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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 18, 2014 18:39:15 GMT
Yah this whole thing just irritates me. I'm like anxiousmom and looking for a job. I just turned 48 and really feel the age discrimination when I go out for interviews if I can even get them. Applying to be a driver at Pizza Hut or working at Motel 6 and not getting a call back sucks. I've been at it over 18 months and I'm just wanting to contribute. I'd be a damn good employee too. My kids are teens now so I just want something simple so I can help out the family. I'd take something in my fomer field of accounting too though. Just give me a chance. You sound like you're making the move I want to make. This thread is discouraging, maybe I'll stay put  |
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luvnlifelady
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by luvnlifelady on Aug 18, 2014 18:46:17 GMT
This just backs up my feelings now that I would recommend to DD or even DS to not leave the work force entirely when raising young kids. I wish now I had stayed in part-time since getting back in has proved difficult. I have great experience and work ethic but not many employers can overlook the age thing.
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Post by ChicagoKTS on Aug 18, 2014 18:53:51 GMT
I opened this shortly after it was posted and before there were any replies. The comment about age just about sent my blood pressure off the charts so I stepped away before typing anything harsh. Stating that applicants were older than the person wanted is wrong, not to mention foolish, on so many levels. I have lots of things to say to the OP but I think I had just best keep it to myself and show some compassion and kindness to the OP (which is more than she is showing to those applying for the job).
ETA: BTW. . . it's a COVER letter, not a covering letter. An older, seasoned admin would know that and be able to assist you in proper use of language.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 18, 2014 20:00:48 GMT
Perhaps the OP regards the admin assistant position as an entry level job with lower wages than perhaps an older or more experienced person would be prepared to accept. Then perhaps she should open her mind. As I've stated in my posts, some of us older types have are seeking balance in another form, and have the means to allow it. I know I'm lucky to be in this position financially. That doesn't mean I will be irresponsible or unable to perform the job. And although my tech skills will always be bless than a current grad, I am fluent in my industry's software. Even better- I understand it's purpose and what to do with the reports it produces. I think perhaps OP should have written an ad that stated clearly, "entry level position". That would let experienced Admins know that the salary and expectations aren't huge, but if they want to apply they could tailor their CL accordingly. Yes, I'm overqualified, yes I know the salary isn't in the $$$$ range, etc., or like anon says, explain a little about her experience level and why she is a top candidate regardless of a current grad date. Some people will put in their CL that they have children that are grown and want to get back into the workforce, etc. That's what the CL is for anyway, to showcase you and what you bring to the table.
Here's our fave CL from our last round of searching for an Admin...
I am a 20XX medical school graduate of XXXXXX with subsequent partial medical residency training in Internal Medicine and in Pathology. I voluntarily left pursuit of the medical profession. I am not a physician, and I will never return to the healthcare profession. I will never have any affiliation with healthcare in any capacity as I have permanently resigned from the healthcare profession in entirety. Many individuals of the healthcare profession are ‘slimy’, and no elaboration is needed. I will never and refuse to be one of the many whores of the healthcare profession.
I am looking for a new profession and for a new employment. I am an extremely motivated, dedicated, and enthusiastic individual with a strong work ethic. I have been emotionally harassed by the healthcare profession in subtle ways since I have permanently resigned. I want a financial security for myself and a new profession, both of which are in the administrative realm.
I emphasize that I will never be a whore of the healthcare profession nor in any other realm. I want to work, and I don’t want marriage nor children. The Greater XXXX area is garbage, and this includes hospitals that are not indicated on my resume.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
XXXXX XXXXX
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Post by chirpingcricket on Aug 18, 2014 20:29:53 GMT
Wow!!! To the cover letter above! Just wow. ROFL!!!
