Question: is anyone really looking for civil discourse?

Well. Nothing ever changes.

I haven't been on here in several months. I came just to see how TX peas were fairing. And over the past year or so I only came once a month or so, and would post something occaisionally and then never come back, because I knew no one really was interested in talking, only screaming, and I had no stomach for it anymore. I really quit coming, because frankly, most of the liberal posters had become nothing but angry, emotional women filled with vitriol, with no desire to have a conversation, only to indulge in mob justice.

The poster on page one who likened it to Berkely yesterday was exactly right. Antifa has its roots right here in 2peas land, metaphorically speaking. Liberal peas have been engaging in their tactics for years now. (and if you don't know whats happening in Berkely, well, thats because the media, the Democrats, and some republicans - Mitt Romney - think they are perfectly justified in their actual violence, because of some mythical violence that a handful of idiots were committing for being white and holding a march, or something)

I read an article today that immediately made me think of this place. Binary thinking is killing us. It hit the nail on the head...and I'll preface this by saying that people on both sides are guilty of this phenomenon, but in my experience, far more liberals engage in it than conservatives. If you read the article,some of you will swear that we have had that same argument here many times. One person points out that perhaps people are poor because the make poor choices, like having children out of wedlock, and then a triggered liberal mob will jump in, torches blazing, and rip that person to shreds for being (insert slur/insult here). A great number of liberals are wholly incapable of dealing with nuanced arguments, and instead are all in on the "throw the baby out with the bath water" wagon. Every conversation attempted here in the last, oh, eight years or so, devolved into this kind of free for all. I can't take that level of stupidity anymore. I want to talk with people of varying ideas, who want to have Socratic type discussions, follow the logic, explore those nuances, apply eternal truths, look back at history...but that doesn't happen here. Dare to bring up a quote from a founding father to illustrate a point, and get labeled a racist because said FF was a slave owner (except, it seems, when that FF can be used to justify their own hatred,seeing that missbennet just quoted TJ). THAT is binary Thinking, and that is liberals here in a nutshell. Even the few liberals that I could always count on being somewhat reasonable seem to have disappeared, I guess even they got tired of the hatred.

As to a few other things I read in this thread...

Someone made a statement to the affect of "being more concerned with keeping people out of the military because we don't like their genitals". BULLshit. That's a perfect example of binary thinking right there. Of course, I'll capitulate that Trump and his effing twitter did nothing to help the situation, the effing baffoon. But he was wholly right to issue the order. We keep people out of the military for all kinds of physical and mental reasons...and this is a huge issue. Transgenders are not fit for military duty based upon their medical needs, and their emotional needs. The military, contrary to the past eight years of Obama, is not a social experiment. Its a fighting force, period. Women should not be in combat positions, nor drafted (and I'm waiting on Trump to reverse that bullshit) and transgenders shouldn't either.

Who do I blame for Trump? I've said it before and I'll say it again. I blame you, liberals. YOU. Everyone of you who put on your blinders and patted yourself on the backs for electing a marxist, unqualified, divisive radical black man because you thought it proved that you aren't a racist. I blame you for excusing all the red flags that told us that Obama was going to be a disaster for this country. I blame you for ripping this country apart by using Obamas skin color as a battle axe, beheading anyone who tried to have a reasonable discussion about WHY he was not fit to hold the office. I remember vividly during the '08 election warning you all that politics are a pendulum, and if you insist on electing such an extreme ideologue based solely on the color of his skin, despite the content of his character or his resume, that you would not like what would come next. And that is exactly what you got. YOU made Donald J Trump happen. You own him. Congratulations.

I didn't want Trump. I railed against him right up until the friggin election day. I walked into the booth sick to my stomach. But I pulled the lever for him, because the alternative was even more nauseating. HRC was the worst candidate known to man. yes, worse than Trump. Which says a lot. But liberals everywhere refused to even discuss her issues (And yes, Missbennet, her emails were extremely relevant) and instead waved her gender around like another friggin battle axe. So reasonable americans saw the writing on the wall, and after eight years of being labeled racist and bigots, they wanted no part of being labeled sexist and misogynist for another four. Thats all on you liberals. If you embrace identity politics, its all on you.

