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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 1:33:22 GMT
I have already been hearing some backtracking from Trump and his surrogates regarding what he wants to do. I've heard he wants to continue accepting people who have pre-existing conditions into policies and maintaininng the age limit of 26 on their parents policies. I heard that during his campaign, not just today, so I can't consider that backtracking. Have I missed something else?
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 12, 2016 1:37:57 GMT
I'm curious how having medical insurance like car insurance would help. As it is now, the insurance companies are all setting the price. What makes you think they would lower the rates rather than all going for something similar? I think that your ideas about Hillary's platform are inaccurate, but it really doesn't matter now. I have already been hearing some backtracking from Trump and his surrogates regarding what he wants to do. Time will tell what he actually makes a priority and what he doesn't. And what was completely unrealistic to promise in the first place. I do wonder if his supporters will be upset if/doesn't follow through with The things that he said during the campaign. Selling medical insurance like we buy car insurance will help because when we buy car insurance what happens? They are all competing for our business. They are all in competition for the same job (us to buy their insurance) so instead of just charging whatever they want and we having to pay it, we get to shop around and choose the lowest cost-just like we do with car insurance. Get it? They'd have commercials on TV and they'd all compete across the country (so no state would be limited to only a certain number of companies). In other words all health insurance companies would be available to everyone across the country. Competition=lower rates. Yes, they can stay for profit, but no more charging whatever the heck they want. Comparing medical/health insurance to car insurance doesn't really work. If you have a good driving record and no claims, everyone competes for your business. Those that can't get car insurance are generally in that position because of their own doing with a poor driving record and/or accidents (and there are people that cannot get car insurance). I don't have a problem with these companies deciding who they will and won't insure and adjusting costs based on risk. If we used the same model for health insurance, only the young and healthy would be sought after by the insurance companies. Anyone with a chronic illness or pre-existing condition would be uninsurable of face exorbitant costs. If you have a bad year like DH, with surgery for a torn ligament and cataract surgery, your premiums might skyrocket the next year or you get dropped by your insurer. Heaven help you if anyone in the family is diagnosed with cancer. SaveSave
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Nov 12, 2016 1:38:55 GMT
There are some thoughtful responses here and I appreciate that. It is helping me to understand a little bit better.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 12, 2016 2:10:12 GMT
I've written and deleted my response a few times because I just can't seem to find the right words to answer this question.
I think the slogan "make America great again" really appeals to anyone who has change thrust into their lives against their will.
If your town lost a factory and the downtown core is now boarded up, then "make America great again" means bring back the factories and thriving small towns.
If you can't afford to send your kids to college and you were able to work your way through or your parents were able to send you without incurring crippling debt, then "make America great again" means what happened to affordable college?
If you were over 50 and were laid off and thrust into the job market when you planned to retire after working for that one company for 40 years, "make America great again" means bring back companies with lifetime employment and huge, multi-layered organizational structures with a promotion every couple of years.
If you are an angry white male, "make America great again" means bring back the days where you had the best job opportunites and called the shots.
If you can't afford to buy a house in the neighborhood you grew up in, "make America great again" means property values should be somehow be controlled.
If your favorite religious celebrations are no longer the only ones embraced by your schools and communities, "make America great again" means let's return to my religious observances being the only ones deserving of community wide recognition and celebration.
I could go on, but change isn't easy for most of us. If you don't see or get a real tangible, positive benefit from the change then it is easy to look back with nostalgia to a better time for you and wish we could go back.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,188
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 12, 2016 2:11:20 GMT
I understand that some people think their own lives were better at some point in the past, and there are legitimate concerns about whether their children will have the chance to achieve what the parents have. I live in an area that lost tons of manufacturing jobs years ago, when the farm implement plants closed down. I get that there is angst over the loss of many good-paying blue collar jobs. But life wasn't as good for those who lacked the same rights and opportunities as others.
The phrase "Make America Great Again" seems to imply that we are not great now, and I contend that we as a country are still great. We ARE, however, different than we were then, and there is room for improvement, especially for those who are struggling today. Everything changes, nothing stays totally the same. Manufacturing, for example, becomes more automated because it costs less over time and is more efficient and consistent, but it takes fewer people to run the machines that do the production. Those jobs won't stay the same or come back, no matter how much people say they want to bring manufacturing back to the US.
