sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,379
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on May 8, 2018 12:19:29 GMT
Is it that they once were treated by an opioid medication and accidentally they became addicted? Is it that they purposely sought out these drugs recreationally? Is it that these drugs are common illegal drugs and the street supply is supplemented by prescriptions that are diverted or stolen? It is a bit of all of these. So given that, why are we making things harder for people in actual legitimate serious pain? Because some people who start using these drugs for pain become addicted. Because some people don't use all their prescribed drugs, and sell them on. Because some of those who are addicted 'doctor shop' to get multiple prescriptions, either to feed their addiction or to sell.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 18, 2024 23:15:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2018 12:39:43 GMT
Here's a story of addiction and the pain it causes. I have met Avi and his wife Julie and they have turned their grief into advocacy. Save the Michaels
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Post by snugglebutter on May 8, 2018 12:48:50 GMT
link - I think this is an interesting article suggesting why some people are more vulnerable to addiction.
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Post by mom on May 8, 2018 12:52:09 GMT
I can only speak from what I have seen in my family, as my sister is a recovered pain prescription addict.
My sister married a man, way older than her (by 25 years) and they moved to the middle of no where. She ended up unhappy in her marriage to someone who was old enough to be her dad, and lonely. She self medicated - because of the depression, she couldn't sleep so she would take 'something' to sleep. Eventually that quit working and she would take more and more. When that quit working, she convinced herself 'xyz' was wrong. And her Dr would give her whatever pain medicine she thought she needed to get through life. She would dr and pharmacy shop.Everyone in her small town knew she was an addict but that didn't stop Dr from giving her prescriptions. And once they did stop giving them to her, she would find another dr to give them to her.
All the while, she finished her Masters. She had a great, full time job and had a son. She was a room mom. Until she was caught driving on the wrong side of the road, high. She spent a week in the hospital because she had taken so much that her organs were shutting down. But once she was out of the hospital, she would go right back to the drugs.
She did rehab. She did out patient therapy. Nothing worked. She would convince them to let her leave the program early.
It got to the point that she would steal medicine from friends homes (let me go the restroom, and while in there, take whatever med she could find). She broke into homes. She stole from family. And finally resorted to stealing prescription pads. She was arrested, FINALLY, and spent 6 months in the county jail because no one would bail her out. After being convinced of several felonies, she was forced into a year long rehab as part of her sentencing. She finally got clean then. When she was arrested, she was taking 35 hydrocodone pills a day. She overdosed 4x (that we are aware of).
But she lost her home, her husband, her child, her job, her extended family (she is just now starting to rebuild relationships).
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,008
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on May 8, 2018 13:00:49 GMT
There are so many gateways into addiction. In my county, there have been numerous stories about high school athletes getting addicted after injury and surgery. We take the risk seriously enough that we requested no opioids after both of my daughter's major surgeries and restricted my son to only 1/2 pill before bedtime the first night after his most recent surgery. Maybe that's ridiculous over worrying but I don't think any human being wakes up and decides "I want to get addicted to drugs today." Maybe it's one bad decision by kids whose frontal lobes aren't developed yet, maybe it's self-medicating, maybe it's a genetic predisposition that gets turned on after being legitimately prescribed these types of drugs.
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Post by mustlovecats on May 8, 2018 13:06:34 GMT
I have two family members who rode the slippery slope to severe addiction. Both started with medically needed pain relief, not from things like oral surgery but things like a debilitating accident and cancer. Both times the treatment ended but the pain remained... opiate treatment causes some people to have worse pain after treatment stops. The pain and physical dependence sent both people into a long spiral of alcohol use and use of other substances. One ended up on meth because we live in a community plagued with meth.
It’s devastating. I used to think people just chose to become addicts by their own behavior. But I began to abuse alcohol in my late thirties and I discovered the brain/body connection of addiction and how addiction demands you to feed it. You don’t wake up one day and say I think I’ll implode my life today. It happens one step at a time often without realizing. You discover that your emotional pain is also soothed along with your physical pain and it’s hard to change that path once you’re on it.
