The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 3,165
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Feb 22, 2018 5:21:07 GMT
I like having a liaison officer at our school. He is there for a lot of reasons, including building rapport with students. He carried his own weapon. I don’t think having other guns in lock boxes makes much sense unless you have multiple officers on duty not carrying their own weapons.
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Post by myshelly on Feb 22, 2018 12:09:51 GMT
Ok, then what is it that you are really trying to determine here. The level of people who are just anti-guns at all? I'd say that's been pretty much established don't ya think? What is the cruz of what you are trying to understand or determine here? Truly curious. I thought I was pretty clear in the op. You don't want teachers taking on this responsibility, how do feel about trained, dedicated personnel having that role? I still don't understand what you're asking. Everyone on this thread whose school has a resource officer says that the resource officer already carries.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 9,975
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Feb 22, 2018 12:18:46 GMT
Our resource officer is a police officer. With a gun. I'm perfectly comfortable with him at the school. He's trained, he knows the kids, he knows the ins and outs of our high school.
But we have 1700 kids in our high school. It's a huge campus. He can't be everywhere. And we can't afford more. We're already talking about increasing class sizes to meet next year's budget goals.
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 3,115
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Feb 22, 2018 13:26:09 GMT
More guns are not the solution I truly believe they are the opposite of the solution ,my kids are old grown but I would have homeschool ( and I am very against homeschooling )before I let them go in a classroom where the teacher is armed . I know it’s not a popular opinion but I believe that we need to rewrite the second amendment it doesn’t work in the 21st-century .
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
 
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Feb 22, 2018 14:00:25 GMT
Or how about just banning assault weapons for citizens? There's a novel idea.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 22, 2018 14:11:23 GMT
Bandaid. We keep talking bandaids. Vote for funding to invest in the resources schools need locally. Trust me. They know what they need to serve local students. It's one of the areas that I get completely pissed off at my party about and exactly why I can't switch parties because the option doesn't fulfill it. This whole "taxes are bad" is just insane to carry it to the local level. Yes, I'm old. One of the main reasons I became a Republican was not based on social issues such as abortion, safety nets, marriage equality etc., but the belief that the most effective government is the most local. All of us have lost this notion in my opinion.
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Post by melanell on Feb 22, 2018 14:14:39 GMT
Add me to the list who is still confused about the OP.
Our high schools, like many mentioned here, have had actual police officers present on campus for many years now, and yes they carry guns. And yes, they are what we refer to as "resource officers". I'm fine with them carrying their guns with them.
Now, if the OP is talking about some other sort of school staff, being in charge of guns in a safe somewhere, then that would be probably be something I would lean away from, although I wouldn't say "absolutely not" without hearing more details.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 22, 2018 14:22:25 GMT
In my district in Northern Virginia our resources officers are regular police officers. In uniform, with gun on hip. I have no objection to that because they are trained and they practice regularly (vs. the armed teacher who passed the safety course but isn't required to go to the shooting range regularly to keep up their skill) and that's their job.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 22, 2018 14:24:05 GMT
Or how about just banning assault weapons for citizens? There's a novel idea. You rabble rouser! coming out with all these weird ideas...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 14:29:35 GMT
No I don’t think adding guns to the situation is the answer. Who then makes sure the teachers or safety offices don’t go off their rocker?
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AgnesDeux
Full Member
 
Posts: 220
Jul 7, 2014 0:50:46 GMT
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Post by AgnesDeux on Feb 22, 2018 14:31:07 GMT
As a short female,I don’t personally want to be armed and overtaken. If they put a gun in my hand as a teacher, I will quit. This. Completely and totally this. I have said FOR YEARS that one of the many reasons I don't want a gun is that I am small and most likely anyone could overpower me and use my weapon ON me. More guns are not the answer. If I am required to have a gun at my school, I will no longer be teaching.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Feb 22, 2018 15:11:45 GMT
We have armed officers in our middle and high schools. Against an AR-15, their weapon would not make a bit of difference. It is like shells in WW1, our officers would be outgunned. Do I want an officer with some kind of automatic weapon? In a school? No thank you.
When I was young in Italy, there was a period with a good bit of terrorism. I have looked up the barrel of automatic weapons and I do not wish it for my children. I think that the safety of our children outweighs the enthusiasts right to an automatic weapon that is "fun" to shoot.
Finally, I think that everybody's freedom has been tamped down by fear in many forms and guns are big part of it. A resource officer with a gun is like pissing in the wind.
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Post by oliquig on Feb 22, 2018 15:18:42 GMT
If the SRO is a police officer who takes the gun with them when they leave, I have no issue. People who have little or no training should not be holding weapons in a crisis situation.
