Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 15:08:20 GMT papercrafteradvocate likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 15:08:20 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 13:06:21 GMT jenis40 said:

I have to say that Republicans are much better than Democrats at creating boogeymen (Clinton, Pelosi) and getting their message out which seems to be a message of "no". They haven't been very successful at getting their agenda through so far because it's difficult to go from just opposing everything to actually leading.

Democrats have a message and platform, I hear it most of the time a Democratic politician speaks. But the media, the pundits and most Republicans don't seem to hear it. We have a strange cognitive dissonance in this country regarding Democrats. Honestly, it feels like being a woman, being talked over and never heard.

That doesn't mean I don't think Democrats can't do better. I like Pelosi and think she did a great job as Speaker, much better than the Boehner and Ryan, in terms of getting legislation passed. But I also think it's time for new blood. I also think we have a big crack in the party right now thanks to Bernie Sanders and if we're not careful we'll end up just like the GOP, being ruled by a tyranny of the minority fringe.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT azredhead, papercrafteradvocate, and 4 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 15:30:28 GMT by Deleted

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 15:39:26 GMT Merge, papercrafteradvocate, and 2 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 15:39:26 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT @devildog said:

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

I agree with you there that we need more centrists. This country actually does better if it's governed from the middle slightly to the left or right depending on who is in the White House. And that word "compromise" needs to make a huge comeback.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 15:57:32 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 15:57:32 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:39:26 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT @devildog said:

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

I agree with you there that we need more centrists. This country actually does better if it's governed from the middle slightly to the left or right depending on who is in the White House. And that word "compromise" needs to make a huge comeback.

Ain't that the truth!

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 16:24:30 GMT lucyg, pierogi, and 3 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 16:24:30 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:57:32 GMT @devildog said:

Jun 24, 2017 15:39:26 GMT @fred said:

I agree with you there that we need more centrists. This country actually does better if it's governed from the middle slightly to the left or right depending on who is in the White House. And that word "compromise" needs to make a huge comeback.

Ain't that the truth!

The GOP vilified compromise when Obama was elected. They admitted that their purpose was to obstruct, not to find common ground.

" Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.” "

Many of the right-wingers in the GOP view compromise as a dirty word.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 16:28:35 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 16:28:35 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:05:38 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 10:37:50 GMT @jenny2 said:

Attack and run!!! (Or lack of conviction)

1) It was not an attack. I've been involved in a discussion. (mine was the 6th reply to the OP back on page 1) I'm so sorry that you think anyone posting something that differs from your opinion is an attack. That seems to be a problem with many on the left.

2) As far as the "attack and RUN" goes - I had a busy day yesterday including several phone calls, some packing, and most importantly, taking my son to a medical appointment. I offered an explanation as to why it may be several hours or more that I'd find my way back to the thread. I thought that was the decent thing. Here you are reading something else, COMPLETELY different, and yet again, assuming the absolute worst about me. That's shocking.

Talk about dramatic. Dramatic and hateful.

Gia does bring up a great point. The left has nothing else. I've seen a lot in especially the last week of even people on the left stating this opinion. I found this piece most interesting and he states many things that have been said on this board, even on this very thread that have been shot down by many on the left. (and keep in mind, Rolling Stone is not an arm of the Right)

"They're continuing, if not worsening, last year's mistake of running almost exclusively on Trump/Republican negatives. The Correct the Record types who police the Internet on the party's behalf are relentless on that score, seeming to spend most of their time denouncing people for their wrong opinions or party disloyalty. They don't seem to have anything to say to voters in flyover country, except to point out that they're (at best) dupes for falling for Republican rhetoric.

But "Republicans are bad" isn't a message or a plan, which is why the Democrats have managed the near impossible: losing ground overall during the singular catastrophe of the Trump presidency."

www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-democrats-need-a-new-message-w484569

1. You do attack. You can't defend and you won't condemn the actions of trump and the Republicans so you attack. You go on about how you are treated as the enemy because your views aren't the "accepted" ones. You make off the wall comments as gotchas when there is more to it then what your implying. And there are those ridiculous comparisons. I can understand not defending trump and to a certain degree not condemning the actions of the Republicans because in one sense it goes against your ideology. But the attacks are tiresome and serve no purpose except to cause folks to become testy and to deflect from the topic at hand. My thinking is if you don't agree and can't or won't defend the the actions of the topic sit it out.

2. Lack conviction. I asked, in general, for a list of positive things trump and the Republicans have done or plan on doing. You said you know of 5 but won't share them. My thinking is if it was me and I believe in then I would share them and shrug off the naysayers. Which makes me think you lack conviction or are a wimp.

3. Run. You do and I think it's kind of funny. You fire off this long post and then announce you won't be around to respond to anybody because of whatever reason. I find myself thinking who cares. You'll either be around or you won't. That is the nature of a place like this. People drift in and out throughout the day. No announcements necessary.

4. Republicans are bad. Well can you defend their current agenda? The way I see it (notice not afraid to offer what I know will be an unpopular opinion with some) the main difference between the Democrats and a Republicans is their version of a health care bill. The Democrats came up with the ACA to help all Americans to actually obtain health care insurance. The Republicans reason for a repeal and replace of the ACA is to clear the way for massive tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. If you disagree with my assessment please feel free to show me the error of my thinking.

Attack vs. discuss. Your opinion. I'm certain you'll get people that agree with you. I could even name them if you'd like. I think there are plenty of people that see that I am discussing.

Let me say again (because I have said this at least once before, perhaps even on this thread...I'm not going to go back to look) It's not up to me to defend or condemn Trump or the Republican party. I can condemn and defend with my vote...just like anyone else. I don't need to defend my vote, just as no one else needs to defend their vote. You don't like what Trump or the Republicans are doing...don't vote for them. I don't have the answers. Sometimes, I have a really hard time even trying to figure out what everything means. Sometimes, I just don't have the time to do heavy research. But guess what? I'm not an elected official. It's not my job...it's not on my "to do" list. You seem to know so much why aren't you running for office? You seem to have all of the answers. Lacking conviction and calling me a wimp. Great. I think you're beyond unhinged. I'm guessing that those that think I attack are the same ones that I too think are unhinged. You are not alone in the unhinged camp here on this board. You can think I'm a wimp because I'm not going to get dragged into daily fights that don't mean anything and won't change a thing on this board and I think you're nuts. I suppose we're even.

Regarding the "running". I do recall people posting and being gone...and others making smart ass comments about them posting something and running off. It's happened more than once and more than a handful of times. Don't like my announcements? Maybe you should simply block me.