I think the solution is twofold and it’s not easy - one, I think we need a lot more research into pain control to find better ways to help people from a medical level and two, I think we need to have a more honest cultural conversation about how physical pain and mental pain are connected and invest in healing people inside and out.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on May 8, 2018 13:10:25 GMT
Honestly - i'm glad you have a hard time understanding it
because that likely means you aren't affected by addiction in your life
i live in an area that is drowning in drug activity -
and quite frankly, i'm sick and heartbroken
it directly affects my family and so many of my friends
and it's honestly hard for me to see some of the things i see said here
the stigma that is right under the surface
and the 'not my family' (even if subconscious) that lingers
it's never 'my problem' until it is
gina
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Post by mom on May 8, 2018 13:12:36 GMT
I can only speak from what I have seen in my family, ... ...(she is just now starting to rebuild relationships). I am so sorry "mom". How painful not just for your sister, but for you to watch her go through this. From my vantage point, limiting prescriptions to a 7 day supply would not have changed that, as she was willing to doctor shop and fill countless prescriptions, despite pharmacists and doctors being on to her. And when legitimate ways to obtain the pills dried up, she seems like she was willing or driven to do whatever illegal methods she needed. Initially, if the prescriptions needed to be filled more frequently (but were still given), do you think that would have changed the outcome? It would seem that at the beginning, it was poor medical practice of doing what was easiest and writing a prescription, rather than referring her on to professional counseling, that was to blame. Again, I am seriously sorry you each needed to go through that, and am hopeful she will be able to recover and build a fulfilling life. No, limiting the prescriptions at the pharmacy would not have prevented my sister from becoming addicted. She would have only stolen medicines sooner and/or pharmacy shopped sooner. Her doctors absolutely failed her - she never was referred to counseling. Never treated for depression. No one questioned her 'pain'. Heck, she wasn't even required to go in person to her doctor. She could call and get what she needed over the phone in the beginning (about the first 2 years). When her Dr started requiring she come in, she would just start over with a new Dr (sometimes in the same practice). At one point, she had 4 different doctors prescribing her hydrocodone - all for different ailments.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 8, 2018 13:23:27 GMT
The myriad reasons for addiction aside, the warnings are there because there are measures that exist to prevent death in case of an overdose. All of the PSAs I've seen so far are about not using alone and having a Naloxone kit on hand.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on May 8, 2018 13:38:45 GMT
From where you stand, as personally involved as you are, what would make a difference? Would limiting prescriptions to 7 days, and requiring more frequent refills make a difference in the situations you are experiencing? Or are we missing the mark, and not providing what these family and friends really need? yes it would i know people that sell their RXs everyone knows the drs that over prescribe the addicts know when they get a new RX and they are ready to buy doctor shopping - multiple pharmacies i know an 70 year old woman in the next town that sells her percocets a 65 year old RX drug dealer od'd and died in my town last year and i was fucking relieved - sad for her kids - but it was one less person selling pills (and yes - everything i know has been reported to the drug task force team) FOR SURE limiting the quantity of pills will limit the amount of pills available for sale BUT it'll also push people to change to heroin it's a hellish cycle i appreciate your concern - i really do but i'm not sure what your purpose is with this thread lots of opinions from people that really have no idea of the hell that drugs are theory and reality don't always align but i'll continue posting for those that live the reality i don't wish insider knowledge on anyone - i hope that none of you call their best friend or SIL and ask how their incarcerated sons are doing - or be able to count kids in jail - or worry that a late night call means a funeral gian
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Post by dewryce on May 8, 2018 13:43:46 GMT
Personally speaking, I strongly believe there is a genetic component. My personality is such that I become obsessed with things very easily. I have bipolar disorder and in my 20s when my mania was at it worst alcohol was starting to become an issue for me in that I never had a drink, I had at least half a dozen. Alcoholism ran in the family. People with mental disorders often self-medicate. But I have chronic pain, and I have taken gobs of hydrocodone in my lifetime. My doctors have (rightly) shown concern for addiction based on my other issues. It has never done anything for me but (moderate) pain relief, I have never gotten any other benefit, never felt happy or high and not even had the slightest feeling of that kind of need. I'm still very cautious, and I consider myself extremely lucky.
