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Post by refugeepea on Nov 17, 2017 3:02:15 GMT
Why doesn’t the same apply for Moore, Trump? Why are you asking me?  |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 17, 2017 3:12:00 GMT
they are serial abusers. And Moore likes teens.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 17, 2017 3:33:12 GMT
Second woman comes forward with bombshell harassment allegations against Senator Al Franken Rare CARLIN BECKER Hours after sports commentator Leeann Tweeden accused Democratic Senator Al Franken of groping and kissing her without her consent, another woman is stepping forward with harrowing claims about the man. “Yes, it’s true. I was stalked and harassed by Al Franken,” Media Equalizer and Media Equality Project Co-Founder Melanie Morgan tweeted on Thursday. “I will have details @mediaequalizer shortly.” She then recounted her story, saying she appeared on a 2000 episode of ABC’s late night show Politically Incorrect alongside Franken, William Baldwin, and then-Colorado Lt. Governor Joe Rogers. “I was invited and unaware of who his guests were going to be that night. I’ve since learned that though few know this, Al Franken was actually a writer for the show,” Morgan said. “I made a statement about the budget numbers, Franken challenged me, I challenged him back. It was about spending priorities, actually just a mundane discussion. But he obsessed over it.” After the show, he reportedly wouldn’t leave her alone: He approached me backstage, angrily called me out on those numbers and insisted he would prove he was right. He wouldn’t leave me alone, he kept following me. As a woman, his presence and proximity to me felt very threatening and intimidating. I didn’t realize his creepy behavior after the show meant it would continue in the days to come. He approached Carol, the show’s producer and demanded my home phone number, which was a clear violation of network protocol. I had thought that was the end of the story and was shocked when he started calling my home, badgering me repeatedly. I became fearful and called Carol to complain and asked her to tell him to back off. But he made another call after that. I thought that he might end up stalking me at my home in Northern California, it was that bad. By the third phone call I was outraged and terrified, as he is really disturbed. www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/16/second-woman-comes-forward-with-bombshell-harassment-allegations-against-senator-al-franken/23280102/
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Post by refugeepea on Nov 17, 2017 3:35:26 GMT
they are serial abusers. And Moore likes teens. Are you answering my post? |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 17, 2017 3:43:39 GMT
Are you answering my post? No. |
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Post by Anna*Banana on Nov 17, 2017 3:48:31 GMT
I just heard a live interview with Leeann Tweeden. His behavior was so creepy and mean. And it was only 11 years ago. My dh and I had hoped he would consider running for President. No more. I will never vote for him. I think that we are seeing a new women’s movement that started on January 21 with those marches. This movement is about a more personal cultural and social treatment of women than the movement of the 70s when the focus was on the world of work. I hope we get to a point where women don’t have to keep having movements - suffrage, the 70s, and now in 2017 - to receive equal treatment and respect. And sadly, I heard there’s another that has come forward. I️t is time. Enough. No more. Period. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 17, 2017 3:57:42 GMT
And sadly, I heard there’s another that has come forward. I️t is time. Enough. No more. Period. I posted it above. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,890
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Nov 17, 2017 4:29:21 GMT
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Nov 17, 2017 5:33:31 GMT
Mr. President, I await your accompanying tweet about Mr. Moore. |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by cycworker on Nov 17, 2017 5:55:14 GMT
Sorry unless a whole lot more women come forward with proof of a whole lot more incidents, he's not a pig. He's a person who behaved in a piggish, unacceptable matter a long time ago, is owning up to it & needs to learn from it. Investigate him. Make sure there haven't been incidents since he was elected. If there were, then yes, consequences. Until then, he's still closer to the 'good guy who did a dumbass thing' end of the continuum than he is the 'misogynist predator' end of the continuum. Am I disappointed to read this information about Al Franken? Of course. It's horribly disheartening. But that doesn't mean I'm willing to put him in the same camp as Trump or Roy Moore. Or even, it hurts me a lot to say, Bill Clinton. How is the distinction between a pig and a man who behaved