eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
|
Post by eleezybeth on Jan 8, 2018 2:36:49 GMT
If you said you would try, then try. Give it 110% so in a few months you can look back and say, Yes, yes I did give him a chance. That's going to need to start with a conversation about how this IS different for you and how his reaction IS going to frame the giving of chances. He is right, he can't fix the past anymore than you can. Decide if you want to move forward and be honest with him. Just because he asked for a chance doesn't mean you have to give it to him if you are certain that you are done. I'm going to guess that there isn't any apology big enough to erase the betrayal and indifference you are actually feeling. Be honest to yourself about that. How much are you really willing to put into it. If it is more than you can bear - there is your answer.
It is really difficult to manage feelings of shame, and fear. If you've always got to hide behind alcohol or solitude to deal with it and now both of those are gone, it might just be overwhelming. If you don't know how to deal with it, I'm going to guess that shutting down the conversation is the best way to deal with it sober. I don't say that to give him an excuse but just a little understanding that he has feelings and emotions as well. Counseling would help you both figure that out. I'd encourage him to figure out a sober support plan that includes family therapy. Betterhelp is an online resource I can vouch for. There are a few others like Teledoc.
|
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,156
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jan 8, 2018 3:31:18 GMT
Counseling might help. Dating might help. I mean him actually taking interest in you and trying to enjoy time spent with you. But what you mostlyt need to ‘move forward’ is to rebuild trust between you two. That’s why you can’t let go and just go forward. I’ll expkain. While my ex wasn’t an alcoholic, it wasn’t when he cheated that our marriage slowly ended it was when he simply didn’t/couldn’t change anything in his actions to earn my trust back. I gave him plenty of time and plenty of effort on my part. I jumped thru hoop after hoop of what HE wanted ME to change so he wouldn’t cheat again. But he didn’t change one single thing for me. He didn’t become more open or honest. He didn’t share anything of himself with me, he wouldn’t even talk about his workday with me. He just flat out refused or simply couldn’t do anything to earn my trust back. That is why you can’t move forward because he hasn’t earned your trust back yet. Alcoholism is a betrayal of sorts and now you need to rebuild the trust in which your feelings were based. Try counseling. Even if you go to a therapist/counselor yourself to see what rebuilding your trust looks like to you and then communicate to him what that is. Until that starts to happen you won’t let go and your marriage won’t be repaired. I agree with so much of this. He's expecting things to change with you because he says he's changed. After all these years, it's way too soon for you to trust that much. Someone once told me that addiction is selfish and recovery is also selfish, maybe even more so. I think there's some truth to that. So he spent his time drinking, doing as he pleased, ignoring you and your needs. Now he's decided to make changes and is expecting you to change yourself because that works for him. He needs to make changes to himself, prove himself and continue to prove that these changes he's making are going to be lifelong changes! I'd consider trying Al-anon and/or some therapy as soon as you can work it in. Having someone to talk to who understands where you are at will be a good thing for you. As far as he goes, i'd have a frank talk with him and tell him while you're willing to give him a chance to change, he needs to understand that even if you don't bring the past up, he can't expect immediate changes/trust after all the years. He really needs to focus on himself and making sure he makes the necessary changes to himself and stop pressuring you to make changes. |
|
PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691 
|
Post by PrettyInPeank on Jan 8, 2018 3:37:46 GMT
Since therapy isn't an option at the moment, can you join a message board of other spouses of recovering addicts? People who can really understand what you're going through? But also what to expect in the long-run?
|
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 3:47:21 GMT
librarylady "Whatever happens, it won't be overnight results...it took awhile to get to this place, so it will take awhile to recover from it. " so true, with so many areas of our lives isn't it. Thanks for your words. christine58 yes he is going to AA. Al-anon and/or counseling are both an hour from me. Al-anon would be easier since I wouldn't have to make an appointment and pay like a counselor. Like I said right now with it being winter. cindyupnorth I'm glad things are working out for you and your DH. I might PM you. jeremysgirl everyone around me knows that he doesn't do anything with us. They don't know how bad the drinking is. I had finally told my sister that our marriage was going to be over etc. Coming here is so helpful because it's hard to talk to family and friends and not feel like you are bad mouthing your spouse. Plus it changes their opinion of him from your perspective and if you stay together they'll always know all the things. PrettyInPeank peabay In regards to what was the beginning like, why did we fall in love? We've been together since I was 17. So as far as who were we before? Kids, lol! First love. Didn't ask the hard questions or any, I didn't know we were supposed to do that. janskylar sounds like you are in a good place now, good for you. Thanks for your advice. scrapngranny true, I'm in charge of the next phase of my life. I should have been in charge of the last bit but...moving forward. Spongemom Scrappants I don't know either if I want to be in the marriage. I guess that's what I'm supposed to figure out, if I want to be with a sober DH. hop2 thanks for your thoughts. 6 weeks isn't enough time to earn trust. Nothing stressful has happened for him to even have to deal with, will he turn to a drink? At least if it had been months or a year and faced all kinds of stresses I'll knew by then he's been successful. (not that you ever conquer it but KWIM) cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives.