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Post by buddysmom on May 8, 2018 13:57:39 GMT
I feel much of the problem is physicians just "handing out drugs" to get rid of patients.
I worked in workers' comp for 25 years. We had many, many claims that remained open just to fill the prescriptions. These started as minor-ish injuries from the 1980's that have escalated. The people would continue to go to the doctor a few times per year and the doctor would continue to fill the prescriptions, but more pills and stronger medications. Yes, we saw this coming long before it was "on the radar" of the general public.
Many of these people continue to work, etc, and appear to function normally. It would cost the insurance company maybe 25K per year per claim--and that is with the giant discount we would get. So then the costs of doing business, etc, workers comp premiums, etc would go up.
Things have changed now with them writing prescriptions for opioids less frequently. The people I dealt with are less likely to overdose because their medications are monitored, they are not getting them on the black market, etc but many have been on these drugs for 30 + years. We would ask if they want to try detox--very few try. And of the ones who have tried--I don't think one succeeded. And this in a situation that it costs the employee nothing, it would all be paid through workers' comp.
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Post by mustlovecats on May 8, 2018 14:21:19 GMT
I have two family members ... Thank you for sharing and I'm sorry you have experienced this. Do you feel that requiring more frequent refills would have prevented this? It seems that there was a legitimate need, and that the treatment ended in what the medical profession must have felt was an appropriate amount of time. Was the failure more of the medical community's resistance to seeing that they were still in pain that was not being relieved? Or in not seeing that alternative measures needed to be tried since the prescriptions had not had the results they needed? I wonder if the article about ACE above may be related to your personal situation, but I also personally believe there may be a genetic component as well. Unfortunately, not everyone gets an equal shot in life. It’s hard to say what would have helped. In a third example, a family member with a congenital hip defect takes opioids that are rationed like gold by the doctor, and manages them extremely well. I do feel like having a 30 day supply makes it easier to take an extra one when the pain is bad and then going through a 30 day supply in 20 days and I think this is a contributing factor. Slowing the flow of meds could potentially slow the rate of intake and perhaps slowed the problem. I don’t know. I sympathize with very sick patients who can’t get to the pharmacy once a week to get their meds and think there should be protocol for this.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 8, 2018 14:28:09 GMT
See, dgd gets these sorts of prescriptions legitimately due to her medical condition. So I assume we would be an average family that could in theory have some left over that we could sell. Speaking just for us, I have no idea how to even do that if I wanted to. (Not that we do, or ever would. Her prescriptions are like gold and precious to us, because when the girl is in serious pain, it is heartbreaking and we want effective relief ASAP. None of us would ever want to jeopardize that.) Just like I have no clue where I would even buy heroin if I wanted to. Do most people have easy ways to profit from leftover pills? I know that her doctors are already restricted in what they can give, and their prescriptions are monitored. Wouldn't more closely scrutinizing a database of patients and prescription purchases yield the same or better results without harming innocent people? My heart breaks for anyone who accidentally becomes addicted through their use of a prescription drug, but I would think that requiring doctors to follow up with patients before supplying refills would identify these cases. I would rather see efforts increased to help treat those few, who would be more receptive to help it seems. It isn’t usually the family members of someone needing the drugs legitimately that would sell them, knowing how much the person actually needs them to function. However, I had a family member that wouldn’t hesitate to “borrow” some Vicodin from my elderly mother who had a script but only needed them occasionally for arthritis pain. I think the more common scenario for those selling them would be teens or young adults who steal them from the homes of their friends or extended family members so they can make a quick buck selling them to their friends. And as for knowing where to get heroin, I would venture to guess that almost everybody is less than six degrees of separation away from knowing someone who could get their hands on it if they asked around.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on May 8, 2018 14:40:51 GMT
I think billboards and other social media information can be quite valuable. I read recently very alarming statistics on how addictive opiods are, how fast you can get addicted through an informatiooal campaign. If I remember correctly, something like 20% of all users will get addicted with 14 days of use. And it's not uncommon to get handed a prescription for that long. I had NO idea some people can get addicted so fast. I forwarded that article to everyone I know.
