Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:04:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:02:35 GMT
At this point I just hope this stink drags out until closer to the 2018 election because The citizens have very short memories and I want this mess fresh in everyone's minds come time to vote. The second benefit is that the repubs are so busy coping with trump they haven't had time to do as much damage as they would if they were a well oiled machine. And lastly it is pure entertainment. That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office?
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on May 17, 2017 23:06:41 GMT
The truth is important. Find out what happened, make sure it doesn't happen again.
It's also important to find out who knew about any crimes and chose to do nothing about it in the pursuit of party power over country.
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Post by Merge on May 17, 2017 23:15:13 GMT
At this point I just hope this stink drags out until closer to the 2018 election because The citizens have very short memories and I want this mess fresh in everyone's minds come time to vote. The second benefit is that the repubs are so busy coping with trump they haven't had time to do as much damage as they would if they were a well oiled machine. And lastly it is pure entertainment. That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office? Can't it be both? Obviously most of us aren't entirely neutral observers here. Getting to the truth and, if warranted, getting a corrupt and possibly criminal president out of office is job one. Breaking the far right's stranglehold on our national politics is definitely a potential pleasant byproduct. (And yeah, for those of us who feel we and our candidate were "done wrong" by the events of the last year or so, there's more than a little schadenfreude in watching this all go down.)
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,831
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on May 17, 2017 23:24:33 GMT
Wapo just broke story: transcripts of gop meeting where someone brings up Putin/trump money collection. Ryan swears everyone to secrecy and says no leaks!
Bottom line is, it looks like GOP leaders knew trump was being funded by Putin and were more concerned about covering up than protecting the country from Russian interference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:33:11 GMT
Wapo just broke story: transcripts of gop meeting where someone brings up Putin/trump money collection. Ryan swears everyone to secrecy and says no leaks! Bottom line is, it looks like GOP leaders knew trump was being funded by Putin and were more concerned about covering up than protecting the country from Russian interference. I'm not sure they knew anything for sure. It think it was more they didn't want anybody hear them even bringing it up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:58:55 GMT
That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office? Can't it be both? Obviously most of us aren't entirely neutral observers here. Getting to the truth and, if warranted, getting a corrupt and possibly criminal president out of office is job one. Breaking the far right's stranglehold on our national politics is definitely a potential pleasant byproduct. (And yeah, for those of us who feel we and our candidate were "done wrong" by the events of the last year or so, there's more than a little schadenfreude in watching this all go down.) I certainly can be both. I didn't get that vibe from her post though, but I could be wrong. What I find interesting is I've heard so many commentators say the democrats were more interested in keeping the WH bogged down with repeated calls for investigations to prevent the R's from advancing their agenda, and using the investigations to win more seats in 2018, etc. I always shrugged it off because I'm most certain I've probably heard it on Fox or listening to a R, but her statement, to me at least, echoed what I've heard so many times.
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Post by Merge on May 18, 2017 0:05:49 GMT
Can't it be both? Obviously most of us aren't entirely neutral observers here. Getting to the truth and, if warranted, getting a corrupt and possibly criminal president out of office is job one. Breaking the far right's stranglehold on our national politics is definitely a potential pleasant byproduct. (And yeah, for those of us who feel we and our candidate were "done wrong" by the events of the last year or so, there's more than a little schadenfreude in watching this all go down.) I certainly can be both. I didn't get that vibe from her post though, but I could be wrong. What I find interesting is I've heard so many commentators say the democrats were more interested in keeping the WH bogged down with repeated calls for investigations to prevent the R's from advancing their agenda, and using the investigations to win more seats in 2018, etc. I always shrugged it off because I'm most certain I've probably heard it on Fox or listening to a R, but her statement, to me at least, echoed what I've heard so many times. *shrug* I'm sure the Democrats aren't above using this mess for their own political gain. But if Trump hadn't given them so much to work with, there wouldn't be any mess to begin with. The ongoing investigations into Benghazi and her emails played a big part in costing Hillary Clinton the presidency, and the Republicans played that for all it was worth - you bet they stretched it out to make sure it affected the 2016 election. (Eight investigations? Really?) So I'm not really seeing any Republican high horse there.
