages). Oh and x number of tardies (even if just 1 min late/day) = an absence so there's that also. I don't know what the solution is - there are children who genuinely miss more than 5 days/term for random illness that doesn't require seeing a doctor but I know there are also parents who simply don't bother to send their kids to school on a regular basis. I wish there was a better way to distingush between the two. I know DH missed a LOT of school as a child - enough that he repeated a grade because he didn't meet the minimum attendence for the year (I think the cut-off was 40 or 50 absences back then) - and that should never have happened (he wasn't ill).
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Post by Linda on Oct 31, 2016 23:20:16 GMT
Today I spent 30 minutes gathering work for a child that will be out this week. He's been suspended. in our area, students who are suspended don't get to make up the work.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Oct 31, 2016 23:21:39 GMT
If you're wondering why our schools are small by some of your standards, I think based on discussions with US friends, it's because we create our districts differently. We have 60 in British Columbia. If you live in the same city/town you are part of the same district, regardless. And if your town is small enough you'll be part of a larger district. I don't get how that makes for smaller schools? wouldn't it make for bigger? Also what do they do about extreme rural? Some kids would have to travel for hrs? Or am I just not getting what you are saying?
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Mary Kay Lady
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Oct 31, 2016 23:27:02 GMT
We had a similar problem when DS #1 was in high school. Only in our situation it was about absences for bereavement.
We live in Texas and my family lives in northern Illinois. We had a death in the family and decided to go to the funeral. It's a 15-18 hour drive one way. We were gone about a week. I got all kinds of crap from the principal regarding it.
Education is important. I get that. But paying respect to family by going to a funeral is more important.
Sometimes as a parent you have to do what you have to do.
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Post by beachbum on Oct 31, 2016 23:32:13 GMT
It's about the money that the school gets paid for having students in attendance. That is all. Yep. Where I taught you were counted present for the entire day if you were there for more than half of the day - so the secret is to find out exactly when the 1/2 day mark is (ours was 11:10 AM) - then check them out at 11:15 for an afternoon appointment. Problem solved. School gets money for entire day, they're happy. SaveSave
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Oct 31, 2016 23:41:54 GMT
My kids rarely miss because they don't get sick very often. I usually schedule appointments after school unless it's a short notice appointment to address a health or dental problem. Last year we flew out to be with my husband's family when his father died. I left a voice mail on the attendance line because it happened on a 3 day weekend. I called back at the end of the week to let them know that they wouldn't be back until Tuesday because all flights were full until Monday night. Keep in mind my kids never missed school, and I was still given a warning about them missing 5 days of school. I gave them a stern response to have some damn compassion! We were 1000 miles away and traveling on short notice, so STFU.
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Post by Linda on Nov 1, 2016 0:04:11 GMT
If you're wondering why our schools are small by some of your standards, I think based on discussions with US friends, it's because we create our districts differently. We have 60 in British Columbia. If you live in the same city/town you are part of the same district, regardless. And if your town is small enough you'll be part of a larger district. I don't get how that makes for smaller schools? wouldn't it make for bigger? Also what do they do about extreme rural? Some kids would have to travel for hrs? Or am I just not getting what you are saying? US schools are districted differently in different areas. When I lived in Rhode Island, each town was its own school district so the 37.8 sq mile island that I lived on which was split into three towns had three school districts so our school district covered 11.39 sq miles. Now I live in Florida and each county is its own school district - our county is 801 sq miles. The k-5 bus comes to our stop at 605am for a 745 school start time and the 6-12 bus comes at 710 for an 830 school start. Our previous Florida district was 969 sq miles - our town didn't have a high school and my son caught his bus at 530am and wasn't home until about 530pm (school day was 845-240)
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Post by compeateropeator on Nov 1, 2016 0:13:54 GMT
