Question: is anyone really looking for civil discourse?

Nope, not me. I'm tired of being told I'm a crappy person because I happen to be conservative.

 I feel comfortable saying many peas around her think Trump supporters are crappy people, but not all conservatives are crappy people.  Just like all squares are rectangles  but not all rectangles are squares - most of us can make that distinction.  Trump supporters may be conservative, but not all conservatives are Trump supporters.  

I think there are several conservative peas around here that are not Trump supporters, aren't there?  


Is it is impossible for me to separate Trump supporters from the lowest common demoniator though.  I honestly don't understand how anyone can support a man that has proven to be a mysoginist, a racist and a general all purpose liar who is only out for himself and his best interest.  

I'm under heavy stress and I haven't slept.

I'm going to kindly leave that open invitation on the table just as it was presented and walk away. Y'all may have as many last words as you desire.

I, too, have pretty much left the fray. The "Trump is Deplorable" thread the other day may have finally be the last straw for me. I, quite frankly, feel that this forum has descended to the point where it is nearly as ugly (as far as the political posts) as the old blog which everyone condemned. I have always tried to be respectful and polite, but quite honestly I wrote a number of hot responses to that Trump is Deplorable thread telling some of you just how I felt. (Fortunately I waited for a cooler head to arrive and didn't post them). At least one Pea whom I have known for years and loved used language that made it clear that simply because I am a conservative, I am pond scum in her opinion. That actually hurt. I do not defend Trump the man. But I DO support some of his policies as they are the policies I have supported all my life. That does not make me a monster. Or at least it never did before in the history of this nation. What has made us great has been that we DO differ and can bring our differences to the table and discuss them. But there is no discussion on this forum anymore. None. It is night and day a "Trump is a monster, he has tiny hands (WHO CARES?), he is a "cheeto" and anyone who sees any good in him (or Melania, or Barron, or Ivanka or ANYBODY with the last name Trump) should be taken out forthwith and hung without trial.

There are a few liberal Peas left whom I respect. After the Trump Deplorable thread I sat and tried to think of what liberals I would be willing to trust with an honest discussion. All I could come up with at that moment was melanell. I KNOW there are others, but they don't seem to post anymore. Maybe they themselves are afraid to try to be the voice of reason for fear they will also be labeled as homophobic, misogynistic, racist and all the other labels that get thrown around here with such enthusiasm.

Fortunately, it isn't that way everywhere. There are many, many liberals who DO try to listen, are willing to admit there are two sides to any discussion and who don't spend their lives spewing hatred to those who see things differently. I'm glad to know a few. My own very liberal daughter-in-law teaches political science at a university. Her degree is in diplomacy with a Mid-East emphasis and she is very pro-Mid East. She and I differ on almost everything political, but we love each other and are able to have great discussions without a single vile name being tossed into the discussion.

I'm glad to see you posting again, Burningfeather.

That couldn't be farther from the truth for me. I have good friends, who I admire and respect a great deal, that are conservative and not Trump supporters. And I respect people who voted for Trump and now openly condemn his actions. They voted hoping he would tone things down once he became president, and now realize just how destructive he is.

When I am critical of Trump and his supporters, I always make a point to say those who continue to support him.

You bring up an interesting topic to discuss. Who is to blame for Trump? so much has contributed to creating the monster that is our president. Democrats ignoring the working class, people feeling like the level of political correctness has gone too far, Bernie supporters not jumping on the Hillary bandwagon, Republican Party not handle candidate Trump earlier in the campaign. I don't know if there really is one group of people to blame.

Zing, that was a very good post, and I think if there were more liberal posts like it, you would see many more conservatives posting here. But--be honest--you know that is not how it is. Any conservative who tries to argues a point is almost immediately crucified. Look what happened just yesterday with the two "new" conservative posters (ricky and ilovetocolor). Sure, they clearly aren't "new" posters. But why should we care? Their posts were generally respectful and made good points. But rather than address the post, they were immediately called out and it was determined by the "mob" that they were old conservatives coming back under a new name. Ilovetocolor was without any proof determined to be Lauren (and I can tell you categorically that it was NOT Lauren, but what fun the mob had stating without question that it was her).  

First--so what if an old conservative comes back? I'd think the board would be glad to have that happen. Maybe, just maybe, there could be some positive discussion on politics instead of the current rather nasty echo chamber. 

I can tell you, if there were more posts like the one you just made, I'd feel comfortable discussing again. But I don't. I'm simply not interested in being called names and shoved into a corner where I do not fit at all.

We have reached a point where I fear there will be no going back. And Im not just talking about this message board. When the president of the United States is calling people names, how do we come back from that? There is no civility. I don't know how we get back to some level of decorum.

Civil discourse is great. Debate is great.

But you have to understand that many people are not interested in actual debate about political things. Not because people aren't able to speak politely - but because you have one side of the debate that is frequently unwilling to accept any sort of evidence the other side might bring up. You get arguments like:

There seem to be a lot of unexplained ties between Russia and the Trump campaign. Perhaps we should look into this, and take steps to avoid it in the future. The other side responds: "FAKE NEWS! WHY ARE YOU GETTING THIS CRAP FROM THE MSM? NO TIES, IT'S ALL A NOTHINGBURGER!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The ACA could be improved - but taking insurance away from millions of people without coming up with a viable plan isn't a good idea, as it would hurt those people and cause hardship to many Americans. "STOP LISTENING TO CNN!!!! THE CBO SCORE IS JUST MADE UP LIES. HILLARY HAD E-MAILS! MAGA!!!"

I'm concerned about global climate change, and we should probably consider the possibility that we may be causing this and it could cause major upheaval in the food supply, as well as areas where people won't be able to live in the future. "FAKE!!! DON'T TRUST THE SCIENTISTS, THEY ARE JUST LIBERAL SHILLS PAID BY SOROS!!!! ONLY TRUMP KNOWS THE TRUTH!!!"

That is not debate. That is not discourse. There is no way to discuss issues with someone who dismisses all evidence and facts as being 'fake news' or 'Soros-funded shills.' Someone who believes that Sandy Hook and Pizzagate are real but that the Russia investigation and climate change are just crazy globalist conspiracies isn't worth debating with - it's a waste of time.

My husband hasn't talked to his mother in over a month because she's drunk the Trump-Ade and believes every word that comes out of his mouth. She believes FOX that "history isn't taught in schools anymore" - and when my husband, who has been a social studies/history teacher for 10+ years asked her exactly what she thought he's been doing the past decade, she chose to believe the right-wing media over her own son. There's no discourse with people like that, because they don't care to understand or debate anything. He used to call her weekly, but she went from showing interest in his and the grandchildren's lives to someone who just wanted to give him lectures about how great Trump is and how much he's trying to work but "the Democrats are getting in his way." He finally asked if there was anything she wanted to talk about beside Trump and it turns out she doesn't really care to talk with him about anything else. As a certain person would tweet, SAD.