It's really important to know that because many doctors are still handing out prescriptions like lollipops. I have a relative who went to the ER after an accident and the doctor gave her a prescription for oxy very casually. No warnings, no discussions of pain managment options, just a prescription for a wildly addictive drug. She did not ask for pain meds at all. He just handed it to her. She had read the article and shredded the paper when she got home. I have a friend who was injured on the job -- very minor injury -- and the employer insisted she go to the doctor. She insisted she was fine at the doctor and was just there to make her employer happy, but to her shock, he gave her a prescription for oxy. She had read the article too and destroyed the prescription What if these patients had been more passive and thought they should just do what the doctors ordered? They could have been part of the epidemic.
Maybe doctors are being monitored, but I still know of so many people who get handed prescriptions for oxy as if it's aspirin that I have a hard time believing teh monitoring has any teeth.
Education can save lives. It really can.
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,811
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on May 8, 2018 15:28:37 GMT
I’m glad to see a change in how doctors prescribe narcotics. My 84 year old dad had fairly severe arthritis pain, his doctor gave him a script for 120 #10 Vicodin every month, knowing my dad was alcoholic. Surprisingly, my dad did not become addicted to the Vicodin. This amount is excessive, and yet at the time I didn’t think much about it.
The issue of opiate addiction is multi-faceted problem. Restricting prescribing is a start to fixing the problem, but there needs to be treatment instead of throwing users in jail. The use of recreational street drugs will probably never completely go away, but careful prescribing by doctors may prevent someone from becoming addicted after a surgery or injury.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on May 8, 2018 15:54:25 GMT
I have Fibromyalgia and have been on various Facebook groups inhabited by people who were Rx'd opioids. When they were cut off they became whining, shrieking, wretches. I have never taken heavy duty drugs and manage my condition with careful pacing and the lightest dosage of meds that allow me to function.
I'm not blaming the people who have been set with their opioid dependence, but it needs to somehow be stopped. Doctors refusing to Rx is the only way I see of stopping it.
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Post by dewryce on May 8, 2018 16:04:57 GMT
I have Fibromyalgia and have been on various Facebook groups inhabited by people who were Rx'd opioids. When they were cut off they became whining, shrieking, wretches. I have never taken heavy duty drugs and manage my condition with careful pacing and the lightest dosage of meds that allow me to function. I'm not blaming the people who have been set with their opioid dependence, but it needs to somehow be stopped. Doctors refusing to Rx is the only way I see of stopping it. I am my "least pleasant" when I am in pain, and I find it extremely hard to control when the pain is high. Add withdrawal to it? I understand their whines and shrieks. You're fortunate to be able to function without the heavy duty drugs, I'm glad for you.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2018 16:15:23 GMT
I absolutely think doctors are a huge part of the problem. In particular, minor surgeries where they not only give you excessive pills but utterly push the "stay on top of the pain" message to a point of ridiculousness IMO. In the last 5 years, our family has had 5 different surgeries - all relatively minor. In no case did we not leave without a prescription of at least 15 days (and that was for a 13 year old) and in most cases were 30 days. In NONE of those surgeries was anything other than ibuprofen needed. In every single case there were multiple warnings by the medical team about not waiting to take pain meds - in NO CASE was there a discussion about the potential addictive nature of these drugs by the doctor. As studies show 14 DAYS of use will cause a chemical addiction - doctors should damn sure stop writing prescriptions for 30 days without an excessive discussion with the patient. www.consumerreports.org/drugs/knee-surgery-linked-to-painkiller-addiction/
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Post by dewryce on May 8, 2018 16:21:52 GMT
I absolutely think doctors are a huge part of the problem. In particular, minor surgeries where they not only give you excessive pills but utterly push the "stay on top of the pain" message to a point of ridiculousness IMO. In the last 5 years, our family has had 5 different surgeries - all relatively minor. In no case did we not leave without a prescription of at least 15 days (and that was for a 13 year old) and in most cases were 30 days. In NONE of those surgeries was anything other than ibuprofen needed. In every single case there were multiple warnings by the medical team about not waiting to take pain meds - in NO CASE was there a discussion about the potential addictive nature of these drugs by the doctor. As studies show 14 DAYS of use will cause a chemical addiction - doctors should damn sure stop writing prescriptions for 30 days without an excessive discussion with the patient. www.consumerreports.org/drugs/knee-surgery-linked-to-painkiller-addiction/As a chronic pain sufferer, and having had surgery within the past few years I agree with them completely about staying on top of the pain. However, that can often be done with OTC pain meds and adding in the heavier medication only if/when the OTC doses aren't working. And opiods absolutely need to come with a good discussion about addiction. So irresponsible when they don't! For me, I found early on they were handed out like it was no big deal, but that has not been the case the past several years.