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 2:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 20:55:23 GMT
Even better- I understand it's purpose and what to do with the reports it produces. Yep - that is "even better"  |
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 2:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 21:07:04 GMT
This just backs up my feelings now that I would recommend to DD or even DS to not leave the work force entirely when raising young kids. I wish now I had stayed in part-time since getting back in has proved difficult. I have great experience and work ethic but not many employers can overlook the age thing. From the other side of the table, I would suggest that (at least for some employers) it's not an age thing but, indeed, a 'gap' problem. The gaps can communicate the obvious things such as a need to bring tech skills up to date, etc. But those you probably have already thought about and are addressing. One thought you may not have had - sometimes the gap communicates that employment is an optional state of convenience for the employee. IRL, this means that sometimes employers get burned by the employees who don't have to work and - when faced with something that does not come easily to them or is stressful (as happens in all positions from time to time) or is inconvenient (eg. interferes with the next fun personal thing), they just up and quit instead of digging in and getting through that moment/task. So, you might want to consider making sure you are communicating (both subtly and outright) that even though your hours are PT, your commitment is FT! |
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Post by Sam on Aug 18, 2014 21:08:05 GMT
All I get is that the OP doesn't want the people most qualified because they will expect a wage reflecting their skills, thought she found a young kid who wouldn't know any better and was caught off guard by their questioning of the wage.
If you are not seeking a professional of any age, just keep looking, and get what you pay for.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 18, 2014 21:11:42 GMT
Perhaps the OP regards the admin assistant position as an entry level job with lower wages than perhaps an older or more experienced person would be prepared to accept. You would be surprised what people will accept and why. |
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Post by hop2 on Aug 18, 2014 21:16:22 GMT
This just backs up my feelings now that I would recommend to DD or even DS to not leave the work force entirely when raising young kids. I wish now I had stayed in part-time since getting back in has proved difficult. I have great experience and work ethic but not many employers can overlook the age thing. Yes, it is true. Apparently it is some sort if sin or crime to raise children and or tend dying parents that employers run screaming like you bear the plague or something. Drives me batty. And I did accept part time lower paying work to get started again but it's really sinful that it should matter. |
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 18, 2014 21:24:04 GMT
[quote source="/post/156044/thread" timestamp="1408387577" author=" luvnlifelady...the gap communicates that employment is an optional state of convenience for the employee. IRL, this means that sometimes employers get burned by the employees who don't have to work and - when faced with something that does not come easily to them or is stressful (as happens in all positions from time to time) or is inconvenient (eg. interferes with the next fun personal thing), they just up and quit instead of digging in and getting through that moment/task. So, you might want to consider making sure you are communicating (both subtly and outright) that even though your hours are PT, your commitment is FT! I will remember this! I've been trying find language to describe I want to work less due to teens: aging parents but not give impression I'm a flight risk if someone gets sick. Ideally I wouldn't to have to explain it, but I know that's dreaming. |
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Anita
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,705
Location: Kansas City -ish
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Post by Anita on Aug 18, 2014 21:50:08 GMT
I received a number of replies to my advert for an admin assistant. Most of the applicants were over qualified, older than what I am looking for etc. There was one that stood out and I felt I could call her for an interview. When I read her covering letter she asked what the salary would be. I was a bit put off by this but bear in mind this is my first time. Would you overlook this and interview her anyway? Or am I being weird? You're not being weird. You're being a judgmental bitch who should not in any way be in charge of hiring anyone. Ever. Grow up. |
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Post by miss_lizzie on Aug 18, 2014 22:09:06 GMT
I have friends--high ranking in their companies and very successful--who worked in high stress jobs for years and were just burned out. They left those jobs and took ones that they could leave at the end of the day, taking a lower salary for less stress and responsibility. My point is this: no one knows why someone wants a particular job. It's a shame (not to mention illegal) to dismiss an entire group of people simply because they don't fit what you imagined the ideal candidate to be. People will surprise you.
