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Post by katlady on Sept 11, 2017 17:26:11 GMT
It's offensive if the person is offended. It implies a person "falls for something" or has been brainwashed. It has a negative implication that a person can't figure something out on their own. Wasn't smart enough to rationalize etc. I think "jumped on the bandwagon" is a bit less negative way of saying it, if a phrase is needed. I don't know if it has a different meaning to you than it does over here, but "jump on the bandwagon" means joining in something that is a success but you ( generally) haven't contributed to that success or changing your mind because it's become a success. That isn't the same as following someone blindly without knowledge or being taken in by someone and not know the facts, which I assumed what drinking the kool- aid meant. I've only come across it on here as we don't have kool- aid here. I've only read it in the context that one would think " surely you can't believe/fall for that" type of posts. I guess in my little circle of friends, we use "jumped on the bandwagon" and "drank the kool-aid" as meaning the same thing. If someone starts buying Lululemon, we say they drank the kool-aid meaning, they joined a popular trend. We don't use it a lot, but we don't use it to imply they don't know the facts. I never knew that "drank the kool-aid" was offensive. Now that I think about it, I also hear the term a lot when people talk about Apple fans. And yes, I am old enough to remember Jonestown. |
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 16:48:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 17:28:27 GMT
Since I was so young, only 9 years old, I wouldn't even think to use that phrase. In fact, I've never heard of it.
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Post by gale w on Sept 11, 2017 17:46:21 GMT
Thanks for all the replies. This has been a very enlightening discussion!
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 16:48:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 17:53:04 GMT
I don't know if it has a different meaning to you than it does over here, but "jump on the bandwagon" means joining in something that is a success but you ( generally) haven't contributed to that success or changing your mind because it's become a success. That isn't the same as following someone blindly without knowledge or being taken in by someone and not know the facts, which I assumed what drinking the kool- aid meant. I've only come across it on here as we don't have kool- aid here. I've only read it in the context that one would think " surely you can't believe/fall for that" type of posts. Exactly which is why "Drank the kool-aid" is offensive. Jump on the bandwagon doesn't need to involve success or lack of work. Some folks who jump in and follow the trends (ie: selling lulu roe bandwagon) actually do a lot of work themselves. One of my daughter's teachers sells which ever MLM happens to be the most popular one in the area at any given time. She's done wraps, eye makeup, thrive, luluroe etc. That's what jumping on the bandwagon means to me. She will move on to the next thing pretty soon. But if something becomes popular then it is successful surely, it's accomplished it's aim....it's become popular! |
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Post by *KAS* on Sept 11, 2017 18:15:01 GMT
I never knew the origin of the phrase - probably because I live in the UK and we don't have Kool Aid here. I wasn't aware of the story but I have just read up about it but it's long and complex. I would be interested to know why it has become a phrase that is OK to use. Most people wouldn't make jokes about the Holocaust, and from what I have briefly read, whilst I get that the two incidents are very different but in some ways, these people in Jonestown were in a lightly-similar situation that they were being so brainwashed that they weren't really consenting or giving their own choice. These were innocent people too who fell into a situation that allowed them to be brainwashed and ultimately killed. Sounds like those who were reluctant and tried to hide from it were actually just shot on the spot too. It's an expression that has come out of hundreds of people being killed so I kind of feel uncomfortable about it now I have read about it. I don't know anything about it really other than what I have spent the last 15 minutes reading online. So please correct me if I am wrong. I've definitely used this phrase, but you've spent 15 more minutes researching it than I have. I had no idea where it came from and doubt most people do. I definitely never intended to be offensive and since I usually hear it at work - where we have a very diverse world-wide workforce within our office and our client, I can almost guarantee nobody else realizes where it came from either. Definitely not meant to be offensive. And at the risk of sounding really dumb about history, other than hearing the term Jonestown Massacre, I didn't even know what it was until I just googled it. ETA: This happened the year I was born, which is why I don't remember it. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 11, 2017 20:05:28 GMT