Under no circumstances do I think guns should be left in a school overnight. Even if they're in a gun safe, there is far too much of a chance of them being stolen.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 15:19:09 GMT
Our resource officers are trained policemen. They carry guns. Ours too. Now we need to get them in the middle schools and elementary schools. Problem is cost. I have a solution but the teacher's union won't ever go for it so....
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Post by christine58 on Feb 22, 2018 18:01:58 GMT
Our resource officers are trained policemen. They carry guns. Ours too. Now we need to get them in the middle schools and elementary schools. Problem is cost. I have a solution but the teacher's union won't ever go for it so....h You bring the Teachers' union into a lot of posts. I can tell you this...Teachers--Union or not--want kids and staff to be safe. Offer a solution...one that's good for everyone. Our Union--of which I was president of for 10 years--begged for Resource officers at our Career and Tech buildings. Guess what...we got one.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:13:36 GMT
I get that most of you object to teachers taking on the responsibility of stopping a shooter, even voluntarily. I see a lot of reasons for your objections and I understand where you're coming from. It's a no go for you. Period. Would you consider if the gun was made available to resource officers? Still not hanging from their hip, but in gun safes at strategic places around the school, similar to fire extinguishers. ONLY for use in the case of an active shooter. Where I'M coming from is that yes, we need to enforce current laws better, have more consistent laws, have better mental health reporting to NICS, do better background checks and even require training for proper use and safety with the purchase of a gun. But given all of that and even if we banned the AR15, I don't think it will stop those hell bent on shooting up a place. Even if they couldn't get the AR15 there are still so many weapons to choose from, so they could still shoot up a school or harm vast amounts of people in other ways. I don't think we can legislate the crazy away. So considering that, would you consider the resource officers? And guns in safes? ETA: How about retired or off duty LEOs or retired military? As a teacher, I have no objection to having properly screened individuals on guard. And I'm ok with them being armed. One shot from that guard and the problem is resolved. AS it is now, the safety drills we have (herding kids into closets, etc.) could be as dangerous as just putting all the fish in one bowl. I'd take my chances with a properly screened guard over a crazy person running around school with a gun. My problem is with asking teachers to take on yet another responsibility, especially one as serious as this. I live in NYC and the new normal after 9/11 is we all have to show photo proof etc. to go into most buildings and attractions. Penn Station has armed guards. At first people complained but now it's just normal. People adjust to change.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:15:40 GMT
Guess what? I petitioned and got SRO's reinstated too. Without any union support because "they didn't want to get involved". The teacher's union in our district has way too much power. Perhaps if they contributed more to their health insurance - like those who make +60k contribute another $250/ month - we could fund resource officers in all of our schools. (They pay $156/ month for family coverage and $78/month for single coverage - ridiculous.)
But no - we can't touch that. We can have armed guards in airplanes, banks, court buildings but not in the schools to protect our most precious "assets".
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Post by thundergal on Feb 22, 2018 18:18:08 GMT
I don't have kids in school and it's been a damn long time since I was in school myself.
My resistance to this is that I will never find the answer to guns to be more guns. I would like to say I'm open to all solutions but I don't know under what circumstances my answer on this changes.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Feb 22, 2018 18:23:10 GMT
Teachers issued and using guns is going to be the latest marketing campaign for the Troops to Teachers program.
What about those poor Wyoming schools who have the "bear gun?" (seriously... where is that idiot in this discussion).