piggishly useful at all? Good guy who did a dumbass thing? Why does that even need to be said? He was not acting as a good guy when he put his hands on a sleeping person and smiled for the camera, he was doing something very wrong. Perhaps in another context he is in fact a good person but if you are willing to caption that photo "good guy doing a dumb thing" you are part of the problem. Well, no. I'm not. I'm acknowledging that if he's not a chronic/repeat offender who sees nothing wrong with how he behaved, there's the potential there for him to be rehabilitated. The reality is, and forgive me, because I'm going to get into theory here - but if you look at Ecological Systems Theory, we are products not only of the individual cultures (i.e. our families) and the immediate surrounding systems we exist in, we're also part of a broader culture. We live in capitalist patriarchy. No person is going to completely escape the impact of that. All men, on some level have at least a little of this crap in them. It's how they're socialized. And again - in this context I don't mean socialized in the sense of 'their parents raised them that way.' I mean, within the wider society they grow up in, men & women are exposed to things which on some level - even unconsciously - has to impact them. It takes concerted, deliberate effort to be deprogrammed from it. And yes, I'm admitting that I'm not immune to it. Hell, I'm sitting here typing and I'm in a stupid amount of pain in my hip from (a hip that in theory doctors would tell you I shouldn't be able to feel) from an old break that didn't heal correctly and I'm reluctant to make a doctor's appointment because I'm nervous she's going to tell me she wants me to have the surgery to correct it & I'm leery of the impact the time off will have on my career going into an election in October of 2018. Because I've got a disability & I've 'learned' that I have to be twice as strong & never let anyone see me having a medical issue, or I'll immediately get lumped in with those 'other' disabled folks who can't hold onto a job. That is how capitalist patriarchy works. Nay, how it thrives. By teaching us to see everyone/every situation as a competition, by objectifying people, and a whole lot of other crap that makes it really tough for humans to connect. So no. I'm not quite ready to write Al Franken off just yet. |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by cycworker on Nov 17, 2017 5:59:22 GMT
And I wrote all of the above - the broader parts of which I stand by - prior to reading the latest accusations on the top of page 4. Damn. I get wanting to be right. I love being right.  But that? Calling her at home like that and badgering her because of an argument about politics? That's creepy, out of line & downright abusive. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,890
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Nov 17, 2017 6:12:49 GMT
Mr. President, I await your accompanying tweet about Mr. Moore. please don't hold your breath AmeliaBloomer, we'd miss you 'round here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 10:21:40 GMT
anon: Thank you. To this day (9 years ago), I've NEVER fully discussed the entire rape to anyone other than my Gynecologist (and I was too embarrassed to explain in detail the ENTIRE nightmare which lasted over 5 hours!). It was horrible to live through it and I doubted I'd even live. RE: Al Franken: I'm disappointed and still surprised. Also very saddened. samiam: Nope, I don't see Bill Clinton that way. He doesn't seem to be the type who thrives on that power. He doesn't seem to need to persude women. He makes people feel like they're the only person in the room (male or female) when he's speaking to you. He's friendly and doesn't seem pervy at ALL to me. I'd guess that he gets tons of women propositioning him. As far as him going astray and cheating on his wife? Sure, I could easily see that, but I don't see him as the type to SEEK these women out; that's all. He's certainly not innocent, but I don't see him in the rapist/abuser category either. bergdorfblonde: I am truly sorry for what happened to you. For Al Franken, to me, the picture says it all. The kiss, and him cramming his tongue down her throat is nasty enough. But that picture, while she's asleep, is beyond creepy and skeevy. Yesterday on CNN a reporter said there was going to be another woman coming out with something to say about Al Franken. I don't know if there has been yet, and we don't know what this person might have to say. But I don't believe with his boldness that this woman is the only one. As for Bill Clinton, to me there were too many women to come forward for the allegations to be untrue. It's not about the sex with these men, it's about the power. We'll have to agree to disagree on him. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 10:29:25 GMT
Well, I didn't finish reading the thread before responding, and now see a second woman has come out.