|
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 3:51:39 GMT
... But he's pushing for more, thinks that things should be better or moving forward faster. '.... I think this is totally unrealistic and would bluntly tell him so. If things had deteriorated enough for you to decide to divorce, the BEST he should hope for is an opportunity to start OVER. He can't expect you to "get over" 20 years of neglect and magically remember the good parts. I think a second chance is only possible if you can look at him right now and think he's someone you'd like to get to know, because that's essentially what you'd be doing. If he's not someone you would choose to date, he's not someone you can rebuild a marriage with KWIM? I don't know if I'd be able to truly forgive the past personally, and I'm sure counseling etc might help - but I'd say if he's not willing to rebuild the relationship from scratch, there's no hope of letting go and making a good marriage. This I think is the answer I'm afraid of saying out loud. And I don't think I can truly forgive the past. I guess that's what the whole point of the original post was. Can you, the general you, how do you? |
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 8, 2018 3:53:26 GMT
I have been in a super low point in my marriage before and I was contemplating a separation and I came across a marriage counselor's blog who advised to think about your life in the future and what would make you happier: d o you want a relationship with a different person or a different relationship with the same person? ^^^ very thought provoking; I've never heard it put quite like that. thank you for posting it. eta: I don't know a lot about forgiveness from a philosophical sense, or what the exact definition of it is, but in my opinion forgiving someone for something that's happened doesn't mean you're saying that you're somehow okay with what happened... I look at it as 'in spite of what happened, you're willing to put it behind you for the sake of a better / different future.' I'm not a practicing Christian, though-- the Christian definition of forgiveness might be different. |
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 4:07:01 GMT
If you said you would try, then try. Give it 110% so in a few months you can look back and say, Yes, yes I did give him a chance. That's going to need to start with a conversation about how this IS different for you and how his reaction IS going to frame the giving of chances. He is right, he can't fix the past anymore than you can. Decide if you want to move forward and be honest with him. Just because he asked for a chance doesn't mean you have to give it to him if you are certain that you are done. I'm going to guess that there isn't any apology big enough to erase the betrayal and indifference you are actually feeling. Be honest to yourself about that. How much are you really willing to put into it. If it is more than you can bear - there is your answer. It is really difficult to manage feelings of shame, and fear. I f you've always got to hide behind alcohol or solitude to deal with it and now both of those are gone, it might just be overwhelming. If you don't know how to deal with it, I'm going to guess that shutting down the conversation is the best way to deal with it sober. I don't say that to give him an excuse but just a little understanding that he has feelings and emotions as well. Counseling would help you both figure that out. I'd encourage him to figure out a sober support plan that includes family therapy. Betterhelp is an online resource I can vouch for. There are a few others like Teledoc. Thanks eleezybeth your post was helpful. I agree with so much of this. He's expecting things to change with you because he says he's changed. After all these years, it's way too soon for you to trust that much. Someone once told me that addiction is selfish and recovery is also selfish, maybe even more so. I think there's some truth to that. So he spent his time drinking, doing as he pleased, ignoring you and your needs. Now he's decided to make changes and is expecting you to change yourself because that works for him. He needs to make changes to himself, prove himself and continue to prove that these changes he's making are going to be lifelong changes! I'd consider trying Al-anon and/or some therapy as soon as you can work it in. Having someone to talk to who understands where you are at will be a good thing for you. As far as he goes, i'd have a frank talk with him and tell him while you're willing to give him a chance to change, he needs to understand that even if you don't bring the past up, he can't expect immediate changes/trust after all the years. He really needs to focus on himself and making sure he makes the necessary changes to himself and stop pressuring you to make changes. Yes, he wants to talk all the time, analyzes everything I do. I left the living room to go the bedroom to read and he thinks I'm mad at him and asks what's wrong and then seems pouty because I say nothing. I'm used to being alone if I want to read, I read. No big deal. If I fall asleep in bed and don't get up to say goodnight, I'm not bad, I"m lazy. I don't bring up the past but when he wants to talk about deeper things and probes me it's going to come up. Then he gets upset saying if I can't let it go, or he can't change what happened etc. It was such a huge part of our lives, it was our (his and mine) lives for that's all it was for years and years so of course it's there and is going to get brought up. I think it's as much him dealing with it than me. He doesn't want to be reminded what an absent husband and father he's been for years. @likecarrots your advice goes good here, thanks. Funnily I had kind of thought I had made some peace with it all when I thought it was over. I had distanced myself from him. I used to call and ask when he was coming home, couldn't sleep well. That stopped years ago. I slept, until he got home. I didn't call and ask, I didn't care. Now that we are supposed to be working it out I'm not sure where he fits in my life, since he's never really been in. PrettyInPeank I'm going to go to counseling or Al-anon as soon as possible. Hopefully it will be possible even a few times in the next few months. |
|
Mary Kay Lady
Pearl Clutcher
PeaNut 367,913 Refupea number 1,638
Posts: 3,116
|
Post by Mary Kay Lady on Jan 8, 2018 4:42:19 GMT
Mary Kay Lady neglect, indifferent yes those are how I feel. That's why I said we are being nice roomates now because he isn't angry so we can make small talk but it's not much more than that yet. I guess the biggest favour they can do for us, if it's going to end, is teach us how to get along without them. I can do everything. He's the one that doesn't know about insurance and taxes and who to call for what and million other things. I guess that's maybe why I'm having a hard time sharing or turning to him as much as he wants, I was always alone, every single day. And I learned to like it. I don't know what our outcome will be, but it doesn't scare me either way. I can completely relate to your post. I feel the same way. I was very much in love with my estranged husband at one time. It's very hard to put behind you the years of being ignored and taken for granted. You, and you alone are the only one who can decide what is best in this situation. No one will judge you or find fault with you regardless of your decision. One of the things that helped me to decide to move on was something that my counselor shared with me. Most people who struggle with addiction relapse and have to go through several rounds of rehab. Honestly, I just don't have the emotional strength to go through that. (((HUGS))) to you as you work through this and make choices that will determine what is best for yourself and your family. |
|
|
|
Post by Lexica on Jan 8, 2018 5:34:29 GMT
You have had to learn to live your life apart from him for the last 20 years, and it isn't fair that he demand you start including him now that he has decided to get sober. And just because you agreed to try again with him, doesn't mean it has to start immediately. You gave him 20 years of waiting around. Surely he can give you a few years to allow you to decide what you want for yourself.