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used2scrap
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,147
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Feb 22, 2018 18:28:25 GMT
Our resource officers are trained policemen. They carry guns. Ours too. Now we need to get them in the middle schools and elementary schools. Problem is cost. I have a solution but the teacher's union won't ever go for it so.... My daughters middle school has an armed police resource officer. I do not think our elementary school has one however.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Feb 22, 2018 19:06:45 GMT
A resource officer is not going to be trained well enough to deal with the chaos of an active shooter. it makes me wonder - do any of you have any idea what a chaotic fucking mess a school shooting is? can you even wrap your head around how scary it is - and that your brain isn't' working right? all these posts make me shake my head and think - people just don't understand and good for them - i guess We already have a resource officer and she carries a firearm at all times. She is a county sheriff and a specially trained SCHOOL resource officer. Ultimately, that won’t stop a mass shooting. our school has one too. and honestly - i wouldn't trust that she wouldn't run for the hills gina
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 22, 2018 19:10:04 GMT
Guess what? I petitioned and got SRO's reinstated too. Without any union support because "they didn't want to get involved". The teacher's union in our district has way too much power. Perhaps if they contributed more to their health insurance - like those who make +60k contribute another $250/ month - we could fund resource officers in all of our schools. (They pay $100/ month for family coverage and $50/month for single coverage - ridiculous.) But no - we can't touch that. We can have armed guards in airplanes, banks, court buildings but not in the schools to protect our most precious "assets". In my area, SRO (armed police officers) salary does not come out of instructional funds or teacher salary/benefits, so we reserve our predictable, obstructionist teacher union machinations for other matters. Also, I don't know any SRO who considers himself an armed guard. And I know many, many teachers, including myself, really appreciate the various duties an SRO has. More than once, I have sought out SRO assistance with a situation, student, or family. They're all over the building, including meetings...one on ones with students...speaking to classes. They spend a LOT of time interacting with the kids - which is often much more targeted than it appears. It would really be unfortunate if the strides they make were diminished because an expectation arises that their primary responsibility is to be at the trigger-finger ready - instead of serving as the (literal) resource they are hired to be. ~AmeliaBloomer Another former teachers' union president
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Post by christine58 on Feb 22, 2018 19:20:29 GMT
Guess what? I petitioned and got SRO's reinstated too. Without any union support because "they didn't want to get involved". The teacher's union in our district has way too much power. Perhaps if they contributed more to their health insurance - like those who make +60k contribute another $250/ month - we could fund resource officers in all of our schools. (They pay $156/ month for family coverage and $78/month for single coverage - ridiculous.) But no - we can't touch that. We can have armed guards in airplanes, banks, court buildings but not in the schools to protect our most precious "assets". You point the BLAME all the time at your school's union. You do realize that they negotiate those benefits with your SCHOOL BOARD. Why don't you run for it?? Sorry to hijack this post.... But your constant ragging on your district has gotten OLD. Run for your school board if you're so pissed off at the union.
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Post by gar on Feb 22, 2018 19:36:56 GMT
A resource officer is not going to be trained well enough to deal with the chaos of an active shooter. it makes me wonder - do any of you have any idea what a chaotic fucking mess a school shooting is? can you even wrap your head around how scary it is - and that your brain isn't' working right? all these posts make me shake my head and think - people just don't understand gina That’s about the most pertinent and relevant thing that’s been posted here today.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 21:26:21 GMT
More guns are not the solution I truly believe they are the opposite of the solution ,my kids are old grown but I would have homeschool ( and I am very against homeschooling )before I let them go in a classroom where the teacher is armed . I know it’s not a popular opinion but I believe that we need to rewrite the second amendment it doesn’t work in the 21st-century . We're not talking about teachers being armed in this thread.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 21:28:07 GMT
Or how about just banning assault weapons for citizens? There's a novel idea. So you ban "assault weapons" and deranged shooters pick from any of the other available weapons that aren't banned and continue creating massacres. Now what?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 21:31:25 GMT
Add me to the list who is still confused about the OP. Our high schools, like many mentioned here, have had actual police officers present on campus for many years now, and yes they carry guns. And yes, they are what we refer to as "resource officers". I'm fine with them carrying their guns with them. Now, if the OP is talking about some other sort of school staff, being in charge of guns in a safe somewhere, then that would be probably be something I would lean away from, although I wouldn't say "absolutely not" without hearing more details. I shouldn't have ETA in response to the posters who thought they shouldn't have a gun. It seems to have just confused the situation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 21:33:40 GMT
We have armed officers in our middle and high schools. Against an AR-15, their weapon would not make a bit of difference. It is like shells in WW1, our officers would be outgunned. Do I want an officer with some kind of automatic weapon? In a school? No thank you. When I was young in Italy, there was a period with a good bit of terrorism. I have looked up the barrel of automatic weapons and I do not wish it for my children. I think that the safety of our children outweighs the enthusiasts right to an automatic weapon that is "fun" to shoot.
Finally, I think that everybody's freedom has been tamped down by fear in many forms and guns are big part of it. A resource officer with a gun is like pissing in the wind. No one has an automatic weapon. They're illegal.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:35:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 21:38:25 GMT
I don't have kids in school and it's been a damn long time since I was in school myself. My resistance to this is that I will never find the answer to guns to be more guns. I would like to say I'm open to all solutions but I don't know under what circumstances my answer on this changes. When you have an active shooter and when the police get there with guns, he's stopped, my thinking is have the police there with guns, so he can be stopped sooner and prevent more deaths of innocents.