Sigh.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Nov 17, 2017 12:43:20 GMT
Mr. President, I await your accompanying tweet about Mr. Moore. please don't hold your breath AmeliaBloomer , we'd miss you 'round here. I can't believe people on his twitter are demanding Franken be jailed or removed and then support Trump. Sick minds. |
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Post by pondrunner on Nov 17, 2017 13:39:08 GMT
How is the distinction between a pig and a man who behaved piggishly useful at all? Good guy who did a dumbass thing? Why does that even need to be said? He was not acting as a good guy when he put his hands on a sleeping person and smiled for the camera, he was doing something very wrong. Perhaps in another context he is in fact a good person but if you are willing to caption that photo "good guy doing a dumb thing" you are part of the problem. Well, no. I'm not. I'm acknowledging that if he's not a chronic/repeat offender who sees nothing wrong with how he behaved, there's the potential there for him to be rehabilitated. The reality is, and forgive me, because I'm going to get into theory here - but if you look at Ecological Systems Theory, we are products not only of the individual cultures (i.e. our families) and the immediate surrounding systems we exist in, we're also part of a broader culture. We live in capitalist patriarchy. No person is going to completely escape the impact of that. All men, on some level have at least a little of this crap in them. It's how they're socialized. And again - in this context I don't mean socialized in the sense of 'their parents raised them that way.' I mean, within the wider society they grow up in, men & women are exposed to things which on some level - even unconsciously - has to impact them. It takes concerted, deliberate effort to be deprogrammed from it. And yes, I'm admitting that I'm not immune to it. Hell, I'm sitting here typing and I'm in a stupid amount of pain in my hip from (a hip that in theory doctors would tell you I shouldn't be able to feel) from an old break that didn't heal correctly and I'm reluctant to make a doctor's appointment because I'm nervous she's going to tell me she wants me to have the surgery to correct it & I'm leery of the impact the time off will have on my career going into an election in October of 2018. Because I've got a disability & I've 'learned' that I have to be twice as strong & never let anyone see me having a medical issue, or I'll immediately get lumped in with those 'other' disabled folks who can't hold onto a job. That is how capitalist patriarchy works. Nay, how it thrives. By teaching us to see everyone/every situation as a competition, by objectifying people, and a whole lot of other crap that makes it really tough for humans to connect. So no. I'm not quite ready to write Al Franken off just yet. Enculturation as a mitigating factor is a very dangerous argument to make when you are talking about sexual abuse of women by men in power. |
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Post by jenis40 on Nov 17, 2017 15:05:07 GMT
I stand by my original post that he should step down. If we liberals don’t hold our own accountable, why should we expect Republicans to?
Also, just because Bill Clinton seemingly got a “pass” 25 years ago,doesn’t mean either party just gets to sweep current candidates problems under the rug today. Whataboutism is hypocrisy and I’m damn tired of hypocrites.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by suzastampin on Nov 17, 2017 15:16:34 GMT
He is just disgusting. He needs to step down. Not until the Gropper in Chief steps down. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 15:48:12 GMT
trump from the video...
“I did try & f%#k her. She was married. I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. I just start kissing them. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything—grab them by the p^%<#y. You can do anything.” Donald Trump #TrumpSexPredator
As far as I’m concerned as long as trump gets to keep his job so does Al.
You don’t get to pick and choose who is going to be held accountable for their inappropriate behavior. It’s all or none. Otherwise this #Meto is for nothing. All the women who came forward it will be for nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 16:32:06 GMT
samiam : I saw the pic and honestly, it could have been part of a skit IMO. If it was indeed something else (even in jest), it was WRONG, clearly!!! The notion of him stcking his tongue down her throat is also disgusting, but again, I find it very hard to believe just because he seems to be so much of an empowering person. If it's true, I'm very sad. I'm glad that he did apologize a few times. The woman is on "The View" and she read a letter that he wrote to her, which sounds heartfelt. I just hope we don't hear more of these accusations against him or I'll be truly untrusting in people I hold in high esteem.
