~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876 
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 26, 2016 15:54:18 GMT
Israel claims to have solid proof that the Obama administration was behind the drafting of the resolution and the US abstention from voting allowed the resolution to pass.
Thoughts?
Personally, I have believed since 2008 that Obama was anti-Israel and in my mind, this last minute action in his term of office (when it can't hurt him politically) is just what I would have expected.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 26, 2016 16:13:42 GMT
Well it has been pretty clear that Obama isn't 'pro' Israel.
But I'm one of few people who believe you can be not 'pro' Israel and also not 'anti' Israel at the same time i.e. Neutral. And that is NOT an acceptable position to either side ( pro or anti )
I would need more information about this specific action to see what I think about this, I'll google and get back to the thread.
As for Obama, up until now he has been neither helpful nor overtly hindering to Israel. Hillary was Pro Israel and during her time as Secretary of State perhaps she kept him in check.
I do not picture our relationship with Israel to improve under the next administration, I do feel it will at least not be oppositional to Israel. So it won't deteriorate any further.
However, since the US is so easily hacked and led around by false information perhaps the Mossad would like to take a crack at 2020?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 26, 2016 16:15:41 GMT
I disagree about Trump. I believe he will be much more pro-Israel.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 26, 2016 16:21:28 GMT
Ah, the West Bank.
I'll keep my opinions on that to myself.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Dec 26, 2016 17:39:23 GMT
Israel claims to have solid proof that the Obama administration was behind the drafting of the resolution and the US abstention from voting allowed the resolution to pass. Thoughts? Personally, I have believed since 2008 that Obama was anti-Israel and in my mind, this last minute action in his term of office (when it can't hurt him politically) is just what I would have expected. I saw this and was also interested in the opinion of the Peas. |
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Dec 26, 2016 17:46:21 GMT
OP might be onto something there as far as DT being pro Israel is concerned, possibly not regarding the current administration drafting the latest resolution though. I have not seen much news today but just got off the phone with a political nut who told me DT's pick for ambassador to Israel makes Benjamin N look like a creampuff. Off to check.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 27, 2016 1:25:20 GMT
btt for night peas.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
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Post by freebird on Dec 27, 2016 1:27:38 GMT
We are not jewish, but I will tell you that my husband is hopping mad right now. If you bring it up, plan on a 30 minute rant about Obama screwing over Israel. He's pretty much screwed Trump on his way out the door.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 27, 2016 1:30:14 GMT
I've never been under the impression that Obama is "pro" Israel and I'm ok with that. I don't think the U.S. should be so unquestioningly pro Israel.
I think that a lot of younger people are not "pro" Israel and that is the way our foreign policy will go in the future.
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Post by scrapmaven on Dec 27, 2016 1:35:13 GMT
One of my nephews worked hard on the Obama campaign and swears that Obama is pro-Israel. I'm not so sure. Would love to know what my nephew thinks now? A breakdown in relations w/Israel could be devastating, imho. I don't know what DT will do, but I'm willing to wait to pass judgement until it's been made clear. Having said this, I still will not comment on whether or not I voted for DT/HRC or someone else.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556
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Post by cycworker on Dec 27, 2016 1:48:17 GMT
Well it has been pretty clear that Obama isn't 'pro' Israel. But I'm one of few people who believe you can be not 'pro' Israel and also not 'anti' Israel at the same time i.e. Neutral. And that is NOT an acceptable position to either side ( pro or anti ) I agree with this thought - though I'm not sure I'd use the word neutral. I'm not sure how to explain it. I do agree that it's a problem to many that what some of us are essentially saying is that we agree with both of your aims (for Israel to be secure from terrorist attacks, and for Palestinian civilians to have a state they can call their own). I think it's horrible that innocent people are being killed because the west let Hitler run amok. They could have stopped him before he got out of control & began murdering Jews. They chose to look the other way, and when they finally felt guilty enough about it, they punished the Palestinians to assuage their own consciences. |
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Post by bosoxbeth on Dec 27, 2016 1:54:03 GMT
I'm REALLY disappointed in Obama on this one. I'm very angry about it, actually.