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Post by mollycoddle on May 18, 2017 0:14:50 GMT
At this point I just hope this stink drags out until closer to the 2018 election because The citizens have very short memories and I want this mess fresh in everyone's minds come time to vote. The second benefit is that the repubs are so busy coping with trump they haven't had time to do as much damage as they would if they were a well oiled machine. And lastly it is pure entertainment. That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office? Both. I don't agree with their agenda.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:04:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 0:20:21 GMT
I certainly can be both. I didn't get that vibe from her post though, but I could be wrong. What I find interesting is I've heard so many commentators say the democrats were more interested in keeping the WH bogged down with repeated calls for investigations to prevent the R's from advancing their agenda, and using the investigations to win more seats in 2018, etc. I always shrugged it off because I'm most certain I've probably heard it on Fox or listening to a R, but her statement, to me at least, echoed what I've heard so many times. *shrug* I'm sure the Democrats aren't above using this mess for their own political gain. But if Trump hadn't given them so much to work with, there wouldn't be any mess to begin with. The ongoing investigations into Benghazi and her emails played a big part in costing Hillary Clinton the presidency, and the Republicans played that for all it was worth - you bet they stretched it out to make sure it affected the 2016 election. (Eight investigations? Really?) So I'm not really seeing any Republican high horse there. I totally agree with everything you said. And I've said it before, if Trump goes down it's his own doing. My main hope at this point is to get to the bottom, and move on. If Trump carries on...so be it. If he's ousted, move on to Pence. I wasn't paying much attention to exactly how many investigations there were into Hillary, but that sounds about close to Trump's investigations...I think I saw on Maddow the other day Trump's at 6 or 7? I'm not suggesting it's a tit for tat, just stating what was said on her show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 0:22:48 GMT
That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office? Both. I don't agree with their agenda. If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 18, 2017 0:26:40 GMT
It's interesting, I just saw a video of Ryan saying they would follow the facts and leave investigation to experienced professionals. It was a bit encouraging, hearing him even admit to irregularities and the need for investigation and oversight. Now I'm seeing that the headline media is leading with is that Ryan claims there are people who want to hurt the president. Annoying, because the newsworthy part of what he said was that he might be ready to face the facts, see actual memos, and hear from people who were there (Comey). But the media reports the inflammatory, defensive thing he said. As a single news bite, that dilutes the significance of his acknowledging saying there are investigations and they need to be done properly. To me, it's news that he would even say these things, whether or not he's suddenly interested in truth notwithstanding. The media isn't perfect of course, but I'm so glad for all these sites where you can see and hear what people actually said, and the way they said it, rather than always relying on other people to parse or interpret. Just my 0.02. GOP are just gaslighting to cover their asses.
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Post by mollycoddle on May 18, 2017 0:28:27 GMT
Both. I don't agree with their agenda. If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's? It will be similar. What I really want is for Dems to capture either the Senate or the House to minimize the conservative agenda. I'm being honest here; why not? I believe that the conservative agenda is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 18, 2017 0:31:12 GMT
Why didn't Comey pursue or report this in February? Why is it just coming to light after he was fired? Who's to say that he didn't report it? It could be part of what is already going on and in motion. Comey didn't reveal his notes, another staffer read them.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on May 18, 2017 0:34:02 GMT
Anonymous sources aren't just random people. The news media that reports these things know who the sources are, and have evaluated their credibility. The Comey memo at this point seems to be fairly well verified by all of the major news agencies. Just because they don't release the name of their source doesn't mean it's some guy leaving anonymous notes on their desks and they choose to go with it.Let's say Comey reports the issue immediately. To whom? Sessions? Sessions may well be involved in the whole deal, and Comey would know if that's the case. If Comey is in the middle of building a case against Flynn, Trump, Manafort...whomever - he's going to methodically add info along the way. This meeting with Trump may not have been enough to merit blowing whatever bigger thing they've got going on. Regarding the 2/3 instances I mentioned upthread: While the sources used have been evaluated and determined to be credible (by the journalist), contradicting testimony suggests the reporting isn't always correct. I don't think anonymous sources in general aren't valuable, and I agree with a PP that they can be a good way to get things questioned and looked into. However, since the information isn't always accurate, I personally choose to wait until all of the information is known. Contradicting "testimony" in this/these scenarios could be simply that a person, party, and its surrogates just lie A LOT.
