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Post by redhead32 on Aug 16, 2018 18:56:03 GMT
It was in an article in the Wall Street Journal. WSJFull disclosure: I'm not a subscriber and haven't read the article - only the summaries from other media outlets. But the lead in para says the following:
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Aug 16, 2018 19:05:31 GMT
A different perspective on revoking security clearance of John Brennan by Joseph Curl Well, I wouldn’t necessarily compare this with Apple and its intellectual property. Just as Merge said, it’s also my understanding that the way our security agencies work is that they will periodically consult with heads or senior people who are no longer employed by the government, especially on matters inherited by the current admin, most especially matters of foreign affairs. That’s one of the reasons their security clearance is maintained. Of course, it hasn’t escaped me that former employees with a security clearance are able to easily acquire plum positions, speaking and TV gigs, consultancies in the private sector, because a security clearance lends them cachet or perceived authority. And I suppose an argument could be made that no president would want a vocal and prolific critic to be using his clearance to acquire information he can use against the president (why would you hand someone a stick to beat you up with?). But, isn’t this cutting your nose to spite your face – if the agencies rely on the knowledge and expertise of these former heads, what good does it serve to revoke their clearance?
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 11:34:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 19:38:02 GMT
It was in an article in the Wall Street Journal. WSJFull disclosure: I'm not a subscriber and haven't read the article - only the summaries from other media outlets. But the lead in para says the following: It won't let me read it without subscribing and I'd like to hear what Trump himself said, not an interpretation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 11:34:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 19:39:22 GMT
A different perspective on revoking security clearance of John Brennan by Joseph Curl Well, I wouldn’t necessarily compare this with Apple and its intellectual property. Just as Merge said, it’s also my understanding that the way our security agencies work is that they will periodically consult with heads or senior people who are no longer employed by the government, especially on matters inherited by the current admin, most especially matters of foreign affairs. That’s one of the reasons their security clearance is maintained. Of course, it hasn’t escaped me that former employees with a security clearance are able to easily acquire plum positions, speaking and TV gigs, consultancies in the private sector, because a security clearance lends them cachet or perceived authority. And I suppose an argument could be made that no president would want a vocal and prolific critic to be using his clearance to acquire information he can use against the president (why would you hand someone a stick to beat you up with?). But, isn’t this cutting your nose to spite your face – if the agencies rely on the knowledge and expertise of these former heads, what good does it serve to revoke their clearance? I'm not sure what good it would do to rely on help from someone hell bent on undermining your success.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 16, 2018 19:45:22 GMT
Well, I wouldn’t necessarily compare this with Apple and its intellectual property. Just as Merge said, it’s also my understanding that the way our security agencies work is that they will periodically consult with heads or senior people who are no longer employed by the government, especially on matters inherited by the current admin, most especially matters of foreign affairs. That’s one of the reasons their security clearance is maintained. Of course, it hasn’t escaped me that former employees with a security clearance are able to easily acquire plum positions, speaking and TV gigs, consultancies in the private sector, because a security clearance lends them cachet or perceived authority. And I suppose an argument could be made that no president would want a vocal and prolific critic to be using his clearance to acquire information he can use against the president (why would you hand someone a stick to beat you up with?). But, isn’t this cutting your nose to spite your face – if the agencies rely on the knowledge and expertise of these former heads, what good does it serve to revoke their clearance? I'm not sure what good it would do to rely on help from someone hell bent on undermining your success. It’s crystal clear with you making this statement that you rather would believe the proven lies that trump and this administration has issued. The point is that no matter who the person, if they disagree and rightfully so, trump attacks them, gets petty, calls them names and then goes on a hell hath no fury bender to use the media to disparage them, ruin them, destroy their reputation and lives—all because they tell the truth and/or disagree with him and/or prove his statements as a big fat lie. While you say that this is “undermining his success”, it is so not that at all. It’s dangerous for the US. But you do you and continue to advocate for him. Because that’s exactly what your doing.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,305
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Aug 16, 2018 20:01:02 GMT
Brennan's security clearance should have been revoked a long time ago. He lied to Congress about CIA employees hacking into the computers of members of the Senate Intelligence Committee staff, he lied about drone strikes not killing civilians, he lied about collecting data on millions of Americans. Then there's his support for the US communist party. Even the ACLU didn't want him appointed head of the CIA.
Brennan was dangerous to the US, revoking his security clearance isn't.