I'm not going to debate your ideas of what the Democrats planned on with Obamacare and what the Republicans plan on for Trumpcare. You stating that the Democrats wanted to help ALL AMERICANS to actually obtain health care insurance. What you fail to mention is that it came with the huge cost, burdening American families who had previously paid for their coverage and had health care...but then the premiums rose, the deductibles rose...it was never a fix. NEVER. Obamacare did absolutely nothing to curb the out of control health care crisis in this nation. But this is all something I've said 100 times on this board.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT @devildog said:

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 16:45:17 GMT via Tapatalk

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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 24, 2017 16:45:17 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 14:54:01 GMT @devildog said:

Jun 24, 2017 13:05:50 GMT papercrafteradvocate said:

Why even try with those two? It's an attempt that is futile at best--one is condescending and makes slams and takes digs against the left constantly while pretending to not be doing it herself, and the other a broken record with the same message.

What's funny is that they post the same way all the time with nothing of substance between their opportunity to berate the left.

There are plenty of those on the right who have clicked the "like" when it's the Democrats being demonized by the right.

Just like saying the "Democrats have no message" snippet --they don't see anything because they aren't looking because it goes against their views. (And it's pretty ironic that they are pretending to even be interested in a Democratic message!!) it's just a way of belittling or turning conversation.

they need to stop pretending that they are not doing it all the while doing it themselves.

(Bold is mine)

Since I'm the one that made the comment, I'll add more to my original post about it:

@zingermack You link a lot of articles here, so I know you read a lot. Can you honestly say you don't read, on a daily basis, if not several times a day, the constant comments from Democrats talking about Russia, collusion, obstruction of justice, impeachment, and anything else. It's every.single.day. It is hour after hour, expert panel after expert panel, discussing and dissecting anything and everything Trump that will lead to his impeachment and possible removal from office.

Auntie Maxine bellowed Impeach 45 for months, Nancy Pelosi was the same although she did say a few months ago it was time for the Democrats to step back from that rhetoric. Every single time I saw a Democrat talking on t.v., it was how they're closer to obstruction, closer to impeachment, etc.

To be VERY clear: I'm as concerned about Russia as everybody else. I'm also concerned and want to know if Trump and anybody in his administration crossed the lines. The thing is: I don't want to hear about it every.single.day. and I've really started to tune it out.

If anybody cares to look at some of the articles @jenny2 linked, you might see a bit of what I'm referring to. I'm not making it up about the rhetoric, listen to some of your own Democratic leaders.

And contrary to what you might think papercrafteradvocate , I do want to hear all sides. Why? Because I'm not party loyal. I'm IN THE MIDDLE, and which party I vote for changes from election to election. Nothing set in stone for me.

I'm all for hearing both sides--however with the comment I made that you're quoting, that's not what is going on. I'm not suppressing anyone's actual opinions, I'm commenting that there are not any--just slams that the left is always bad and a bunch of meanies!

We're more similar--I don't always vote party, however this round, I'm definitely anti republican with the idiots who are rolling out all this terrible crap and removing protections in place for people.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 17:16:52 GMT Merge, papercrafteradvocate, and 2 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 17:16:52 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT @jenny2 said:

Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT @devildog said:

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

Actually they didn't, that is just an urban myth. Also did you know the ACA contains over 100 GOP amendments? That there were debates, hearings, and question and answer sessions and that some were televised. President Obama went to the Republican caucus retreat and answered all the questions the GOP had for him about the ACA. President Obama also gave a speech laying out his case for the ACA at a joint session of Congress that was televised.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 17:28:21 GMT via Tapatalk SockMonkey, lucyg, and 5 more like this

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Post by Merge on Jun 24, 2017 17:28:21 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 17:16:52 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT @jenny2 said:

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

Actually they didn't, that is just an urban myth. Also did you know the ACA contains over 100 GOP amendments? That there were debates, hearings, and question and answer sessions and that some were televised. President Obama went to the Republican caucus retreat and answered all the questions the GOP had for him about the ACA. President Obama also gave a speech laying out his case for the ACA at a joint session of Congress that was televised.

And then after all that, when the Republicans were unable to stop the bill, they invented the myth (lie) that this had all been done without their knowledge or input. And it's been repeated so many times that people believe it's true.

Republicans are masters of revisionist history.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:08:10 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:08:10 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 12:38:25 GMT @zingermack said:

Jun 24, 2017 7:54:05 GMT @mytnice said:

THAT is the whole point of having a discussion. If you disagree, say why and what you base your reasoning on, otherwise it reads as nothing more than another way to dismiss views you disagree with. Contrary to popular opinion here, discussion isn't only for those you agree with.

No. The point in having a discussion is to be reasonable. The statement to which I was replying is not a reasonable statement because it said "Democrats have no message or agenda other than to get Trump out. " when clearly thousands of pages on Dem candidate web sites show their agendas. I'm not going to repeat them all here.

Well then, in your own words, what do you think their message is? So far all that has been said by anyone responding to the original point made by devildog, is that the Democrats DO have a message, but no one has said what it is other than to restate her original point that all they can focus on is stop/get rid of Trump.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:08:41 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:08:41 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 17:16:52 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT @jenny2 said:

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

Actually they didn't, that is just an urban myth. Also did you know the ACA contains over 100 GOP amendments? That there were debates, hearings, and question and answer sessions and that some were televised. President Obama went to the Republican caucus retreat and answered all the questions the GOP had for him about the ACA. President Obama also gave a speech laying out his case for the ACA at a joint session of Congress that was televised.

And I will add that during the time the ACA was being put together I remember was getting frustrated with the Democrats because they let Republicans pull their chain. Or another way to look at it. You know that Charlie Brown bit where Lucy holds the football and invites Charlie Brown to kick it. Then at the last minute she moves it away and Charlie Brown ends up flat on his back.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:18:03 GMT jayfab likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:18:03 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 18:08:10 GMT @mytnice said:

Jun 24, 2017 12:38:25 GMT @zingermack said:

No. The point in having a discussion is to be reasonable. The statement to which I was replying is not a reasonable statement because it said "Democrats have no message or agenda other than to get Trump out. " when clearly thousands of pages on Dem candidate web sites show their agendas. I'm not going to repeat them all here.

Well then, in your own words, what do you think their message is? So far all that has been said by anyone responding to the original point made by devildog, is that the Democrats DO have a message, but no one has said what it is other than to restate her original point that all they can focus on is stop/get rid of Trump.

