Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 13:29:45 GMT
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 13:32:35 GMT
I guess Donald Trump was eager to counter the impression in Michael Wolff’s book that he is irascible, mentally small and possibly insane. On Tuesday, he allowed a bipartisan session in the White House about immigration to be televised for nearly an hour.
Surely, he thought that he would be able to demonstrate to the world his lucidity and acumen, his grasp of the issues and his relish for rapprochement with his political adversaries.
But instead what came through was the image of a man who had absolutely no idea what he was talking about; a man who says things that are 180 degrees from the things he has said before; a man who has no clear line of reasoning; a man who is clearly out of his depth and willing to do and say anything to please the people in front of him.
He demonstrated once again that he is a man without principle, interested only in how good he can make himself look and how much money he can make.
Yes, he has an intrinsic hostility to people who are not white, particularly when they challenge him, but as a matter of policy, the whole idea of building a wall for which Mexico would pay was just a cheap campaign stunt to, once again, please the people in front of him.
Trump is not committed to that wall on principle. He is committed only to looking good as a result of whatever comes of it. Mexico is never going to pay for it, and he knows it. He has always known it. That was just another lie. Someone must have stuck the phrases “chain migration” and “diversity lottery” into his brain — easy buzzwords, you see — and he can now rail against those ideas for applause lines.
But he is completely malleable on actual immigration policy. He doesn’t have the stamina for that much reading. Learning about immigration would require reading more words than would fit on a television news chyron.
If Donald Trump follows through with what he said during that meeting, his base will once again be betrayed. He will have proved once again that he was saying anything to keep them angry, even telling lies. He will have demonstrated once again his incompetence and unfitness.
And once again, they won’t care.
That is because Trump is man-as-message, man-as-messiah. Trump support isn’t philosophical but theological.
Trumpism is a religion founded on patriarchy and white supremacy.
It is the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman and a belief that the most vile, anti-intellectual, scandal-plagued simpleton of a white man is sufficient to follow in the presidential footsteps of the best educated, most eloquent, most affable black man.
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.”
And once again, they won’t care.
That is because Trump is man-as-message, man-as-messiah. Trump support isn’t philosophical but theological.
Trumpism is a religion founded on patriarchy and white supremacy.
It is the belief that even the least qualified man is a better choice than the most qualified woman and a belief that the most vile, anti-intellectual, scandal-plagued simpleton of a white man is sufficient to follow in the presidential footsteps of the best educated, most eloquent, most affable black man.
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.”
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In a way, Donald Trump represents white people’s right to be wrong and still be right. He is the embodiment of the unassailability of white power and white privilege.
To abandon him is to give up on the pact that America has made with its white citizens from the beginning: The government will help to underwrite white safety and success, even at the expense of other people in this country, whether they be Native Americans, African-Americans or new immigrants.
But this idea of elevating the lowest white man over those more qualified or deserving didn’t begin with Johnson’s articulation and won’t end with Trump’s manifestation. This is woven into the fabric of the flag.
As I have written here before, when Alabama called a constitutional convention in 1901, Emmet O’Neal, who later became governor, argued that the state should “lay deep and strong and permanent in the fundamental law of the state the foundation of white supremacy forever in Alabama,” and as part of that strategy he argued:
“I don’t believe it is good policy to go up in the hills and tell them that Booker Washington or Councill or anybody else is allowed to vote because they are educated. The minute you do that every white man who is not educated is disfranchised on the same proposition.”
In his essay “Black Reconstruction in America, 1860-1880,” W.E.B. Du Bois discussed why poor whites didn’t make common cause with poor blacks and slaves but instead prized their roles as overseers and slave catchers, eagerly joining the Klan. This fed the white man’s “vanity because it associated him with the masters,” Du Bois wrote.
He continued:
“Slavery bred in the poor white a dislike of Negro toil of all sorts. He never regarded himself as a laborer, or as part of any labor movement. If he had any ambition at all it was to become a planter and to own ‘niggers.’ To these Negroes he transferred all the dislike and hatred which he had for the whole slave system. The result was that the system was held stable and intact by the poor white.”
For white supremacy to be made perfect, the lowest white man must be exalted above those who are black.