So yes, we have an unfit man in the white house. I weep for our country, but Trump is not the problem. we are the problem. We stopped being self sufficient American citizens, and instead became ignorant sniveling offended children waiting around for handouts from the all mighty federal government. We abandoned the Constitution, we put too much power in the hands of the SCOTUS, we burned the legacy of the enlightened men who founded his nation because we refused to look past the bathwater to see the baby. I really fear that Trump will be our last President. Antifa, BLM, and Democrats in general are intent on ripping this country into shreds. We've made it impossible for GOOD people to seek political office - look what happened to the good GOP candidates over the last few cycles, and there sure as hell aren't any decent Democrat candidates out there...if they dare to not toe the alt-left line, they will be crucified.

And with that, I am signing off, for good. I have no need for this place. It's been a ride, 2Peas.

I get it snowsilver . And again, I'm sorry. What's happened is bad for our country and bad for your party. I hope the GOP will take it back. But I don't have a lot of faith in that happening any time soon because I don't see the GOP leadership expressing the kind of outrage they should be expressing.

If I'm being honest, I would say that anyone who supports Trump and feels that his leadership and the decisions he is making are good for our country, then this is not the place they should be if they are seeking discussion and/or vindication. It's just not going to happen at this point. That will need to be found in a different forum on a different website. The make up of this forum just doesn't allow for it anymore.

And for folks like you who are frustrated and feel you've been robbed of your party, I just don't know...I really don't. I imagine it would get incredibly old and tiresome to be associated with the Trump presidency because you're a Republican and have conservative values and views. But it's just...it's where we're at. He won the GOP nomination and the presidency as a Republican.

I don't know where you take solace. I don't know where you find peace. But maybe it's not on this particular message board on the political threads. I would imagine that it would not be helpful to see many of us railing against him in anger all the dang day long! Because as long as he's providing us reasons to, we're going to be railing against him in anger all the dang day long. We don't feel we have any choice.

Hugs.

look what happened to the good GOP candidates over the last few cycles,

This is why I have avoided the political threads for the most part.  I am pretty firmly a libertarian.  I have the tendency to vote Republican.  When the whole brouhaha started with gay marriage, I started not supporting Republicans who opposed it.  It left me in a lot of ways, just flat out unable to vote.  Then this election came and I'm sorry, I could not support Trump.  There was just no way.  I feel the same way as liberals do about him.  Yet, did I feel like I could support Hillary either?  No.  Then the healthcare bill came out and I was dismayed by that as well.  I think Obamacare did a lot of good things and I support many of them, like coverage for preexisting conditions.  But there are other aspects I'd like to see changed.  The Republican bill was disappointing.  And I was completely disgusted by the tax cuts associated with it.  Right now, I feel so lost.  And you know, in some ways, Republicans have the upper hand in Congress and they are squandering it.  And right now, liberals have the upper hand because the Republican party is such a hot mess.  You liberal voices on this board have more power than you know.  You might not be having your voice heard in Congress, but you've got a whole lot of former Republicans, like me, who you have the opportunity to welcome.  We feel the same way about Trump as you do.  We are people without a party.  And we are the people you need to convince to stand with you in the midterm elections and vote for change.  How you interact with us makes a difference.  At least it has for me.  

I've mostly steered clear of the political threads lately as it usually takes a handful of posts before the same peas are derailing into petty back and forth nonsense. I have no doubt there are many peas on both sides of the political spectrum who would enjoy civil discourse; I've certainly enjoyed it in prior years. But it hasn't been productive or educational and certainly not civil in quite some time. I had the silly notion when this thread reached multiple pages that perhaps it had been achieved, and stopped by to see - I should have known better.

As a final thought, I've never asked the left leaning peas why they don't call out the more obnoxious posters on their "side" as I assume they do what I do - skip over the blowhards who are adding nothing to the discussion. I have little use people who show up on the boards to fling personal insults and other bullshit - and am not going to waste my time engaging with them. But then again, I don't claim any "side" despite people wanting to throw me into one, my political beliefs don't line up well with either.