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2016 2:39:12 GMT
This is a little off-topic, but I'm going to just throw out there that I think we have a vastly different idea of what "middle class" is than we did even a generation ago.
I grew up solidly middle class in the 1970s and 80s. My mom stayed home with us until 1988, but it was a significant financial sacrifice for her to be able to do so. We lived in an average suburban tract home in a small midwestern city and attended public schools. We rarely ate out. We didn't have cable, much less a computer. My parents did all their own yard work, home repairs and improvement, and for many years my mom sewed all our clothes as well as growing/canning a lot of our food. My dad repaired our cars himself. We went on exactly two real vacations in all my growing up years - one of them was a trip to Florida to see my paternal grandmother, and she paid for it, and the other was a road trip to the Black Hills of South Dakota. Every other "vacation" we had was a four-hour road trip up I-29 to visit my mom's family in South Dakota. My parents had a little savings, but no huge amount. My siblings and I all got jobs as soon as we turned 16, and we paid for college ourselves, either through scholarships, student loans or working our way through.
That was considered middle class in the 80s. My friends were all in similar situations. People who went on faraway vacations were "rich" by our standards, as were people whose parents could afford to pay for them to attend college out of pocket.
Now, middle class seems to require nice vacations and paid-for college, in addition to the expensive accoutrements of modern life like computers, home wi-fi, cable and cell phones. I'm not faulting anyone for wanting those things or aspiring to have them. I'm just saying, when we talk about the "death" of the middle class and the squeeze they are feeling, I think we should consider that being middle class by today's standards requires a significantly higher level of income in today's money than it did a generation ago.
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2016 2:40:57 GMT
And to answer the OP, for me, making America great again would mean returning to a time when intellectualism was revered rather than mocked. I don't think that particular part of the populist movement is doing us as a country any favors.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 12, 2016 3:37:49 GMT
I've heard he wants to continue accepting people who have pre-existing conditions into policies and maintaininng the age limit of 26 on their parents policies.I heard that during his campaign, not just today, so I can't consider that backtracking. [bold mine] Wh...what? Really? I had no idea. I've been fretting about this for three days now, which hasn't helped my anxiety. I even read all the bullet points in the health care section of the Trump website, looking for clues. Bless you. (I think.) ~AmeliaBloomer (Mother of 22 and 24 year olds with benefitless jobs)
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Post by shescrafty on Nov 12, 2016 3:40:56 GMT
Trump's "Make America Great Again" in my eyes returning to a time when white men held the power. When people who were not white, not straight, not Christian, or didn't fit the mold had to sit down and be quiet (i.e. They "knew their place.")
The more I read about what has happened the past few days the more I am convinced that my son is more in danger during a Trump presidency than he was before. Not necessarily from Trump himself, but by those fueled by his racist comments who know feel empowered.
I think it is interesting that Trump egged people on to violence repeatedly during his campaign and I did not hear his supporters denounce it. But when violence erupts from non-whites and people express their anger at a system where the person who received the most votes did not win, Trumo supporters now want them to sing Kum bu ya and feel OK.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Nov 12, 2016 4:16:58 GMT
This is a little off-topic, but I'm going to just throw out there that I think we have a vastly different idea of what "middle class" is than we did even a generation ago. I grew up solidly middle class in the 1970s and 80s. My mom stayed home with us until 1988, but it was a significant financial sacrifice for her to be able to do so. We lived in an average suburban tract home in a small midwestern city and attended public schools. We rarely ate out. We didn't have cable, much less a computer. My parents did all their own yard work, home repairs and improvement, and for many years my mom sewed all our clothes as well as growing/canning a lot of our food. My dad repaired our cars himself. We went on exactly two real vacations in all my growing up years - one of them was a trip to Florida to see my paternal grandmother, and she paid for it, and the other was a road trip to the Black Hills of South Dakota. Every other "vacation" we had was a four-hour road trip up I-29 to visit my mom's family in South Dakota. My parents had a little savings, but no huge amount. My siblings and I all got jobs as soon as we turned 16, and we paid for college ourselves, either through scholarships, student loans or working our way through. That was considered middle class in the 80s. My friends were all in similar situations. People who went on faraway vacations were "rich" by our standards, as were people whose parents could afford to pay for them to attend college out of pocket. Now, middle class seems to require nice vacations and paid-for college, in addition to the expensive accoutrements of modern life like computers, home wi-fi, cable and cell phones. I'm not faulting anyone for wanting those things or aspiring to have them. I'm just saying, when we talk about the "death" of the middle class and the squeeze they are feeling, I think we should consider that being middle class by today's standards requires a significantly higher level of income in today's money than it did a generation ago. I agree. That's the same childhood I had in the midwest. SaveSave