In my own words, I think their message is clearly laid out in their platform for the party nationally: s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

Raise Incomes and Restore Economic Security for the Middle Class
....................................
3
Raising Workers’ Wages
............................................................................................................................
3
Protecting Workers’ Fundamental Rights
...........................................................................................
4
Supporting Working Families
..................................................................................................................
4
Helping More Workers Share in Near-Record Corporate Profits
...............................................
5
Expanding Access to Affordable Housing and Homeownership
...............................................
5
Protecting and Expanding Social Security
.........................................................................................
5
Ensuring a Secure and Dignified Retirement
....................................................................................
6
Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service
.............................................................................................
6
Create Good-Paying Jobs
.............................................................................................................
7
Building 21st Century Infrastructure
......................................................................................................
7
Fostering a Manufacturing Renaissance
..............................................................................................
7
Creating Good-Paying Clean Energy Jobs
.........................................................................................
8
Pursuing Our Innovation Agenda: Science, Research, Education, and Technology
...........
8
Supporting America’s Small Businesses
..............................................................................................
9
Creating Jobs for America’s Young People
.......................................................................................
9
Fight for Economic Fairness and Against Inequality
...............................................................
9
Reining in Wall Street and Fixing our Financial System
..............................................................
10
Promoting Competition by Stopping Corporate Concentration
..............................................
11
Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes
........................................................................
11
Promoting Trade That is Fair and Benefits American Workers
................................................
12
Bring Americans Together and Remove Barriers to Opportunities
......................................
13
Ending Systemic Racism
.........................................................................................................................
13
Closing the Racial Wealth Gap
..............................................................................................................
13
Reforming our Criminal Justice System
............................................................................................
13
Fixing our Broken Immigration System
.............................................................................................
15
Guaranteeing Civil Rights....................................................
.................
...................................................16
Guaranteeing Women’s Rights
...............................................................................................................
17
Guaranteeing Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights
.................................................
17
Guaranteeing Rights for People with Disabilities
...........................................................................
17
Respecting Faith and Service
.................................................................................................................
17
Investing in Rural America
......................................................................................................................
18
Ending Poverty and Investing in Communities Left Behind
......................................................
18
Building Strong Cities and Metro Areas
............................................................................................
19
Promoting Arts and Culture
...................................................................................................................
19
Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations
...................................................................................................
19
Fighting for the People of Puerto Rico
..............................................................................................
21
Honoring the People of the Territories
..............................................................................................
21
Protect Voting Rights, Fix Our Campaign
Finance System, and Restore Our Democracy
........................................................................
22
Protecting Voting Rights
........................................................................................................................
22
Fixing Our Broken Campaign Finance System
..............................................................................
22
Appointing Judges
....................................................................................................................................
23
Securing Statehood for Washington, D.C
........................................................................................
23
Strengthening Management of Federal Government
..................................................................
23
Combat Climate Change, Build a Clean Energy
Economy, and Secure Environmental Justice
.........................................................................
24
Building a Clean Energy Economy
.....................................................................................................
24
Securing Environmental and Climate Justice
.................................................................................
26
Protecting Our Public Lands and Waters
........................................................................................
26
Provide Quality and Affordable Education
..............................................................................
27
Making Debt-Free College a Reality
...................................................................................................
27
Providing Relief from Crushing Student Debt
...............................................................................
28
Supporting Historically Black Colleges and
Universities and Minority-Serving Institutions
...............................................................................
28
Cracking Down on Predatory For-Profit Schools
.........................................................................
28
Guaranteeing Universal Preschool and Good Schools for Every Child
................................
29
Ensure the Health and Safety of All Americans
......................................................................
30
Securing Universal Health Care
............................................................................................................
31
Supporting Community Health Centers
............................................................................................
31
Reducing Prescription Drug Costs
.....................................................................................................
32
Enabling Cutting-Edge Medical Research
.......................................................................................
32
Combating Drug and Alcohol Addiction
..........................................................................................
32
Treating Mental Health
.............................................................................................................................
33
Supporting Those Living with Autism and their Families
..........................................................
33
Securing Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice
.....................................................................
33
Ensuring Long-Term Care, Services, and Supports
......................................................................
34
Protecting and Promoting Public Health
.........................................................................................
34
Ending Violence Against Women
.......................................................................................................
34
Preventing Gun Violence
........................................................................................................................
35
Principled Leadership
.................................................................................................................
35
Support Our Troops and Keep Faith with Our Veteran
.........................................................
36
Defense Spending
.....................................................................................................................................
36
Veterans and Service Members
............................................................................................................
36
Military Families
..........................................................................................................................................
37
A Strong Military
.........................................................................................................................................
37
Confront Global Threats
..............................................................................................................
37
Terrorism
........................................................................................................................................................
37
Syria
................................................................................................................................................................
38
Afghanistan
..................................................................................................................................................
38
Iran
..................................................................................................................................................................
38
North Korea
.................................................................................................................................................
39
Russia
.............................................................................................................................................................
39
Cybersecurity and Online Privacy
.
......................................................................................................
39
Non-Proliferation of Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Weapons
.........................................
39
Global Climate Leadership
.....................................................................................................................
40
Protect Our Values
......................................................................................................................
40
Women and Girls
........................................................................................................................................
41
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People
...........................................................................
41
Trafficking and Modern Slavery
.............................................................................................................
41
Young People
...............................................................................................................................................
41
Religious Minorities
....................................................................................................................................
41
Refugees
.......................................................................................................................................................
42
Civil Society
.................................................................................................................................................
42
Anti-Corruption
..........................................................................................................................................
42
Torture
............................................................................................................................................................
42
Closing Guantánamo Bay
.......................................................................................................................
42
Development Assistance
........................................................................................................................
42
Global Health
...............................................................................................................................................
43
HIV and AIDS
..............................................................................................................................................
43
International Labor
...................................................................................................................................
43
A Leader in the World
.................................................................................................................
43
Asia-Pacific
...................................................................................................................................................
43
Middle East
..................................................................................................................................................
44
Europe
...........................................................................................................................................................
44
Americas
.....................................................................................................................................................
t45
Africa
..............................................................................................................................................................
45
Global Economy and Institutions
........................................................................................................
45

For every other candidate, legislator, governor, etc. their messages are on their web sites.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 18:20:38 GMT by Deleted

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:21:42 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:21:42 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 16:45:17 GMT papercrafteradvocate said:

Jun 24, 2017 14:54:01 GMT @devildog said:

(Bold is mine)

Since I'm the one that made the comment, I'll add more to my original post about it:

@zingermack You link a lot of articles here, so I know you read a lot. Can you honestly say you don't read, on a daily basis, if not several times a day, the constant comments from Democrats talking about Russia, collusion, obstruction of justice, impeachment, and anything else. It's every.single.day. It is hour after hour, expert panel after expert panel, discussing and dissecting anything and everything Trump that will lead to his impeachment and possible removal from office.