No matter how much of an embarrassment and a failure Trump proves to be, his exploits must be judged a success. He must be deemed a correction to Barack Obama and a superior choice to Hillary Clinton. White supremacy demands it. Patriarchy demands it. Trump’s supporters demand it.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Apr 10, 2018 13:41:46 GMT
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 13:56:38 GMT
I always thought Trump was an ultra-conservative reaction to President Obama's ultra-liberalism. While that may be true, this article shows me an uglier interpretation which I fear is also true. I don't like to think of America this way. I thought we were better than that. Certainly our ideals are better than that. How do we make reality meet up with our ideals?
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Post by lemondrop on Apr 10, 2018 14:00:02 GMT
Thank you for sharing this.
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 14:02:51 GMT
I always thought Trump was an ultra-conservative reaction to President Obama's ultra-liberalism. While that may be true, this article shows me an uglier interpretation which I fear is also true. I don't like to think of America this way. I thought we were better than that. Certainly our ideals are better than that. How do we make reality meet up with our ideals? Ultra conservative reaction? That's an interesting choice of words. What's conservative about a womanizer/rapist who's third wife could be google image searched using the words "nudes+First Lady". Conservative must be code for something else.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 14:23:03 GMT
I don't speak in code. I'm referring to conservative politics, not conservative values. They're not always the same thing.
Trump said what he needed to say to get elected. I think he was the worst possible choice. This article makes me realize his voters had all kinds of motivations that I didn't understand.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Apr 10, 2018 14:27:51 GMT
I always thought Trump was an ultra-conservative reaction to President Obama's ultra-liberalism. While that may be true, this article shows me an uglier interpretation which I fear is also true. I don't like to think of America this way. I thought we were better than that. Certainly our ideals are better than that. How do we make reality meet up with our ideals? What's funny is that ultra liberals don't think of Obama as "ultra liberal" at all. He was considered, at the very least, a moderate. Fox perhaps portrayed him as "ultar liberal" so that's what the Trump followers believe, but he actually really wasn't. Here's an article from The American Conservative describing just how conservative Obama actually was: article
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 1:01:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 14:35:52 GMT
I always thought Trump was an ultra-conservative reaction to President Obama's ultra-liberalism. While that may be true, this article shows me an uglier interpretation which I fear is also true. I don't like to think of America this way. I thought we were better than that. Certainly our ideals are better than that. How do we make reality meet up with our ideals? What's funny is that ultra liberals don't think of Obama as "ultra liberal" at all. He was considered, at the very least, a moderate. Fox perhaps portrayed him as "ultar liberal" so that's what the Trump followers believe, but he actually really wasn't. Here's an article from The American Conservative describing just how conservative Obama actually was: articleCracks me up so hard when people refer to Obama as "ultra liberal". I'd love to believe people are more intelligent than they are. FISA, making sure the banks (who caused the crisis) didn't suffer too steep of haircuts in the recession, settling for ACA vs. a public option, record deportations. C'mon.
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Post by busy on Apr 10, 2018 15:27:43 GMT
It’s funny how the “ultra-conservatives” of the Family Values Party only stopped caring about “conservative values” after our first African-American president and when our first woman president was looking likely.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 16:00:27 GMT
It’s funny how the “ultra-conservatives” of the Family Values Party only stopped caring about “conservative values” after our first African-American president and when our first woman president was looking likely. I really hate to think that's true. But you might be right.
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Post by SockMonkey on Apr 10, 2018 16:14:55 GMT
That was a really interesting Op-Ed. Thank you for sharing it.
In particular, this quote stood out to me, as I'm reading a book right now called "The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How The Government Segregated America" (Richard Rothstein)
To abandon him is to give up on the pact that America has made with its white citizens from the beginning: The government will help to underwrite white safety and success, even at the expense of other people in this country, whether they be Native Americans, African-Americans or new immigrants.
