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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 3, 2017 1:08:58 GMT
I have a question. How was this hidden from housekeeping at the hotel? 10 suitcases, single occupant since the 28th? Just wondering about what hotel security best practices are as admittedly I'm clueless in this area. You also don't have to let housekeeping in. I never do when I stay in a hotel. Its easy to keep them out.  Simple. Just put the Do Not Disturb door hanger on the door and they won't come in. I'd think that happens fairly often in Las Vegas and wouldn't be unusual because people tend to keep unconventional hours there with everything open 24/7/365. |
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Post by cookiemum on Oct 3, 2017 1:57:48 GMT
A friend of my sister was there. My sister's friend is fine - the other girl was shot in the shoulder and recently died making her victim #59.
I'm sure all the right to bear arms arguments will warm these people tonight and in the days to come. Things can be done, changes can be made however compromise is not a word that many people seem to be familiar with.
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Post by lucyg on Oct 3, 2017 2:14:59 GMT
A friend of my sister was there. My sister's friend is fine - the other girl was shot in the shoulder and recently died making her victim #59. I'm sure all the right to bear arms arguments will warm these people tonight and in the days to come. Things can be done, changes can be made however compromise is not a word that many people seem to be familiar with. I am so sorry.  |
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Post by tracyarts on Oct 3, 2017 2:50:45 GMT
Note: While I support the 2nd amendment, and am a gun owner, I think there should be limits and regulations put in place. Because my gun was given to me as a gift from a relative, I've gone through zero background checks and would not show up in any database. Same here, we "inherited" our old shotgun and rifle after elderly family members died and their surviving spouses said "take it if you want it". My husband hunts occasionally, so we were happy to have them. But there's no paper trail, no background checks, no mention of them in wills, no record of ownership, no registration, and no documentation of any kind anywhere. I'm sure there were receipts of purchase from the sporting goods stores they originally came from, but that was decades ago. I know this isn't a unique situation. Who knows how many old men's guns got quietly passed along to family members and friends after their deaths. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 2:56:14 GMT
Tell me you didn't know this was coming....
Pat Robertson blames the Las Vegas shooting on disrespect for Trump, God, and the National Anthem.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 2:59:32 GMT
I have a question. How was this hidden from housekeeping at the hotel? 10 suitcases, single occupant since the 28th? Just wondering about what hotel security best practices are as admittedly I'm clueless in this area. well housekeeping wouldn't go through the bags and he was in a suite. Have they said how long he had the reservation for |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 3:01:29 GMT
Tell me you didn't know this was coming.... Pat Robertson blames the Las Vegas shooting on disrespect for Trump, God, and the National Anthem. pat Robertson is a miserable prick |
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Post by jenis40 on Oct 3, 2017 3:11:12 GMT
I'm very upset by the shootings that keep happening but the gun ban that some are pushing for is not going to happen. We have seveal weapons and I have NO desire to relinquish my right to them. I've personally have pulled them several times at my home. Criminals have had the stupidity to show up at our house and one even had the balls to enter through a window. Without my legal weapons,god knows what would have happened. I keep my guns locked, have attened saftey classes and am responsible. I enjoy being able to go hunting and the security to be able to protect myself. I don't have a solution but I know that giving up my saftey to make someone else feel safe is not the answer. Before someone says that I don't care about those whom lost their lives they are wrong. The answer is not as easy as to ban all guns, but something needs to change. Until people change, no change in gun laws is going to help. With the exception of one person on this thread, no one is talking about banning guns. Most Liberals don't want to take your guns. What we do want is some common sense gun laws that apply to all states. 1. stronger background checks to prevent guns from going into the hands of the mentally ill like the man who shot up my oncologists office. He was released from a 72 hour psych hold and the sheriff was required to return his guns to him. Two hours later he shot his wife and himself in an office full of cancer patients getting chemo. Should that guy have had his guns returned to him? Kind of seems like a no brainer that maybe there should have been a bit more of a waiting period before he got his guns back. 2. Limit magazine size. You don't need a 30 round clip for anything unless you are a soldier or a cop. 3. If you want to sell your gun, you need to do it through a licensed gun dealer. Are any of those too much to ask? Yet anytime gun legislation is brought up a certain segment of the population starts screaming their heads off that they're going to take away your guns and not a fucking thing gets done. And then the next tragedy happens and we get thoughts and prayers from our elected officials who are owned by the NRA. Literally how many people have to die? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 3:11:21 GMT
The hypocrisy of the right:
After terror attacks, politicians push for tougher terror laws. But after mass shootings, they say tougher gun control laws won’t work.