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Post by beebee on Dec 27, 2016 2:29:29 GMT
Glad you asked this! I was wondering myself what the Jewish peas thought. I always thought Obama was anti-Israel. I feel like Trump will be pro-Israel but we shall see.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
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Post by lizacreates on Dec 27, 2016 3:11:46 GMT
I disagree about Trump. I believe he will be much more pro-Israel. I tend to agree with you on this. I originally couldn’t peg Trump’s position on the conflict. Originally, he said he wanted to stay neutral, then, he seemed to be wavering by saying “ a lot will have to do with Israel and whether or not [they] want to make the deal…whether or not [they] are willing to sacrifice certain things.” Then, a shift again: “ When I become president, the days of treating Israel like a second-class citizen will end on day one.” There’s no ambiguity in that statement. Finally, appointing an Israel hard-liner and staunch defender – David Friedman – as ambassador to Israel, which indicates that Trump has decided brokering isn’t the way to go and his admin will be pro-Israel. (Have to say, we’ve had 3 administrations brokering peace since the days of Rabin and Arafat, and nothing has worked. I mean, 20 years ago, I was dumbfounded when I read in the papers that Netanhayu had a peace meeting with Arafat, weren’t you? Moving forward I don’t see him repeating that with Abbas; Netanyahu is too hardcore right-leaning. I think any hope for peace died with Peres.) Re the resolution, the Obama admin says Egypt and the Palestinians were circulating an earlier draft of it. Israel says their evidence proving otherwise will be given to Trump. It’d be interesting to know what’s really behind it and I hope whatever evidence there is will be shared with the public. (Hope you don’t mind my butting in even though I’m not Jewish.) |
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Post by Skypea on Dec 27, 2016 5:21:55 GMT
Israel claims to have solid proof that the Obama administration was behind the drafting of the resolution and the US abstention from voting allowed the resolution to pass. Thoughts? Personally, I have believed since 2008 that Obama was anti-Israel and in my mind, this last minute action in his term of office (when it can't hurt him politically) is just what I would have expected. no, I've never thought dbo was for Israel. very anti- Israel. a lot of his 'people' actively worked to defeat Netanyahu during his last campaign and from what I hear, used taxpayer money to do it. and last I heard - during the recent campaign here, the dems platform was not pro Israel either.
the land in question is Israel's from the '67 (?) war. there's no reason for them to give it to anyone. I hope Netanyahu holds his ground (literally).
God has warned against harming Israel - those who do will suffer for it.
the holding of the vote was dbo's middle finger to Israel, Netanyahu and Trump - it was deliberate against Israel which means it was deliberate against God. the 20th can't come soon enough for me - I'll be celebrating that day.
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Post by Skypea on Dec 27, 2016 5:27:23 GMT
I tend to agree with you on this. I originally couldn’t peg Trump’s position on the conflict. Originally, he said he wanted to stay neutral, then, he seemed to be wavering by saying “ a lot will have to do with Israel and whether or not [they] want to make the deal…whether or not [they] are willing to sacrifice certain things.” Then, a shift again: “ When I become president, the days of treating Israel like a second-class citizen will end on day one.” There’s no ambiguity in that statement. Finally, appointing an Israel hard-liner and staunch defender – David Friedman – as ambassador to Israel, which indicates that Trump has decided brokering isn’t the way to go and his admin will be pro-Israel. (Have to say, we’ve had 3 administrations brokering peace since the days of Rabin and Arafat, and nothing has worked. I mean, 20 years ago, I was dumbfounded when I read in the papers that Netanhayu had a peace meeting with Arafat, weren’t you? Moving forward I don’t see him repeating that with Abbas; Netanyahu is too hardcore right-leaning. I think any hope for peace died with Peres.) Re the resolution, the Obama admin says Egypt and the Palestinians were circulating an earlier draft of it. Israel says their evidence proving otherwise will be given to Trump. It’d be interesting to know what’s really behind it and I hope whatever evidence there is will be shared with the public. (Hope you don’t mind my butting in even though I’m not Jewish.) no, they don't want peace, they want the destruction of Israel. |
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Post by DinCA on Dec 27, 2016 6:16:04 GMT
I'm not Jewish but I have many friends who are. I've been upset about it all weekend. The resolution not only made the settlements illegal but jeopardizes praying at the wall as well.
I'm not a fan of Alan M. Dershowitz but he has been very vocal this weekend about it, stating that it was a "stab in the back". As a longtime supporter of Obama, who promised him personally that he would always be a friend to Israel, I have to believe that his feelings about it are likely shared by other Jews, too. I personally feel like it was an underhanded move on the part of the current administration. It's all so suspect, in my opinion.
And to have the ruling occur just before Hanukkah makes it that much worse.
As for Trump's position on Israel, he has been very vocal in his support for Israel as well as his desire to broker an agreement between Israel and Palestine. This resolution has made that near impossible now. His daughter and her family are Jewish, and they were all hoping for a different outcome.
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Dec 27, 2016 9:05:52 GMT
I am not Jewish so should perhaps not have commented y'day or be chipping in now. Last week we peas had discussions about Internationals vs USA and I think that was settled, but the issue of who gets to set rules for a thread (OP?) or within a thread is still being debated, I think.
I have a Q: I know the US (inter alia) could have exercised a veto but abstained instead. All other voting countries voted in favour. The US is now being "blamed". Is this because most believe the US still leads the world? Of course this is a broad brushstroke generalization.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:44:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 10:43:56 GMT
Why avoid the elephant in the room though? The settlements ARE illegal! They are going past the 67 borders. Land is being forcibly "annexed" to build new settlements. Water is being rationed to Palestinian communities so that these settlements have lush green grass when Palestinian families have to ration the water for basic needs. THIS is what you want to support?