I'm only 3 chapters into the book, but there is evidence over and over of both Democrats and Republicans consistently upholding segregation and racist policies in housing, from just after the Civil War through present day. (The book will also address things like education in later chapters). It was eye-opening (and that is my privilege showing). I'm looking forward to continuing the book.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 16:24:08 GMT
What's funny is that ultra liberals don't think of Obama as "ultra liberal" at all. He was considered, at the very least, a moderate. Fox perhaps portrayed him as "ultar liberal" so that's what the Trump followers believe, but he actually really wasn't. Here's an article from The American Conservative describing just how conservative Obama actually was: articleCracks me up so hard when people refer to Obama as "ultra liberal". I'd love to believe people are more intelligent than they are. FISA, making sure the banks (who caused the crisis) didn't suffer too steep of haircuts in the recession, settling for ACA vs. a public option, record deportations. C'mon. Wow, okay. I didn't expect insults to my intelligence. I don't watch Fox News. I watch CNN. Some (non-conservative) sources for my observation that Senator Obama was quite liberal (sources dated around the time of his election): GovTrack.usCNN PoliticsMy personal view is that President Obama was more moderate than Senator Obama. As a fiscal conservative, my main critique of President Obama was his increase to the national debt in an amount somewhere between $900 billion - $9 trillion (source The Balance.com FactCheck.org). Of course Trump is making the budget worse instead of better. But my initial statement was about the Conservatives' view of President Obama as a liberal, and that perhaps that viewpoint led to the reactionary nomination of Donald Trump. In other words, the perception of liberalism leading to the choosing of the idiot who told them what they wanted to hear. Olan's link has shown me an even uglier motivation. I am trying to learn, expand my vision, and see things from others' point of view.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 1:01:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 18:12:07 GMT
Cracks me up so hard when people refer to Obama as "ultra liberal". I'd love to believe people are more intelligent than they are. FISA, making sure the banks (who caused the crisis) didn't suffer too steep of haircuts in the recession, settling for ACA vs. a public option, record deportations. C'mon. Wow, okay. I didn't expect insults to my intelligence. I don't watch Fox News. I watch CNN. Some (non-conservative) sources for my observation that Senator Obama was quite liberal (sources dated around the time of his election): GovTrack.usCNN PoliticsMy personal view is that President Obama was more moderate than Senator Obama. As a fiscal conservative, my main critique of President Obama was his increase to the national debt in an amount somewhere between $900 billion - $9 trillion (source The Balance.com FactCheck.org). Of course Trump is making the budget worse instead of better. But my initial statement was about the Conservatives' view of President Obama as a liberal, and that perhaps that viewpoint led to the reactionary nomination of Donald Trump. In other words, the perception of liberalism leading to the choosing of the idiot who told them what they wanted to hear. Olan's link has shown me an even uglier motivation. I am trying to learn, expand my vision, and see things from others' point of view. Sorry. This was not meant for you - but for those who term Obama "ULTRA liberal". I thought you were saying that people see him that way. Not that you do. Do you? Liberal? Sure. ULTRA LIBERAL??? Not even close. See above for issues that an ultra liberal would have fought for. Obama tried to work toward the center. McConnell basically forced him to work alone since their NUMBER ONE GOAL was to make him a "one term president". If Obama had been ULTRA liberal, he would have fought straight for single payer/medicare for all, for MASSIVE haircuts for the banks during the financial crisis. He might even have tried to dismantle the financial system by breaking up the big banks. In other words, he would have looked a lot more like Sanders and less like an normal, moderate, fiscal conservative.
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 18:39:06 GMT
I don't speak in code. I'm referring to conservative politics, not conservative values. They're not always the same thing. Trump said what he needed to say to get elected. I think he was the worst possible choice. This article makes me realize his voters had all kinds of motivations that I didn't understand. I don't think the motivations of the majority of 45 supporters could have been anymore clear. A black person couldnt even attend a rally without being beaten and the attacker offered free legal services how could any of you claim to not understand what motivated people to vote for 45. I could totally buy this if there was one redeemable quality about 45. Just one single thing that would make him qualified to lead this country. But there isn't. "Conservatives" can't keep feigning ignorance while everything falls apart and innocent people suffer.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 10, 2018 19:12:17 GMT
I am not certain this is the case for every supporter, but I am quite certain it is the case for many. And reading it, pondering it, I just feel very sad.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 19:19:34 GMT