If I were in your shoes, I think I would need to continue with the separation. Just to have some time to myself to decide what I want out of the rest of my life. And he would be able to fully focus on his sobriety during this time as well. Also, I would feel that I don't really know the person he is right now. I absolutely could not just conjure up romantic feelings toward him because of all that I had been through and buried over the years. After having sufficient time to myself, I would then need to date him again to see if any of the original feelings would come back - and this would have to be without any expectations or demands that I must feel a certain way towards him by a certain time.
My parents divorced when I was a child due to my father being an alcoholic. They were divorced for about 6 years before they began dating again. And during this time of dating and getting to know each other when my father was sober, she still wouldn't let him spend the night. She didn't want to confuse my sisters and I. They eventually remarried and remained extremely happy for the remainder of their lives. I attribute this to the fact that Dad was sober and went out of his way to show my mom every single day that he loved her and appreciated everything she had ever done for him. They were together 24/7 and very much in love.
My dad was a very different father to me as well. I didn't really know him during my childhood because he wasn't really home much. And when he was home, I was afraid of him. Mom made sure we were never left alone with him because he wasn't responsible enough and we felt it. After they remarried, I got to know my father on such a different level. He was funny, incredibly smart, loving, and a really good person. I'm so grateful that I got to know that side of him.
I hope you know that you are in the position to decide what you want for your future, regardless of what you promised or how much he pressures you. You need time to heal. You need time to rediscover each other. That absolutely cannot be forced.
|
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556
|
Post by cycworker on Jan 8, 2018 5:54:32 GMT
If you said you would try, then try. Give it 110% so in a few months you can look back and say, Yes, yes I did give him a chance. That's going to need to start with a conversation about how this IS different for you and how his reaction IS going to frame the giving of chances. He is right, he can't fix the past anymore than you can. Decide if you want to move forward and be honest with him. Just because he asked for a chance doesn't mean you have to give it to him if you are certain that you are done. I'm going to guess that there isn't any apology big enough to erase the betrayal and indifference you are actually feeling. Be honest to yourself about that. How much are you really willing to put into it. If it is more than you can bear - there is your answer. It is really difficult to manage feelings of shame, and fear. I f you've always got to hide behind alcohol or solitude to deal with it and now both of those are gone, it might just be overwhelming. If you don't know how to deal with it, I'm going to guess that shutting down the conversation is the best way to deal with it sober. I don't say that to give him an excuse but just a little understanding that he has feelings and emotions as well. Counseling would help you both figure that out. I'd encourage him to figure out a sober support plan that includes family therapy. Betterhelp is an online resource I can vouch for. There are a few others like Teledoc. Thanks eleezybeth your post was helpful. I agree with so much of this. He's expecting things to change with you because he says he's changed. After all these years, it's way too soon for you to trust that much. Someone once told me that addiction is selfish and recovery is also selfish, maybe even more so. I think there's some truth to that. So he spent his time drinking, doing as he pleased, ignoring you and your needs. Now he's decided to make changes and is expecting you to change yourself because that works for him. He needs to make changes to himself, prove himself and continue to prove that these changes he's making are going to be lifelong changes! I'd consider trying Al-anon and/or some therapy as soon as you can work it in. Having someone to talk to who understands where you are at will be a good thing for you. As far as he goes, i'd have a frank talk with him and tell him while you're willing to give him a chance to change, he needs to understand that even if you don't bring the past up, he can't expect immediate changes/trust after all the years. He really needs to focus on himself and making sure he makes the necessary changes to himself and stop pressuring you to make changes. Yes, he wants to talk all the time, analyzes everything I do. I left the living room to go the bedroom to read and he thinks I'm mad at him and asks what's wrong and then seems pouty because I say nothing. I'm used to being alone if I want to read, I read. No big deal. If I fall asleep in bed and don't get up to say goodnight, I'm not bad, I"m lazy. I don't bring up the past but when he wants to talk about deeper things and probes me it's going to come up. Then he gets upset saying if I can't let it go, or he can't change what happened etc. It was such a huge part of our lives, it was our (his and mine) lives for that's all it was for years and years so of course it's there and is going to get brought up. I think it's as much him dealing with it than me. He doesn't want to be reminded what an absent husband and father he's been for years. @likecarrots your advice goes good here, thanks. Funnily I had kind of thought I had made some peace with it all when I thought it was over. I had distanced myself from him. I used to call and ask when he was coming home, couldn't sleep well. That stopped years ago. I slept, until he got home. I didn't call and ask, I didn't care. Now that we are supposed to be working it out I'm not sure where he fits in my life, since he's never really been in. PrettyInPeank I'm going to go to counseling or Al-anon as soon as possible. Hopefully it will be possible even a few times in the next few months. I really hope you'll look further at finding a counsellor you can work with online. I'm also glad to see you saying you're going to PM cindyupnorth. I certainly respect that it's tough to switch gears and start including him in our life after he's been absent for so long. \ I know what I want to say & I'm trying to figure out the gentlest way to say... I ask your forgiveness in advance if I get it wrong. First - as to forgiveness: as a