Congressional Republicans: GUN LAWS WON'T STOP SHOOTINGS; Congressional Republicans: ABORTION LAWS WILL STOP ABORTIONS
Trump called for a "total and complete shutdown" of the entry of Muslims to the United States "until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on." How about a complete and total shutdown of white men in the US buying guns until our country can figure out what the hell is going on?
GOP: "We can't regulate evil". Then what the hell are child labor laws, environmental laws, drug safety laws, worker safety laws, finance laws, criminal laws?
GOP falls all over itself defending "precious unborn life" that has no higher level brain functions but couldn't give two sh#*#s about common sense protection of ACTUAL LIVES with minds and memories and who aren't living inside of another person.
There are 33,000 gun deaths/year in US. GOP: "Don't talk about guns" There have been <50 cases of voter impersonation since 2000. GOP: "We must have a voter fraud commission!"
and on and on and on....
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 3:22:38 GMT
I'm very upset by the shootings that keep happening but the gun ban that some are pushing for is not going to happen. We have seveal weapons and I have NO desire to relinquish my right to them. I've personally have pulled them several times at my home. Criminals have had the stupidity to show up at our house and one even had the balls to enter through a window. Without my legal weapons,god knows what would have happened. I keep my guns locked, have attened saftey classes and am responsible. I enjoy being able to go hunting and the security to be able to protect myself. I don't have a solution but I know that giving up my saftey to make someone else feel safe is not the answer. Before someone says that I don't care about those whom lost their lives they are wrong. The answer is not as easy as to ban all guns, but something needs to change. Until people change, no change in gun laws is going to help. I am sure that you are a lovely, responsible person who would never hurt anyone. I hold no animosity toward you... personally or on any level whatsoever. I also fully admit that I am very radicalized on this issue- I own that, and acknowledge that my views are "out there." But I have to say after reading your post: I don't care. I don't care that you desire to keep your guns. I don't care that you like to hunt. I don't care that you feel safer with a gun in the house. I am so sick of seeing my fellow citizens slaughtered on a regular basis because of our country's love affair with guns. Guns have one purpose- to kill or maim other living things. We don't need them anymore. The price that our society has paid and continues to pay is not worth it anymore. Sandy Hook did it for me, and every similar tragedy since then has strengthened my views on this. If I told you that I desired to keep a nuclear warhead because I feel safer with one in the house, you would tell me to eff off. Rightly so. Well, in my opinion, guns have crossed the line into that same exact territory. I simply don't care anymore about what gun owners want. The price that guns extract from us is simply too high. and the not caring, trying to force that on others is why the NRA has the membership it does. It is why some people who don't like Trump votes for Hillary. It is why some people continue to vote red. For some it is the only issue. We own guns even though I am not a fan. Most people around here own guns. It really is a pry them from my cold dead hands attitude and that isn't going to change. The don't care what you think either. There needs to be bipartisan work on this and it is going to have to be a compromise. At first it might not be enough, but it could be a step. I liken it to the smoking ban here. First it was restaurants, then something else, then all indoor places, finally they added a buffer at the doors. Smokers would have fought hard if it had been an all out ban out of the gate it would have been harder to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 3:31:47 GMT
For those waiting for this "to end", it won't. Not unless we force changes to be made like the many common sense approaches suggested above and for the last decades.