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Post by mollycoddle on May 18, 2017 0:46:21 GMT
Why didn't Comey pursue or report this in February? Why is it just coming to light after he was fired? Who's to say that he didn't report it? It could be part of what is already going on and in motion. Comey didn't reveal his notes, another staffer read them. He was rightfully covering his ass. It was smart.
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Post by femalebusiness on May 18, 2017 0:51:01 GMT
At this point I just hope this stink drags out until closer to the 2018 election because The citizens have very short memories and I want this mess fresh in everyone's minds come time to vote. The second benefit is that the repubs are so busy coping with trump they haven't had time to do as much damage as they would if they were a well oiled machine. And lastly it is pure entertainment. That is so interesting. What's really important here then: getting to the truth no matter what it is, or getting the republicans' agenda stalled and out of office? Both are important and if we can kill two birds...
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Post by megop on May 18, 2017 0:58:46 GMT
But if Trump hadn't given them so much to work with, there wouldn't be any mess to begin with. This.
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Post by femalebusiness on May 18, 2017 1:13:48 GMT
@devildog I was not trying to be flip or snarky. I absolutely want the repubs thrown out. If they get their way women's rights will be set back decades, our environment will be irreparably harmed, this country will be ruled by the bible, our health care will be non-existent if you are middle class. On top of that our military spending will expand exponentially putting money into the pockets of the very wealthy and we all know what they want to do with taxes. The republicans do not care one iota about the average guy. I do not want that for myself or others. The funny thing is they want to shove the bible down our throats and base all law on that book. To me that is the same thing as Sharia law that they are so against. I would fight for the right of Christians to worship as they choose and yet they aren't willing to fight for my right not to be ruled under religious law.
So yes, I want most of the republicans out of office and this circus may help achieve that end.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on May 18, 2017 1:19:23 GMT
Both. I don't agree with their agenda. If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's? I'm just going to throw up my hands and call it quits if Pence becomes president. I'm centrist (centre-left) so I actually am not disappointed that Trump flip-flopped on some of his more extreme policies/stances and moved more toward the center. (That healthcare, though, that's just inexcusable.) With Pence, there's absolutely zero chance of moderation because I believe he's too far right. For example, Medicare and Social Security. At least Trump has kept his promise (so far) not to touch them. No guarantee, of course. But with Pence? Those will be among the first things to be assaulted. People like me never get full representation. Ever. At least Dems and Repubs get their chance every four or eight years. The best people like me can hope for is that we don't move too far right or too far left on anything.
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Post by megop on May 18, 2017 1:25:21 GMT
Well, as a pro-choice Republican female who now works in health care who happens to be Catholic, I can honestly tell you that there is at least one Republican in this country who doesn't want to shove anything down your throat. I will say that this last election left no viable mainstream candidate for me to place the importance and responsibility of my vote for because I think both parties have currently lost their minds. Sadly, I think that has much more to do with the voting public then we take credit for.
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Post by Skellinton on May 18, 2017 1:29:44 GMT
Both. I don't agree with their agenda. If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's? We have no idea what Trump's agenda is, other then just reversing everything Obama did because he is a petty, petty man. He flip flops all the time. Not a word that comes out of his mouth can be trusted. He has no idea what he is doing and has surrounded himself with incompetent people. Devos has absolutely no business being the Secretary of Education and Bannon shouldn't be within 100 yards of anyone making important decisions regarding this country. He is spending more time golfing then Presidenting and costing tax payers a fortune. He is simultaneously earning money from the secret service staying at Mar a lago. I absolutely do not like Pence , first and foremost becI think he has archanine ideas about women and I worry about the effect that could have. That being said, I think he HAS to be an improvement over a Trump. I don't worry about Pence being Putin's puppet or making uninformed decisions regarding other countries and the military. I don't think Pence would be good for the country, but I would infinitely prefer him over Trump. I think the Republicans in the senate and House are much more worried about themselves then their constituents and that is a huge problem.