Christian, in my church I've been taught that forgiveness simply means, 'giving up the right to get even.' Second - he needs to continue to work on his feelings of guilt around his absenteeism from your marriage & your family. And yes, I guess I do think that it would be good if you would be gentle with him & show some understanding... he's lost out, too. Alcoholism is a disease. You have both been hurt by it. Third - I'm a big believer in 'fake it until you make it.' If you act lovingly towards him, you will find the feelings will follow. Don't just leave the room to go read. Maybe cut back on your reading & use that time to spend time with him. Go on walks together. Go on dates. Watch a movie at home together instead of reading. And so on... And last.... the really controversial part of my post: I do think you owe it to him to make a full effort. You made vows. For better and for worse. In sickness & in health. Until death us do part. It's a contract & a commitment. He's trying. You need to do the same. |
|
|
|
Post by cindytred on Jan 8, 2018 8:51:50 GMT
cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. No, I'm not saving money to move out on my own. All my extra money goes to my daughter who is a senior in college. She graduates in May and hopefully will be gainfully employed soon after. But even then I am too old and too close to retirement to be financially independent. I have decided to focus on living a good life despite my drunk husband. I understand how you resent his absence from participating with the family all these years. I do too. I did it all on my own. His wanting to make things right now would be "too little too late". Plus, just because he stops drinking like mine did for 7 years - he can always start again - like mine did. If I could afford it - I would leave in a heartbeat. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:42:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 10:09:57 GMT
You've been alone in your marriage for years, you don't need him and reading between the lines it doesn't sound like you even want him. Stick to the original plan that he moves out. You don't owe him anything after 20 odd years of misery.
|
|
|
|
Post by christine58 on Jan 8, 2018 11:03:04 GMT
But even then I am too old and too close to retirement to be financially independent. I have decided to focus on living a good life despite my drunk husband. I understand how you resent his absence from participating with the family all these years. I do too. I did it all on my own. His wanting to make things right now would be "too little too late". Plus, just because he stops drinking like mine did for 7 years - he can always start again - like mine did. If I could afford it - I would leave in a heartbeat. You are NOT too old to be happy. You are worth better and deserve better. Find a way...I am sure there is one. And last.... the really controversial part of my post: I do think you owe it to him to make a full effort. You made vows. For better and for worse. In sickness & in health. Until death us do part. It's a contract & a commitment. He's trying. You need to do the same. Seriously??? So if someone is being abused "it's a contract and commitment" That's a big fat no. Your comments never cease to amaze me. You obviously have no experience in this area..none |
|
RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,077
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
|
Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jan 8, 2018 11:49:28 GMT
Thanks eleezybeth your post was helpful. Yes, he wants to talk all the time, analyzes everything I do. I left the living room to go the bedroom to read and he thinks I'm mad at him and asks what's wrong and then seems pouty because I say nothing. I'm used to being alone if I want to read, I read. No big deal. If I fall asleep in bed and don't get up to say goodnight, I'm not bad, I"m lazy. I don't bring up the past but when he wants to talk about deeper things and probes me it's going to come up. Then he gets upset saying if I can't let it go, or he can't change what happened etc. It was such a huge part of our lives, it was our (his and mine) lives for that's all it was for years and years so of course it's there and is going to get brought up. I think it's as much him dealing with it than me. He doesn't want to be reminded what an absent husband and father he's been for years. @likecarrots your advice goes good here, thanks. Funnily I had kind of thought I had made some peace with it all when I thought it was over. I had distanced myself from him. I used to call and ask when he was coming home, couldn't sleep well. That stopped years ago. I slept, until he got home. I didn't call and ask, I didn't care. Now that we are supposed to be working it out I'm not sure where he fits in my life, since he's never really been in. PrettyInPeank I'm going to go to counseling or Al-anon as soon as possible. Hopefully it will be possible even a few times in the next few months. I really hope you'll look further at finding a counsellor you can work with online. I'm also glad to see you saying you're going to PM cindyupnorth. I certainly respect that it's tough to switch gears and start including him in our life after he's been absent for so long. \ I know what I want to say & I'm trying to figure out the gentlest way to say... I ask your forgiveness in advance if I get it wrong. First - as to forgiveness: as a Christian, in my church I've been taught that forgiveness simply means, 'giving up the right to get even.' Second - he needs to continue to work on his feelings of guilt around his absenteeism from your marriage & your family. And yes, I guess I do think that it would be good if you would be gentle with him & show some understanding... he's lost out, too. Alcoholism is a disease. You have both been hurt by it. Third - I'm a big believer in 'fake it until you make it.' If you act lovingly towards him, you will find the feelings will follow. Don't just leave the room to go read. Maybe cut back on your reading & use that time to spend time with him. Go on walks together. Go on dates. Watch a movie at home together instead of reading. And so on...And last.... the really controversial part of my post: I do think you owe it to him to make a full effort. You made vows. For better and for worse. In sickness & in health. Until death us do part. It's a contract & a commitment. He's trying. You need to do the same.  The part I changed to bold, is what I was going to post. If you are committed to trying, then you have to go further than you've been used to going. You've had some amazing long-term advice, but it's the little "now" things that will help to build your relationship. Initiate affection. It doesn't have to be intimate yet, but a smile, a touch on the hand when you talk, eye-contact, a cuddle. Like training a dog or a child - give him rewards for good behaviour. If he shows he wants to spend time with you, smile, ask what he wants to do. Think back to how it was when you fell in love, and try to behave in the same way. It won't be the same (to start with - it might develop), but affection is a big ice-breaker. You've got a lot of ice to break - I wish you all the very best. You're amazing to give him a second chance. He's amazing to have made that massive step away from alcohol. Two amazing people deserve the best. |