P.S.: OF COURSE I know it's all about power and not sex!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 17:31:28 GMT
And yes, I'm admitting that I'm not immune to it. Hell, I'm sitting here typing and I'm in a stupid amount of pain in my hip from (a hip that in theory doctors would tell you I shouldn't be able to feel) from an old break that didn't heal correctly and I'm reluctant to make a doctor's appointment because I'm nervous she's going to tell me she wants me to have the surgery to correct it & I'm leery of the impact the time off will have on my career going into an election in October of 2018. Because I've got a disability & I've 'learned' that I have to be twice as strong & never let anyone see me having a medical issue, or I'll immediately get lumped in with those 'other' disabled folks who can't hold onto a job.
cycworker : I'm so sorry for your pain and for what you're going through. I'm in a similar situation (needing major surgery and knowing it'll take about 1 year to recover). The impact on your career and financial stability is quite scary when that happens. I'm already on disability but to take off for that long (from doing the driving, bill-paying, phonecall appts, housework....) is depressing. DH has cancer and he comes first. I'll figure it all out, as you will too. Hope it goes better than we're both expecting!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 19:44:23 GMT
samiam : I saw the pic and honestly, it could have been part of a skit IMO. If it was indeed something else (even in jest), it was WRONG, clearly!!! Sadly, it wasn't a skit, he said it was a stupid joke. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 20:26:04 GMT
Okay, a stupid joke........ Think back to SNL..... So many men and women joke around like this (WITHOUT ACTUALLY TOUCHING) and it's crude and now we all are aware of how wrong it is, but that alone is not shocking to me, especially since he was a comedian and a comedy writer. I'm definitely not defending abuse in any way, but something about this doesn't seem to be real sexual abuse; just a bad joke gone wrong. The kiss? I can't explain that one........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 20:38:00 GMT
Second woman comes forward with bombshell harassment allegations against Senator Al Franken Rare CARLIN BECKER Hours after sports commentator Leeann Tweeden accused Democratic Senator Al Franken of groping and kissing her without her consent, another woman is stepping forward with harrowing claims about the man. “Yes, it’s true. I was stalked and harassed by Al Franken,” Media Equalizer and Media Equality Project Co-Founder Melanie Morgan tweeted on Thursday. “I will have details @mediaequalizer shortly.” She then recounted her story, saying she appeared on a 2000 episode of ABC’s late night show Politically Incorrect alongside Franken, William Baldwin, and then-Colorado Lt. Governor Joe Rogers. “I was invited and unaware of who his guests were going to be that night. I’ve since learned that though few know this, Al Franken was actually a writer for the show,” Morgan said. “I made a statement about the budget numbers, Franken challenged me, I challenged him back. It was about spending priorities, actually just a mundane discussion. But he obsessed over it.” After the show, he reportedly wouldn’t leave her alone: He approached me backstage, angrily called me out on those numbers and insisted he would prove he was right. He wouldn’t leave me alone, he kept following me. As a woman, his presence and proximity to me felt very threatening and intimidating. I didn’t realize his creepy behavior after the show meant it would continue in the days to come. He approached Carol, the show’s producer and demanded my home phone number, which was a clear violation of network protocol. I had thought that was the end of the story and was shocked when he started calling my home, badgering me repeatedly. I became fearful and called Carol to complain and asked her to tell him to back off. But he made another call after that. I thought that he might end up stalking me at my home in Northern California, it was that bad. By the third phone call I was outraged and terrified, as he is really disturbed. www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/16/second-woman-comes-forward-with-bombshell-harassment-allegations-against-senator-al-franken/23280102/ Okay, and AGAIN I'm going to defend him! While this is 100% wrong on his behalf, there is nothing SEXUAL about it. He should NOT have gotten her personal # and definitely should NOT have called her. It should have ended with Carol not giving out the #. It should have ended with someone telling him that this was going over the top, and that he should have dropped it. If he truly wanted to debate this further, he should have found a healthy way to continue the debate; not harass the person he's trying to debate with. THAT IS WRONG. But again I'll say that I don't see a sexual predator or abuser in these 2 instances. I see a comedian, a comedy writer, a very intelligent man who likes to have debates. I don't see him belittling people or sexually abusing them. That being said, it still is very wrong for him to continue this debate with this woman when she clearly wanted to be left alone. I'm hoping it didn't go further than this with anyone else.  |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556
