RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,535
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Jan 11, 2018 20:56:08 GMT
permanent supportive housing recognizes that housing is a foundation and first step to achieving other positive outcomes I was at first rather skeptical of some of these programs, including one I'm tangentially involved with here. (My work is primarily with the people's immediate needs rather than this part of it.) But as time went by, and I talked with more people, I began to see a few things. The guy with the nice cell phone? He had it before (whatever) happened. He manages to keep a minimal service going by going in to the store and paying whatever he can when he can - but he needs to keep the phone going so that he can actually get info on job offers. There are tons of stories I run into like this - yeah, some people just prioritize the wrong things, but really, don't all of US do that sometimes? When you don't have an address you can use (even if it's someone else's) it's really hard to apply for jobs. When you don't have identification, it's impossible. There are a lot of young people here who are homeless, many of whom left home before they were even legal driving age. No ID, no job. No home, no ID. No, homeless people are not sweet and innocent and thankful and gracious at any greater rate than the rest of the population. But they are people, and deserve to be treated as such. Some of them are just unlucky, some have made bad choices, some are still making bad choices. I think some of the keys are helping people get into affordable housing, even if it's minimal, so they can have an address and a shower, maybe a place to wash some clothes. I do not think it should be free (or at least, not for a prolonged period.) I'm OK with someone working for their keep, as long as they aren't taken advantage of. And for so many reasons, we need better mental health care. Some people do need 24-7 mental health care. Even for those who don't, paying for meds for schizophrenia isn't going to be on the top of your budget when you have nothing.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 11, 2018 21:37:40 GMT
So we should just ignore the whole problem because of a statistically small part of the population? Once again, this is why we can't have a real conversation about homelessness until we love past this stereotype. we absolutely should not ignore the problem!!! not at all. the last recession, the housing crash, the loss of jobs to outsourcing or movement of factories overseas, vets coming back from war, catastrophic illnesses not covered by health care or no health----all these have contributed to the epidemic levels of homelessness. homelessness is no longer just a guy laying in the street. it is families living in cars. people living in broken down RVs lining the streets. people living in tent cities on all over the place. i know there are solutions to ending homelessness for 99.9% of those people. my question was/is, how do you take a person off the street who doesn't want to leave the street (for whatever reason)? and i'm not just stereotyping for the sake of my question. what if there really is a person like that? FOR EXAMPLE: there is a chronically homeless man in my neighborhood. his name is Bob. it really is his name. Bob has a drinking problem and a dog. people feed his dog and sometimes foster it when Bob is passed out on the sidewalk or wherever. people have talked to Bob, brought him food, given him money, sleeping bag, or tried to find him a place to stay. Bob will take a temporary aid but he won't leave the street. he says he needs help with his drinking but when neighbors offer him help take him to a rehab or to a shelter, he won't budge. he refuses to do anything further than take money or food. i know all this because there is an epic and ongoing "how can we help Bob" post on our NextDoor. when i originally asked my question, i was thinking of Bob. i know, on the whole, we as a society can probably help most homeless people find a way out but what about the Bobs of the world? i'm not assuming or stereotyping a bunch of people. i just "know" of one who will only accept so much help and still remain on the street. I feel like you're still missing the point. The entire issue of homelessness gets sidetracked because of these silly (pointless) questions about a very small portion of the population. Let's actually focus on homelessness without getting sidetracked by the harmful stereotype and we actually could solve the majority of the problem. People who insist on focusing on homeless "who don't want to be helped" ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 21:42:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 22:20:40 GMT
So we should just ignore the whole problem because of a statistically small part of the population? Once again, this is why we can't have a real conversation about homelessness until we love past this stereotype. we absolutely should not ignore the problem!!! not at all. the last recession, the housing crash, the loss of jobs to outsourcing or movement of factories overseas, vets coming back from war, catastrophic illnesses not covered by health care or no health----all these have contributed to the epidemic levels of homelessness. homelessness is no longer just a guy laying in the street. it is families living in cars. people living in broken down RVs lining the streets. people living in tent cities on all over the place. i know there are solutions to ending homelessness for 99.9% of those people. my question was/is, how do you take a person off the street who doesn't want to leave the street (for whatever reason)? and i'm not just stereotyping for the sake of my question. what if there really is a person like that? FOR EXAMPLE: there is a chronically homeless man in my neighborhood. his name is Bob. it really is his name. Bob has a drinking problem and a dog. people feed his dog and sometimes foster it when Bob is passed out on the sidewalk or wherever. people have talked to Bob, brought him food, given him money, sleeping bag, or tried to find him a place to stay. Bob will take a temporary aid but he won't leave the street. he says he needs help with his drinking but when neighbors offer him help take him to a rehab or to a shelter, he won't budge. he refuses to do anything further than take money or food. i know all this because there is an epic and ongoing "how can we help Bob" post on our NextDoor. when i originally asked my question, i was thinking of Bob. i know, on the whole, we as a society can probably help most homeless people find a way out but what about the Bobs of the world? i'm not assuming or stereotyping a bunch of people. i just "know" of one who will only accept so much help and still remain on the street. First post above you say the question is rhetorical, then it isn't because it is about Bob. Does anyone talk to Bob about what HE wants and maybe even get to know why he wants it? Does anyone trying to help him know him as a human? His past, his hopes, what he values? What his past experience with rehab is? What ties him to remain near that particular neighborhood? There is a reason. THe reason may be he knows people in that neighborhood will take care of his dog and will feed him sometimes. Taking him to rehab will mean moving him away from what little support he does get. Once he is taken away to some where else he may not have a way to come back to a place that does provide a small amount of support to him and he will end up even more destitute than he already is. To be honest, taking him away and helping him isn't really about helping HIM as a human it is about getting him away from us "nice people" so we don't see him and his need any more. Rehab is not an answer unless there is a support in place for after rehab; he will need a job that pays enough to pay rent, buy groceries, have transportation to job. Other wise, being sober is just too painful to deal with. Being drunk/high takes the edge off the cold, the hunger, the intense loneliness and awareness of what a failure society views you as being.