|
momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,156
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
|
Post by momto4kiddos on Jan 8, 2018 12:34:20 GMT
You have had to learn to live your life apart from him for the last 20 years, and it isn't fair that he demand you start including him now that he has decided to get sober. And just because you agreed to try again with him, doesn't mean it has to start immediately. You gave him 20 years of waiting around. Surely he can give you a few years to allow you to decide what you want for yourself. If I were in your shoes, I think I would need to continue with the separation. Just to have some time to myself to decide what I want out of the rest of my life. And he would be able to fully focus on his sobriety during this time as well. Also, I would feel that I don't really know the person he is right now. I absolutely could not just conjure up romantic feelings toward him because of all that I had been through and buried over the years. After having sufficient time to myself, I would then need to date him again to see if any of the original feelings would come back - and this would have to be without any expectations or demands that I must feel a certain way towards him by a certain time. My parents divorced when I was a child due to my father being an alcoholic. They were divorced for about 6 years before they began dating again. And during this time of dating and getting to know each other when my father was sober, she still wouldn't let him spend the night. She didn't want to confuse my sisters and I. They eventually remarried and remained extremely happy for the remainder of their lives. I attribute this to the fact that Dad was sober and went out of his way to show my mom every single day that he loved her and appreciated everything she had ever done for him. They were together 24/7 and very much in love. My dad was a very different father to me as well. I didn't really know him during my childhood because he wasn't really home much. And when he was home, I was afraid of him. Mom made sure we were never left alone with him because he wasn't responsible enough and we felt it. After they remarried, I got to know my father on such a different level. He was funny, incredibly smart, loving, and a really good person. I'm so grateful that I got to know that side of him. I hope you know that you are in the position to decide what you want for your future, regardless of what you promised or how much he pressures you. You need time to heal. You need time to rediscover each other. That absolutely cannot be forced. This is such a great post, Lexica's points are good. You have learned to live your life separate. Now you're supposed to change that because he's changing again and wants you to also. He really needs to prove himself and he really needs to slow it down so you can get to know each other. You don't know who he is these days and I highly doubt he knows who you are. Lexica's story certainly proves it's possible, but I do think you need to back way up and almost start again. You need to get to know each other. |
|
moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,381
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
|
Post by moodyblue on Jan 8, 2018 14:19:08 GMT
cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. No, I'm not saving money to move out on my own. All my extra money goes to my daughter who is a senior in college. She graduates in May and hopefully will be gainfully employed soon after. But even then I am too old and too close to retirement to be financially independent. I have decided to focus on living a good life despite my drunk husband. I understand how you resent his absence from participating with the family all these years. I do too. I did it all on my own. His wanting to make things right now would be "too little too late". Plus, just because he stops drinking like mine did for 7 years - he can always start again - like mine did. If I could afford it - I would leave in a heartbeat. It's your life, and obviously your choice what you do about it. But this makes me very sad. Maybe you'd have to make some shifts in lifestyle, but you are not too old to be financially independent. Your daughter will be graduating and you could be focused on using your money to support yourself, and living a life that will make you happy. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:42:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 14:37:49 GMT
I agree you need some sort of counseling. If you can’t get it in person, find someone who will do face time or that doctor on call that dr Phil advertises where you have sessions by phone.
My ex didn’t drink but was chronically unfaithful. When he had periods of being regretful, he would talk about how I needed to forget the past and live in the present in order for us to move forward, and I actually tried to do that. It’s like pretending a large elephant isn’t sitting beside you eating your popcorn.
I have read that recovered alcoholics miss the excitement of their drinking days. I wonder if that is contributing to him thinking things should be moving faster.
|
|
|
|
Post by quinlove on Jan 8, 2018 15:11:07 GMT
Regarding the poster above, who said you must honor your vows. OMG. Abuse is ok ?? And, just because it's not physical abuse --- emotional abuse scars last forever.
My question is going to sound really stupid. But I want you to examine your real feelings.
How would you feel, what would you do if he started drinking again ?
I'm pretty sure your response would be - oh thank god, I'm out. I knew it. Problem solved. But - would there be a deep, down sorrow for what could have been ? Perhaps your answer lies there.
|
|
MorningPerson
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,579
Location: Central Pennsylvania
|
Post by MorningPerson on Jan 8, 2018 15:37:58 GMT
Finding the answers to these tough questions is so hard, isn't it?
