MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 8, 2017 23:31:55 GMT
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2017 23:38:41 GMT
I think a special, additional ceremony to celebrate the accomplishment of minority students is no different than one to celebrate any other subgroup of students. Convocations, for example, are a type of graduation event often geared only toward Christian students.
I'm not seeing the big deal here.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on May 8, 2017 23:39:41 GMT
Shockingly, this is not as rare as it may seem. As noted by BET, "Stanford, Temple and Columbia all have Black student graduations." Actually, I am shocked. I had no idea this was something occurring in our society. How does it take away from anyone's achievement if students of all skin tones have their graduation ceremony together? Also, how do multiracial students and families handle the graduation ceremony? Are other ethnic groups also having separate graduation ceremonies based on their skin tone?
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 8, 2017 23:41:29 GMT
I think a special, additional ceremony to celebrate the accomplishment of minority students is no different than one to celebrate any other subgroup of students. Convocations, for example, are a type of graduation event often geared only toward Christian students. I'm not seeing the big deal here. Spin it around and try the new headline on for size: "Harvard To Hold Whites-Only Graduation Ceremony" I'm betting it wouldn't look quite so reasonable.
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2017 23:42:21 GMT
Shockingly, this is not as rare as it may seem. As noted by BET, "Stanford, Temple and Columbia all have Black student graduations." Actually, I am shocked. I had no idea this was something occurring in our society. How does it take away from anyone's achievement if students of all skin tones have their graduation ceremony together? Also, how do multiracial students and families handle the graduation ceremony? Are other ethnic groups also having separate graduation ceremonies based on their skin tone? I'd be very surprised if the black students aren't also attending the regular graduation. I think this "article" is intended to be inflammatory by implying otherwise.
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2017 23:44:09 GMT
I think a special, additional ceremony to celebrate the accomplishment of minority students is no different than one to celebrate any other subgroup of students. Convocations, for example, are a type of graduation event often geared only toward Christian students. I'm not seeing the big deal here. Spin it around and try the new headline on for size: "Harvard To Hold Whites-Only Graduation Ceremony" I'm betting it wouldn't look quite so reasonable. Yes, we've done this a thousand times before. Most of us are able to acknowledge that historically oppressed minority groups may set something apart just for themselves where it would be inappropriate for the historical oppressors to do so. *yawn* Next?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 7:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 23:45:49 GMT
IMO, I don't think MLK Jr. would've been "proud". His dream was that the sons of slaves and sons of former slave owners sit down together in brotherhood. That would mean one ceremony...together in brotherhood. His dream was that one day his 4 little children would not be judged based on the color of their skin but the content of their character.
IMO, I don't think segregating ceremonies based on skin color is necessary, or in any way, anything that the great civil rights leaders of the past would've embraced.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 8, 2017 23:45:57 GMT
Actually, I am shocked. I had no idea this was something occurring in our society. How does it take away from anyone's achievement if students of all skin tones have their graduation ceremony together? Also, how do multiracial students and families handle the graduation ceremony? Are other ethnic groups also having separate graduation ceremonies based on their skin tone? I'd be very surprised if the black students aren't also attending the regular graduation. I think this "article" is intended to be inflammatory by implying otherwise. I do agree with you here. Your explanation of the article makes much better sense to me. I did find a Boston Globe article that seems to paint a more balanced picture of the event: "Black students at Harvard to hold their own commencement ceremony"
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cali
Shy Member
Posts: 29
Jul 31, 2016 20:27:48 GMT
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Post by cali on May 8, 2017 23:50:26 GMT
I attended the multicultural graduation for grad school. It was a smaller event held the day before the main ceremony. I also walked at the regular ceremony with my family in attendance.
In grad school, I was often the only person of color in my classes. That made some classes, like multicultural psych, SUPER fun. I can imagine that it's hard to understand what that's like. Participating in a ceremony with my peers who had a similar experience was meaningful to me, which is why I attended.
If you (general you) want to have a "whites only" ceremony before the main event because you feel left out, knock yourself out.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 8, 2017 23:58:33 GMT
If you (general you) want to have a "whites only" ceremony before the main event because you feel left out, knock yourself out. LOL, yeah...no.