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,368
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Nov 12, 2016 4:24:31 GMT
It's not a phrase I would use. I think America is just fine. When I hear it from cheeto, I know it means let's take it back to the past when white people were completely in charge and everyone else knew their place. It nauseates me.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Nov 12, 2016 4:42:22 GMT
Biruketty said: Although I absolutely did not vote for her, I am going to defend Hillary on this one. I really think Obamacare would have been high on her list for reformation. She is a smart cookie and she was well aware that Obamacare is a ticking time bomb that is about to go off big time. For all that we like to paint her as ultra liberal (and that's how she ran so it is a fair brush to paint her with) I personally think she would have been far more moderate after election. Bill Clinton was a pragmatist and he knew the only way to succeed was to work with both parties and he did that. I think he would have guided Hillary along that line. I know some of my conservative friends will choke to see me say this, but Obamacare is the ONE area where I really think Hillary might have got it "right" if she had been elected. Thank you for saying this. I absolutely agree with the healthcare issue and agree that she is a moderate. Lots of "ultra liberals" cannot stand her because she is not liberal enough. One of the things I like about her is working with the other side of the aisle. I am hoping Trump and the people he surrounds himself with will do the same.
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Jul 2, 2014 22:14:02 GMT
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Post by trollie on Nov 12, 2016 4:49:30 GMT
And to answer the OP: Make America Great Again is a slogan that kinda ticks me off. I think America has it's problems and we have things that need to be fixed, but I do think it's great. Honestly, I think if Hillary or Bernie or anyone on the left used a similar slogan they would have been lambasted and told that they must hate America and that they should go live somewhere else.
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 5:06:27 GMT
I've heard he wants to continue accepting people who have pre-existing conditions into policies and maintaininng the age limit of 26 on their parents policies.I heard that during his campaign, not just today, so I can't consider that backtracking. [bold mine] Wh...what? Really? I had no idea. I've been fretting about this for three days now, which hasn't helped my anxiety. I even read all the bullet points in the health care section of the Trump website, looking for clues. Bless you. (I think.) ~AmeliaBloomer (Mother of 22 and 24 year olds with benefitless jobs) I know that this provision is often .... shall I say misunderestimated ?.... but it was without doubt one of the few things about Obamacare that I completely agreed with. I heard a newsclip from.... shoot, I forget where... today and he repeated this, and here's a link to the BBC news saying the same thing. ETA - Oh, that linked article say CBS news. I don't have TV so I catch odd soundbites through radio.
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 5:17:44 GMT
I think we should consider that being middle class by today's standards requires a significantly higher level of income in today's money than it did a generation ago. Boy, does it ever! And it's not just the electronics... which frankly cost significantly less than they used to. It's the cost of insurance. It's the cost of medicine. It's the cost of going to the Dr. for even routine checkups. My parents never faced the monthly bills that I do just to survive.
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 5:24:24 GMT
I think the slogan "make America great again" really appeals to anyone who has change thrust into their lives against their will. That's very profound! Definitely worthy of an A+ grade in my book.
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2016 5:28:55 GMT
I think we should consider that being middle class by today's standards requires a significantly higher level of income in today's money than it did a generation ago. Boy, does it ever! And it's not just the electronics... which frankly cost significantly less than they used to. It's the cost of insurance. It's the cost of medicine. It's the cost of going to the Dr. for even routine checkups. My parents never faced the monthly bills that I do just to survive. And I don't know about you, but we, um, didn't go to the doctor unless we were at death's door. We had insurance but it was a traditional 80/20 split with a fairly steep deductible, all the years I was growing up. My parents couldn't believe it when I got my first "real" job in the 90s, and I had one of those fancy HMOs where pretty much everything was just a $25 copay. No deductible for in-network doctors, and they were pretty much all in network back then. Remember those? My parents were also highly allergic to debt of any kind, and never carried a car note or any kind of debt except their mortgage (which was paid off early). Made for fewer bills.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 14, 2024 19:31:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 5:47:30 GMT
I can't take offense to the phrase Make America Great Again because I know that we've stumbled in the past and had to pick ourselves up and be great again.