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jayfab
Drama Llama

procastinating
Posts: 5,748
Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Feb 22, 2018 21:53:12 GMT
Or how about just banning assault weapons for citizens? There's a novel idea. So you ban "assault weapons" and deranged shooters pick from any of the other available weapons that aren't banned and continue creating massacres. Now what? There will be more survivors of the massacres. What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on GunsAs I opened the CT scan last week to read the next case, I was baffled. The history simply read “gunshot wound.” I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before. In a typical handgun injury that I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ like the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, grey bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments. I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage? The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle which delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. There was nothing left to repair, and utterly, devastatingly, nothing that could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal. A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out-of-the-ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low velocity handgun injuries as those I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived. Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim's body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and they do not bleed to death before being transported to our care at a trauma center, chances are, we can save the victim. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different; they travel at higher velocity and are far more lethal. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than, and imparting more than three times the energy of, a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine cartridge with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading. I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. I saw one from a man shot in the back by a SWAT team years ago. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat travelling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange. With an AR-15, the shooter does not have to be particularly accurate. The victim does not have to be unlucky. If a victim takes a direct hit to the liver from an AR-15, the damage is far graver than that of a simple handgun shot injury. Handgun injuries to the liver are generally survivable unless the bullet hits the main blood supply to the liver. An AR-15 bullet wound to the middle of the liver would cause so much bleeding that the patient would likely never make it to a trauma center to receive our care. One of my ER colleagues was waiting nervously for his own children outside the school. While the shooting was still in progress, the first responders were gathering up victims whenever they could and carrying them outside the building. Even as a physician trained in trauma situations, though, there was nothing he could do at the scene to help to save the victims who had been shot with an AR-15. Most of them died on the spot, with no fighting chance at life. As a doctor, I feel I have a duty to inform the public of what I have learned as I have observed these wounds and cared for these patients. It’s clear to me that AR-15 or other high-velocity weapons, especially when outfitted with a high-capacity magazine, have no place in a civilian’s gun cabinet. I have friends who own AR-15 rifles; they enjoy shooting them at target practice for sport, and fervently defend their right to own them. But I cannot accept that their right to enjoy their hobby supersedes my right to send my own children to school, to a movie theater, or to a concert and to know that they are safe. Can the answer really be to subject our school children to active shooter drills—to learn to hide under desks, turn off the lights, lock the door and be silent—instead of addressing the root cause of the problem and passing legislation to take AR-15-style weapons out of the hands of civilians? But in the aftermath of this shooting, in the face of specific questioning, our government leaders did not want to discuss gun control even when asked directly about these issues. Florida Senator Marco Rubio warned not to “jump to conclusions that there’s some law we could have passed that could have prevented it.” A reporter asked House Speaker Paul Ryan about gun control, and he replied, “As you know, mental health is often a big problem underlying these tragedies.” And on Tuesday, Florida’s state legislature voted against considering a ban on AR-15-type rifles, 71 to 36. If politicians want to back comprehensive mental-health reform, I am all for it. As a medical doctor, I’ve witnessed firsthand the toll that mental-health issues take on families and the individuals themselves who have no access to satisfactory long-term mental-health care. But the president and Congress should not use this issue as an excuse to deliberately overlook the fact that the use of AR-15 rifles is the common denominator in many mass shootings. A medical professor taught me about the dangers of drawing incorrect conclusions from data with the example of gum chewing, smokers, and lung cancer. He said smokers may be more likely to chew gum to cover bad breath, but that one cannot look at the data and decide that gum chewing causes lung cancer. It is the same type of erroneous logic that focuses on mental health after mass shootings, when banning the sale of semi-automatic rifles would be a far more effective means of preventing them. Banning the AR-15 should not be a partisan issue. While there may be no consensus on many questions of gun control, there seems to be broad support for removing high-velocity, lethal weaponry and high-capacity magazines from the market, which would drastically reduce the incidence of mass murders. Every constitutionally guaranteed right that we are blessed to enjoy comes with responsibilities. Even our right to free speech is not limitless. Second Amendment gun rights must respect the same boundaries. The CDC is the appropriate agency to review the potential impact of banning AR-15 style rifles and high-capacity magazines on the incidence of mass shootings. The agency was effectively barred from studying gun violence as a public-health issue in 1996 by a statutory provision known as the Dickey amendment. This provision needs to be repealed so that the CDC can study this issue and make sensible gun-policy recommendations to Congress. The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) of 1994 included language which prohibited semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, and also large-capacity magazines with the ability to hold more than 10 rounds. The ban was allowed to expire after 10 years on September 13, 2004. The mass murders that followed the ban’s lapse make clear that it must be reinstated. On Wednesday night, Rubio said at a town-hall event hosted by CNN that it is impossible to create effective gun regulations because there are too many “loopholes” and that a “plastic grip” can make the difference between a gun that is legal and illegal. But if we can see the different impacts of high- and low-velocity rounds clinically, then the government can also draw such distinctions. As a radiologist, I have now seen high velocity AR-15 gunshot wounds firsthand, an experience that most radiologists in our country will never have. I pray that these are the last such wounds I have to see, and that AR-15-style weapons and high-capacity magazines are banned for use by civilians in the United States, once and for all. SaveSave
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