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Post by birukitty on May 8, 2018 16:26:15 GMT
My sister who is also my best friend is in chronic, intense pain. There are many days she has confided to me that she has considered killing herself just to make the pain stop. She has many health issues which I won't go into here and has been on disability for many years. In the last couple of years here in Maryland she has had to fight tooth and nail in order to get her pain relief prescriptions filled. She has to go to a pain clinic, sign paperwork saying she won't smoke cigarettes, do a monthly urine test so they can check for illicit drug use, and as the weeks go by they reduce her pain medication more and more to the point now where it is almost intolerable. She has years and years of documented records to prove that she needs this medication and this is still happening. All because of the opioid epidemic. The same epidemic which counts illicit heroin use when it makes up it's opioid figures!
This is insane in my opinion. While I understand the idea of trying to protect the general public from opioid addiction (which I do realize is very easy to fall into with pain medication) it should not come at the expense of patients who are daily struggling with excruciating pain. I'm talking about pain that makes it difficult for you to breath. That kind of pain. Pain that makes your life unbearable.
The government does nothing to try to protect us from alcoholism by limiting our access to alcohol (other than the age limits) so why should this be any different? The access to pain medication (opioids) is much more strictly controlled (even before this crisis) than alcohol ever was not counting prohibition. Just trying to throw an analogy out there. I think our government is overreaching here. I don't need a "father figure" to protect me from my actions regarding taking opioids for pain medications. If my doctor prescribes a valid medication (opioid) for pain medication it is up to me as an adult to use it sensibly. If I don't that's on me.
If you've never yourself been in that kind of chronic pain or had a family member I don't think you understand this side of the opioid issue. As far as selling them on the street? What? My sister treats her pain medication like gold as another Pea mentioned. She'd rather sell her liver on the street than her pain medication. It's the only thing that barely gets her through the day. At 6:00 pm it wears off and she doesn't have any to get her through the night so she has to suffer until the morning due to the recent stricter bans.
When I was traveling in Germany last May I met a female doctor while I was having dinner alone in one of the towns I was travelling in. She was having dinner alone so we got to talking. We ended up talking for 2 1/2 hours. One of the things we talked about was health care USA vs. Germany. I told her about my sister and lack of pain medication and she said that would never happen in Germany. She said patients are taken care of that are in chronic pain and are made sure to be made comfortable and not to suffer.
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Post by ntsf on May 8, 2018 16:29:10 GMT
my dh used strong pain meds for 30 yrs. he has gone through multiple surgeries.. and often big deal things.. growing bone, muscle transplants. etc. he never had a problem with the pain meds.. and has maintained a functional life due to pain meds. now, with the new controls, his doc won't give them to him anymore.. though they are more effective than the combo of tylenol and advil he must take now. he gets bone pain very often.. so the pain meds allowed him to live a good life and it is harder now.
but he does not have an addictive brain.. maybe if we had a single payer system.. the one system showing your whole medical history would help monitor the ones who try to abuse the drugs.
