Question: is anyone really looking for civil discourse?

I'm not disputing that imsirius. The trouble is that they are also painting every single person who disagrees with them as racist, homophobic, etc. etc.

I've never in my life called any of you snowflakes. Or whiners. I don't see you that way at all. You are worried about this president. SO AM I!!! Do I support Donald Trump as a person? Absolutely not. However, I do not think the sky is falling like some of you do. I wish with all my heart that he had even a tenth of the class Obama had. I do. But, that said, I am a conservative and I have conservative values. That will not change even with the less than stellar presence of a Donald Trump personage. And those values do not make me racist, homophobic and all the rest of the ugly words thrown with such glee at people like me. 

Nobody has outright called you a racist. Or any conservative.

They are saying " if you support a president who is racist, WITHOUT CALLING HIM OUT, then that makes it seem you agree with his line of thinking.

If you approve of Trump and don't put him to take on things he does that are inappropriate, then one assumes you agree and feel the same.

I have not seen many of the long time conservatives denounce Trumps activities or statements here. It's always "well Obama did that, or Hillary did this" even within the last few days after Charlottesville! Blaming a former president for Trump's shortcomings instead of calling Trump out makes it seem like you agree with him tenfold.

snowsilver I feel like most here are telling you that they respect someone with conservative values but can no longer respect people who still support Trump 8 months in to his administration. I guess it confuses me why some of you seem to feel as disheartened as the liberals about the current state of the nation, but are so angered by our outrage. We see most of what we despise about him as non-partisan issues. Just issues of human decency.

I think many of us recognize that the old GOP does not align with Trump. At least I do. And there have been many times on this board that liberals have expressed empathy for those in the GOP who feel they've been stripped of the party they loved and championed. I would be heartbroken.

That's not to say some super unfortunate broad brush strokes haven't been made...but those happen on both sides.

I really wish there was more room for civility, but I'm sorry...I do feel that in that same space, there has to be room for the outrage about what Trump is doing to our country. If we agree there, that's the place we should start from.

I really do feel badly for anti-Trump Republicans. I feel badly for them personally and I feel concerned about the division in the party and what it means for the nation.

imsirus, I am about to quit posting here as it has gone about like I expected and gotten personal which just doesn't work for me. But your post deserves a response and I appreciate the way you worded it. 

In some ways you are right--I personally haven't been called any of the liberal mantra words because I did not vote for Trump. I do agree that many of those words are aimed at Trump voters. But many, many of my close friends DID vote for him and :gasp: still support him. They are not racists, they are not homophobic (couple of them are), they are not misogynist. They are good, hard-working people who give liberally of their time and money to help others. They are good neighbors and kind-hearted. They just happen to see things differently than you and other liberals do. Do they like the persona of the president? Heck, no! But they feel change was needed in the way the country was going--and like an earlier poster said (might have been Lefty--can't remember for sure) Trump was the choice that was handed to us!

You don't see many conservatives here posting about things Trump does that are inappropriate because the verbiage used against people like us has disgusted many of us so much that we basically have said, "what's the use" and we rarely even try. I tried this time--and except for you and a couple others, it's pretty been about what I expected. Personal slurs and denigration of anything I have said rather than any attempt to discuss it. I do thank you for the courteous comments and what I, at least, perceive to be an effort to engage.

Well, darn just as I was about to give up and hang it up, there comes a post like this. Thank you. You are right--many of us are so very unhappy with the face that represents us. He is far, far, FAR from what I (or most of the conservatives I know) wanted. But he was what was handed to us. So we were left with three choices: Vote Trump, Vote Hillary or don't vote.

I could NOT vote for Hillary. It had little to do with the emails although I think many of you are far to quick to negate them. It was more her moral character and the fact that I am a CONSERVATIVE and I strongly align with conservative values. So how could I honestly vote for a person who stood for what I believe is wrong for our country. So that took Hillary out of the running for me. I tried--how I tried--to hold my nose and vote for Trump. But in the end, I could not. So for probably the first time in my adult life, I didn't vote. How odd that seemed to a political animal like me! We were in a no-win position which none of you seem to understand. You seem to think we should have voted Hillary and walked all over our deeply held convictions. Well I couldn't do it. So I didn't vote.