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Dec 27, 2016 10:55:16 GMT
Why avoid the elephant in the room though? The settlements ARE illegal! They are going past the 67 borders. Land is being forcibly "annexed" to build new settlements. Water is being rationed to Palestinian communities so that these settlements have lush green grass when Palestinian families have to ration the water for basic needs. THIS is what you want to support? Elephant indeed. BIG one in a small room. To make things worse, I beliieve the next big wars (unless they are closer than we thought, iow just post-DT's inauguration on 20 January) will be fought over access to water. |
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Post by gulfcoastgirl on Dec 27, 2016 14:18:11 GMT
Not Jewish, but I am concerned about the persecution of Palestinians on the West Bank. The Zionists were the terrorists, IMO.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 27, 2016 15:02:37 GMT
It seems that Israel hasn't held up their end of the deals throughout Obama's presidency. Why does the US have to do everything to support Israel, even when they don't do anything to help the relations in their area?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
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Post by lizacreates on Dec 27, 2016 15:18:00 GMT
I am not Jewish so should perhaps not have commented y'day or be chipping in now. Last week we peas had discussions about Internationals vs USA and I think that was settled, but the issue of who gets to set rules for a thread (OP?) or within a thread is still being debated, I think. I have a Q: I know the US (inter alia) could have exercised a veto but abstained instead. All other voting countries voted in favour. The US is now being "blamed". Is this because most believe the US still leads the world? Of course this is a broad brushstroke generalization. It’s because the US is perceived to be an ally of Israel, exercising its veto numerous times since 2000. Up until 2011, the US position was that Israel and Palestine could still come up with an agreement and Obama had vetoed a resolution against Israel that year. That’s why the expectation was that Obama would veto again this time. This abstention, to me, signals the Obama admin abandoning any hope of agreement. Additionally, I see it as the last move in the very long and contentious relationship of Obama and Netanyahu. These two were never able to see eye to eye over the past 8 years…there has always been intense distrust and enmity between them. All of these are debatable, of course; they’re simply my opinions. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 27, 2016 15:43:48 GMT
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Post by annabella on Dec 27, 2016 15:46:25 GMT
It won't let me see it without an account, can you post the text? |
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on Dec 27, 2016 15:48:40 GMT
I am not Jewish so should perhaps not have commented y'day or be chipping in now. Last week we peas had discussions about Internationals vs USA and I think that was settled, but the issue of who gets to set rules for a thread (OP?) or within a thread is still being debated, I think. I have a Q: I know the US (inter alia) could have exercised a veto but abstained instead. All other voting countries voted in favour. The US is now being "blamed". Is this because most believe the US still leads the world? Of course this is a broad brushstroke generalization. It’s because the US is perceived to be an ally of Israel, exercising its veto numerous times since 2000. Up until 2011, the US position was that Israel and Palestine could still come up with an agreement and Obama had vetoed a resolution against Israel that year. That’s why the expectation was that Obama would veto again this time. This abstention, to me, signals the Obama admin abandoning any hope of agreement. Additionally, I see it as the last move in the very long and contentious relationship of Obama and Netanyahu. These two were never able to see eye to eye over the past 8 years…there has always been intense distrust and enmity between them. All of these are debatable, of course; they’re simply my opinions. Thank you! That makes sense. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 27, 2016 15:57:56 GMT
It won't let me see it without an account, can you post the text? I'm not sure how to do that on my phone. If there is a way, let me know! |
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 27, 2016 15:58:12 GMT
Why avoid the elephant in the room though? The settlements ARE illegal! They are going past the 67 borders. Land is being forcibly "annexed" to build new settlements. Water is being rationed to Palestinian communities so that these settlements have lush green grass when Palestinian families have to ration the water for basic needs. THIS is what you want to support? Palestinians are treated far more humanely than Jews and Christians are in Arab countries. They get free medical care, they are assisted with their needs. It is the radicals who incur the things you speak of. And tell me, what is Morocco or any other Arab country doing to help the Palestinian people other than inciting them? So yes, I support Israel. |
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Dec 27, 2016 15:58:59 GMT
It seems that Israel hasn't held up their end of the deals throughout Obama's presidency. Why does the US have to do everything to support Israel, even when they don't do anything to help the relations in their area? What deals have they not upheld? |
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Post by annabella on Dec 27, 2016 16:00:26 GMT
I'm not sure how to do that on my phone. If there is a way, let me know! You double click anywhere on the text and a box pops up asking if you want to select all, then click copy, and paste here. |
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My original pea date was November 1999 and my number was 1803