I never knew the origin of the phrase - probably because I live in the UK and we don't have Kool Aid here. I wasn't aware of the story but I have just read up about it but it's long and complex. I would be interested to know why it has become a phrase that is OK to use. Most people wouldn't make jokes about the Holocaust, and from what I have briefly read, whilst I get that the two incidents are very different but in some ways, these people in Jonestown were in a lightly-similar situation that they were being so brainwashed that they weren't really consenting or giving their own choice. These were innocent people too who fell into a situation that allowed them to be brainwashed and ultimately killed. Sounds like those who were reluctant and tried to hide from it were actually just shot on the spot too. It's an expression that has come out of hundreds of people being killed so I kind of feel uncomfortable about it now I have read about it. I don't know anything about it really other than what I have spent the last 15 minutes reading online. So please correct me if I am wrong. I've definitely used this phrase, but you've spent 15 more minutes researching it than I have. I had no idea where it came from and doubt most people do. I definitely never intended to be offensive and since I usually hear it at work - where we have a very diverse world-wide workforce within our office and our client, I can almost guarantee nobody else realizes where it came from either. Definitely not meant to be offensive. And at the risk of sounding really dumb about history, other than hearing the term Jonestown Massacre, I didn't even know what it was until I just googled it. ETA: This happened the year I was born, which is why I don't remember it. It's a pretty common phrase in business. I think it even hit one of those worst business phrases a few years back - I'll try and find a link. Found the link - 2012 - it beat out leverage for most annoying jargon: www.forbes.com/special-report/2012/annoying-business-jargons-12.html |
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Post by pondrunner on Sept 11, 2017 20:13:47 GMT
It was a racial slur used against those of Bohemian descent. Also lumped in with "Gypsy" and the whole cultural appropriation thing. Listen--I'm guilty. I have a boho-chic Pinterest board.  Not trying to be snarky here, but maybe this is an American thing, but I do not know of any racism against people from Bohemia here in Europe (they look just like the rest of us). And calling a spade a spade is a a very old Phrase in my language, far older than any immigration by people with darker skin. Here it has only positive connotations, so again, it might be an American thing that I'm not aware of. Gypsies and Bohemian Jews were targets during the Holocaust, which I suppose makes it worth being cautious how you use words derived from those categories. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 11, 2017 20:20:08 GMT
In looking for the business link above, I stumbled on this atlantic article. It's interesting that it talks about why Kool-Aid caught on more than Flavor-Aid - both were most likely used - because of the history of using Kool-Aid with LSD. I'm wondering if that's also why the phrase has been incorporated into the language. www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/11/stop-saying-drink-the-kool-aid/264957/ |
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Sept 11, 2017 20:50:25 GMT
I've only encountered the phrase in political threads here (& its predecessor), where its used/intended as an insult.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 11, 2017 21:26:19 GMT
Just want to say I try not to use it because I know it's a reference to a terrible tragedy and really not something I want to make light of.
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Post by busy on Sept 11, 2017 21:56:52 GMT
I don't use it, though not for reasons as pure as peabay's.
It's an insult. You're referencing an event where people did something terrible because they were told to by someone else (yes, that's a *massive* simplification). When you say the phrase about someone, you're basically saying she can't think for herself and is a follower. That's never going to be a compliment.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685 
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Post by ginacivey on Sept 11, 2017 23:49:47 GMT
When you say the phrase about someone, you're basically saying she can't think for herself and is a follower. That's never going to be a compliment. this is where i fall you are basically saying to someone 'you are too stupid to think for yourself' gina |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,097
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 11, 2017 23:56:06 GMT