One thing that helps me find clarity is to ask myself what I would hope my daughter might do in the same situation. If you had a daughter who was facing something similar, would you recognize that her husband is a good man who is working hard on fixing a difficult problem, and hope that she would give it one more solid chance before giving up? Or would you tell her "You've had enough. You deserve better. It's time to move on and see what else life has for you."
Whichever answer you would choose, love yourself enough to want the same best life you would want for your child.
|
|
smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,509
Location: MN
|
Post by smcast on Jan 8, 2018 16:48:12 GMT
I've been happily married for going on 27 years but I wouldn't waste one more minute if things got bad. Life is simply too short. but, if you are in a bad situation, a bad life can need long. Trust your instincts Completely disagree with this. Life is too short to throw away 27 years of marriage. IF you both want it. To play devil's advocate, she has been in a marriage on paper only, the way it sounds. Not a fulfilling marriage. What do you want, OP? Sounds to me that you have checked out long ago. I would suggest professional help if you want to find a common ground. |
|
cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556
|
Post by cycworker on Jan 8, 2018 17:10:53 GMT
Crap - I apologize.i was editting my post and took out more than I intended to.
Physical abuse is obviously the exception to what I'm saying re: honouring ones vows / living up to one's commitment.
I simply believe we, as a society, have made divorce a little too easy to obtain. For ME true happiness is found in doing my duty/living up to my commitments/responsibilities.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:42:24 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 17:13:29 GMT
Putting up with something for 20 odd years is hardly not giving something a fair go! There really are no prizes for living in misery.
|
|
|
|
Post by CarefreeSadie on Jan 8, 2018 17:25:08 GMT
I read your post and many things resonated with me. I grew up with a functioning alcoholic who was never there when he was needed. And apparently I married someone who doesn't drink to alcoholic level but still was selfish enough that he had little to do with raising the children unless I pushed him. No Christmas presents, no birthday presents, no anniversary presents......but he wanted a say when something came up even though he never put the effort into anything with his wife or children.....
I went back to college in my 50s and took a bunch of psychology classes which had questions about situations and we had to write a solution to these situations....I was sitting at work one day and reading a question and I thought to myself geez that is us....so I waited until the other half of we came over to the office area and I read that situation to him.....he scoffed and said some not so nice things about the husband in the situation....I calmly pointed out that he did the same things.....he denied it....I brought up situations where he had acted the same as the husband in the question....he finally admitted it and that became the start of him acting like he finally had my back and was part of my family.....it was when we were married for over 30 years. So change is possible but sometimes I do look back and regret the time I spent in a one sided marriage.
I also thought of this meme when I read your post.....Stop asking me to trust you while I'm still coughing up water from the last time you let me drown......you get time to recover from past transgressions perpetrated by your supposedly loving husband, no matter how badly he wants the past to go away. His perception of your marriage might have changed almost overnight but your perception has not and needs time to catch up, he needs to understand that his timeline is not your timeline.
I wish you so much luck in finding your new normal relationship. Hugs!
|
|
|
|
Post by auroraborealis on Jan 8, 2018 17:27:16 GMT
I kind of hate to weigh in as I don't want to give bad advice and I don't know that I am that saavy with this.
The thing that is standing out with me--is that his behavior (with the drinking) all these years has directed the relationship/dynamic you all have now. As in, you have been adapting/adjusting to his behavior (vs. him to yours). Now that he is not drinking, he still wants/needs you to adapt to his behavior/wishes. It sounds like it's kind of all about him (still) for him. For any chance of progress, he needs to adjust his thinking to adapting to you more, not your adapting to his wants. To think you should "change" that fast for him and just start retrusting him because he wants that (for him) shows him limited perspective. He has quite a long way to go to understand the impact his behavior has had on you and the family, and to understand the huge amount of patience he owes you all. This is not a "well I did some work, now you need to" kind of situation. If he really wants to be with you long term, he should be meeting you wherever YOU want. Attempting to rebuild doesn't mean you need to do 50/50 work.
Sometime it concerns me that AA programs are too focused on the addict, making progress for them, moving them forward--and not nearly enough on the people around them it impacts and really making amends and changing whole thinking patterns.
Good luck, and it is OK to continue with the separation either as a means to attempt to start to rebuild, or to rebuild new lives apart. I love the idea for counseling--for yourself, for you both for him to understand his behavior's imact, to understand addict behavior--anything to help YOU on this journey.
|
|
|
|
Post by ladytrisha on Jan 8, 2018 17:28:10 GMT
I have a sister who was an addict and she did NA and AA.
She found God, got healthy and in her mind, all is right with the world. And it is - from HER side of the street. She has worked the steps at least 4 times (your husband is just starting with AA and there's a LOT of work for him to do before he starts spouting off with his rules that you can't bring up the past).
Be aware thought that it's all words for the most part - little accountability because they can't believe we might hold something against them and dare to bring up what they did when they were drunk or high. Some of this might be my sister and her view of her recovery - but it is their journey and we (collectively) are just there to accept them. As long as they are okay in their little world, then everything is fine and we should just accept them without question.