The Great Depression. Japanese internment camps. Slavery. Just to name a few blights on our history.
I think we're on the path to stumbling again and have been for the past 20 years or so. Civil wars are breaking out all over and are tearing this country to shreds. Does it not concern anyone that we've devolved into a state of demanding that some lives matter more than others? Black, blue, yellow, purple - ALL lives matter.
But if you say that, you are a racist and must be silenced.
I don't get it. I truly don't.
Making America great again means we pick ourselves up from this stumble and get to work on being what we always said we wanted to be - a nation without bias where everyone has an equal chance at life, liberty and happiness. We cannot ever be that if the streets are full of chants that proclaim one life is better than another and we must decimate the 'enemy' at all costs.
We have found ourselves on the cusp of a 21st century civil war. How do YOU want it to turn out? Do you have selected sides you want to win at the expense of your perceived 'enemy', or do you want us all to win?
As a Trump voter, I want us all to prosper and have no losers.
L
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 12, 2016 5:53:35 GMT
I'm sitting on the "America is already great" bench. Sure there are always things that could be done better or improved, but that's how life is. You hang onto the good parts, and keep tweaking the stuff that could be done better.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Nov 12, 2016 6:09:45 GMT
This is a little off-topic, but I'm going to just throw out there that I think we have a vastly different idea of what "middle class" is than we did even a generation ago. I grew up solidly middle class in the 1970s and 80s. My mom stayed home with us until 1988, but it was a significant financial sacrifice for her to be able to do so. We lived in an average suburban tract home in a small midwestern city and attended public schools. We rarely ate out. We didn't have cable, much less a computer. My parents did all their own yard work, home repairs and improvement, and for many years my mom sewed all our clothes as well as growing/canning a lot of our food. My dad repaired our cars himself. We went on exactly two real vacations in all my growing up years - one of them was a trip to Florida to see my paternal grandmother, and she paid for it, and the other was a road trip to the Black Hills of South Dakota. Every other "vacation" we had was a four-hour road trip up I-29 to visit my mom's family in South Dakota. My parents had a little savings, but no huge amount. My siblings and I all got jobs as soon as we turned 16, and we paid for college ourselves, either through scholarships, student loans or working our way through. That was considered middle class in the 80s. My friends were all in similar situations. People who went on faraway vacations were "rich" by our standards, as were people whose parents could afford to pay for them to attend college out of pocket. Now, middle class seems to require nice vacations and paid-for college, in addition to the expensive accoutrements of modern life like computers, home wi-fi, cable and cell phones. I'm not faulting anyone for wanting those things or aspiring to have them. I'm just saying, when we talk about the "death" of the middle class and the squeeze they are feeling, I think we should consider that being middle class by today's standards requires a significantly higher level of income in today's money than it did a generation ago. That is a really interesting point. I had a very similar childhood, though slightly less financially stable. I absolutely understand why people feel left out of the "new" middle class. Hell, in some ways I do, too. It's a really touchy topic. People want to feel like they can give their kids a "good" life, and the goalposts of what society deems a "good" life keep changing and getting more and more expensive. There is a very, very long conversation we could and probably should have about class in our society. I think that is fully as important a topic as racism and sexism et al, but it doesn't get talked about productively at all.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Nov 12, 2016 6:19:43 GMT
Does it not concern anyone that we've devolved into a state of demanding that some lives matter more than others? Black, blue, yellow, purple - ALL lives matter. But if you say that, you are a racist and must be silenced. I don't get it. I truly don't. These activists are not saying that their lives are MORE important than anyone else's. They are desperately pleading for their lives to be AS important as anyone else's, in the face of endless proof that their lives are less valuable and worthy. So when a white person counters with "ALL lives matter"--of course all lives matter. Of course they do. But in the reality of our society, this is simply not true. They are demanding that it be true. When you throw "All lives matter" back in their faces, it sounds tone-deaf and aggressive and yes, racist sometimes. We are not a society where all lives matter. There are people who are tired of asking that this change, and now they are demanding that this change. I don't blame them. (I do not condone violence, no matter who perpetrates it, just for the record.) We see over and over that change only comes for oppressed people if they demand it, sometimes quietly and sometimes loudly, for those who just won't hear.