Auntie Maxine bellowed Impeach 45 for months, Nancy Pelosi was the same although she did say a few months ago it was time for the Democrats to step back from that rhetoric. Every single time I saw a Democrat talking on t.v., it was how they're closer to obstruction, closer to impeachment, etc.

To be VERY clear: I'm as concerned about Russia as everybody else. I'm also concerned and want to know if Trump and anybody in his administration crossed the lines. The thing is: I don't want to hear about it every.single.day. and I've really started to tune it out.

If anybody cares to look at some of the articles @jenny2 linked, you might see a bit of what I'm referring to. I'm not making it up about the rhetoric, listen to some of your own Democratic leaders.

And contrary to what you might think papercrafteradvocate , I do want to hear all sides. Why? Because I'm not party loyal. I'm IN THE MIDDLE, and which party I vote for changes from election to election. Nothing set in stone for me.

I'm all for hearing both sides--however with the comment I made that you're quoting, that's not what is going on. I'm not suppressing anyone's actual opinions, I'm commenting that there are not any--just slams that the left is always bad and a bunch of meanies!

We're more similar--I don't always vote party, however this round, I'm definitely anti republican with the idiots who are rolling out all this terrible crap and removing protections in place for people.

I'm not suppressing anyone's actual opinions, I'm commenting that there are not any--

Well, that's an absolute lie.
The number of opinions given here from those on the Right has obviously drastically dropped, but there are still many opinions here from a few that are still here.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:25:31 GMT lucyg and crimsoncat05 like this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:25:31 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT @jenny2 said:

Jun 24, 2017 15:28:11 GMT @devildog said:

And regarding the health bill: the republicans are being a bunch of sneaky bastards with no hearings, debate, etc. And the democrats need to do more than declare babies are gonna die under the bill. And, btw, HRC recently tweeted if the bill passes the Republicans are the "Death Party." :huh:

(And I only bring up HRC's tweet because so many people here don't want to hear her brought up anymore, yet HRC herself keeps herself in the media.)

I am encouraged to have just seen centrist democrats are going to meeting with republicans next week on tax reform. If you ask me, we need more people in the middle from both parties.

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

Was the Passage of Obamacare Just as Secretive as GOP Efforts to Repeal It? FALSE - Snopes.com

"But the truth is, the ACA took months to craft, according to the New York Times, and was the subject of 79 hearings.

By contrast, the AHCA was forced through the House without a single hearing in relevant committees, no score by the Congressional Budget Office and admissions from members of the House GOP that they had not read the very bill they voted on. " mic.com/articles/176301/obamacare-had-79-committee-hearings-before-it-passed-trumpcare-had-none

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 18:26:54 GMT by Deleted

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:29:57 GMT lindas likes this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:29:57 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 18:18:03 GMT @zingermack said:

Jun 24, 2017 18:08:10 GMT @mytnice said:

Well then, in your own words, what do you think their message is? So far all that has been said by anyone responding to the original point made by devildog, is that the Democrats DO have a message, but no one has said what it is other than to restate her original point that all they can focus on is stop/get rid of Trump.

In my own words, I think their message is clearly laid out in their platform for the party nationally: s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