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Post by megop on May 18, 2017 1:30:55 GMT
If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's? I'm just going to throw up my hands and call it quits if Pence becomes president. I'm centrist (centre-left) so I actually am not disappointed that Trump flip-flopped on some of his more extreme policies/stances and moved more toward the center. (That healthcare, though, that's just inexcusable.) With Pence, there's absolutely zero chance of moderation because I believe he's too far right. For example, Medicare and Social Security. At least Trump has kept his promise (so far) not to touch them. No guarantee, of course. But with Pence? Those will be among the first things to be assaulted. People like me never get full representation. Ever. At least Dems and Repubs get their chance every four or eight years. The best people like me can hope for is that we don't move too far right or too far left on anything. I have concerns over a Pence presidency. But at this point, my benchmark of just sanity would be pretty welcomed.
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Post by megop on May 18, 2017 1:33:51 GMT
I think the Republicans in the senate and House are much more worried about themselves then their constituents and that is a huge problem. As is every politician in DC.
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Post by refugeepea on May 18, 2017 1:34:45 GMT
Bottom line is, it looks like GOP leaders knew trump was being funded by Putin and were more concerned about covering up than protecting the country from Russian interference. Are you referring to the tapes that were just released of Ryan saying this in June 2016? I think he was truthful, but at the same time I think he had an agenda. Most of the Republican party did not want him elected. That's what makes me wonder if he didn't know and was desperate for him to be booted from the election. Remember the radio ad part of a voiceover narration used in a radio spot approved by Obama during the 2008 Democratic primaries about Hillary: "She'll say anything and change nothing." Eight years later he endorsed her. Both parties are two faced in every election. Once their guy with the R or D wins the nomination. They change their mind. Jason Chaffetz said he would not vote for Trump because it would be an insult to his wife and daughters, and then ""I will not defend or endorse @realdonaldtrump, but I am voting for him. HRC is that bad. HRC is bad for the USA (from twitter)," I might have missed him saying this recently. If so, that has a lot more weight.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:04:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 1:44:57 GMT
If Trump goes down for all of this, there's still a R president. Do you, or anybody else, think his agenda or priorities would be the same as Trump's? I'm just going to throw up my hands and call it quits if Pence becomes president. I'm centrist (centre-left) so I actually am not disappointed that Trump flip-flopped on some of his more extreme policies/stances and moved more toward the center. (That healthcare, though, that's just inexcusable.) With Pence, there's absolutely zero chance of moderation because I believe he's too far right. For example, Medicare and Social Security. At least Trump has kept his promise (so far) not to touch them. No guarantee, of course. But with Pence? Those will be among the first things to be assaulted. People like me never get full representation. Ever. At least Dems and Repubs get their chance every four or eight years. The best people like me can hope for is that we don't move too far right or too far left on anything. Interestingly, we both seem to fall in the same place. I consider myself a moderate that's more financially conservative and socially liberal. I can honestly say I never feel really good about who I vote for, which explains why I'm so back and forth and down the middle on the D/R agendas and priorities. I understand the concerns over Pence for sure. This is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Post by refugeepea on May 18, 2017 1:48:11 GMT
I consider myself a moderate that's more financially conservative and socially liberal. I can honestly say I never feel really good about who I vote for, which explains why I'm so back and forth and down the middle on the D/R agendas and priorities. Me too.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,919
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on May 18, 2017 2:13:02 GMT
I'm just going to throw up my hands and call it quits if Pence becomes president. I'm centrist (centre-left) so I actually am not disappointed that Trump flip-flopped on some of his more extreme policies/stances and moved more toward the center. (That healthcare, though, that's just inexcusable.) With Pence, there's absolutely zero chance of moderation because I believe he's too far right. For example, Medicare and Social Security. At least Trump has kept his promise (so far) not to touch them. No guarantee, of course. But with Pence? Those will be among the first things to be assaulted. People like me never get full representation. Ever. At least Dems and Repubs get their chance every four or eight years. The best people like me can hope for is that we don't move too far right or too far left on anything. Interestingly, we both seem to fall in the same place. I consider myself a moderate that's more financially conservative and socially liberal. I can honestly say I never feel really good about who I vote for, which explains why I'm so back and forth and down the middle on the D/R agendas and priorities. I understand the concerns over Pence for sure. This is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Lol. No wonder then - when I get a quick chance to check the board and I see your post I often think to myself "I could have written that!"