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Post by epeanymous on May 9, 2017 0:05:03 GMT
We have been having Latinx and black student graduations at the school where I teach (private religious college) for years. I guess we should be thankful that no one here has ever suggested it is for anything other than to celebrate the accomplishments of students from communities who have been and continue to be underrepresented in the field of law. Our students learn all about the (recent and still ongoing) developments in the law regarding race -- after all, Brown v. Board is a core part of the constitutional law curriculum -- so maybe that is why in ten years I haven't heard a peep of concern.
Everyone goes to the main graduation ceremony as well.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 9, 2017 0:12:50 GMT
The "lead" in the first article is incorrect - by both omission and intention.
And that's the problem with partisan journalism.
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Post by missbennet on May 9, 2017 0:21:38 GMT
My understanding is that universities hold many smaller graduation ceremonies, some by major or college, some by ethnicity, some for just honors folks, some for military people, some for single majors. All those folks also participate in the main ceremony. Harvard's diversity is 207th out of 266 universities with the highest percentage being white students. The proposition of a whites only ceremony doesn't make sense when whites do now and have always made up the largest percentage of the student body (47.6% with the next largest group being Asian at 17.2%). SourcePeople who identify with the smaller groups, for example Native Americans, attend the small ceremonies if they wish. At my university, the smaller ceremonies held for minority groups on campus included Native American/First Nations people, and some others from specific countries I don't recall.
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Post by sunraynnc on May 9, 2017 0:22:31 GMT
Progress is where race is not a factor at all.
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Post by Merge on May 9, 2017 0:29:13 GMT
Progress is where race is not a factor at all. And yet that's not the word we live in. There seems to be an attitude among some that acknowledging a problem is perpetuating it.
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Post by pondrunner on May 9, 2017 0:31:13 GMT
Progress is where race is not a factor at all. But what does this mean to you? Often this is said in rhe same way that people say I don't see race, I just see people, and the problem is it is an oversimplification of the issue which is that some groups of people historically and currently experience different treatment in many areas of life. But race is a thing that exists, culture is a thing that exist, heritage and genetics and all the rest of it. I do not want to live in a race blind society, I want to live in a diversity celebrating society where every person can succeed and thrive in the cultural and familial strengths that exist in a multi racial society. To me the fact that black students feel they need to do this says that they still don't feel like the accomplishments of black students are recognized and celebrated in a way that's is meaningful for them.
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Post by pierogi on May 9, 2017 0:31:37 GMT
The "lead" in the first article is incorrect - by both omission and intention. And that's the problem with partisan journalism. The Daily Wire is known for this.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 9, 2017 0:31:51 GMT
Progress is where race is not a factor at all. Yes. But that assumes that a world where race is not a factor is the only metric by which to measure progress in race relations.
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Post by epeanymous on May 9, 2017 0:40:41 GMT
Progress is where race is not a factor at all. That is not where we are, and pretending we are there makes it so that we downplay some of the ongoing issues underrepresented students face. I teach criminal law and criminal procedure. We cover a number of cases that deal squarely with race, not because that is what I decided we are doing (although I would), but because a lot of the big cases feature race as a major issues -- cases involving profiling, the use of race in sentencing, mentions of race in jury deliberations. I generally have at most one or two students who are obviously by appearance black, and I know from talking to them outside of class that they often experience those materials a lot differently than white students do. Having other students in class say that they are more afraid of a young black man on the subway than a white man doesn't exactly make the young black man feel welcome in that community, even when the big bad professor steps in and tries to ameliorate the situation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 7:49:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 0:41:39 GMT
Not an issue at Harvard, why make it one? Just another example of pot stirring by right wing media.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on May 9, 2017 0:44:22 GMT
This has been a thing for decades. ASU has had a smaller ceremony (usually they call it a baccalaureat instead of commencement/graduation) for smaller groups - honors, college of education, Native American, Hispanic, etc. In a university like ASU you may have 5000+ people graduating at the main ceremony, so it's not likely that you'll do anything particularly special for that.
At the education ceremony, there were only about 100 people tops - and each was recognized individually. The focus of the speeches was education. At the Native American ceremony, there are even fewer students. They do things pertaining to that culture - things that wouldn't be meaningful to anyone else. At the Hispanic one, there was an emphasis on doing things in English and Spanish, as many of the parents may not understand. The speeches and music had to do with those cultures, and things that pertain to them.
