Letter From Tonic Re: Tim Holtz Stamp Platform 4/12/17

I haven't put a preorder in anywhere because I am doing my best to hold off until I get moved out of state.  I don't want to buy now just to have to pack it up in a moving box.

I definitely want one though.  Especially when I do multiples of a design.  I am in a group of women where we meet up once a month and we all make cards ahead of time to trade so that you come home with one from each person participating.  There is usually 20 to 25 of us making cards, which means designing one then making 24 copies of it.  That gets tedius.   This stamp positioned will make it go much faster.  

I hope to be able to either locate an ongoing group or maybe start one once I get moved and settled in.  It's a fun evening and we all save money.  Well, I wouldn't be buying a lot of this stuff because I didn't know it existed until I attend the gathering and see it demonstrated, then I NEED it.

I haven't looked at the Misti platform.  How similar is the Tim Holtz to the Misti?

I feel like the Tonic is a superior design, and will probably be of much better quality than the misti.
I pre-ordered from Impress, so I hope it will eventually be available

I also feel like the Tonic is the best design of all of them out there. Furthermore, I am very confident in the quality of anything Tonic, based on numerous other tools of theirs I own. AND, I know that they stand behind their product if there is a problem. I had a small quality issue with a punch from them, and their customer service is STELLAR. 

Mine is on preorder from Marco Paper (and I rarely preorder anything; I prefer to wait and see what people say about it when they've been using it for a bit). Really hoping that this settles soon in Tonic's favor. 

Midorica - most of Tonic's Tim Holtz items do make it to the big box stores, but they sometimes take a while. 

I thought it was "patent pending" from pretty much the beginning. That's what she was using to threaten to sue people online with long before the Stampaholic, Hampton Arts, WRMK, and Tonic ones.

I think a lot of people did, but they didn't in the beginning. Which is why I was wondering why it took so long. But I guess we'll see what happens with Tonic..

I just read a review on the TH Platform from a stamper in the UK... I want my TH Platform more than ever now!  The bar hinge is wetal, as well as the lining of the sockets!  Tim is a genius!


silverwolfcards-shaz.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/here-it-is-tonictim-holtz-stamping.html

So glad I pre-ordered. That looks fantastic - can't wait!SaveSave

I don't really understand her charge against Tonic (compared to say the Stampoholic which is a direct copy). Their product is different in so many ways, even though the principals are the same. I mean aren't there so many car manufacturers out there? Or die cut machines? Or washing machines? etc...etc.
She may have patented the idea - but it was out there way before. I've seen youtube videos from France of "husbands" building their stamping wives a hinge stamping tool. The only thing she did, was to add the magnetic idea (which is great). People will continue to improve on ideas of others - that is human nature and why we can advance.

I just hope there will not be any more delays ... I've been waiting since the release in January!

Oh look, a One Post Wonder accidentally stumbles right here in here, decides it's time to make an account to pull the Big Bad Guys vs Small Good Guys card.



We are aware of all the information you felt so compelled to share from the bottom of your generous and altruistic heart. We have posted the litigation documents on this board already in several of the big discussions about the platform, C&D letters and lawsuits. And discussed them at length.

The conclusion still stands: she did not invent anything. She took an old idea which had already been brought back to life by modern-day stampers albeit in a more DIY format. She's going after everyone and anyone who dares to sell a freakin' stamp press no matter how different the design is. Even the people who dare to post about the stamp press they've made at home using their own drill and skills. Hold on, paging Gutenberg. "Hallo Johannes?"

And yes I'm snarky. I just got out of a presidential election with all these populists pretending they're small people like us to win over votes and sending out laments on social media through alleged little folks like us. I don't need another boohoo-poor-Ilyana campaign to deal with in my hobby too. She's made money, she has retained the throne for far longer than should've been permitted by sending out C&D letters to manufacturers and retailers, it's time to move on now and to adapt to a shifting marke where there is competition. And where you can't get away with defective product because you hold the monopole and people ought to just pay for another overpriced model of your nowadays-made-in-China who-knows-when-this-one-will-crack directly-based-on-a-veeery-old-invention product. Because that's what I call "squishing the little people."

Had she played her cards better with good customer service, good materials and not threatening to sue everyone one who dared to manufacture or home DIY a platform, she'd have retained a lot of customers out of pure loyalty despite the very high price tag. Not the case, not crocodile tears I'm going to worry about.

*steps off soapbox* Sorry for the grumpy rant, Peas!

sleepingbooty Keep going on your soapbox. I was thinking of you & my other friends in France during your election day.

To add I don't think MISTI is a small company any more since she is bragging about millions in sales. That puts her equal with Tonic. The last time I checked Tonic isn't that huge either.

Sure, emmalicious, One Post Wonder, you don't want to take sides, but you created an identity to do just that. If you were really paying attention, you would know that the MISTI was a gift to Tim Holtz, custom made at the request of some other crafters. And is it any surprised he retracted his mention of MISTI once they sued him?

This is the wrong place to bring your uninformed opinion, as this is where the attacks from "the little people" began. My opinion of "the little people" who "made millions" from a not-very-novel invention isn't swayed.

ITA, including Tim Holtz!

This is how a lot of crafters see it.

At this point, I suspect that whoever did the paperwork at the patent office was less than thorough when they granted the patent to MSP. The courts and lawyers will now be the ones to decide whether or not Tonic can go forward.  It sounds as though the Tonic design was altered even more to distinguish it from the MSP version. If MSP could get a patent while referencing the stamp press as a similar tool, I suspect that Tonic will be able to win the lawsuit. Patent lawyers know what will probably succeed and what won't.

Considering that Accu-cut was the first to come out with a roller die-cutter, which has since been copied, I think a lot has to do with details that we may not be able to see, details that are just different enough for another company to make something similar. There have been lawsuits before in the crafting world, and the end result has been that many of the copycats were able to continue making and selling their very similar product.

The delays due to the lawsuits tend to make crafters rather grumpy, though, which will probably not help MSP's sales. I think she has essentially shot herself in the foot. The lawsuits will probably hurt her sales more than help her in the long run. I'm certainly not willing to buy from her, because of all the unhappy reviews regarding her poor customer service. I may not like having to wait for the outcome of the lawsuit, but I'm willing to wait for what I feel is a superior product from a company with a track record of better customer service.

Not an expert in patent law, but the patent infringement lawsuit that Spellbinders filed against Quickutz/Lifestyle crafts back in the day is proof that patents are sometimes issued when they shouldn't be. (Spellbinders lost their lawsuit and their patent, I believe.)

And I'm not a Tim fangirl, but I don't care that he doesn't invent things. I don't buy anything just because it has his (or anyone else's) name on it. But when he releases his versions, they are usually an improvement over the original. I ~~think~~ that distress inks were around before the Nick Bantock inks, just not in all the colors, but since both are made by Ranger, it's not surprising that they would have some under one name and some under the other, much like the Dylusions stuff. Scissors are an old tool and not patentable, but Tim's Tonic scissors with the red handles? I have them in all 3 sizes and if anyone tries to take them away, I will not be responsible for my actions. Way better for crafting than any other scissors I own, and I confess to owning a number of them I have all the colors of the oxide ink and frankly they are nothing like chalk ink, other than the kind of chalky finish they develop if you set them with water. They don't behave the same way at all. 

By your reasoning, as soon as Thomas Edison patented his gramophone, no one should have been able to improve on the design.