I agree. It always baffles me how someone can say the things that they say but stop short of owning who they are. I don't think civil discourse regarding ones politics is possible online. Certainly other topics aren't so polarizing but it's really hard to talk fluff with people who I know share beliefs that are dangerous to me and people who look like me. Also there will always be a tendency to say things you wouldn't normally say but for anonymity. Ive also found that people who use message boards in the way that the most vocal peas do...well there is a reason their social needs are met by this type of interaction. *shrugs*

So lynlam left.  That's too bad.  And yes I mean it.   lynlam was the first pea I interacted with on this board.  I had been on the board, mostly in the scrapbooking part, left for a couple of years, came back and started hanging out on the NSBR board.  

It was just about the time the Tea Party was born.  lynlam was all excited because she took a bus to D.C. For a big rally.  Not knowing what the Tea Party was I asked her and she answered all my questions.  During the time since that enthusiasm turned to a bitterness IMO.

But she was not alone.  IMO those of us that have been talking Politics on this board since the Tea Party time have more of a hardness about us.  Less forgiving.  

I remember that after my exchange with lynlam I thought this could be fun so I threw myself into the fray.  I was doing my best to hold up the liberal point of view.  Man did I get slapped around.  My feelings were hurt sooo many times I was wondering how thin of a skin did I have.  Was I that much of a wimp that if someone disagreed with me I went off to wimper in the corner.  Then I showed one of the responses to a co-worker/political buddy.  He read it and then asked me why was on a board with those "mean girls."

My friend had a point.  On one hand if my feelings were always getting hurt why stay.  But on the other hand IRL I would never have the opportunity "to meet" folks like lynlam and all the others I have met during the years.  Nor would I be "forced" to research all the things that I have so I could hold up the liberal point of view.  Both I actually like.  So I toughen up and sarcasm became my shield against stinging replies.

lynlam and I never agreed on anything.  Well we did agree on horses.  She has them and I love them.  But before she got so bitter I actually learned things from her comments.  

I read this last article lynlam posted "Binary thinking is killing us ".   Her comment about the article was "Hit the nail on the head".  IMO there is a certain truth in what this guy is saying and lynlam is a prime example of binary thinking.

And it's not just lynlam, I think we are all guilty of some form of binary thinking. And that is why we very rarely talk about actual issues or conservative vs liberal beliefs on this board.  We talk about the scandals and personalities of our politicians but rarely discuss actual issues.  I think the reason is that when one talks about issues it slips into ideology and ideology often equals beliefs and I have learned folks don't necessary like others "scratching" or "digging" at their beliefs.  

Several on this thread have said they would love to talk about issues.  I would as well.  But I also know that when one voices their opinion about an issue it could be challenged by others.  That is part of what happens when one has a discussion.   And there are those who say they like that but they really don't so IMO that is why we rarely have real discussions about issues.  

Yes I know I just walked into the "I'm being silenced because I don't have the accepted view" scenario.  To that I will say look at what is being said and in  what context.  It does not pass the "discussion" test.   In other words there is no attempt by some to have a real discussion. 

So while some may  see lynlam leaving as "good riddance to bad rubbish" I look at it along with others who have left the board as a sad sign of the times that is a reflection of what is happening in the country.  That we are too rigid in our beliefs and not open to change.   To quote president tiny hands "sad". 

Yes I will continue to show disrespect for trump for this very simple reason.  He shows absolutely no respect for the American People.  He is bringing disgrace to the Office of the President. As such he will get no respect from me until he earns it.  This country deserves better than trump.   And we will continue to have fools like trump in office until we learn  to talk to each other and not past each other. 

I did not agree with much of what lynlam said but that didn't mean I wasn't willing to try and find some common ground with her beside horses.  And I feel that way about anyone who has beliefs different from mine.  Maybe that is why I like the word "compromise" so much. 

No. Just the ones who say things like "I believe marriage equality should be illegal." Or "the confederate flag is about heritage and if it reminds people of lynchings and KKK violence, that's too bad." Or "Black Lives Matter are thugs who should be arrested." Or the ever-popular "I don't think there should be a Black History Month because there is no white history month." Or "We should bring back daily Christian prayers in public school."

I feel perfectly comfortable calling those people homophobic, racist, xenophobic, fascist, dangerous zealots, whatever. If the boot fits...