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Post by eebud on Aug 18, 2014 22:35:57 GMT
I always hear about age discrimination but I am not used to it being quite so blatant. I have told DH that if I were to get laid off, I would have a very hard time finding another position in large part due to my age. For someone my age, I have a little advantage over others my age because I didn't go to college directly out of high school so I was a little older when I graduated. I would still be really close to the age where a lot of the discrimination seems to start if someone were guesstimating my age based on my resume. Since I work in a profession with a huge number of overseas outsourced jobs, I know that I could be laid off at any time. For the first time in many years, I feel a tiny bit more security with my job but I know that could change at a moments notice. The OP post reminds me why we have been doing everything we can to prepare financially in case I do get laid off.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by mallie on Aug 18, 2014 22:44:46 GMT
I always hear about age discrimination but I am not used to it being quite so blatant. I have told DH that if I were to get laid off, I would have a very hard time finding another position in large part due to my age. For someone my age, I have a little advantage over others my age because I didn't go to college directly out of high school so I was a little older when I graduated. I would still be really close to the age where a lot of the discrimination seems to start if someone were guesstimating my age based on my resume. Since I work in a profession with a huge number of overseas outsourced jobs, I know that I could be laid off at any time. For the first time in many years, I feel a tiny bit more security with my job but I know that could change at a moments notice. The OP post reminds me why we have been doing everything we can to prepare financially in case I do get laid off. Oh, it's totally blatant. You're lucky if you haven't encountered it. I have only a very small gap in my employment history for maternity leaves and I have an advanced degree and great experience and stellar references. And yet? That means nothing. I looked for a job in my forties to do a career change and it was made quite clear to me that I was "too old" via "We are looking for someone to train OUR way" and other "niceties". I'm in my 50s now and need to make a job change and every single job for which I've applied, I've been told that I'm "overqualified" which is a shorthand for "too old" OR that "We don't think you would fit into our culture which is focused on people younger than you." I was even rejected for a job for which I was headhunted aggressively once the prospective employer asked what year I'd graduated college and I got the, "Oh. We thought....you... had graduated... more recently based on your appearance." The interview was clearly OVER, although I'd been told I was perfect, that my salary would be X, that they were thrilled that someone with my background was interested, etc. But because I was older than I appeared (apparently I look 10 years younger), suddenly I was persona non grata and was outta there in five minutes. The ridiculous part is how do they expect to hire someone with all those years of experience and education but also not hire someone of my age? Do they expect to hire someone who started working when they were 8? All I can say, OP, is that I hope you are never "too old" and need a job. Because you are part of the problem. |
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Post by eebud on Aug 18, 2014 22:55:52 GMT
I always hear about age discrimination but I am not used to it being quite so blatant. I have told DH that if I were to get laid off, I would have a very hard time finding another position in large part due to my age. For someone my age, I have a little advantage over others my age because I didn't go to college directly out of high school so I was a little older when I graduated. I would still be really close to the age where a lot of the discrimination seems to start if someone were guesstimating my age based on my resume. Since I work in a profession with a huge number of overseas outsourced jobs, I know that I could be laid off at any time. For the first time in many years, I feel a tiny bit more security with my job but I know that could change at a moments notice. The OP post reminds me why we have been doing everything we can to prepare financially in case I do get laid off. Oh, it's totally blatant. You're lucky if you haven't encountered it. I have only a very small gap in my employment history for maternity leaves and I have an advanced degree and great experience and stellar references. And yet? That means nothing. I looked for a job in my forties to do a career change and it was made quite clear to me that I was "too old" via "We are looking for someone to train OUR way" and other "niceties". I'm in my 50s now and need to make a job change and every single job for which I've applied, I've been told that I'm "overqualified" which is a shorthand for "too old" OR that "We don't think you would fit into our culture which is focused on people younger than you." I was even rejected for a job for which I was headhunted aggressively once the prospective employer asked what year I'd graduated college and I got