"sorry my kids health takes priority over your attendance agenda. Thanks anyway though. *click*" Move on. who cares if they're annoyed. Well, since states pay school districts on a "butts in seats" policy, the funding takes priority over your dental appointments that could very well take place during the summer months, or over the Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Spring breaks. Oh wait, that cuts into your "fun" time. Schools are paid by attendance - keep your kid out, funding goes down. So, keep your kid in school. (BTW, using the "royal you" in this response.) SaveSaveI can see both points of view. However in my opinion, I do not think this is as easy for some as you think regarding scheduling. Obviously not everyone is going to be able to be fit in on the limited after school hours. Especially if you are in a town that does not have a lot of options. For some areas the majority of any specialty appts mean a trip to a city an hour away and you do not always have a choice or the options to pick your time. Sometimes parents work for companies or in jobs that have specific times only that they can or can not take time off. Not everyone is able to work 9-5 jobs or in jobs that have a lot of flexibility. People bitch all the time about people going to work sick or sending kids to school sick, and then turn around and bitch that kids are missing too much time when they are out sick. You can't have that both ways. People tell you to take all your vacations during the summer, but some people are not able to get time off then. Many people work where everyone wants that same time off and only a few people can have it. But because teachers do all have that time off, they do have that option So I agree that keeping your kids in school is important, but as with everything the reality of it is not always so easy. I understand that some people have legitimate reasons for not adhering to a one size fits all schedule, that is the way the world goes around. In a perfect world I understand your rant, but we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes people just try to do the best that they can with the hand they are dealt. And I also understand as a teacher about not wanting/having the time to gather work to be made up or what ever needs to be done. That goes for any job. Sometimes I really don't have the time to at work to take care of things that need to be done if someone is out sick, on vacation, or whatever reason they are unable to come to work. Again it is the reality of working in the real world. So again YES keep your kids in school when you can, but for some until you walk in their shoes you really don't know the behind the scenes reasons why that isn't always possible.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Nov 1, 2016 0:44:17 GMT
Oh yeah, our schools push it hard. It's because federal funding dollars are all tied up with attendance.
Our school nurse went as far as to tell me when my kid was sick, "Just send them even when they're sick, then plan on picking them up two hours later. We need that money!"
Insane.
Sorry school. If my kid is truly sick, (s)he is staying home.
Plus, their attendance policy completely conflicts with their stay home an additional 24 hours after fever or illness policy.
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Post by Linda on Nov 1, 2016 0:54:37 GMT
Our school nurse went as far as to tell me when my kid was sick, "Just send them even when they're sick, then plan on picking them up two hours later. We need that money!" I was told something similar - 'just send her to school and if she throws up again, we'll call you to come get her and it won't count against you for truancy'....this for a child who had already thrown up on the BUS twice that school year AND at school more than once but they wanted me to send her EVEN if she had thrown up at breakfast - not happening
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Nov 1, 2016 0:58:01 GMT
Not at my school! We don't want germs - keep those at home!
Doesn't make sense anyhow. Even if half of the kids do go to school sick, they'll infect others, causing a bigger issue with attendance.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Nov 1, 2016 1:03:04 GMT
I'm not a fan of perfect attendance awards. To me they mean one of two things - a kid has a natural immunity off the charts, which is nothing he deserves an award for, or two, he was sent to school sick multiple times, potentially infecting his classmates and school staff. I totally agree with everything you wrote here. I went to elementary school with a boy who never missed a day from kindergarten through eighth grade. Not even on the days when he had a stomach virus so bad that he pooped his pants. Not even on the days when he was throwing up in a trash can. Not for the first three days he had chicken pox (wed, thurs, fri at school, then had the weekend to rest, then was back in on monday) Not when he was coughing so hard he was wheezing, and snot was dripping down his face. He was given an award and an article was written in the newspaper about how wonderful his dedication was to school. The article didn't mention he was a solid D student. Can you imagine how many illnesses he passed along?