When there are conservative opinions expressed which are different to my own AND which do not advance a racist/homophobic/antisemitic/whatever other evil point of view, then there is no need to and I don't.

Bwhahahaha!  You opposed HER moral character but voted for Trump.  Because his moral character is so much better! WTF!  Just take your one sided short memory and go.

It's funny that you use that as an example, as I vividly remember a post right after the election when someone posted about safe rooms and counseling for children after the election. I waded into that cesspool to point out that this election was unprecedented in the level of vitriol and if children needed a place to process who the hell cared (or something to that effect - if someone wants to try and dig up the old thread go for it) and I wasn't the only "conservative" pea who took issue with some of the ugliness.  I think people remember the vitriol a lot more than the calming voices.

I disagree with the common mantra that conservatives were special snowflakes who couldn't handle the mean liberals (although I'm sure there were some). I don't have as long of a history on the boards as many, but was around during the previous election cycle.  There's ALWAYS been vitriol on both sides.  But in MY opinion, it was a handful of posters who were ugly - and their contributions were predictable - so one could easily just cruise right by the ugliness and there was a lot of other discussion going on that was interesting and/or educational.  I rarely participate in the political threads not because I think someone is going to call me a racist or other personal insult, that stuff really just rolls right off me. It's because there's so little real discussion. If one tries and engage, it quickly deteriorates - which just makes it uninteresting.  Which is sad, I still remember  an awesome discussion a few years ago about gun control where multiple people with different view points were having an extremely interesting discussion citing statistics, studies and yes personal experiences, but all in trying to build understanding and perhaps learning something.  Did someone at some point wade in and post something inflammatory - probably - but there were enough other people having a reasonable discussion - AND we just all ignored the "troll" that it didn't derail the discussion.    

You're right, I completely checked out after your moral character comment. I didn't "demand" anything but I do stand by my comment. And with that, my conversation with you is over.

I get it snowsilver. And again, I'm sorry. What's happened is bad for our country and bad for your party. I hope the GOP will take it back. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening any time soon because I don't see the GOP leadership expressing the kind of outrage they should be expressing.

If I'm being honest, I would say that anyone who supports Trump and feels that his leadership and the decisions he is making are good for our country, then this is not the place they should be if they are seeking discussion and/or vindication. It's just not going to happen at this point. That will need to be found in a different forum on a different website. The make up of this forum just doesn't allow for it anymore.

And for folks like you who are frustrated and feel you've been robbed of your party, I just don't know...I really don't. I imagine it would get incredibly old and tiresome to be associated with the Trump presidency because you're a Republican and have conservative values and views. But it's just...it's where we're at. He won the GOP nomination and the presidency as a Republican.

I don't know where you take solace. I don't know where you find peace. But maybe it's not on this particular message board on the political threads. I would imagine that it would not be helpful to see many of us railing against him in anger all the dang day long! Because as long as he's providing us reasons to, we're going to be railing against him in anger all the dang day long. We don't feel we have any choice.

Hugs.

Trying again - no clue what happened to my initial post but I can't change it through editing.

This is a good question to ask, and I'm glad you did.

For myself, personally, the current state of the country/world alternatively disgusts/scares the **** out of me. It helps to have others to share those concerns with - it gives me hope that I'm not alone in how I feel, I guess. That said, I'm not at all opposed to mature, respectful conversation of specific topics or concerns. I would certainly welcome that. But it seems as if that rarely happens here. The personal attacks and blanket statements/assumptions - on BOTH sides - are very off-putting to me.

I do not have a political affiliation. I base my opinions on what fits best with what I personally feel is right or wrong, which is highly influenced by my religious beliefs, specifically how people treat each other. That pretty much puts me smack in the middle between the political parties. Therefore, the whole Dem vs Rep animosity is foreign to me and I have no use for it. The R or D associated with a person/politician's name is pretty low on the list of how I form an opinion about them. I'm much more interested in the way they conduct themselves, the issues they support (or don't), and their level of integrity.

I do realize and respect the fact that this puts me in the minority politically - and likely also makes me naïve.

I'm posting without having read any of the other responses, so if the thread has gone a different direction entirely, my apologies. I wanted to answer the o/p's original question because I think it's a legitimate one and could go a long way in helping us all see where other posters are coming from.)