the, "Oh. We thought....you... had graduated... more recently based on your appearance." The interview was clearly OVER, although I'd been told I was perfect, that my salary would be X, that they were thrilled that someone with my background was interested, etc. But because I was older than I appeared (apparently I look 10 years younger), suddenly I was persona non grata and was outta there in five minutes. The ridiculous part is how do they expect to hire someone with all those years of experience and education but also not hire someone of my age? Do they expect to hire someone who started working when they were 8? All I can say, OP, is that I hope you are never "too old" and need a job. Because you are part of the problem. I guess the main reason I haven't encountered it personally is because I have been at my current job for 17 years so it has been a while since I was job hunting. At the time, I had a skill set that was in great demand so jobs were easy to come by no matter what your age. A lot of people were coming out of retirement to work for a few more years because they had the skill set that was badly needed at that time. The only other job hunting I have done during those years are when I have changed positions within my company. I have not had an issue with age discrimination here. I have friends that are around my age, give or take a few years, who have been job hunting and have felt that they have been discriminated against due to their age but it has not been so blatant that someone has actually said they are too old. |
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Post by whipea on Aug 19, 2014 13:34:38 GMT
I received a number of replies to my advert for an admin assistant. Most of the applicants were over qualified, older than what I am looking for etc. There was one that stood out and I felt I could call her for an interview. When I read her covering letter she asked what the salary would be. I was a bit put off by this but bear in mind this is my first time. Would you overlook this and interview her anyway? Or am I being weird? This may be harsh but you are not being weird, just incompetent. Please learn about running a business. Go to school, attend your local SCORE meetings and seminars, just do something besides running illegal adds for employees. Also as mentioned before, it is a cover, not "covering" letter. Please get an education. Why the "too old" comment? Is this candidate going to be a high fashion model or dancer in a music video? Many mature people make outstanding employees. Great work ethics, stable lives and emotional maturity. They do not spend the day texting, checking Facebook, being dramatic over the breakup with their boyfriend or arguments with friends. Not lumping all less mature people into this behavior as there are plenty of young people who are good workers. But this is from experience, our best workers are more mature, miss work less often and are grateful to be employed. |
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eisforennui
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by eisforennui on Aug 19, 2014 13:45:15 GMT
one reason people might be leery of hiring "older" candidates is that they may need more training in today's computer-centered world. but they also may not, and it's no reason to discriminate. also, immaturity isn't always attached to age.  |
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Post by Judie in Oz on Aug 19, 2014 14:01:27 GMT
Wow, I hope other employers don't think like you do. I'm 54, I'm looking for a job, and one of my fears is that people will think I'm too old. I'm in exactly the same position. I took some time off when my youngest was struggling with school and my parents were ageing. It ended up being more time than I thought. Now I desperately need a job and have been looking for 18 months or so. Had a couple of interviews, but no offers. My skills are up-to-date and I'm happy to do work I'm over-qualified for. I thought it would be easier than this. I hate reading that an employer blatantly discriminates due to age. |
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 2:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 14:51:34 GMT
Age discrimination is WRONG!
But I will offer a bit of perspective on the "overqualified " aspect. Pretty much every time I have hired an OQ person, they have left within 6 months. (1) because they aren't challenged to the level they want or (2) with the 6 months experience they can find something that pays more and is better or (3) they challenge the managers that deal with them because they can honestly come across with the attitude they are smarter/more knowledgeable, etc. No manager wants to hire someone who knows more than they do. or (4) they complain about the incompetence of their coworkers and get frustrated that "they are doing all the work".
I do try to give OQs a chance when it is possible. Right now, we have a retired cop working a very low level job. So far he hasn't experienced the above. But I once hired a SAHM who had been a bank vice president years ago for the same PT position and she didnt' last 2 weeks. She stated she missed being able to cook breakfast for her son (he was a SR in high school at the time). And complained that the other workers didn't pull their weight. She truly could have managed the business but we already had a manager.