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Post by KB on Nov 12, 2016 6:25:50 GMT
For me, it is the "again" that rubs me the wrong way.
We are a nation that stole the very nation we proclaim to make great "again"
We are a nation that brought a country of men and women over for the sole purpose of slavery. Then proceeded to beat, rape and murder these men and women for having the self respect to dare to escape.
We are a nation that kept women away from an education, a vote and employment based on her abilities all while telling her that she should accept sexual harassment as a part of life.
We are a nation that spit on my dad and other Vietnam vets upon their return to the country they were sent to fight for, only to be paraded around decades later as if we backed them.
Aside from these points and many more, our nation does continue to learn and grow. We embrace change and improvement and it is my hope that we continue to do so.
I don't want America to go "again" to a whitewashed sense of "great", let's just simply continue to improve it for the better.
Let's focus on one day being great based on our present actions, not past mistakes.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 14, 2024 19:31:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 6:35:20 GMT
Does it not concern anyone that we've devolved into a state of demanding that some lives matter more than others? Black, blue, yellow, purple - ALL lives matter. But if you say that, you are a racist and must be silenced. I don't get it. I truly don't. These activists are not saying that their lives are MORE important than anyone else's. They are desperately pleading for their lives to be AS important as anyone else's, in the face of endless proof that their lives are less valuable and worthy. So when a white person counters with "ALL lives matter"--of course all lives matter. Of course they do. But in the reality of our society, this is simply not true. They are demanding that it be true. When you throw "All lives matter" back in their faces, it sounds tone-deaf and aggressive and yes, racist sometimes. We are not a society where all lives matter. There are people who are tired of asking that this change, and now they are demanding that this change. I don't blame them. (I do not condone violence, no matter who perpetrates it, just for the record.) We see over and over that change only comes for oppressed people if they demand it, sometimes quietly and sometimes loudly, for those who just won't hear. I'll be blunt - I don't understand having that perception of the response that all lives matter. To me, that's just looking for something to be offended by (cue overly-PC) and the message being sent back is all kinds of wrong because it reinforces that all lives do NOT matter, only the ones of those chanting. How do we get past the misinterpretation on both sides? How do we meet in the middle to heal the divide? L
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 12, 2016 6:35:20 GMT
My middle class upbringing was very much like @merge's. There was no hot school lunch, no new school clothes (unless they were hand made), and vacations were to visit relatives in North Dakota and stay in a pop up. On Friday night, we got half of a Tab. They saved like crazy to afford for us to go to college though. That was driven into our heads from kindergarten. My dad saw my retirement plan (as a teacher) and thought it was the best thing he'd ever seen. I work part-time now at a second career for fun and make as much as my dad did as a "high paying" manager.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 12, 2016 6:40:59 GMT
I think the slogan "make America great again" really appeals to anyone who has change thrust into their lives against their will. If your town lost a factory and the downtown core is now boarded up, then "make America great again" means bring back the factories and thriving small towns. While I can appreciate this, I don't think it's realistic to think those kinds of jobs are ever really going to come back here. Look at how many people have commented on the various Walmart threads saying that as much as they would like to buy stuff at a mom and pop store (even if they still had one to go to), they just can't find the extra dollars in their own budget to justify paying more for the things they buy (even if they're better quality items that would last longer) so they buy the cheaper throwaway stuff from discount stores because that's what they can afford. Even if more stuff was made here, who would buy it? Walmart or other mass retailers wouldn't stock it because they wouldn't be able to drive the prices down low enough for people to want to buy it, and they're not going to stock items they can't sell. Global retailers like Walmart have made it impossible for companies based here to actually produce here, and there have been numerous articles and documentaries describing how they accomplish that. There's more to it than just making making more stuff here, people have to want to / be able to BUY it too. There is no way that an American made item can compete with stuff made elsewhere by people working 14 hours a day for a few dollars, with lax safety regulations. And the thought of Republicans pushing back all kinds of regulations (especially safety, environmental and human rights employment regulations) in an effort to make US manufacturing more "business friendly" kind of scares me. People working under unsafe conditions in sweat shops wouldn't be making America great again at all. I think that there are jobs that could come back here from overseas but they won't be those kinds of factory jobs. People whose jobs have been outsourced are going to have to adapt, get educated for something else, or otherwise reinvent themselves. Even my private college educated white male DH ended up changing professions and went through years of apprenticeship followed by more years as a journeyman in a trade before he could test and be qualified as a master craftsman. And based on how many cold contact letters he gets every month offering him opportunities to work for other companies, that tells me there is definitely a need out there that isn't being met.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Nov 12, 2016 6:55:35 GMT