But it's not going to fix itself. So don't expect it to.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 3, 2017 4:33:46 GMT
I am sure that you are a lovely, responsible person who would never hurt anyone. I hold no animosity toward you... personally or on any level whatsoever. I also fully admit that I am very radicalized on this issue- I own that, and acknowledge that my views are "out there." But I have to say after reading your post: I don't care. I don't care that you desire to keep your guns. I don't care that you like to hunt. I don't care that you feel safer with a gun in the house. I am so sick of seeing my fellow citizens slaughtered on a regular basis because of our country's love affair with guns. Guns have one purpose- to kill or maim other living things. We don't need them anymore. The price that our society has paid and continues to pay is not worth it anymore. Sandy Hook did it for me, and every similar tragedy since then has strengthened my views on this. If I told you that I desired to keep a nuclear warhead because I feel safer with one in the house, you would tell me to eff off. Rightly so. Well, in my opinion, guns have crossed the line into that same exact territory. I simply don't care anymore about what gun owners want. The price that guns extract from us is simply too high. and the not caring, trying to force that on others is why the NRA has the membership it does. It is why some people who don't like Trump votes for Hillary. It is why some people continue to vote red. For some it is the only issue. We own guns even though I am not a fan. Most people around here own guns. It really is a pry them from my cold dead hands attitude and that isn't going to change. The don't care what you think either. There needs to be bipartisan work on this and it is going to have to be a compromise. At first it might not be enough, but it could be a step. I liken it to the smoking ban here. First it was restaurants, then something else, then all indoor places, finally they added a buffer at the doors. Smokers would have fought hard if it had been an all out ban out of the gate it would have been harder to do. Ideally, I would like to see a huge reduction in the number of guns in this country, along with a different attitude about guns in general. But I know that is not going to happen (especially the huge reduction). However, I am tired of having to bow down to the extremists and NRA. Remember their most recent online ads? There is no rationalizing with people like that. And that is one example showing that the divide and comments about people are more than just because of their vote. It's because of a fundamental difference in beliefs and values. This has been more apparent to me over the years that Obama was president, but has Become crystal clear now that we have Trump and all he stands for. There have been attempts at compromise and minor changes to laws. They have either been completely shot down or were recently repealed by Trump. I've heard that a majority of Americans agree with stricter gun laws. So why don't we have them? Groups like the NRA should not have any say in our laws. Especially after the latest ads, they have shown who they are and what they stand for. Anyone that supports that is deplorable. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 4:43:42 GMT
and the not caring, trying to force that on others is why the NRA has the membership it does. It is why some people who don't like Trump votes for Hillary. It is why some people continue to vote red. For some it is the only issue. We own guns even though I am not a fan. Most people around here own guns. It really is a pry them from my cold dead hands attitude and that isn't going to change. The don't care what you think either. There needs to be bipartisan work on this and it is going to have to be a compromise. At first it might not be enough, but it could be a step. I liken it to the smoking ban here. First it was restaurants, then something else, then all indoor places, finally they added a buffer at the doors. Smokers would have fought hard if it had been an all out ban out of the gate it would have been harder to do. You talk about taking steps like they did with the smoking ban. But how many restaurant workers developed lung cancer from second hand smoke waiting for full ban in restaurants to be place? How many more people are going die by guns before we actually decide “that’s enough” and do something meaningful? When did we become a country where 33,000 + preventable gun deaths became acceptable? Tonight 59 families and friends are grieving the loss of a loved one because some old white guy with way too many guns decided for a reason only known to himself to sit on the 32nd floor of an expensive hotel and shoot innocent concert goers. And you talk of taking bipartisanship steps. IMO the best time for that was after Sandy Hook. President Obama did call for bipartisan common sense laws to prevent another Sandy Hook. What was the response from the other side? ”The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” That was the NRA which dictates the gun supporters in Congress response to gun control or lack of. Just think of where we could be today if the NRA had been willing to work with President Obama to come up with some common sense gun control laws after Sandy Hook. Maybe those 59 people would still be alive tonight. The reality is the majority of gun owners don’t care about my safety or the majority of Americans who don’t own guns if it somehow affects their ability to buy a gun, buy many guns, and buy military type guns. I’m just wondering how many more innocent people must die before the majority in this country say screw you this is the way it’s going to be. And universal laws are passed to stop some guy from owning 40 plus guns that some acted like if they weren’t already sniper rifles. |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 4:45:37 GMT