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Post by dewryce on May 8, 2018 16:38:15 GMT
birukitty I'm so sorry about, and for your sister. Even as someone with bipolar disorder with extreme depression I never understood actually wanting to die. I was fine existing in a semi-comatose state in my depression, except for what it did to my family. But then chronic pain became an issue and it was a sad, scary day when I realized...I understood. Until I got the severe pain better controlled I could not fathom living the rest of my life in that kind of pain. I didn't realize heroin was counted in the numbers. Logically, of course it is, but I feel like they should also have seperate representation for pain medication as avoiding and fighting the addiction is so different. I applaud the efforts to stop hand them out like candy, I think a huge effort needs to be made to educate people when they are prescribed, but it kills me when the systems they put in place to stop people from abusing the system make people like your sister suffer.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 8, 2018 16:43:37 GMT
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Post by not2peased on May 8, 2018 17:00:38 GMT
a nationwide DEA database that lists all prescriptions for every patient, would go a long way towards preventing over access to drugs from doctor shoppers. If you go to fill your scrip, the pharmacist should be able to easily view all your prescriptions and when they were last filled. This database should be view-able by doctor's offices, hospitals, etc
Pharmacists and doctors can get a list, but it's not fast-it needs to be setup so that you cant write or fill a scrip if someone has exceeded their allotment of specific classes of medication.
that doesn't do anything for heroin addicts though-many of whom switch to heroin when they can't get their pain meds filled. or can't afford the medication anymore.
I honestly believe that mindfulness based stress reduction should be taught to ALL kids in public schools on an ongoing basis, starting in grade school. self medication of anxiety and depression are two things that are almost always present in addicts and if people were taught adequate coping mechanisms for these two issues alone, we could probably cut abuse by more than 50% IMO. Add in mental health therapy readily available to all who need it, and I think the problem could be beaten before it even begins in most cases.
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Post by not2peased on May 8, 2018 17:13:56 GMT
I absolutely think doctors are a huge part of the problem. In particular, minor surgeries where they not only give you excessive pills but utterly push the "stay on top of the pain" message to a point of ridiculousness IMO. In the last 5 years, our family has had 5 different surgeries - all relatively minor. In no case did we not leave without a prescription of at least 15 days (and that was for a 13 year old) and in most cases were 30 days. In NONE of those surgeries was anything other than ibuprofen needed. In every single case there were multiple warnings by the medical team about not waiting to take pain meds - in NO CASE was there a discussion about the potential addictive nature of these drugs by the doctor. As studies show 14 DAYS of use will cause a chemical addiction - doctors should damn sure stop writing prescriptions for 30 days without an excessive discussion with the patient. www.consumerreports.org/drugs/knee-surgery-linked-to-painkiller-addiction/This is so different from our experience as well. Man, we live by the motto "stay on top of the pain" when my dgd has surgeries. Generally she has a block of some sort in place at first, then goes to IV. When we can get to the point of tightly scheduling her meds and switch to oral, she is able to be released to a nearby "Ronald McDonald House" type place and we will stay there for a couple days or so as she gradually spreads the doses further and further between, eliminating them one at a time. She would still be medicated as we travel back home, and at home we continue to wean down the doses until she can just do the tylenol/advil rotation. To not stay on top of the pain after surgery means we suddenly have a child who is screaming in pain and pretty much losing her mind. Not something we ever want to see again. It is really hard to get it back under control after that. Our medical team's advice for us is to worry more about the long term psychological damage from the trauma of serious pain after repeated surgeries, than to worry that she will become addicted as we are weaning the meds down. I know we have never had what would be a 30 day supply. So maybe in the big picture they are conservative, just not in the immediate. doctors are re-thinking the whole "stay on top of the pain" as it relates to post surgical pain. being in pain isn't viewed as a totally unacceptable state of being these days, and while agony is generally not viewed as something desirable, some level of pain or pain that isn't adequately controlled for periods of time isn't the bad thing it was. after my husband's hip replacement surgery, he was given 5 days worth of opioids and that was it. he experienced a LOT of pain for some time after stopping his opioids-he just had to live with it Have you considered how easy it would be for your dgd to become an addict? you are giving an air of "us vs. them" when you discuss her opioid use (perhaps not intentional) but anyone who takes any sort of pain meds, and yes, that includes people who need them like your dgd- can, and do become addicts-even with very careful monitoring or after an age in which the adults can't monitor and control behavior. I'd be very hesitant about patting myself on the back, when for a lot of folks, addiction very much is a "there, but for the grace of god" issue for many. many addicts started out just like your family member-someone with a genuine need for pain medication for legitimate reasons.