Raise Incomes and Restore Economic Security for the Middle Class
....................................
3
Raising Workers’ Wages
............................................................................................................................
3
Protecting Workers’ Fundamental Rights
...........................................................................................
4
Supporting Working Families
..................................................................................................................
4
Helping More Workers Share in Near-Record Corporate Profits
...............................................
5
Expanding Access to Affordable Housing and Homeownership
...............................................
5
Protecting and Expanding Social Security
.........................................................................................
5
Ensuring a Secure and Dignified Retirement
....................................................................................
6
Revitalizing Our Nation’s Postal Service
.............................................................................................
6
Create Good-Paying Jobs
.............................................................................................................
7
Building 21st Century Infrastructure
......................................................................................................
7
Fostering a Manufacturing Renaissance
..............................................................................................
7
Creating Good-Paying Clean Energy Jobs
.........................................................................................
8
Pursuing Our Innovation Agenda: Science, Research, Education, and Technology
...........
8
Supporting America’s Small Businesses
..............................................................................................
9
Creating Jobs for America’s Young People
.......................................................................................
9
Fight for Economic Fairness and Against Inequality
...............................................................
9
Reining in Wall Street and Fixing our Financial System
..............................................................
10
Promoting Competition by Stopping Corporate Concentration
..............................................
11
Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes
........................................................................
11
Promoting Trade That is Fair and Benefits American Workers
................................................
12
Bring Americans Together and Remove Barriers to Opportunities
......................................
13
Ending Systemic Racism
.........................................................................................................................
13
Closing the Racial Wealth Gap
..............................................................................................................
13
Reforming our Criminal Justice System
............................................................................................
13
Fixing our Broken Immigration System
.............................................................................................
15
Guaranteeing Civil Rights....................................................
.................
...................................................16
Guaranteeing Women’s Rights
...............................................................................................................
17
Guaranteeing Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Rights
.................................................
17
Guaranteeing Rights for People with Disabilities
...........................................................................
17
Respecting Faith and Service
.................................................................................................................
17
Investing in Rural America
......................................................................................................................
18
Ending Poverty and Investing in Communities Left Behind
......................................................
18
Building Strong Cities and Metro Areas
............................................................................................
19
Promoting Arts and Culture
...................................................................................................................
19
Honoring Indigenous Tribal Nations
...................................................................................................
19
Fighting for the People of Puerto Rico
..............................................................................................
21
Honoring the People of the Territories
..............................................................................................
21
Protect Voting Rights, Fix Our Campaign
Finance System, and Restore Our Democracy
........................................................................
22
Protecting Voting Rights
........................................................................................................................
22
Fixing Our Broken Campaign Finance System
..............................................................................
22
Appointing Judges
....................................................................................................................................
23
Securing Statehood for Washington, D.C
........................................................................................
23
Strengthening Management of Federal Government
..................................................................
23
Combat Climate Change, Build a Clean Energy
Economy, and Secure Environmental Justice
.........................................................................
24
Building a Clean Energy Economy
.....................................................................................................
24
Securing Environmental and Climate Justice
.................................................................................
26
Protecting Our Public Lands and Waters
........................................................................................
26
Provide Quality and Affordable Education
..............................................................................
27
Making Debt-Free College a Reality
...................................................................................................
27
Providing Relief from Crushing Student Debt
...............................................................................
28
Supporting Historically Black Colleges and
Universities and Minority-Serving Institutions
...............................................................................
28
Cracking Down on Predatory For-Profit Schools
.........................................................................
28
Guaranteeing Universal Preschool and Good Schools for Every Child
................................
29
Ensure the Health and Safety of All Americans
......................................................................
30
Securing Universal Health Care
............................................................................................................
31
Supporting Community Health Centers
............................................................................................
31
Reducing Prescription Drug Costs
.....................................................................................................
32
Enabling Cutting-Edge Medical Research
.......................................................................................
32
Combating Drug and Alcohol Addiction
..........................................................................................
32
Treating Mental Health
.............................................................................................................................
33
Supporting Those Living with Autism and their Families
..........................................................
33
Securing Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice
.....................................................................
33
Ensuring Long-Term Care, Services, and Supports
......................................................................
34
Protecting and Promoting Public Health
.........................................................................................
34
Ending Violence Against Women
.......................................................................................................
34
Preventing Gun Violence
........................................................................................................................
35
Principled Leadership
.................................................................................................................
35
Support Our Troops and Keep Faith with Our Veteran
.........................................................
36
Defense Spending
.....................................................................................................................................
36
Veterans and Service Members
............................................................................................................
36
Military Families
..........................................................................................................................................
37
A Strong Military
.........................................................................................................................................
37
Confront Global Threats
..............................................................................................................
37
Terrorism
........................................................................................................................................................
37
Syria
................................................................................................................................................................
38
Afghanistan
..................................................................................................................................................
38
Iran
..................................................................................................................................................................
38
North Korea
.................................................................................................................................................
39
Russia
.............................................................................................................................................................
39
Cybersecurity and Online Privacy
.
......................................................................................................
39
Non-Proliferation of Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Weapons
.........................................
39
Global Climate Leadership
.....................................................................................................................
40
Protect Our Values
......................................................................................................................
40
Women and Girls
........................................................................................................................................
41
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender People
...........................................................................
41
Trafficking and Modern Slavery
.............................................................................................................
41
Young People
...............................................................................................................................................
41
Religious Minorities
....................................................................................................................................
41
Refugees
.......................................................................................................................................................
42
Civil Society
.................................................................................................................................................
42
Anti-Corruption
..........................................................................................................................................
42
Torture
............................................................................................................................................................
42
Closing Guantánamo Bay
.......................................................................................................................
42
Development Assistance
........................................................................................................................
42
Global Health
...............................................................................................................................................
43
HIV and AIDS
..............................................................................................................................................
43
International Labor
...................................................................................................................................
43
A Leader in the World
.................................................................................................................
43
Asia-Pacific
...................................................................................................................................................
43
Middle East
..................................................................................................................................................
44
Europe
...........................................................................................................................................................
44
Americas
.....................................................................................................................................................
t45
Africa
..............................................................................................................................................................
45
Global Economy and Institutions
........................................................................................................
45

For every other candidate, legislator, governor, etc. their messages are on their web sites.

A cut and paste is your own words? :blink:

Aside from that, so they have it written down somewhere, but who of them is sharing their message? When or where are they saying something other than stop/get rid of Trump?

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:40:23 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:40:23 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 18:25:31 GMT @zingermack said:

Jun 24, 2017 16:32:18 GMT @jenny2 said:

I too don't like the secrecy. I didn't like it when the Democrats did it with Obamacare.

Was the Passage of Obamacare Just as Secretive as GOP Efforts to Repeal It? FALSE - Snopes.com

"But the truth is, the ACA took months to craft, according to the New York Times, and was the subject of 79 hearings.

By contrast, the AHCA was forced through the House without a single hearing in relevant committees, no score by the Congressional Budget Office and admissions from members of the House GOP that they had not read the very bill they voted on. " mic.com/articles/176301/obamacare-had-79-committee-hearings-before-it-passed-trumpcare-had-none

By contrast, the AHCA was forced through the House

"The Stupidity of Americans" forced Obamacare through:

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:53:46 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:53:46 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 15:05:38 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 10:37:50 GMT @jenny2 said:

Attack and run!!! (Or lack of conviction)

1) It was not an attack. I've been involved in a discussion. (mine was the 6th reply to the OP back on page 1) I'm so sorry that you think anyone posting something that differs from your opinion is an attack. That seems to be a problem with many on the left.

2) As far as the "attack and RUN" goes - I had a busy day yesterday including several phone calls, some packing, and most importantly, taking my son to a medical appointment. I offered an explanation as to why it may be several hours or more that I'd find my way back to the thread. I thought that was the decent thing. Here you are reading something else, COMPLETELY different, and yet again, assuming the absolute worst about me. That's shocking.

Talk about dramatic. Dramatic and hateful.

Gia does bring up a great point. The left has nothing else. I've seen a lot in especially the last week of even people on the left stating this opinion. I found this piece most interesting and he states many things that have been said on this board, even on this very thread that have been shot down by many on the left. (and keep in mind, Rolling Stone is not an arm of the Right)

"They're continuing, if not worsening, last year's mistake of running almost exclusively on Trump/Republican negatives. The Correct the Record types who police the Internet on the party's behalf are relentless on that score, seeming to spend most of their time denouncing people for their wrong opinions or party disloyalty. They don't seem to have anything to say to voters in flyover country, except to point out that they're (at best) dupes for falling for Republican rhetoric.

But "Republicans are bad" isn't a message or a plan, which is why the Democrats have managed the near impossible: losing ground overall during the singular catastrophe of the Trump presidency."

www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-democrats-need-a-new-message-w484569

1. You do attack. You can't defend and you won't condemn the actions of trump and the Republicans so you attack. You go on about how you are treated as the enemy because your views aren't the "accepted" ones. You make off the wall comments as gotchas when there is more to it then what your implying. And there are those ridiculous comparisons. I can understand not defending trump and to a certain degree not condemning the actions of the Republicans because in one sense it goes against your ideology. But the attacks are tiresome and serve no purpose except to cause folks to become testy and to deflect from the topic at hand. My thinking is if you don't agree and can't or won't defend the the actions of the topic sit it out.