and the not caring, trying to force that on others is why the NRA has the membership it does. It is why some people who don't like Trump votes for Hillary. It is why some people continue to vote red. For some it is the only issue. We own guns even though I am not a fan. Most people around here own guns. It really is a pry them from my cold dead hands attitude and that isn't going to change. The don't care what you think either. There needs to be bipartisan work on this and it is going to have to be a compromise. At first it might not be enough, but it could be a step. I liken it to the smoking ban here. First it was restaurants, then something else, then all indoor places, finally they added a buffer at the doors. Smokers would have fought hard if it had been an all out ban out of the gate it would have been harder to do. Ideally, I would like to see a huge reduction in the number of guns in this country, along with a different attitude about guns in general. But I know that is not going to happen (especially the huge reduction). However, I am tired of having to bow down to the extremists and NRA. Remember their most recent online ads? There is no rationalizing with people like that. And that is one example showing that the divide and comments about people are more than just because of their vote. It's because of a fundamental difference in beliefs and values. This has been more apparent to me over the years that Obama was president, but has Become crystal clear now that we have Trump and all he stands for. There have been attempts at compromise and minor changes to laws. They have either been completely shot down or were recently repealed by Trump. I've heard that a majority of Americans agree with stricter gun laws. So why don't we have them? Groups like the NRA should not have any say in our laws. Especially after the latest ads, they have shown who they are and what they stand for. Anyone that supports that is deplorable. I'm not a fan of the NRA and completely agree with you. The problem is that just like the NRA, the loudest voices of the gun control fight are the ones on the extreme. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 3, 2017 4:47:43 GMT
Ideally, I would like to see a huge reduction in the number of guns in this country, along with a different attitude about guns in general. But I know that is not going to happen (especially the huge reduction). However, I am tired of having to bow down to the extremists and NRA. Remember their most recent online ads? There is no rationalizing with people like that. And that is one example showing that the divide and comments about people are more than just because of their vote. It's because of a fundamental difference in beliefs and values. This has been more apparent to me over the years that Obama was president, but has Become crystal clear now that we have Trump and all he stands for. There have been attempts at compromise and minor changes to laws. They have either been completely shot down or were recently repealed by Trump. I've heard that a majority of Americans agree with stricter gun laws. So why don't we have them? Groups like the NRA should not have any say in our laws. Especially after the latest ads, they have shown who they are and what they stand for. Anyone that supports that is deplorable. I'm not a fan of the NRA and completely agree with you. The problem is that just like the NRA, the loudest voices of the gun control fight are the ones on the extreme. Honestly, I think that the right wing media makes up or at the very least exaggerates ideas regarding gun laws in order to scare people. I have not heard any major politician saying they wanted to take every single gun away, yet that is what many think is going to happen. |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 4:52:22 GMT
I'm sure a lot, but how many didn't get lung cancer because instead of spending 10 years fighting about an all out ban and getting nothing, there were steps taken.
How many people still get cancer because not all states have smoking bans?
Wouldn't it be better to have a bipartisan effort to make some national steps forward rather than each side digging in?
I want to see something done, but I don't believe it will if we continue to use the same arguments and the same rhetoric.
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Post by katlady on Oct 3, 2017 4:54:39 GMT
Not sure if this belongs on the political or nonpolitical thread but the news tonight is talking a lot about how to improve security at concert venues (bag checks, body checks, etc.). BUT, in the Las Vegas case, the problem was not with security at the concert venue, it was with a hotel across the street. You could have strip searched every concert goer but this tragedy would have still happened.  |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 3, 2017 4:55:05 GMT
I'm not a fan of the NRA and completely agree with you. The problem is that just like the NRA, the loudest voices of the gun control fight are the ones on the extreme. Honestly, I think that the right wing media makes up or at the very least exaggerates ideas regarding gun laws in order to scare people. I have not heard any major politician saying they wanted to take every single gun away, yet that is what many think is going to happen. I also won't disagree with you There, but their message is getting through and there are some congressmen as well as state level representative plus lobbyists that do scream for total bans and making the buybacks like other countries have done. All the NRA and right wing media need is a sound bite or two. |
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Enna
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Post by Enna on Oct 3, 2017 5:45:55 GMT
This discussion makes me so sad.