And be prepared for the preaching - suddenly they are experts in what's wrong with YOU and your reaction to them being clean. As happy and proud as I am my sister is clean and sober, nothing has changed to improve a fractured relationship.
|
|
|
|
Post by ladytrisha on Jan 8, 2018 17:31:53 GMT
Sometime it concerns me that AA programs are too focused on the addict, making progress for them, moving them forward--and not nearly enough on the people around them it impacts and really making amends and changing whole thinking patterns. YES - this is my issue with the program as well. I finally asked my sister one day if she ever had to put action with those words she spouted off because it did nothing for US. We don't fit into their box, their recovery, their journey, their steps. |
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 18:08:37 GMT
One of the things that helped me to decide to move on was something that my counselor shared with me. Most people who struggle with addiction relapse and have to go through several rounds of rehab. Honestly, I just don't have the emotional strength to go through that. Relapse, that is scary as hell. And there is no way I have the strength to go through that. If it was drink tonight (one night one time) and start fresh tomorrow, yeah maybe. But if it's start drinking for a period of time, no way. You have had to learn to live your life apart from him for the last 20 years, and it isn't fair that he demand you start including him now that he has decided to get sober. And just because you agreed to try again with him, doesn't mean it has to start immediately. You gave him 20 years of waiting around. Surely he can give you a few years to allow you to decide what you want for yourself. If I were in your shoes, I think I would need to continue with the separation. Just to have some time to myself to decide what I want out of the rest of my life. And he would be able to fully focus on his sobriety during this time as well. Also, I would feel that I don't really know the person he is right now. I absolutely could not just conjure up romantic feelings toward him because of all that I had been through and buried over the years. After having sufficient time to myself, I would then need to date him again to see if any of the original feelings would come back - and this would have to be without any expectations or demands that I must feel a certain way towards him by a certain time. My parents divorced when I was a child due to my father being an alcoholic. They were divorced for about 6 years before they began dating again. And during this time of dating and getting to know each other when my father was sober, she still wouldn't let him spend the night. She didn't want to confuse my sisters and I. They eventually remarried and remained extremely happy for the remainder of their lives. I attribute this to the fact that Dad was sober and went out of his way to show my mom every single day that he loved her and appreciated everything she had ever done for him. They were together 24/7 and very much in love. My dad was a very different father to me as well. I didn't really know him during my childhood because he wasn't really home much. And when he was home, I was afraid of him. Mom made sure we were never left alone with him because he wasn't responsible enough and we felt it. After they remarried, I got to know my father on such a different level. He was funny, incredibly smart, loving, and a really good person. I'm so grateful that I got to know that side of him. I hope you know that you are in the position to decide what you want for your future, regardless of what you promised or how much he pressures you. You need time to heal. You need time to rediscover each other. That absolutely cannot be forced. I think if he moved out, he'd be out of sight out of mind for me. It would be over for sure. He doesn't understand why I don't want to be romantic, he thinks that will help our relationship build and move forward. I think he just wants sex, not romance, he wanted it when we were fighting and on the brink of divorce. That is really great about your parents. I know a couple that has been split up for years (not sure the reason) now that their kids are gone they really seem to get along. She talks about him all the time, she needed help with something, she needed to talk, she didn't know what fridge to buy, she she asked exDH about all that. They seem to be BFFs. I really hope you'll look further at finding a counsellor you can work with online. I'm also glad to see you saying you're going to PM cindyupnorth. I certainly respect that it's tough to switch gears and start including him in our life after he's been absent for so long. \ I know what I want to say & I'm trying to figure out the gentlest way to say... I ask your forgiveness in advance if I get it wrong. First - as to forgiveness: as a Christian, in my church I've been taught that forgiveness simply means, 'giving up the right to get even.' Second - he needs to continue to work on his feelings of guilt around his absenteeism from your marriage & your family. And yes, I guess I do think that it would be good if you would be gentle with him & show some understanding... he's lost out, too. Alcoholism is a disease. You have both been hurt by it. Third - I'm a big believer in 'fake it until you make it.' If you act lovingly towards him, you will find the feelings will follow. Don't just leave the room to go read. Maybe cut back on your reading & use that time to spend time with him. Go on walks together. Go on dates. Watch a movie at home together instead of reading. And so on... And last.... the really controversial part of my post: I do think you owe it to him to make a full effort. You made vows. For better and for worse. In sickness & in health. Until death us do part. It's a contract & a commitment. He's trying. You need to do the same. So 1 out of 10 nights I can't go to the bedroom to read a book without it being a big pout fest by him? I'm at a good part in my book and I want to read for more than a few minutes before bed. I'm not his servant I don't need to sit in the living room and hold his hand all night. He never entertained me in the last 20 years. Really I owe it to him? I begged him for 15 years to come home and see the kids and be with us. I asked him to come with us and do things. I put the effort in for years and years. I finally decided I had had enough and wanted out and he had some epiphany and quit drinking and now I have to put the effort in? I'm trying but it's really hard after years of neglect. You say it's a commitment, well I committed for 20 years, he did nothing. He's trying, yes for 6 weeks. I need to do the same, I did, for 20 years. Regarding the poster above, who said you must honor your vows. OMG. Abuse is ok ?? And, just because it's not physical abuse --- emotional