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Post by Kelpea on May 8, 2018 17:22:25 GMT
I'm happy to answer your query.
Opioid addiction is an addiction that has officially crossed all economic, social, ethnic and cultural barriers. I sure wish opioids had been better regulated until now. My mother died in October, years before she should have, due mostly to her addiction. She died in a horrible manner.
She was from an affluent family with a nice monthly pension. She had a nice apartment. She had a nice sport car. I'm sharing this because she didn't fit the profile of an "addict." Until now. If I'm not mistaken, opioid addicts among this demographic are the fastest growing group of addicts.
My sister, daughter and I performed an intervention last May. She politely refused. She continued to doctor shop, faked pain to get morphine shots in the ER, etc. This is not the life she chose for herself during her retirement years. Her addiction grew out of two car accidents that left her in severe physical pain.
She mastered the art of obtaining the meds. Due to patient confidentiality, when she doctor shopped, the next doctor had no idea of her previous prescriptions from her former doctors.
Addiction is a disease. People do not CHOOSE to become addicted. One is either chemically "made up" to be an addict, or they aren't. Those who don't become addicts are the lucky ones.
Not to be flippant, but I'm not at all sorry for increased opioid management. It is long past due. Maybe my mom would still be alive today if scripts had been more rigorously managed. The past 11 months have been the worst year of my life. I miss her every day. As do my babies.
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Post by not2peased on May 8, 2018 17:31:06 GMT
my husband suffered physical withdrawal from his pain meds after taking them for only 5 days. It was pretty bad. He has a strong family and personal history with addiction (not pain meds) and we were both shocked at how little time it took for him to feel physically dependent on the meds.
since we are both very well versed on addiction and the dangers of opioid addiction in particular, he was able to get through it, but if he hadn't had support and didn't know how easy it is to become addicted, he could have easily gotten more meds from his doctor and who knows where that might have led.
FIVE days was all it took-it's really scary
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Post by birukitty on May 8, 2018 17:32:37 GMT
birukitty I'm so sorry about, and for your sister. Even as someone with bipolar disorder with extreme depression I never understood actually wanting to die. I was fine existing in a semi-comatose state in my depression, except for what it did to my family. But then chronic pain became an issue and it was a sad, scary day when I realized...I understood. Until I got the severe pain better controlled I could not fathom living the rest of my life in that kind of pain. I didn't realize heroin was counted in the numbers. Logically, of course it is, but I feel like they should also have seperate representation for pain medication as avoiding and fighting the addiction is so different. I applaud the efforts to stop hand them out like candy, I think a huge effort needs to be made to educate people when they are prescribed, but it kills me when the systems they put in place to stop people from abusing the system make people like your sister suffer. Thanks so much Dewryce for your kinds words and thoughts. They mean a lot to me. I understand exactly what you mean about depression and not wanting to die. I myself went through 10 years of what was diagnosed as "treatment resistant depression" and not once did I want to die-I was more or less catatonic-just "blah". I am so worried about my sister, but she's been telling me lately she's been feeling a bit better about continuing to live even though she's in more pain these days. I don't know if she's just telling me that to make me feel less stress or not-I hope not. Most people don't realize heroin is included in the numbers. That's why when the "opioid crisis" is mentioned all you ever hear about is an uproar over pain medication. I agree with you completely-they should have a completely separate number-facts and figures for pain medication addiction. I also agree with you that education is key. Handing out an informative flyer with each prescription filled warning about the dangers of how easily those pain medications can become addicting, how to avoid it, how to carefully take them and so on would be a great first step. Each pharmacy worker can point out to the customer that the flyer is inside the bag and how important it is to read it. Then I think it is up to the patient. People need to accept responsibility at that point in my opinion. Do we really want a government that holds our hands like a Big Brother? The other restrictions are already in place. The doctors I have come across (and I see a lot of doctors) aren't handing them out like candy, but are very careful these days not to do so at least here in Maryland. I of course believe the Peas who have said otherwise. So maybe that is changing. In fact when I had my rotator cuff surgery in 2016 I was in agony when I woke up (because I'm basically immune to Lidocaine (like Novacaine I metabolize it super quick so it takes double the amount for me) and they used that for the nerve block-forgot to tell the doctor that) and I had to beg and beg the nurse for some pain medication. She finally let me have one pill (forgot what it was-something narcotic) orally but made me wait until I ate some applesauce which took about an hour from waking up time until she agreed. I have no idea why she didn't just put it into my IV. That didn't even touch the pain and I had to beg and beg again until she finally gave me another one and that just touched the edge of it. Worse experience of my life. Mean nurse. I guess she didn't believe me about the nerve block not working. But I don't lie-I get it from my Dad. Hate it when you are telling the truth and people don't believe you. Lying makes me feel so guilty inside. I mean, couldn't she tell by how much pain I was in that I was telling the truth? I guess a lot of people lie to get narcotics so they are used to seeing it? Ruins it for those of us who are in actual pain.