There are terrorist attacks in Europe, lately more and more. Cars have been used as weapons.
But here we don't throw our hands in the air and think that oh well, everybody has a car. And they have a right to own a car. There's no way we can stop these attacks.
Cities around Europe are building barricades and thinking other ways to stop attacks.
Isn't it worth trying in the US? To see what happens if there are better gun laws?
Even if it stops only one or two mass shootings, isn't it worth it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 6:47:10 GMT
I'm sure a lot, but how many didn't get lung cancer because instead of spending 10 years fighting about an all out ban and getting nothing, there were steps taken. How many people still get cancer because not all states have smoking bans? Wouldn't it be better to have a bipartisan effort to make some national steps forward rather than each side digging in? I want to see something done, but I don't believe it will if we continue to use the same arguments and the same rhetoric. First I’m pretty sure that the people who did get lung cancer would be thrilled with your comment about how many didn’t once the ban was in place. I would guess they would be wondering why they are so lucky. I look at states that don’t have smoking bans as backward states who don’t care about their citizens well being. You want a bipartisanship solution and yet President Obama offered just that. And nothing. If the Republicans didn’t believe what he said they could have called him on it by agreeing to work with him. But they did nothing. Because they were not and are interested. If anything, as they have proven, they want to make it easier for people to buy guns. You talk about the same arguments and rhetoric stopping any change. But from those of us who want gun control what we want is for this to stop. That is some argument for doing nothing, the other side wanting innocent people to stop dying by guns. Damn how dare we want something like that. Too many listen to the NRA who lead gun owners to believe any law is a bad law. And that is the problem. Not arguments or rhetoric from the other side. Again, all we want is for this to stop. The best chance to have gotten a bipartisanship approach was after Sandy Hook was with President Obama. You are never going to get one with trump as president and a GOP controlled Congress. |
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Post by gar on Oct 3, 2017 7:55:15 GMT
This discussion makes me so sad. There are terrorist attacks in Europe, lately more and more. Cars have been used as weapons. But here we don't throw our hands in the air and think that oh well, everybody has a car. And they have a right to own a car. There's no way we can stop these attacks. Cities around Europe are building barricades and thinking other ways to stop attacks. Isn't it worth trying in the US? To see what happens if there are better gun laws? Even if it stops only one or two mass shootings, isn't it worth it? It seems so obvious doesn't it  The NRA is a massive part of the problem, with their 'influence' over politicians and I obviously don't have a clue what can be done about that but it rang true when someone earlier (on this thread I think) said that Americans (big generalisation) are a little too 'every man for himself' in their attitude to ever expect keen gun carriers to give up their weapons. That's just so sad when no one is saying that all guns should be banned. But the NRA feed that fear. We don't have a constitution and the thinking that something written so long ago is still 100% relevant and cannot in any way shape or form, be adapted, is just unfathomable to me. Other countries adapt and change their rights and laws as things evolve - I think a NZ poster referred to this earlier in the thread - why can't, won't the USA? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 3, 2017 10:42:12 GMT
Forget background checks on the mentally ill, that is just too hard.
The best and first thing that should be done is to prohibit the types of guns available to the general public---no one really needs to have weapons that shoot multiple rounds in rapid succession except LEO and THE MILITARY.