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,582
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Jan 11, 2018 22:42:32 GMT
I highly recommend the book Evicted by Matthew Desmond that won the Pulitzer last year for non-fiction. It's an excellent read. Thank you for this recommendation. I will also suggest $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America by Edin and Schaefer. There are so many real, raw examples of how people slip from employment and housing to joblessness and homelessness. I have two friends who experienced extended unemployment recently. Both are college-educated professionals who grew up upper-middle-class. One is mid-40's and lives with a working spouse. The other is near retirement age and has no family. Guess who's losing his apartment? The one with no safety net. Who is going to rent an apartment to a 60-year-old guy with no job and no (more) retirement savings? It's horrifying. Even though I have many layers of safety nets (which I did nothing to earn or deserve), I can see how it's possible to end up homeless, and it scares me to death.
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Post by papersilly on Jan 11, 2018 22:54:43 GMT
we absolutely should not ignore the problem!!! not at all. the last recession, the housing crash, the loss of jobs to outsourcing or movement of factories overseas, vets coming back from war, catastrophic illnesses not covered by health care or no health----all these have contributed to the epidemic levels of homelessness. homelessness is no longer just a guy laying in the street. it is families living in cars. people living in broken down RVs lining the streets. people living in tent cities on all over the place. i know there are solutions to ending homelessness for 99.9% of those people. my question was/is, how do you take a person off the street who doesn't want to leave the street (for whatever reason)? and i'm not just stereotyping for the sake of my question. what if there really is a person like that? FOR EXAMPLE: there is a chronically homeless man in my neighborhood. his name is Bob. it really is his name. Bob has a drinking problem and a dog. people feed his dog and sometimes foster it when Bob is passed out on the sidewalk or wherever. people have talked to Bob, brought him food, given him money, sleeping bag, or tried to find him a place to stay. Bob will take a temporary aid but he won't leave the street. he says he needs help with his drinking but when neighbors offer him help take him to a rehab or to a shelter, he won't budge. he refuses to do anything further than take money or food. i know all this because there is an epic and ongoing "how can we help Bob" post on our NextDoor. when i originally asked my question, i was thinking of Bob. i know, on the whole, we as a society can probably help most homeless people find a way out but what about the Bobs of the world? i'm not assuming or stereotyping a bunch of people. i just "know" of one who will only accept so much help and still remain on the street. I feel like you're still missing the point. The entire issue of homelessness gets sidetracked because of these silly (pointless) questions about a very small portion of the population. Let's actually focus on homelessness without getting sidetracked by the harmful stereotype and we actually could solve the majority of the problem. People who insist on focusing on homeless "who don't want to be helped" ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. i'm sorry you think my question is pointless or silly just because it's only about one man or a very small part of the homeless population. isn't even one homeless man enough to matter? the fact remains, even if Bob doesn't want help, he needs a solution too. I can't believe you believe i'm part of the problem just because i am just asking about one person or segment (as if I don't know about the millions of others). And why should one person be marginalized because they are not part of the majority? just because he doesn't want to be helped, doesn't mean he shouldn't be. people need to be concerned about the overlooked segments of homelessness too. OMG, this conversation is starting to mirror the epic Bob post on Nextdoor.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Jan 12, 2018 1:26:05 GMT
If money were no object here..... More / better mental health assistance Drug rehab programs transitional housing - the person lives there for 1 month but is required to look for a job at designated employers. Once hired, has wages taken to pay for housing on a sliding scale basis and then required to save X amount each month. Person has one year in this housing then can advance as earnings are increased, etc. incentives to employers to hire classes - not just education but "life skills" classes Basically, a REAL Welfare program for participants. A program that is temporary but also helps the participant grow and better himself. I work with a lot of our homeless population and are seeing record numbers of them in our community seeking healthcare and, often, just a warm place for the night with free meals and a shower. It is hard to turn them away but also hard to "take them in" because that just perpetuates the overpopulation of them in our hospitals. Sadly, I don't think there will ever be a cure for homelessness but I sure would like to see some improvements in the lives of the people that really do want to get help. Money could be less of an object if we wouldn't accept people making multi-tens of millions per year in take home pay while others sleep in the cold and rain. I would raise taxes by having more brackets w/incredibly high rates at the top so that no one would take home more than $10 million/year to fund jobs for social workers, public safety workers, etc. Win-Win. Put money to use diminishing homelessness AND put money to work employing people to help us get there. Or we could keep doing what we're doing and letting any to all of that money go out of the economy at will and into foreign assets an foreign homes, services, businesses, yachts, condos, parties, casinos, etc. The largest housing subsidy goes to the upper middle class/upper class in the form of mortgage interest deduction - yet people don't see that as an entitlement. If we are willing to give billions in giveaways to people who are doing okay, I don't know why we can't help those that don't even have a place to live.
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