2. Lack conviction. I asked, in general, for a list of positive things trump and the Republicans have done or plan on doing. You said you know of 5 but won't share them. My thinking is if it was me and I believe in then I would share them and shrug off the naysayers. Which makes me think you lack conviction or are a wimp.

3. Run. You do and I think it's kind of funny. You fire off this long post and then announce you won't be around to respond to anybody because of whatever reason. I find myself thinking who cares. You'll either be around or you won't. That is the nature of a place like this. People drift in and out throughout the day. No announcements necessary.

4. Republicans are bad. Well can you defend their current agenda? The way I see it (notice not afraid to offer what I know will be an unpopular opinion with some) the main difference between the Democrats and a Republicans is their version of a health care bill. The Democrats came up with the ACA to help all Americans to actually obtain health care insurance. The Republicans reason for a repeal and replace of the ACA is to clear the way for massive tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. If you disagree with my assessment please feel free to show me the error of my thinking.

You go on about how you are treated as the enemy because your views aren't the "accepted" ones.

It's been made very clear by MANY here.

Lack conviction. I asked, in general, for a list of positive things trump and the Republicans have done or plan on doing. You said you know of 5 but won't share them.

You've done that several times in the past. I guess you lack conviction. :smirk:

You fire off this long post and then announce you won't be around to respond to anybody because of whatever reason.

Many on "your side" have done this many times and it was never a problem. Now it's only a problem in order to use it against someone you disagree with for some odd reason.

The way I see it (notice not afraid to offer what I know will be an unpopular opinion with some)

You know though, that it will be very popular with the majority here. So, big damn deal. It's not the big brave action you're proclaiming it to be.

The Democrats came up with the ACA to help all Americans to actually obtain health care insurance.

So they have health INSURANCE, but because of Obamacare they can't afford health CARE. Yay Democrats? :blink:

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 19:00:22 GMT by Deleted

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 18:56:30 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 18:56:30 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 8:47:28 GMT @mytnice said:

Jun 22, 2017 22:53:41 GMT Merge said:

Yeah, you can see that with Pelosi's "we have to pass it so you can see what's in it" quote, too.

Can you point out what else she said that negates her statement that "we have to pass it to see what's in it"? I've never been clear on that.

I guess not.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 19:01:34 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 19:01:34 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 8:53:43 GMT @mytnice said:

Jun 23, 2017 12:43:02 GMT Merge said:

You have to ask if people earning almost twice as much as they would under a $7.75 wage are better off?

I get your point about the higher cost of living, but don't think it's relevant to the argument. Better is better, even when it's not enough.

When the waterline raises for everyone, then won't those who are still making minimum wage still be in the same boat? How is "not enough" better just because it's a higher level of "not enough"?

I really would like to know.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 19:04:48 GMT pierogi, crimsoncat05, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 19:04:48 GMT

I listed some of the things President Obama did in rolling out the ACA.

So instead of this.. From David Fahrenthold -Washington Post

"Friend of friend passes on this photo of @realdonaldtrump in golfing attire today at his club in Northern Va."

How about he spends his time actually finding out what is in both the House and Senate version of the bill, tell Congress specifically what he wants in the final version and then schedule town hall meetings to answer the American People's questions about this bill?

You know acting like a real president that gives a shit.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 19:07:30 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 19:07:30 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 18:40:23 GMT @mytnice said:

Jun 24, 2017 18:25:31 GMT @zingermack said:

Was the Passage of Obamacare Just as Secretive as GOP Efforts to Repeal It? FALSE - Snopes.com

"But the truth is, the ACA took months to craft, according to the New York Times, and was the subject of 79 hearings.

By contrast, the AHCA was forced through the House without a single hearing in relevant committees, no score by the Congressional Budget Office and admissions from members of the House GOP that they had not read the very bill they voted on. " mic.com/articles/176301/obamacare-had-79-committee-hearings-before-it-passed-trumpcare-had-none

By contrast, the AHCA was forced through the House

"The Stupidity of Americans" forced Obamacare through:

There is a certain amount of truth in that statement about the American Voter. I'm beginning to believe there is a large segment of Americans who "can't handle the truth".

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 19:47:53 GMT papercrafteradvocate likes this

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 19:47:53 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 18:53:46 GMT @mytnice said:

Jun 24, 2017 15:05:38 GMT @fred said:

1. You do attack. You can't defend and you won't condemn the actions of trump and the Republicans so you attack. You go on about how you are treated as the enemy because your views aren't the "accepted" ones. You make off the wall comments as gotchas when there is more to it then what your implying. And there are those ridiculous comparisons. I can understand not defending trump and to a certain degree not condemning the actions of the Republicans because in one sense it goes against your ideology. But the attacks are tiresome and serve no purpose except to cause folks to become testy and to deflect from the topic at hand. My thinking is if you don't agree and can't or won't defend the the actions of the topic sit it out.

2. Lack conviction. I asked, in general, for a list of positive things trump and the Republicans have done or plan on doing. You said you know of 5 but won't share them. My thinking is if it was me and I believe in then I would share them and shrug off the naysayers. Which makes me think you lack conviction or are a wimp.

3. Run. You do and I think it's kind of funny. You fire off this long post and then announce you won't be around to respond to anybody because of whatever reason. I find myself thinking who cares. You'll either be around or you won't. That is the nature of a place like this. People drift in and out throughout the day. No announcements necessary.

4. Republicans are bad. Well can you defend their current agenda? The way I see it (notice not afraid to offer what I know will be an unpopular opinion with some) the main difference between the Democrats and a Republicans is their version of a health care bill. The Democrats came up with the ACA to help all Americans to actually obtain health care insurance. The Republicans reason for a repeal and replace of the ACA is to clear the way for massive tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. If you disagree with my assessment please feel free to show me the error of my thinking.

You go on about how you are treated as the enemy because your views aren't the "accepted" ones.

It's been made very clear by MANY here. - In your world only.

Lack conviction. I asked, in general, for a list of positive things trump and the Republicans have done or plan on doing. You said you know of 5 but won't share them.

You've done that several times in the past. I guess you lack conviction. :smirk:

Not true because I have been looking. Now someone may have said something positive about what trump and the GOP have done but I don't read every post on every thread. And when I specifically asked the question no one answered or pointed me to where these little gems of positivity were.

You fire off this long post and then announce you won't be around to respond to anybody because of whatever reason.