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Post by cycworker on Nov 17, 2017 21:16:50 GMT
Well, no. I'm not. I'm acknowledging that if he's not a chronic/repeat offender who sees nothing wrong with how he behaved, there's the potential there for him to be rehabilitated. The reality is, and forgive me, because I'm going to get into theory here - but if you look at Ecological Systems Theory, we are products not only of the individual cultures (i.e. our families) and the immediate surrounding systems we exist in, we're also part of a broader culture. We live in capitalist patriarchy. No person is going to completely escape the impact of that. All men, on some level have at least a little of this crap in them. It's how they're socialized. And again - in this context I don't mean socialized in the sense of 'their parents raised them that way.' I mean, within the wider society they grow up in, men & women are exposed to things which on some level - even unconsciously - has to impact them. It takes concerted, deliberate effort to be deprogrammed from it. And yes, I'm admitting that I'm not immune to it. Hell, I'm sitting here typing and I'm in a stupid amount of pain in my hip from (a hip that in theory doctors would tell you I shouldn't be able to feel) from an old break that didn't heal correctly and I'm reluctant to make a doctor's appointment because I'm nervous she's going to tell me she wants me to have the surgery to correct it & I'm leery of the impact the time off will have on my career going into an election in October of 2018. Because I've got a disability & I've 'learned' that I have to be twice as strong & never let anyone see me having a medical issue, or I'll immediately get lumped in with those 'other' disabled folks who can't hold onto a job. That is how capitalist patriarchy works. Nay, how it thrives. By teaching us to see everyone/every situation as a competition, by objectifying people, and a whole lot of other crap that makes it really tough for humans to connect. So no. I'm not quite ready to write Al Franken off just yet. Enculturation as a mitigating factor is a very dangerous argument to make when you are talking about sexual abuse of women by men in power. Depends. It's dangerous & foolhardy to argue that enculturation makes it ok, which isn't what I'm doing. I'm simply stating that it plays a part in the whole system that allows it (sexism & misogyny & the behaviours that coincide with them) to be perpetuated. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,137
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Post by Olan on Nov 17, 2017 21:29:27 GMT
Second woman comes forward with bombshell harassment allegations against Senator Al Franken Rare CARLIN BECKER Hours after sports commentator Leeann Tweeden accused Democratic Senator Al Franken of groping and kissing her without her consent, another woman is stepping forward with harrowing claims about the man. “Yes, it’s true. I was stalked and harassed by Al Franken,” Media Equalizer and Media Equality Project Co-Founder Melanie Morgan tweeted on Thursday. “I will have details @mediaequalizer shortly.” She then recounted her story, saying she appeared on a 2000 episode of ABC’s late night show Politically Incorrect alongside Franken, William Baldwin, and then-Colorado Lt. Governor Joe Rogers. “I was invited and unaware of who his guests were going to be that night. I’ve since learned that though few know this, Al Franken was actually a writer for the show,” Morgan said. “I made a statement about the budget numbers, Franken challenged me, I challenged him back. It was about spending priorities, actually just a mundane discussion. But he obsessed over it.” After the show, he reportedly wouldn’t leave her alone: He approached me backstage, angrily called me out on those numbers and insisted he would prove he was right. He wouldn’t leave me alone, he kept following me. As a woman, his presence and proximity to me felt very threatening and intimidating. I didn’t realize his creepy behavior after the show meant it would continue in the days to come. He approached Carol, the show’s producer and demanded my home phone number, which was a clear violation of network protocol. I had thought that was the end of the story and was shocked when he started calling my home, badgering me repeatedly. I became fearful and called Carol to complain and asked her to tell him to back off. But he made another call after that. I thought that he might end up stalking me at my home in Northern California, it was that bad. By the third phone call I was outraged and terrified, as he is really disturbed. www.aol.com/article/news/2017/11/16/second-woman-comes-forward-with-bombshell-harassment-allegations-against-senator-al-franken/23280102/ Okay, and AGAIN I'm going to defend him! While this is 