Bwhahahaha!  You opposed HER moral character but voted for Trump.  Because his moral character is so much better! WTF!  Just take your one sided short memory and go.

<abbr>This</abbr> is why I have avoided the political threads for the most part.  I am pretty firmly a libertarian.  I have the tendency to vote Republican.  When the whole brouhaha started with gay marriage, I started not supporting Republicans who opposed it.  It left me in a lot of ways, just flat out unable to vote.  Then this election came and I'm sorry, I could not support Trump.  There was just no way.  I feel the same way as liberals do about him.  Yet, did I feel like I could support Hillary either?  No.  Then the healthcare bill came out and I was dismayed by that as well.  I think Obamacare did a lot of good things and I support many of them, like coverage for preexisting conditions.  But there are other aspects I'd like to see changed.  The Republican bill was disappointing.  And I was completely disgusted by the tax cuts associated with it.  Right now, I feel so lost.  And you know, in some ways, Republicans have the upper hand in Congress and they are squandering it.  And right now, liberals have the upper hand because the Republican party is such a hot mess.  You liberal voices on this board have more power than you know.  You might not be having your voice heard in Congress, but you've got a whole lot of former Republicans, like me, who you have the opportunity to welcome.  We feel the same way about Trump as you do.  We are people without a party.  And we are the people you need to convince to stand with you in the midterm elections and vote for change.  How you interact with us makes a difference.  At least it has for me.  

This is why I have avoided the political threads for the most part.  I am pretty firmly a libertarian.  I have the tendency to vote Republican.  When the whole brouhaha started with gay marriage, I started not supporting Republicans who opposed it.  It left me in a lot of ways, just flat out unable to vote.  Then this election came and I'm sorry, I could not support Trump.  There was just no way.  I feel the same way as liberals do about him.  Yet, did I feel like I could support Hillary either?  No.  Then the healthcare bill came out and I was dismayed by that as well.  I think Obamacare did a lot of good things and I support many of them, like coverage for preexisting conditions.  But there are other aspects I'd like to see changed.  The Republican bill was disappointing.  And I was completely disgusted by the tax cuts associated with it.  Right now, I feel so lost.  And you know, in some ways, Republicans have the upper hand in Congress and they are squandering it.  And right now, liberals have the upper hand because the Republican party is such a hot mess.  You liberal voices on this board have more power than you know.  You might not be having your voice heard in Congress, but you've got a whole lot of former Republicans, like me, who you have the opportunity to welcome.  We feel the same way about Trump as you do.  We are people without a party.  And we are the people you need to convince to stand with you in the midterm elections and vote for change.  How you interact with us makes a difference.  At least it has for me.  

I guess for me it seems more important now. This isn't about calling out a president over tax policy. This is about calling out a president over much, much more fundamentally frightening things, like supporting Nazis. For dismantling rights for LGBTQ persons on what seems like a whim, and against the wishes/judgement of military personnel. This is about calling out a president who is taking away freedoms rather than opening doors to them.

For me, that is the difference. 

I sincerely hope that we didn't!  One of the reasons I've stuck around this board is the varying viewpoints and the international perspective - I enjoy your posts, even when I don't agree with them. I have lost my temper a few times on this board, and remember twice apologizing to posters - and have deeply regretted it. I've also had people let their frustration and anger get the best of them and have lashed out at me.  To me when you're wading into a discussion about politics, it's going to be volatile and you should realize it won't always be pretty. I have no issue moving on from those discussions.  But if you continually like to just poke the puppy or last word me to death - I pretty rapidly get bored.  I think people sometimes over estimate just how much people read some posters - or maybe I should just speak for myself - I'll be honest, I didn't even finish lynlam's final post as a few sentences in it was pretty obvious what it was and it certainly wasn't anything that was going to prove an educational or insightful discussion and I didn't need to waste my time on the multiple paragraphs.  There's a ton of posters who I at best skim, it's just not worth my time.