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Post by hop2 on Nov 1, 2016 1:46:48 GMT
Doctors appointments are excused absences in my state. Don't get me wrong they have attendance minimums especially i high school, where you can not pas a class without meeting minimum attendance requirements. but doctor appointments with a note from the doctor do not affect that as long as the work is made up.
the medical professionals would freak out if the schools cracked down on that stuff as they do not want to work till 9 pm
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Post by shannoots on Nov 1, 2016 1:50:52 GMT
I get why the schools do it but it's still annoying. I got a letter a couple of years ago that one of my kids had missed almost 10 days of school. They went on to state that we needed to send a letter of why she missed so much school. Well, guess what? The school sent her home several days because she was sick. I just ignore their letters.
On the other hand, it drives me crazy when my children tell me that a student threw up at school and was back the next day. It's supposed to be 24 hours. Keep your kids home!
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Post by ahiller on Nov 1, 2016 2:11:32 GMT
Last year DD missed 5 days of school for a vacation and only 2-3 days for being sick. So far this year, she has already missed 5 days for being sick. You just can't help it if your kid gets a string of illnesses. Since the end of August, my kids have collectively had 4 colds/sinus infections, 2 ear infections, a ruptured ear drum and each had a stomach virus lasting 5-7 days. I felt bad about DD missing so much school already (DS is still in preschool so not as big a deal) but I'm not sending her in when she is puking and running to the bathroom every 20 minutes.
Sometimes there's just nothing you can do.
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breetheflea
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Post by breetheflea on Nov 1, 2016 3:28:07 GMT
We can't just "switch dentists" DH works for the HMO that our dentist is part of, and the next closest office is 25 miles away (and has the same hours).
The school was pushing the "send the kids to school even if their sick" a few years ago when DS was in kindergarten, I haven't heard them specifically say that this year. Last year we missed two days due to a very much needed family vacation (DH Grandma died, DH dad had a heart attack etc) and 2 of my 3 kids were excused, the other one I had to fight to excuse her absence (all kids were at the same school...).
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finaledition
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Post by finaledition on Nov 1, 2016 3:50:30 GMT
I always get my "worst mom of the year letter" and I may have felt guilty at one point, but the year my son broke his leg and missed school for a week with a doctor's note and we still got a truancy letter was the last time I gave a "f" about it. And now if you take your kid out for a doctor's appointment they seriously hunt you down for a note friend m the doctor. Yep, I'm over it.
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Post by *leslie* on Nov 1, 2016 5:38:48 GMT
I always get my "worst mom of the year letter" and I may have felt guilty at one point, but the year my son broke his leg and missed school for a week with a doctor's note and we still got a truancy letter was the last time I gave a "f" about it. And now if you take your kid out for a doctor's appointment they seriously hunt you down for a note friend m the doctor. Yep, I'm over it. Haha, yeah. Back when the swine flu was going around, about 7-8 years ago, two of my kids got it really bad. They were out of school for a week. I remember getting a letter for each child. It went right in the trash.
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on Nov 1, 2016 13:46:34 GMT
I think people need to realize that each state has mandatory school attendance laws and also laws that specify what the school is required to do when a child's absences reach x amount of days and then xx amount of days. It's not an "agenda", it's the LAW.
The school must treat every student the same: not just the children with parents who don't give a crap whether their kid goes to school or not, but even our kids with "legitimate absences".
People need to quit taking these letters so personally as if this is some judgement on your mothering skills. Your kid misses x amount of days, you get a letter. Your kid continues to miss X more days of school, based on the reason, the school must escalate their response to the next level as specified in the law. They are required to document this. Communicate with the school.
The mandatory school laws are for ALL CHILDREN, not just "Those kids".
Also, don't throw a hissy fit when teachers aren't going to go out of their way to re-teach the material to your son or daughter who missed several days of school because your family went on a vacation. Make-up work for illness, counseling, etc. fine, but not for vacations. Your decide your kid goes on vacation, fine, but then live with the consequences of your decision.
BTW, I don't work for the schools.
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