Many on "your side" have done this many times and it was never a problem. Now it's only a problem in order to use it against someone you disagree with for some odd reason. I really have no idea what you mean with what I assume is a valid point. Thought about and decided I didn't care.

The way I see it (notice not afraid to offer what I know will be an unpopular opinion with some)

You know though, that it will be very popular with the majority here. So, big damn deal. It's not the big brave action you're proclaiming it to be. So skippy why don't you point out the error of my thinking? The point being there are some who will disagree with what I said and that's ok because I'm going to voice my opinion just like I did during the IRS thing, Benghazi and other events and got slapped around pretty good for it. I don't lack any conviction for the opinions I voice. And I have an opinion for just about everything. And don't confuse "opinion" with your "comparisons " as they really are different.

The Democrats came up with the ACA to help all Americans to actually obtain health care insurance.

So they have health INSURANCE, but because of Obamacare they can't afford health CARE. Yay Democrats? :blink:

And how many people were actually able to get insurance for the first time in a long time or the first time ever? There is no question there are problems that popped up with the ACA and one being making more avenues available to those that got socked with higher premiums to get help with these increases. Given the opportunity the Democrats would have tried to fix it.

Now the Republicans have specifically made the decision not to find these additional avenues and to remove others for those who can least afford it. The poor, the sick, and the elderly not yet eligible for Medicare. Yay Republicans!

There was this older woman at my first job on the brokerage side of insurance. I was still pretty young at the time. She was one of the most disagreeable people that I had ever run into. It just wasn't me who felt that way. Most of the people in the office felt that way but because she didn't have direct contact with our clients and she was good at her job they kept her around. I would watch her and think I don't want to be like her when I get old. I read your posts and find you remind me a lot of her.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 20:18:29 GMT

Quote

Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 20:18:29 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 19:47:53 GMT @fred said:

Jun 24, 2017 18:53:46 GMT @mytnice said:

It's been made very clear by MANY here. - In your world only.

You've done that several times in the past. I guess you lack conviction. :smirk:

Not true because I have been looking. Now someone may have said something positive about what trump and the GOP have done but I don't read every post on every thread. And when I specifically asked the question no one answered or pointed me to where these little gems of positivity were.

Many on "your side" have done this many times and it was never a problem. Now it's only a problem in order to use it against someone you disagree with for some odd reason. I really have no idea what you mean with what I assume is a valid point. Thought about and decided I didn't care.

You know though, that it will be very popular with the majority here. So, big damn deal. It's not the big brave action you're proclaiming it to be. So skippy why don't you point out the error of my thinking? The point being there are some who will disagree with what I said and that's ok because I'm going to voice my opinion just like I did during the IRS thing, Benghazi and other events and got slapped around pretty good for it. I don't lack any conviction for the opinions I voice. And I have an opinion for just about everything. And don't confuse "opinion" with your "comparisons " as they really are different.

So they have health INSURANCE, but because of Obamacare they can't afford health CARE. Yay Democrats? :blink:

And how many people were actually able to get insurance for the first time in a long time or the first time ever? There is no question there are problems that popped up with the ACA and one being making more avenues available to those that got socked with higher premiums to get help with these increases. Given the opportunity the Democrats would have tried to fix it.

Now the Republicans have specifically made the decision not to find these additional avenues and to remove others for those who can least afford it. The poor, the sick, and the elderly not yet eligible for Medicare. Yay Republicans!

There was this older woman at my first job on the brokerage side of insurance. I was still pretty young at the time. She was one of the most disagreeable people that I had ever run into. It just wasn't me who felt that way. Most of the people in the office felt that way but because she didn't have direct contact with our clients and she was good at her job they kept her around. I would watch her and think I don't want to be like her when I get old. I read your posts and find you remind me a lot of her.

In your world only.

You can keep repeating that, but it doesn't make it true.
It's habitual and acceptable by the majority here. Evidenced by the lack of those on the Right participating or leaving here altogether. Hell, it's in this very thread, but keep denying it, it really boosts your credibility. :rolleyes:

Not true because I have been looking. Now someone may have said something positive about what trump and the GOP have done but I don't read every post on every thread. And when I specifically asked the question no one answered or pointed me to where these little gems of positivity were.

Oh yes, it's very true. I'm talking about YOU saying you can answer but you won't. You have done that several times and according to your rules, that means you lack conviction.

I really have no idea what you mean with what I assume is a valid point. Thought about and decided I didn't care.

Yes, you don't care unless you can use it to discredit someone you disagree with. That's the point.

So skippy why don't you point out the error of my thinking?

I did, Skippy.

And how many people were actually able to get insurance for the first time in a long time or the first time ever? There is no question there are problems that popped up with the ACA and one being making more avenues available to those that got socked with higher premiums to get help with these increases. Given the opportunity the Democrats would have tried to fix it.

Big damn deal. It's meaningless when all Obamacare did was switch who could now get health CARE and who now can't, while you pat the Democrats on the back like it's some meaningful accomplishment. :blink:

There was this older woman at my first job on the brokerage side of insurance. I was still pretty young at the time. She was one of the most disagreeable people that I had ever run into. It just wasn't me who felt that way. Most of the people in the office felt that way but because she didn't have direct contact with our clients and she was good at her job they kept her around. I would watch her and think I don't want to be like her when I get old. I read your posts and find you remind me a lot of her.

Just another longwinded way to discredit a differing viewpoint. Typical.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2017 20:25:06 GMT by Deleted

iamkristinl16 Eternal Pea Posts: 20,461 Jun 25, 2014 23:13:57 GMT	Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 22:34:22 GMT via Tapatalk pierogi likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 24, 2017 22:34:22 GMT Wasn't it Handel who doesn't believe in same sex marriage or adoption by same sex couples?
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papercrafteradvocate Persistent Pea Posts: 19,024 Jun 26, 2014 10:23:50 GMT	Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 22:39:28 GMT via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 24, 2017 22:39:28 GMT Jun 24, 2017 22:34:22 GMT iamkristinl16 said: Wasn't it Handel who doesn't believe in same sex marriage or adoption by same sex couples? She's right behind Pence on that.

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 22:49:01 GMT via Tapatalk

Quote

Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 24, 2017 22:49:01 GMT

From Karen Handel's platform (she pretty much is a mini-me-Trump, with the exception of Medicaid)

"Abortion
I am Pro-life and believe that life begins at conception. We have made significant strides in fostering a Pro-life culture. Still, more must be done. I am proud to be the only candidate in this race to be endorsed by Susan B. Anthony List, and I am also certified by the Georgia Life Alliance."