100% wrong on his behalf, there is nothing SEXUAL about it. He should NOT have gotten her personal # and definitely should NOT have called her. It should have ended with Carol not giving out the #. It should have ended with someone telling him that this was going over the top, and that he should have dropped it. If he truly wanted to debate this further, he should have found a healthy way to continue the debate; not harass the person he's trying to debate with. THAT IS WRONG. But again I'll say that I don't see a sexual predator or abuser in these 2 instances. I see a comedian, a comedy writer, a very intelligent man who likes to have debates. I don't see him belittling people or sexually abusing them. That being said, it still is very wrong for him to continue this debate with this woman when she clearly wanted to be left alone. I'm hoping it didn't go further than this with anyone else. I just can't wrap my head around how a woman could feel the way you feel about sexual assault and or men abusing their authoritative powers. It really sucks all the hope out of any real female liberation movements. You guys keep excusing the behavior not considering the many women society are reluctant to call victims. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 21:34:43 GMT
Olan: Unless I hear more, I just cannot fathom that he's a true abuser. The 1st instance seemed to be more of a poor joke. We don't know that she was even really GROPED or it was simulated for a joke photo-op (still, it was in poor taste). The kiss with the tongue? I can't explain that. The 2nd instance was a debate he wanted badly to continue. It didn't appear to be sexual, just too eager to finish talking to her, despite finding her private # to talk to her. IT WAS WRONG but I don't put it in the same class as a real sexual abuse. Nope.
If these 2 women really felt like victims, then I'd want to hear much more about their scenarios--I'm not doubting their motives, just their perspective. And, again, this is more of a situation of a man being aggressive and not necessarily sexual or pervy IMO. He just doesn't fit the M.O., IMO.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 17, 2017 21:42:44 GMT
I just don't know... At least he owned it right away. Still a bad situation for him. I have mixed feelings as well. From interviews with congresswomen, it seems that there are several men in congress who are habitual offenders in regards to being sexually Inappropriate, even though presently they aren't saying names. I would be curious to know how he acts now and in that setting. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Nov 17, 2017 21:54:36 GMT
Olan: Unless I hear more, I just cannot fathom that he's a true abuser. The 1st instance seemed to be more of a poor joke. We don't know that she was even really GROPED or it was simulated for a joke photo-op (still, it was in poor taste). The kiss with the tongue? I can't explain that. The 2nd instance was a debate he wanted badly to continue. It didn't appear to be sexual, just too eager to finish talking to her, despite finding her private # to talk to her. IT WAS WRONG but I don't put it in the same class as a real sexual abuse. Nope. If these 2 women really felt like victims, then I'd want to hear much more about their scenarios-- I'm not doubting their motives, just their perspective. And, again, this is more of a situation of a man being aggressive and not necessarily sexual or pervy IMO. He just doesn't fit the M.O., IMO. You shouldn't. Its unfair. Its dangerous. Its also why many instances of abuse/rape go unreported. Sexual predators bank on people feeling the way you do. She said he forced his tongue in her mouth. We should believe her. We see the photo where she is clearly asleep and he is pretending to grope her. She reports feeling humiliated by it after the fact. If you don't believe her "perspective" why believe Al is an "intelligent guy"? |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 17, 2017 21:56:14 GMT
I just don't know... At least he owned it right away. Still a bad situation for him. I have mixed feelings as well. From interviews with congresswomen, it seems that there are several men in congress who are habitual offenders in regards to being sexually Inappropriate, even though presently they aren't saying names. I would be curious to know how he acts now and in that setting. I had a friend who worked in DC several years ago - there was a word of mouth list given to new staff/aids of the congresspeople to avoid being alone with - I doubt much has changed since then. I'll also say the idea that intelligence precludes sexual harassment is utterly false. I'll also say if you think you know a public person based on their public persona you're utterly fooling yourself. ETA my second point was directed at @bergdorfblonde not you @iamkristin16 - sorry for including it in your post I was quoting. |
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But that? Calling her at home like that and badgering her because of an argument about politics? That's creepy, out of line & downright abusive. 