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on May 18, 2017 5:51:00 GMT
Yes, I'd like to know the answer to that as well. That's a serious allegation. If Trump asked Comey to abandon the Flynn investigation why didn't he immediately notify the DOJ? Or the Senate Intelligence Committee? Who at the DOJ would've done anything about it? Would he had to rely on Sessions to take action? Given how things have turned out, he would've been right not to trust Sessions. I would be interested to hear his answer to the question. Maybe Trump was loose enough in his wording that the literal words could be interpreted in different ways (a favorite tactic of him and his team) and that conversation on its own wasn't enough to take to somebody, but Comey felt uncomfortable enough about it to document it. Maybe in hindsight it seems it should've come out sooner and if Flynn hadn't been ousted, maybe he would have. It feels to me like any other case where people are encouraged to document - problems at work, marriage issues, etc. Maybe it's an incident on it's own that you don't think merits pursuing, but you want to hold onto it and it means more when the whole pictures is revealed. I am a bit behind, quoting this composite post to say that DH believes this is standard intelligence community practice, UK, USA etc. it is their job to build a file, not to go public. Which brings me me to my 0.02c worth: surely Comey going public, to Congress, whoever would have earned him the insults DT flung, namely that he is a showboat and a grandstander?
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Post by ScrapsontheRocks on May 18, 2017 6:08:58 GMT
It begins!!! www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-special-counsel-russia-trump_us_591cbfa2e4b03b485cae5465?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009WASHINGTON ― Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller to serve as special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election. "In a statement, Rosenstein stressed that his decision “is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted.” But he said he’d determined “based upon the unique circumstances, the public interest requires me to place this investigation under the authority of a person who exercises a degree of independence from the normal chain of command.” Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself in March from Russia matters after he failed to disclose during his confirmation hearing he had met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak." I was up at 2am our time and this was the breaking news. Repeating what I said on the other thread: I think this is the end of the tweets. The most powerful person in DC is now DT's lawyer, though I wish him big ones in trying to keep his client under control! I also had a question: if I understand your processes/ the reports so far this process will be conducted behind closed doors, Dang and Blast, so we may never hear the dope. This is unfortunate- what say the peas?
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Post by mollycoddle on May 18, 2017 9:59:12 GMT
It begins!!! www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-special-counsel-russia-trump_us_591cbfa2e4b03b485cae5465?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009WASHINGTON ― Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller to serve as special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election. "In a statement, Rosenstein stressed that his decision “is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted.” But he said he’d determined “based upon the unique circumstances, the public interest requires me to place this investigation under the authority of a person who exercises a degree of independence from the normal chain of command.” Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself in March from Russia matters after he failed to disclose during his confirmation hearing he had met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak." I was up at 2am our time and this was the breaking news. Repeating what I said on the other thread: I think this is the end of the tweets. The most powerful person in DC is now DT's lawyer, though I wish him big ones in trying to keep his client under control! I also had a question: if I understand your processes/ the reports so far this process will be conducted behind closed doors, Dang and Blast, so we may never hear the dope. This is unfortunate- what say the peas? Probably a lot will be conducted behind closed doors, but we will get the gist. I hope that it is the end of the tweets. He needs to stop. Regarding your question in the previous post, it is probably safe to say that Comeyis a bit of a showboat. My brother is a retired FBI agent, and he has told me that the people who get to the upper echelons in the Bureau are Alpha types. Comey has always been a prodigious note taker, from what I have read, so this is nothing new. And to be honest, it was wise of him to document his conversations with Trump.
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