And honestly sometimes people returning to the workforce have a really hard time re-acclimating to the fact that there is now a time commitment. You can't just decide to take a trip on a whim or go to a play that your child forgot to tell you about. I got lucky and found a flexible job about 7 years after leaving the corporate world.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Aug 19, 2014 15:49:01 GMT
Age discrimination is WRONG! But I will offer a bit of perspective on the "overqualified " aspect. Pretty much every time I have hired an OQ person, they have left within 6 months. (1) because they aren't challenged to the level they want or (2) with the 6 months experience they can find something that pays more and is better or (3) they challenge the managers that deal with them because they can honestly come across with the attitude they are smarter/more knowledgeable, etc. No manager wants to hire someone who knows more than they do. or (4) they complain about the incompetence of their coworkers and get frustrated that "they are doing all the work". This is very true. I once had an applicant that was so over qualified that I couldn't really understand why she was applying. We had a very candid conversation and she said basically it was the whole age thing and she couldn't seem to get in anywhere. I got her in touch with my personal head-hunter and heard later she got something much, much better with a lot higher pay than we were offering. |
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 2:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 15:56:31 GMT
older than what I am looking for etc. |
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on Aug 21, 2014 2:58:36 GMT
Wow!!! To the cover letter above! Just wow. ROFL!!! I see we are burning a few bridges today, you may want to rephrase most of that.  |
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Post by worrywart on Aug 21, 2014 3:17:50 GMT
Covering letter is not a common term in the US but I wonder if it is in other countries? Do other countries besides US have discrimination laws? Just curious because OP used the term advert in her post and that is not really used often in the US either.
Either way, OP, really you are losing some wonderful candidates if you are only looking at a certain age range..for salary, well many companies advertise for example 'up to $xxxxx' depending on experience. At least that gives job seekers a pay range.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
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Post by freebird on Aug 21, 2014 3:30:04 GMT
I'd much rather have a 50 year old woman that has no kids, is ok with having a lesser paying job (because husband probably makes good money), just wants to contribute or feel useful and will likely give me 10-20 loyal years, than to have a 24 year old who will get married have babies and quit or work her way up the ladder in a couple years.
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 21, 2014 3:42:49 GMT
DH is 45 & just recently accepted an entry level position for various reasons. He recently got his MBA in Finance and was making a career change. He loves his new job because of the growth potential so taking an entry level position at this time was a great move for us.
When I was chatting with his boss recently talking about his "big plans" he has for DH and he said he specifically chose DH for a variety of reasons. He obviously is bright and analytical and because he's in his 40's. He was looking for someone with a great work ethic and found that the majority of younger people he has interviewed in the past are sorely lacking in that.
So, "oldie" refupeas, please don't give up! <3
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Post by eebud on Aug 21, 2014 4:02:02 GMT
Covering letter is not a common term in the US but I wonder if it is in other countries? Do other countries besides US have discrimination laws? Just curious because OP used the term advert in her post and that is not really used often in the US either. Either way, OP, really you are losing some wonderful candidates if you are only looking at a certain age range..for salary, well many companies advertise for example 'up to $xxxxx' depending on experience. At least that gives job seekers a pay range. Very good point! Out of curiosity, I looked at some of the OP's other posts. She said that she is from South Africa. She also had posts that referred to it being a time that was about 7ish hours ahead of me. So, I don't believe she is in the U.S. I have no idea what kind of laws they have in South Africa if that is where she lives today, but I remember visiting other countries and looking at Want Ads in the newspaper and they would say things like "Female, between 18-25, etc.) In other words, very different from the laws in the U.S. |
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 2:26:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 4:06:32 GMT
DH is 45 & just recently accepted an entry level position for various reasons. I'm so glad it's working out for him and for your family! |
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 21, 2014 11:27:19 GMT
Covering letter is not a common term in the US but I wonder if it is in other countries? Do other countries besides US have discrimination laws? Just curious because OP used the term advert in her post and that is not really used often in the US either. Either way, OP, really you are losing some wonderful candidates if you are only looking at a certain age range..for salary, well many companies advertise for example 'up to $xxxxx' depending on experience. At least that gives job seekers a pay range. Very good point! Out of curiosity, I looked at some of the OP's other posts. She said that she is from South Africa. She also had posts that referred to it being a time that was about 7ish hours ahead of me. So, I don't believe she is in the U.S. I have no idea what kind of laws they have in South Africa if that is where she lives today, but I remember visiting other countries and looking at Want Ads in the newspaper and they would say things like "Female, between 18-25, etc.) In other words, very different from the laws in the U.S. Then if that is the case, I should, and will apologize for what I said if the business culture of her country allows for looking at age as a factor in employment. I stand by the issue *here* being a real problem, one that frustrates me enormously. |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Aug 21, 2014 13:02:13 GMT
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