Interesting reading, in searching out information about Jonestown, I found this. mentalfloss.com/article/13015/jonestown-massacre-terrifying-origin-drinking-kool-aidExcerpt copied and pasted: The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, Tom Wolfe's nonfiction book published in 1968. In the book, Wolfe follows Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters as they travel the country in their party bus, encouraging non-drug users to try LSD in an Acid Test -- including a formulation of LSD in Kool-Aid, dubbed "Electric Kool-Aid." The book includes possibly the first negative instance of the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid," and it came a decade before the deaths at Jonestown. Wolfe's book includes this passage, describing a man who had a bad trip (emphasis added): "... There was one man who became completely withdrawn ... I want to say catatonic, because we tried to bring him out of it, and could not make contact at all ... he was sort of a friend of mine, and I had some responsibility for getting him back to town ... he had a previous history of mental hospitals, lack of contact with reality, etc., and when I realized what had happened, I begged him not to drink the Kool-Aid, but he did ... and it was very bad." Because of The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, many Americans were familiar with the idea of being urged to drink Kool-Aid containing, um, unusual chemicals -- even if they hadn't themselves participated in an Acid Test. This familiarity perversely boosted the profile of Kool-Aid, especially in this particular (adulterated) circumstance. Both Beverages Were Onsite Third, plenty of evidence suggests that both Kool-Aid and Flavor Aid were present at Jonestown -- though there was more of the latter. Therefore, in a sense, everybody's right. It may simply come down to whether the term "Kool-Aid" is catchier than "Flavor Aid," and history decided -- much to the consternation of Kool-Aid's marketing department. Today, the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" is firmly entrenched in popular language, although the evidence suggests that it should more realistically be either "drink the Flavor Aid/Kool Aid mix" or the even less-catchy suggestion by Al Tompkins of Poynter: "[drink the] grape-flavored drink mix laced with poison." I think this linguistic horse has left the barn, quenching our thirst for metaphors with it. "OH YEAH!" Further Reading For a thorough examination of the cultural and linguistic effects of the Jonestown massacre, check out Drinking the Kool-Aid: The Cultural Transformation of a Tragedy by Rebecca Moore. In it, she makes the point: ... References [to "drinking the Kool-Aid"] are not uniformly negative. On the contrary, they describe the positive qualities of corporate loyalty or team spirit. For example, when Michael Jordan, a former Chicago Bulls basketball player who now plays for a competing team, returned to his former home to attend a Chicago Bears football game, he was willing to drink "Bears' Kool-Aid."[ii] This meant that Jordan was willing to set aside basketball rivalries in support of the home team at a football game. Moore's paper is just one part of the encyclopedic Jonestown Institute website. It's also worth checking out this Chicago Tribune story rounding up various media mentions of Kool-Aid versus Flavor Aid, 30 years after the Jonestown massacre. If you're into documentaries, I recommend Jonestown: The Life and Death of Peoples Temple (it's on YouTube), which aired on PBS's American Experience in 2008. |
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Post by 16joy on Sept 12, 2017 0:52:17 GMT
I never knew this expression came about as a result of Jamestown. I was a teenager when this happened so I do remember the people drinking the poison. Sadly, I don't remember the congressman and his crew being killed as part of the massacre.
I'll try to find the PBS piece tomorrow and watch.
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Post by elaine on Sept 12, 2017 1:08:58 GMT
I never knew this expression came about as a result of Jamestown. I was a teenager when this happened so I do remember the people drinking the poison. Sadly, I don't remember the congressman and his crew being killed as part of the massacre. I'll try to find the PBS piece tomorrow and watch. The direct link is in this thread (posted by me) unless admin pulled it. |
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 12, 2017 1:23:34 GMT
I know what it means. I've watched the documentary. I've used the phrase in reference to someone who I don't believe is think and is blindly following something.
It is meant to be an insult, so sure, it is offensive. It isn't in a category of phrases I wouldn't use.
Noe, if I knew someone or knew someone who lost someone I wouldn't use it around them, but that doesn't mean I won't use it elsewhere.
Trainwreck is a phrase people use for certain situations. We had a student die in a trainwreck last year. It is not used in our school. I don't expect the world to quit using the phrase.
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Post by gale w on Sept 12, 2017 2:34:09 GMT
I wish I'd never posted this now. If anyone gets banned because of their reply or subsequent discussion I will be so upset.  |
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Post by busy on Sept 12, 2017 3:00:00 GMT
Wait, what??? I skipped most of the thread... what could have happened that would result in banning??? (Back ot read it all, I guess.)
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Post by elaine on Sept 12, 2017 3:14:49 GMT
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Post by Clair on Sept 12, 2017 3:39:00 GMT
For the record...I did not report the pics to Admin.
You are right - I did originally think the babies were deceased. You did post other graphic pictures.
It's comments like this that just show you were trying to be controversial.
FTR - I did read the whole post and I am quite familiar with the massacre. I stand by my original belief that the pictures shouldn't have been posted just so you could prove your point and teach someone a lesson.