If you want a "white graduation" you're welcome to have one - only there really isn't a "white culture" so I'm not sure what you'd do - mayonnaise and bad dancing? One thing you could do that would make sense is to do an Irish heritage (with bagpipes and lots of green) or Scottish (bagpipes and kilts) or whatever ethnic group you happen to belong to. Knock yourself out, I doubt anyone will really care.
There was nothing to keep me from participating in any of the smaller group ceremonies if I had wanted to.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 9, 2017 0:46:47 GMT
The "lead" in the first article is incorrect - by both omission and intention. And that's the problem with partisan journalism. The Daily Wire is known for this. Yes. When the intention of a news site is to rile up readers by only presenting part of the story, I'm out. Sure, go ahead and rile me up, but use the conventions of context and full disclosure that make up a well-reasoned argument. Convince me; don't dupe me. (Directed at the news site, not the OP. I'm becoming increasingly embittered by a nit-picking, context-less discourse.)
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on May 9, 2017 1:12:28 GMT
Heck, it's an extra celebration! Who could be against that? It's no different than if all the women there had a special celebration of their own, to celebrate that females have come so far in terms of equality. Live and let live.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,305
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on May 9, 2017 1:26:42 GMT
If you (general you) want to have a "whites only" ceremony before the main event because you feel left out, knock yourself out. LOL, yeah...no. LOL is right. The minute you attach the word "white" or "whites only" to anything the NAACP and the ACLU would be all over it before you could blink.
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,117
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on May 9, 2017 1:47:47 GMT
My university began having "Lavender Graduation" for LGBTQ students several years ago. The focus of the speakers is on the challenges faced by that community, and graduates are charged to use their education to make a difference. We also have multicultural ceremony for students of color, and the focus is on how they can use their education to better their communities. Both of these ceremonies acknowledge the challenges and struggles these students have faced during their time on campus.
We also have separate ceremonies for some of our graduate programs. For instance, our Master of Science in Industrial Relations (human resources) holds a ceremony for graduates and families at a local hotel the morning of the "big" graduation. They have special speakers focused on human resources and the challenges presented in today's business world.
ALL of theses students still attend regular graduation. Each college within the University has its own commencement because there are just too many students to fit in one venue. They start Friday morning and finish up around 5:00 Sunday afternoon. The students that attend Lavender Graduation and the multi-cultural one (I'm sorry, I don't know the name of that one) come from all across campus, so LGBTQ students in Education will attend with those in Business.
We had some folks who were quite upset at this concept over the past couple of years, and honestly, I just don't see the problem. Fraternities and sororities have done these "recognitions" forever, so why can't other students who identify with each other and have something in common other Greek life come together to celebrate?
If I'm not mistaken, there is a special ceremony for students in the TRIO programs (first-generation students, students with limited means, etc.), so those students identify with each other through their common experiences. They come together to celebrate each other and their accomplishments, and they are joined by the staff that worked so hard to see them earn a degree. The Honors College has its own ceremony which brings together students in the Honors program who are enrolled in all colleges across campus.