These activists are not saying that their lives are MORE important than anyone else's. They are desperately pleading for their lives to be AS important as anyone else's, in the face of endless proof that their lives are less valuable and worthy. So when a white person counters with "ALL lives matter"--of course all lives matter. Of course they do. But in the reality of our society, this is simply not true. They are demanding that it be true. When you throw "All lives matter" back in their faces, it sounds tone-deaf and aggressive and yes, racist sometimes. We are not a society where all lives matter. There are people who are tired of asking that this change, and now they are demanding that this change. I don't blame them. (I do not condone violence, no matter who perpetrates it, just for the record.) We see over and over that change only comes for oppressed people if they demand it, sometimes quietly and sometimes loudly, for those who just won't hear. I'll be blunt - I don't understand having that perception of the response that all lives matter. To me, that's just looking for something to be offended by (cue overly-PC) and the message being sent back is all kinds of wrong because it reinforces that all lives do NOT matter, only the ones of those chanting. How do we get past the misinterpretation on both sides? How do we meet in the middle to heal the divide? L Well, all I can think of is trying to put yourself in another person's shoes and thinking about why they say what they say and do what they do. And let's face it, most people suck at that. We dismiss other people's very real emotions and experiences if they don't fit with our own worldview. To me, "overly PC" sounds very dismissive. I don't like the term "political correctness" at all. How is it such an offensive idea to just be careful what you say and apologize if you get it wrong? I mean, people are offended by "all lives matter" and then you are offended at their offense. Where does it end? At some point you (general you) have to drop the chip on your shoulder and try to listen, and I am the only person who can do that for me. I can't do it for anybody else. I have had a huge chip on my shoulder since Tuesday night and now I am in the very slow process of trying to talk and listen and it is extremely difficult. But if I pay lip service to believing in that stuff, then I have to try. These are my very late-night random thoughts.
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 7:21:33 GMT
How do we get past the misinterpretation on both sides? How do we meet in the middle to heal the divide? We learn from those who have gone before us. The actions of Martin Luther King, Jr. are a good model to follow. I think it's noteworthy to add that MLK was a religious man. He held himself accountable to a higher justice. Not a bad thing, if you ask me.
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 12, 2016 7:56:58 GMT
I think the slogan "make America great again" really appeals to anyone who has change thrust into their lives against their will. If your town lost a factory and the downtown core is now boarded up, then "make America great again" means bring back the factories and thriving small towns. While I can appreciate this, I don't think it's realistic to think those kinds of jobs are ever really going to come back here. Look at how many people have commented on the various Walmart threads saying that as much as they would like to buy stuff at a mom and pop store (even if they still had one to go to), they just can't find the extra dollars in their own budget to justify paying more for the things they buy (even if they're better quality items that would last longer) so they buy the cheaper throwaway stuff from discount stores because that's what they can afford. Even if more stuff was made here, who would buy it? Walmart or other mass retailers wouldn't stock it because they wouldn't be able to drive the prices down low enough for people to want to buy it, and they're not going to stock items they can't sell. Global retailers like Walmart have made it impossible for companies based here to actually produce here, and there have been numerous articles and documentaries describing how they accomplish that. There's more to it than just making making more stuff here, people have to want to / be able to BUY it too. There is no way that an American made item can compete with stuff made elsewhere by people working 14 hours a day for a few dollars, with lax safety regulations. And the thought of Republicans pushing back all kinds of regulations (especially safety, environmental and human rights employment regulations) in an effort to make US manufacturing more "business friendly" kind of scares me. People working under unsafe conditions in sweat shops wouldn't be making America great again at all. I think that there are jobs that could come back here from overseas but they won't be those kinds of factory jobs. People whose jobs have been outsourced are going to have to adapt, get educated for something else, or otherwise