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Post by elaine on Sept 12, 2017 3:49:08 GMT
For the record...I did not report the pics to Admin. You are right - I did originally think the babies were deceased. You did post other graphic pictures. It's comments like this that just show you were trying to be controversial. FTR - I did read the whole post and I am quite familiar with the massacre. I stand by my original belief that the pictures shouldn't have been posted just so you could prove your point and teach someone a lesson.  Yeah, no. This is the exact picture. Who looks deceased in this picture? If you can't tell live happy babies from deceased ones, maybe you have no business posting about pictures anyone posts as your interpretive compass is completely out-of-whack. Here are the links to the other three three pictures for people to look at on their own. All acceptable, NOT gruesome, news photos. Much more PG-13 than the various threads on sexual genitalia and sex toys we have here. I still say that you need to pull on your big queen-sized panties if news photos (by the way, note that one is a Getty image) are so shocking you need to have them pulled and me banned. Links to pictures: farm5.staticflickr.com/4382/36985454862_9c639b31e5_o_d.jpgfarm5.staticflickr.com/4410/37156702625_498bdfb5e1_o_d.jpgfarm5.staticflickr.com/4346/36320005274_0b5a00eb31_o_d.jpg |
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Post by Clair on Sept 12, 2017 3:56:52 GMT
Did you even read what I wrote....
I did not contact admin.
I said I was mistaken about the picture.
As you yourself have said, you posted the other pictures too.
I gave my opinion and I stand by it.
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Post by miominmio on Sept 12, 2017 4:25:28 GMT
Not trying to be snarky here, but maybe this is an American thing, but I do not know of any racism against people from Bohemia here in Europe (they look just like the rest of us). And calling a spade a spade is a a very old Phrase in my language, far older than any immigration by people with darker skin. Here it has only positive connotations, so again, it might be an American thing that I'm not aware of. Gypsies and Bohemian Jews were targets during the Holocaust, which I suppose makes it worth being cautious how you use words derived from those categories. All Jews (and several millions of other undesirables) were exterminated, so I still fail to see why "Bohemia" references are wrong. |
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Post by ~summer~ on Sept 12, 2017 4:45:57 GMT
I agree that there should be no issue with photos that elucidate the topics we are discussing. I have learned a lot through these forums (such as how to behave properly at a supermarket!) this is one of the few places where I have actually shifted opinion based on people's input.
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Post by ~summer~ on Sept 12, 2017 4:48:40 GMT
Elaine - she admitted she did think they were deceased which I think is understandable. But she did not contact admin or report them.
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Post by LiLi on Sept 12, 2017 4:54:57 GMT
Isn't "Heaven's Gate" another group that "drank the koolaid"? Phenobarbitol and juice or something?
The phrase doesn't bug me too much. I'm not even really sure why? It is meant as an insult though, isn't it? Just seems fairly mild.
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Post by burningfeather on Sept 12, 2017 5:36:39 GMT
Isn't "Heaven's Gate" another group that "drank the koolaid"? Phenobarbitol and juice or something? The phrase doesn't bug me too much. I'm not even really sure why? It is meant as an insult though, isn't it? Just seems fairly mild. I can't recall what they used, but the big difference is that they were all adults and there was no sign that anyone was forced or did anything unwillingly. As a side note, there will be a new podcast by the producer of "Missing Richard Simmons" that comes out in the fall about Heaven's Gate. I expect that it will probably be 6-8 episodes in length. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 16:48:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 12:24:53 GMT
I didn't see when the pictures were first posted--were they posted directly in the thread, or were they links? People usually put warnings on thread titles, or will provide enough space in a thread to by-pass or warn of pictures, for topics ranging from death to clowns and spiders.
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moodyblue
Drama Llama
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Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Sept 12, 2017 13:49:05 GMT
I will go out on a limb and state that when I first looked at the picture that Elaine has reposted, I DID think those babies shown were not alive. I don't think they clearly look like "happy" babies and if that picture was posted along with others that showed the deceased victims, it would be easy to think all of the pictures were of victims no longer alive.
I'll also say that I don't want to look at pictures of the victims that show them dead, so I won't be clicking on the links for those. And I think I can understand why the admin pulled them, even if they aren't graphic.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 12, 2017 16:38:53 GMT
I know what it means. I've watched the documentary. I've used the phrase in reference to someone who I don't believe is think and is blindly following something. It is meant to be an insult, so sure, it is offensive. It isn't in a category of phrases I wouldn't use.Noe, if I knew someone or knew someone who lost someone I wouldn't use it around them, but that doesn't mean I won't use it elsewhere. Trainwreck is a phrase people use for certain situations. We had a student die in a trainwreck last year. It is not used in our school. I don't expect the world to quit using the phrase. ^^^ that's where I fall. I don't use it as a compliment, for sure... but that's how I mean it when I use it. I think it's one of those phrases that's gotten into the language lexicon. And, like the articles posted say, the phrase was around before Jamestown. |
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