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Post by Merge on Oct 3, 2017 11:24:54 GMT
This discussion makes me so sad. There are terrorist attacks in Europe, lately more and more. Cars have been used as weapons. But here we don't throw our hands in the air and think that oh well, everybody has a car. And they have a right to own a car. There's no way we can stop these attacks. Cities around Europe are building barricades and thinking other ways to stop attacks. Isn't it worth trying in the US? To see what happens if there are better gun laws? Even if it stops only one or two mass shootings, isn't it worth it? It seems so obvious doesn't it The NRA is a massive part of the problem, with their 'influence' over politicians and I obviously don't have a clue what can be done about that but it rang true when someone earlier (on this thread I think) said that Americans (big generalisation) are a little too 'every man for himself' in their attitude to ever expect keen gun carriers to give up their weapons. That's just so sad when no one is saying that all guns should be banned. But the NRA feed that fear. We don't have a constitution and the thinking that something written so long ago is still 100% relevant and cannot in any way shape or form, be adapted, is just unfathomable to me. Other countries adapt and change their rights and laws as things evolve - I think a NZ poster referred to this earlier in the thread - why can't, won't the USA? Oh, we've amended the constitution many times in our history. This particular battle has a lot of money behind it on one side. At its core, it has nothing to do with freedom or the constitution and everything to do with the gun industry protecting its bottom line. |
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Post by gar on Oct 3, 2017 11:35:31 GMT
It seems so obvious doesn't it The NRA is a massive part of the problem, with their 'influence' over politicians and I obviously don't have a clue what can be done about that but it rang true when someone earlier (on this thread I think) said that Americans (big generalisation) are a little too 'every man for himself' in their attitude to ever expect keen gun carriers to give up their weapons. That's just so sad when no one is saying that all guns should be banned. But the NRA feed that fear. We don't have a constitution and the thinking that something written so long ago is still 100% relevant and cannot in any way shape or form, be adapted, is just unfathomable to me. Other countries adapt and change their rights and laws as things evolve - I think a NZ poster referred to this earlier in the thread - why can't, won't the USA? Oh, we've amended the constitution many times in our history. This particular battle has a lot of money behind it on one side. At its core, it has nothing to do with freedom or the constitution and everything to do with the gun industry protecting its bottom line. I guess so. I just hear/see regular people stating that as the reason they will never give up their guns. Do you think their thoughts and opinions are reinforced all the time by the NRA rhetoric? Is their influence very obvious, more than just with politicians? |
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Post by scrapalotomous on Oct 3, 2017 11:37:11 GMT
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Oct 3, 2017 11:39:12 GMT
I changed my post after giving it more thought; they did limit some of those things, I agree-- I forgot some of that. But I still think tackling the root cause of these kind of tragedies is important, not just limiting the means by which they are accomplished. I think we need both. We have to decide what we are willing to give up in order to live in a safer country. Australia and the UK both gave up home gun ownership after mass shootings. If that was going to happen here it would have happened after Sandy Hook. But there are other options. Limit the manufacture of certain weapons. Or the number of bullets a person can own at one time. We have to stop (and not saying you are saying this) throwing our hands in the air and saying "the criminals will still get guns" |
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scrappinghappy
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Post by scrappinghappy on Oct 3, 2017 11:40:08 GMT
I havent read the whole thread and I am going to say I am all for tougher gun laws. But lets be honest. Gun laws will only affect honest people and those who want to turn in their guns. All the rest will just hide them. And because of the huge quantities of assault weapons out there I think we will still be horrified by more mass shootings. We are trying to close the gate after all the horses have bolted from the stable. I hope we get stricter laws but i fear we are passed the point of them making a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 11:43:04 GMT
I'll just leave this here for the ones that just shrug their shoulders and say " there's nothing that can be done about it"
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Oct 3, 2017 11:52:11 GMT
I think we need 7 things.
1. Acess to Mental Health
2. A way for Mental Health professionals to "flag" a person who should not have guns. (this would require a lot of training etc. Its a long term solution not a short term one)
3. Limit the sale of semi and automatic weapons, and the manufacture of military grade weapons.
4. Limit the amount of ammunition a person can own at one time. You have to provide used casings to purchase new ones.
5. Require fire arm safety course and licensure for owning a gun. (this should include graphic pictures of gun violence, just like you see graphic pictures of car accidents in Drivers Ed)
6. Require insurance on all guns .
7. Institute a bi-partisan campaign against gun violence. Like the MADD campaigns in the late 80's/90's.
I am no expert but if I can come up with a list of 7 things.. only ONE that limits gun ownership. We can work towards a solution if we really want too.
ETA: A National Gun Buy back program where the guns are destroyed.
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Post by busy on Oct 3, 2017 12:02:38 GMT
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Simple. Just put the Do Not Disturb door hanger on the door and they won't come in. I'd think that happens fairly often in Las Vegas and wouldn't be unusual because people tend to keep unconventional hours there with everything open 24/7/365.