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Posts: 19,024

Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 24, 2017 22:54:39 GMT via Tapatalk

Quote

Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 24, 2017 22:54:39 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 22:34:22 GMT iamkristinl16 said:

Wasn't it Handel who doesn't believe in same sex marriage or adoption by same sex couples?

Here you go...

Straight from her--

"Handel opposes same-sex marriage and same-sex civil unions.

She has voted against legislation that would give domestic partner benefits.

She opposes the adoption of children by gay individuals, stating that it "is not the best household for a child."

lucyg
Eternal Pea

After all this time? Always.

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Location: wine country

Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 25, 2017 1:21:52 GMT pierogi likes this

Quote

Post by lucyg on Jun 25, 2017 1:21:52 GMT

Jun 24, 2017 22:34:22 GMT iamkristinl16 said:

Wasn't it Handel who doesn't believe in same sex marriage or adoption by same sex couples?

She's the one who practically blew up Susan G. Komen by separating them from Planned Parenthood. She ended up having to leave SGK shortly thereafter and they tried to undo the damage, but I don't know if they ever fully recovered.

Remember, the only lives that truly matter are the unborn ones. :crazy:

ETA: LA Times update on Komen/Handel/PP fiasco here

Last Edit: Jun 25, 2017 3:50:15 GMT by lucyg

LUCYG
Northern California

MoreCowbell says I’m a racist … hmm … 9/10/23

"The old Two Peas forum was American, but this one was set up by a Brit, as no one else could be arsed."
--anniebygaslight 5/2/18

"Reality has a liberal bias, I guess." --pierogi 7/9/18

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Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6 Jun 25, 2017 4:01:33 GMT lucyg, papercrafteradvocate, and 3 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 4:01:33 GMT

Does the minimum wage kill employment?

Not according to these studies.

And there are always ways to index the minimum wage to profits if we need to to help small businesses. For example, it could be based on a wage to profit ratio. The higher the ratio, the smaller the minimum wage for your business. There's a lot of ways to make this work if we want it.

Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube and Michael Reich, Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment? Accounting for Heterogeneity and Selectivity in State Panel Data, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, Univ. of CA, Berkeley, June 21, 2010.
Published by Industrial Relations, April 2011.

Anne Thompson, What Is Causing Record-High Teen Unemployment? Range of Economic Factors Drives High Teen Unemployment, But Minimum Wage Not One of Them, National Employment Law Project, October 2011.

Sylvia Allegretto, Arindrajit Dube, Michael Reich and Ben Zipperer, Credible Research Designs for Minimum Wage Studies, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, IRLE Working Paper No. 148-13, 2013

John Schmidt, Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?, (Important overview of years of research), Center for Economic and Policy Research, February 2013.

Michael Reich, Ken Jacobs and Miranda Dietz (eds.), When Mandates Work: Raising Labor Standards at the Local Level (Berkeley CA: University of California Press) 2014.

Michael Reich, The Troubling Fine Print In The Claim That Raising The Minimum Wage Will Cost Jobs, (Response to CBO report), Think Progress, February 19, 2014.

Michael Reich, No, a Minimum-Wage Boost Won’t Kill Jobs, (Response to CBO report), Politico, February 21. 2014.

Michael Reich, Ken Jacobs and Annette Bernhardt, Local Minimum Wage Laws: Impacts on Workers, Families and Businesses, Institute for Research on Labor and Employment, IRLE Working Paper No. 104-14, March 2014.

Dale Belman and Paul J. Wolfson, The New Minimum Wage Research, W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, Employment Research 21:2, 2014.

Dale Belman and Paul J. Wolfson, What Does the Minimum Wage Do?, W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, (book) 2014.

Center for Economic and Policy Research, States That Raised Their MinimumWage in 2014 Had Stronger Job Growth Than Those That Didn't, April 2014.

Center for Economic and Policy Research, Update on the Thirteen States that Raised their Minimum Wage, August 2014.

Daniel Kuehn, The Importance of Study Design in the Minimum Wage Debate, Economic Policy Institute, September 2014.

Justin Wolfers and Jan Zilinsky, Higher Wages for Low-Income Workers Lead to Higher Productivity, Peterson Institute for International Economics, January 13, 2015.

Peterson Institute for International Economics, Raising Lower-Level Wages: When and Why it Makes Economic Sense, April 2015.

David Cooper, Lawrence Mishel and John Schmit, We Can Afford a $12.00 Federal Minimum Wage in 2020, Economic Policy Institute, April 2015.

National Employment Law Project, City Minimum Wage Laws: Recent Trends and Economic Evidence, Updated May 2015.

Alan Stonecipher and Ben Wilcox, Minimum Wage Policy and the Resulting Effect on Employment, Integrity Florida, July 20, 2015

Paul J. Wolfson and Dale Belman, 15 Years Of Research on U.S. Employment and the Minimum Wage, Tuck School of Business Working Paper No. 2705499, December 2015

National Employment Law Project, Raise Wages, Kill Jobs? Seven Decades of Historical Data Find No Correlation Between Minimum Wage Increases and Employment Levels, May 2016

For example:

"At the beginning of 2014, thirteen states increased their minimum wage. Of these thirteen states, four passed legislation raising the minimum wage (Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, and Rhode Island). In the other nine, the minimum wage automatically increased in line with inflation at the beginning of the year (Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington state).

Last month, CEPR looked at state-by-state employment growth in the first two months of 2014, highlighting these 13 minimum wage-raising states for easy comparison. Using new employment data from the BLS, we can now update these figures with data from the month of March.

Below, the chart shows the percentage change in employment for each state. The baseline is the average of the October, November, and December 2013 employment figures, which were measured against the average employment level for 2014 (January, February, and March). Overall, the findings are even more positive than last month’s employment figures. We see, again, little to no evidence for the claim that raising the minimum wage threatens job creation efforts.

Of the 13 states that increased their minimum wage in early 2014, all but 2 have seen a gain in employment since, and half of the 10 fastest-growing states by employment were among this group of minimum wage raisers. Interestingly, 10 of these 13 states were above the median level of employment change over this period. The average change in employment for the 13 states that increased their minimum wage was +0.61%, while for the remaining states (all of which did not change their minimum wage) the average employment change was +0.27%."

Last Edit: Jun 25, 2017 4:03:07 GMT by Deleted

Handel defeats Ossoff in GA-6

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