abuse scars last forever. My question is going to sound really stupid. But I want you to examine your real feelings. How would you feel, what would you do if he started drinking again ? I'm pretty sure your response would be - oh thank god, I'm out. I knew it. Problem solved. But - would there be a deep, down sorrow for what could have been ? Perhaps your answer lies there. I honoured my vows for 20 years, he didn't. That's complete BS. I couldn't take it if he started drinking again and I'd be mad that I wasted all this time trying to get back to a healthy happy marriage when I could have just moved on. And I could have moved on for and with my kids. MorningPerson I've said that to myself and once to him (when he was still drinking) would you think this was acceptable if you daughter was with a man like this? smcast yes I kind of had checked out a long time ago and am thinking it's not really possible to check back in CarefreeSadie thanks for sharing your story and quote. He's stopped his drinking but hasn't really changed himself that much. Doing things, being helpful. Our oldest doesn't want to do things with him anyway, so that is damaged. auroraborealis good points. The kids and I have a life, he needs to fit into it. We have flow and language and fit together from spending time together. He said he was sorry, when he first quit. I did open up and tell him a bunch of things I never got to tell a drunk him. But he still doesn't realize the full damage. His apology to the kids (I think) was basically sorry my drinking was so bad for so long and hurt you, I didn't realize it was that bad but I'm getting help now and want it to get better. My oldest says to me, not him, that her dad is dead to her. I told her she needs to talk to him and tell him the extent. I think he needs to truly learn what make amends means. |
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 18:22:08 GMT
cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. cindytred are you still saving money towards being able to move out on your own? We are financially stable, something he kept pointing out when he was drinking. Just because he earned us a good living doesn't mean he could justify being absent from our lives. No, I'm not saving money to move out on my own. All my extra money goes to my daughter who is a senior in college. She graduates in May and hopefully will be gainfully employed soon after. But even then I am too old and too close to retirement to be financially independent. I have decided to focus on living a good life despite my drunk husband. I understand how you resent his absence from participating with the family all these years. I do too. I did it all on my own. His wanting to make things right now would be "too little too late". Plus, just because he stops drinking like mine did for 7 years - he can always start again - like mine did. If I could afford it - I would leave in a heartbeat. Good luck to you Cindy. Does your husband abuse you or you just have to put up with his drinking? Does he leave you alone? I can't remember your whole story. If it's 'just' the drinking I can see that you could just trying to live your own happy life. My mom drove her friend to the bus depot almost 20 years ago and she left her controlling husband with nothing but a suitcase and almost no money. She didn't get anything in the divorce either because they had nothing. She stayed with her DD at first. Then on her own. Eventually she met a man and got married. They don't have a lot but they get by, and treat each other well. They could be at retirement age but won't be able to yet. |
|
Mary Kay Lady
Pearl Clutcher
PeaNut 367,913 Refupea number 1,638
Posts: 3,116
|
Post by Mary Kay Lady on Jan 8, 2018 18:35:24 GMT
anonwife So 1 out of 10 nights I can't go to the bedroom to read a book without it being a big pout fest by him? I'm at a good part in my book and I want to read for more than a few minutes before bed. I'm not his servant I don't need to sit in the living room and hold his hand all night. He never entertained me in the last 20 years. Really I owe it to him? I begged him for 15 years to come home and see the kids and be with us. I asked him to come with us and do things. I put the effort in for years and years. I finally decided I had had enough and wanted out and he had some epiphany and quit drinking and now I have to put the effort in? I'm trying but it's really hard after years of neglect. You say it's a commitment, well I committed for 20 years, he did nothing. He's trying, yes for 6 weeks. I need to do the same, I did, for 20 years.
I completely understand your feelings as you wrote this. It sounds like he's being selfish and unrealistic. He wants you to spend time with him and keep him company, but you can't do something that helps you relax and that you enjoy? One of the concerns that i continue to have with my estranged DH is that I simply don't trust him. He's lied to me THOUSANDS of times. He's lied to me straight to my face and wouldn't even bat an eye. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who is unable to be honest and truthful. I know that you said that due to the weather conditions you're not able to get to a counselor right now. Can you call and see if you can have a phone appointment so you can begin to sort out your feelings? I think counseling would be of great benefit at this point. In my opinion, it's better to be alone than with someone that I can't trust. You are the only one who can decide what you can and cannot live with.
|
|
anonwife
Shy Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by anonwife on Jan 8, 2018 18:41:31 GMT
You've been alone in your marriage for years, you don't need him and reading between the lines it doesn't sound like you even want him. Stick to the original plan that he moves out. You don't owe him anything after 20 odd years of misery. Putting up with something for 20 odd years is hardly not giving something a fair go! There really are no prizes for living in misery. Yeah no kidding. Right now it's fine because there is no fighting and there is no living drinking. But we're just comfortable roommates, making small town small talk. "I saw Sally at the bank, she said..." Small town gives you lots to chit chat about without realizing that you're not really talking or have anything in common. It's like when you go downtown and run into people and chat and say hi, you have acquaintances not friends. Misery yes and no. For a big part I've just lived my life without him, he's never here. Raised my kids, went to my family's house. Met with friends, scrapbook group in the past. Gone on vacation without him, with my kids all the time, with my kids and mom, a girlfriend weekend. |
|
The part I changed to bold, is what I was going to post. If you are committed to trying, then you have to go further than you've been used to going.