I don't speak in code. I'm referring to conservative politics, not conservative values. They're not always the same thing. Trump said what he needed to say to get elected. I think he was the worst possible choice. This article makes me realize his voters had all kinds of motivations that I didn't understand. I don't think the motivations of the majority of 45 supporters could have been anymore clear. A black person couldnt even attend a rally without being beaten and the attacker offered free legal services how could any of you claim to not understand what motivated people to vote for 45. I could totally buy this if there was one redeemable quality about 45. Just one single thing that would make him qualified to lead this country. But there isn't. "Conservatives" can't keep feigning ignorance while everything falls apart and innocent people suffer. I agree with you. I have a tendency to ascribe the best possible motives to everyone. (Except Trump. I never ascribed any good motives to Trump.) I thought that was my optimism speaking. Back then I thought that Trump was an idiot. I have come to realize that he is actually dangerous. He is not only dangerous in the ways I might have expected (stupid policy, stupid diplomacy, stupid international relations). He is dangerous within our borders. He is a danger to our higher ideals, to our unity, and for many groups and individuals, to our lives and liberty and pursuit of happiness. He has emboldened the worst members of our society to act on their worst tendencies. He is even more terrible than I suspected. His influence is far stronger than I imagined. The only positive I see is that his horribleness is empowering a reaction movement. (I may not be phrasing this correctly - I'm still thinking it through - please be patient with me.) His casual crudity and mistreatment of women is, I believe, one of the factors leading to the #MeToo movement. I am not qualified to speak on what effect his racism may have had on our society, but I believe there has been a reactionary movement. All I can hope is that the counter-movements and our nation grow stronger in spite of this man. That, and that we make better choices in future elections.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Apr 10, 2018 19:22:11 GMT
Wow, okay. I didn't expect insults to my intelligence. I don't watch Fox News. I watch CNN. Some (non-conservative) sources for my observation that Senator Obama was quite liberal (sources dated around the time of his election): GovTrack.usCNN PoliticsMy personal view is that President Obama was more moderate than Senator Obama. As a fiscal conservative, my main critique of President Obama was his increase to the national debt in an amount somewhere between $900 billion - $9 trillion (source The Balance.com FactCheck.org). Of course Trump is making the budget worse instead of better. But my initial statement was about the Conservatives' view of President Obama as a liberal, and that perhaps that viewpoint led to the reactionary nomination of Donald Trump. In other words, the perception of liberalism leading to the choosing of the idiot who told them what they wanted to hear. Olan's link has shown me an even uglier motivation. I am trying to learn, expand my vision, and see things from others' point of view. Sorry. This was not meant for you - but for those who term Obama "ULTRA liberal". Thank you for clarifying!
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Post by femalebusiness on Apr 10, 2018 19:35:55 GMT
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
Truth!
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 19:40:05 GMT
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Truth! Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.”
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Post by pierogi on Apr 10, 2018 22:19:06 GMT
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Truth! Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.” Oh, we hear them loud and clear.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 22:27:24 GMT
I am not certain this is the case for every supporter, but I am quite certain it is the case for many. And reading it, pondering it, I just feel very sad. What other explanations are there though? The overwhelming majority voted for 45 because he ran a campaign filled with hate and fear. 45 is President because America has a digusting problem it wants to keep sweeping under the rug. Plain and simple. It was only a matter of time before other countries recognize how huge the divide is and use it to their benefit. Russia already has.
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Post by #notLauren on Apr 10, 2018 22:55:10 GMT
As President Lyndon B. Johnson said in the 1960s to a young Bill Moyers: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Truth! Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.” If Obama was the best you have to offer, then it's sad. I can think of many African Americans I would have voted for and supported, but not him. Yep, I know many who say that; including me.
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Post by SockMonkey on Apr 10, 2018 22:56:46 GMT
Trump’s supporters are saying to us, screaming to us, that although he may be the “lowest white man,” he is still better than Barack Obama, the “best colored man.” If Obama was the best you have to offer, then it's sad. I can think of many African Americans I would have voted for and supported, but not him. Yep, I know many who say that; including me. WELP.
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Post by #notLauren on Apr 10, 2018 22:58:08 GMT
That's right "welp". Keep putting up people like that and conservative will keep voting against that person; including Oprah.
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Post by SockMonkey on Apr 10, 2018 22:59:06 GMT
That's right "welp". Keep putting up people like that and conservative will keep voting against that person; including Oprah. You mean black people. Or as you refer to them, "colored?" Trash. You're just trash.
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Post by #notLauren on Apr 10, 2018 23:05:58 GMT
No, you're trash. And you keep putting up trash as examples of exemplary African Americans. And you do it solely so you can scream "racism". And this is precisely why so many people are no longer concerned when people like you call them "racist".
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Post by #notLauren on Apr 10, 2018 23:08:33 GMT
Here's a list of AAs I'd support. How many of them would you call "Uncle Toms's"? Republican AAs
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 23:08:44 GMT
No, you're trash. And you keep putting up trash as examples of exemplary African Americans. And you do it solely so you can scream "racism". And this is precisely why so many people are no longer concerned when people like you call them "racist". When we're racist people ever concerned that people called them racist? President Obama is a far better a human being than 45. No clue what barometer you're using.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 10, 2018 23:10:49 GMT
Here's a list of AAs I'd support. How many of them would you call "Uncle Toms's"? Republican AAsWhy not just call them Republicans.
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