reinvent themselves. Even my private college educated white male DH ended up changing professions and went through years of apprenticeship followed by more years as a journeyman in a trade before he could test and be qualified as a master craftsman. And based on how many cold contact letters he gets every month offering him opportunities to work for other companies, that tells me there is definitely a need out there that isn't being met. It's a bit misleading to consider all manufacturing jobs to be now beyond US abilities. Fiat Chrysler will be ending production of all cars in the US by the end of this year. That's less than 2 months away! Along with Fiat Chrysler, Ford is shifting all of its US small car production to Mexico. Those plants will join the ones from General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota and Volkswagen. Seven Asian and European auto makers have opened/will open new Mexican assembly plants. This is the kind of thing that Trump refers to when he has said that the US has made bad trade deals. Right now, trade deals with Mexico are more favorable than with the US. Between January and April of this year, Ford shipped 265,000 cars from Mexico to the US, according to the Mexican Association of the Automobile Industry (AMIA). That is, unless, of course, they kept or moved production of cars intended for the US back to the US. And if they didn't, there would be a new market opening for someone who would. It doesn't take much effort to see that the US is an enormous consumer of automobiles. Pretty hard to believe manufacturers would see the opportunity and not take it. This whole attitude that America can't or won't make the goods that Americans will buy is a most defeatist attitude. Of course we can.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Nov 12, 2016 8:07:45 GMT
It doesn't mean anything to me, other than it being a catchy campaign slogan. America already is great.
Many feel it means bringing back jobs. But I don't really understand that. The unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in decades.
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Post by jlynnbarth on Nov 12, 2016 8:15:35 GMT
I agree with the middle class observation and I grew up in San Diego. It's expensive to live up to middle class expectations today! Between having the newest and best electronics and all the gadgets that go with them (for each person in the family) and keeping your kids in every after school activity/sport they can possibly be in, and taking your every 6 month 10-15 day all inclusive family vacation, and heaven forbid you have a car long enough to not have a car payment and the list goes on.
When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's I got to be in 1 activity of my choosing, I got a phone in my room for my 15th birthday with the stipulation that I had to pay the bill, which meant getting a job (more than babysitting 2 nights a week) We never ever went on a long vacation that wasn't to visit family. My parents kept their cars until the car died.
My Mom still lives in the same house they bought when I was 7, there was no such thing as a "starter" home. Teens could get jobs at 15 with a work permit and 16 without and everyone had a job, even the "rich" kids. You got to go in and apply for a job and communicate with the people hiring, instead of being a faceless number on an email with "resume attached." If you did something wrong at school you got punished at home instead of parents denying that their special snowflake could ever be an asshole or do something wrong. Sports teams and dance teams had tryouts and cuts were made, instead of the "everybody makes the team and gets a participation trophy" philosophy that is now the norm. If your team sucked, you got nothing. If you sucked and didn't make the team? Oh well. It hurt, but you tried harder next time and gave it another shot or you did something else that you were better at.
My idea of what would make America great again would be to reimplement some of the lost arts of face to face communication and establishing the fact that not everyone wins. I would also include that what you have and where you go don't make you "cool". You being a loving, compassionate person makes you cool and is the reason why people want to hang out with you.
I've seen a lot of vile, hateful crap this last 1.5 years especially, but really going all the way back to 2000. Whether it is due to Social Media giving people a platform to voice their opinion or the News Media deciding that rather than just reporting the news, they need to voice their opinion on every dang thing, I don't know, but we are not living in the same America I was raised in. Not from my perspective anyway, and I'd like it to come back.
Being civil to one another should not be this hard! It's everyone being jerks! Not one side or another or one race, religion, sex, etc.. it's all of us and we need to own it and fix it! We all need to call out the people that share our views if we think they are being just as big of a jerk as the person with the opposing view. We need to call it out in a kind and loving way, but call it out or we are just as much a part of the problem for accepting that it's "their opinion".
We can always make a point without being a name calling, bullying jerk. Before speaking or typing or whatever, think about the points we honestly want to make and then say it to ourselves or type it and try to see if we would be offended if someone said it like that to us. It's really just not that hard. I just don't know that that many people care anymore and that breaks my heart.
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