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Post by birukitty on May 8, 2018 17:47:04 GMT
This is so different from our experience as well. Man, we live by the motto "stay on top of the pain" when my dgd has surgeries. Generally she has a block of some sort in place at first, then goes to IV. When we can get to the point of tightly scheduling her meds and switch to oral, she is able to be released to a nearby "Ronald McDonald House" type place and we will stay there for a couple days or so as she gradually spreads the doses further and further between, eliminating them one at a time. She would still be medicated as we travel back home, and at home we continue to wean down the doses until she can just do the tylenol/advil rotation. To not stay on top of the pain after surgery means we suddenly have a child who is screaming in pain and pretty much losing her mind. Not something we ever want to see again. It is really hard to get it back under control after that. Our medical team's advice for us is to worry more about the long term psychological damage from the trauma of serious pain after repeated surgeries, than to worry that she will become addicted as we are weaning the meds down. I know we have never had what would be a 30 day supply. So maybe in the big picture they are conservative, just not in the immediate. doctors are re-thinking the whole "stay on top of the pain" as it relates to post surgical pain. being in pain isn't viewed as a totally unacceptable state of being these days, and while agony is generally not viewed as something desirable, some level of pain or pain that isn't adequately controlled for periods of time isn't the bad thing it was. after my husband's hip replacement surgery, he was given 5 days worth of opioids and that was it. he experienced a LOT of pain for some time after stopping his opioids-he just had to live with it Have you considered how easy it would be for your dgd to become an addict? you are giving an air of "us vs. them" when you discuss her opioid use (perhaps not intentional) but anyone who takes any sort of pain meds, and yes, that includes people who need them like your dgd- can, and do become addicts-even with very careful monitoring or after an age in which the adults can't monitor and control behavior. I'd be very hesitant about patting myself on the back, when for a lot of folks, addiction very much is a "there, but for the grace of god" issue for many. many addicts started out just like your family member-someone with a genuine need for pain medication for legitimate reasons. I'm sorry not2pleased but I think you owe beachgurl an apology. Your post to her sounds to me to be a slap on the wrist when you wrote, "I'd be very hesitant about patting myself on the back". Beachgurl wrote about her granddaughter's experience with multiple surgeries and her pain medication afterwards. She and her daughter's family are following the medical team's advice regarding pain medication and are following it so that her granddaughter won't have long term psychological damage from the trauma of serious pain after repeated surgeries, instead of being worried she will become an addict. Her parents are controlling the granddaughter's medication very carefully from what it sounds like. You came back and in my opinion slapped her on the wrist and told her how easy it would be for her granddaughter to become an addict. Not everyone who takes pain medication becomes addicted to it. I'm glad your husband was able to bear the pain after his hip replacement surgery but he is an adult. Beachgurl's granddaughter is a child. Big difference. She isn't old enough to comprehend that the pain will stop and when, how to push through it and everything else that goes along with it. Beachgurl's granddaughter has an entire medical team looking after her and giving her parents advice. I think they are wise to take it.
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