We have about 6000 students graduate each year. These smaller ceremonies allow colleges and identity groups to select speakers from among students. I know I gave the address for my graduating class of education majors back in 1985. We did that in the morning, and then we all attended the main graduation in the afternoon. We had far fewer graduates back then, so we were all able to fit in the Coliseum for commencement, but only the PhDs, EdDs, JDs, and MDs were called to walk across the stage. The rest of us just stood up as they "conferred" our degrees en mass.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 9, 2017 2:01:31 GMT
My university began having "Lavender Graduation" for LGBTQ students several years ago. The focus of the speakers is on the challenges faced by that community, and graduates are charged to use their education to make a difference. We also have multicultural ceremony for students of color, and the focus is on how they can use their education to better their communities. Both of these ceremonies acknowledge the challenges and struggles these students have faced during their time on campus. We also have separate ceremonies for some of our graduate programs. For instance, our Master of Science in Industrial Relations (human resources) holds a ceremony for graduates and families at a local hotel the morning of the "big" graduation. They have special speakers focused on human resources and the challenges presented in today's business world. ALL of theses students still attend regular graduation. Each college within the University has its own commencement because there are just too many students to fit in one venue. They start Friday morning and finish up around 5:00 Sunday afternoon. The students that attend Lavender Graduation and the multi-cultural one (I'm sorry, I don't know the name of that one) come from all across campus, so LGBTQ students in Education will attend with those in Business. We had some folks who were quite upset at this concept over the past couple of years, and honestly, I just don't see the problem. Fraternities and sororities have done these "recognitions" forever, so why can't other students who identify with each other and have something in common other Greek life come together to celebrate? If I'm not mistaken, there is a special ceremony for students in the TRIO programs (first-generation students, students with limited means, etc.), so those students identify with each other through their common experiences. They come together to celebrate each other and their accomplishments, and they are joined by the staff that worked so hard to see them earn a degree. The Honors College has its own ceremony which brings together students in the Honors program who are enrolled in all colleges across campus. We have about 6000 students graduate each year. These smaller ceremonies allow colleges and identity groups to select speakers from among students. I know I gave the address for my graduating class of education majors back in 1985. We did that in the morning, and then we all attended the main graduation in the afternoon. We had far fewer graduates back then, so we were all able to fit in the Coliseum for commencement, but only the PhDs, EdDs, JDs, and MDs were called to walk across the stage. The rest of us just stood up as they "conferred" our degrees en mass. Thank you for your perspective. All of these separate ceremonies make sense. Having a whites-only ceremony would not make sense. The only reason to even discuss it is to lay claim to either hypocrisy or persecution-of-the-majority. Without context. Again. Which is the theme of countless derailed threads here. I would be very interested in hearing the REASON for a whites-only ceremony - instead of just laments about how it would be received. Chicken--egg.
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Post by Linda on May 9, 2017 2:18:46 GMT
I would be very interested in hearing the REASON for a whites-only ceremony - instead of just laments about how it would be received. Chicken--egg. I don't see a point to a whites-only ceremony at a white-majority institution, personally. I do see the point of smaller ceremonies separate and distinct from the main graduation at an institution that graduates thousands at a time. That said - perhaps a whites-only ceremony might be appropriate at a historically black college where white students are a miniority? I don't know - I think I personally would still be uncomfortable with it, more so than I am with blacks-only, latinos-only, honours-only, and so on ceremonies. I'm sure that speaks to my own personal biases...
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Post by lucyg on May 9, 2017 2:33:29 GMT
I think a special, additional ceremony to celebrate the accomplishment of minority students is no different than one to celebrate any other subgroup of students. Convocations, for example, are a type of graduation event often geared only toward Christian students. I'm not seeing the big deal here. Spin it around and try the new headline on for size: "Harvard To Hold Whites-Only Graduation Ceremony" I'm betting it wouldn't look quite so reasonable. I don't know. Are you going to be requesting White History Month next? I thought we settled this kind of thing ages ago. The people that society grinds under its heel for generations or centuries get to celebrate their heritage, sex, or whatever sets them apart. The people who do the grinding ... not so much.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 9, 2017 2:45:42 GMT
Spin it around and try the new headline on for size: "Harvard To Hold Whites-Only Graduation Ceremony" I'm betting it wouldn't look quite so reasonable. I don't know. Are you going to be requesting White History Month next? I thought we settled this kind of thing ages ago. The people that society grinds under its heel for generations or centuries get to celebrate their heritage, sex, or whatever sets them apart. The people who do the grinding ... not so much. I agree with you actually and admit to being a bit taken in by the Daily Wire which is why I also posted the Boston Globe article seeing as they did a much better job of explaining what is really going on. I knee jerked, I admit it.
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Post by lucyg on May 9, 2017 4:52:01 GMT
I don't know. Are you going to be requesting White History Month next? I thought we settled this kind of thing ages ago. The people that society grinds under its heel for generations or centuries get to celebrate their heritage, sex, or whatever sets them apart. The people who do the grinding ... not so much. I agree with you actually and admit to being a bit taken in by the Daily Wire which is why I also posted the Boston Globe article seeing as they did a much better job of explaining what is really going on. I knee jerked, I admit it.
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