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Post by Merge on Aug 16, 2018 20:26:04 GMT
Couple things, in the vein of “facts matter:” Brennan worked in the CIA under six different administrations, Republican and Democratic. He’s hardly a partisan appointee. Two, the author’s assertion that our DOJ has suddenly been “hyper-politicized” is fantasy, so it doesn’t stand up as a reason to start revoking clearances. There are many reasons why former officials keep their clearance. It doesn’t mean that they are given access to all the inner workings of the CIA (bad analogy from the author). It means that if Mike Pompeo wants advice from someone with experience in a certain arena, it’s not illegal for him to share limited classified information with that person within the scope of the question. Pompeo is on record as saying that he’s asked Brennan’s advice on classified matters. This is a valid thing. Experience and institutional memory are important. All this is moot, though, as Trump has now come out and said that the clearance removal was political. We don’t need any further palavering from his supporters about what the “real” reasons might have been. He told us straight up why he did it. I must have missed that, what exactly did Trump say? Do you have a quote or link to a quote? Not saying he didn't, just that I'm not aware of him doing so. Here’s a link where CNN quotes the WSJ interview article: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/08/16/politics/donald-trump-brennan-security-clearance/index.htmlTrump’s own words on the revocation, quoted by the WSJ when they interviewed him. “I call it the rigged witch hunt, (it) is a sham. And these people led it!" Trump said in the interview, a full transcript of which was not immediately published by the newspaper. "So I think it's something that had to be done." I’ll concede that the full interview, when released, may provide different context ... but the words as quoted aren’t really open to interpretation. He’s revoking clearances of people he believes are involved in the “rigged witch hunt.” Doesn’t get much more political than that.
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Post by Merge on Aug 16, 2018 20:28:47 GMT
Brennan's security clearance should have been revoked a long time ago. He lied to Congress about CIA employees hacking into the computers of members of the Senate Intelligence Committee staff, he lied about drone strikes not killing civilians, he lied about collecting data on millions of Americans. Then there's his support for the US communist party. Even the ACLU didn't want him appointed head of the CIA. Brennan was dangerous to the US, revoking his security clearance isn't. You know, I’m not going to argue that Brennan isn’t a loose cannon. He totally is. But that isn’t why Trump revoked his clearance and “may” revoke the clearances of several others. He did or will do it as retaliation for these folks’ part in an investigation against him - and that is dangerous no matter how you spin it. The why matters a lot here because he’s setting precedent for future presidents. We really don’t want to be a place where leaders can use their constitutional powers to punish political opponents. That’s not good for either side or for us as a country.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 11:34:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 20:35:23 GMT
I’ll concede that the full interview, when released, may provide different context ... And we've most definitely seen that before - even with the context and words that clearly show the meaning of what was said, you still had people the refused to acknowledge the truth and continued arguing what was undeniably not reality. The MS13 animal comment comes to mind.
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Post by Merge on Aug 16, 2018 20:50:05 GMT
I’ll concede that the full interview, when released, may provide different context ... And we've most definitely seen that before - even with the context and words that clearly show the meaning of what was said, you still had people the refused to acknowledge the truth and continued arguing what was undeniably not reality. The MS13 animal comment comes to mind. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I don’t think the context on the MS-13 comment provided the cover that you obviously think it did. The context of Trump’s repeated previous words and behavior also has to be considered in any case like that. And it’s not pretty.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 11:34:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 20:58:49 GMT
And we've most definitely seen that before - even with the context and words that clearly show the meaning of what was said, you still had people the refused to acknowledge the truth and continued arguing what was undeniably not reality. The MS13 animal comment comes to mind. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I don’t think the context on the MS-13 comment provided the cover that you obviously think it did. The context of Trump’s repeated previous words and behavior also has to be considered in any case like that. And it’s not pretty. When you respond to a comment on MS13 and you say they're animals, it's stretching reality to say you aren't talking about MS13. And you're doing that because you want a certain narrative to be true. Dare I say need it to be true. Much like Bill Maher wishing for the economy to tank and destroy millions financially, just so he could be right about Trump. It's sick.
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Post by cade387 on Aug 16, 2018 23:39:54 GMT
A different perspective on revoking security clearance of John Brennan by Joseph Curl I don’t agree with this assessment, nor do I agree comparing it to Apple or another private company. I believe if you violate protocol then you should lose your security clearance. In this case, Brennan has not done that and he is a widely respected member of the intelligence community. If, in the future, other officers want to consult on an issue that is sensitive/classified it is very common to go to people like Brennan for information they may have and/or their opinion on a possible future mission/target/strategy. By removing clearance from these knowledgeable folks it hurts the current intelligence community and is bad for America. It isn’t like they can go to just anyone on these issues. I think seeing other prominent military folks offering to give back their clearance in his defense says a lot to me. If Trump feels that Brennan has violated a rule and been careless with information then the revocation of clearance should applied to the same standard and Flynn and Trump should have lost their clearance when they have shared classified information. It should not be used punitively against the enemies of Trump. This is Nixon’s list on steroids IMO.
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 16, 2018 23:57:14 GMT
Could the next President reinstate it? I kind feel like the next Prez is going to spend his/her time just cleaning up so many messes.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 17, 2018 1:00:54 GMT
Could the next President reinstate it? I kind feel like the next Prez is going to spend his/her time just cleaning up so many messes. I don't know, but I do know it is a complicated procedure. Remember Jared didn't get his until fairly recently and I am not sure it is top level.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,083
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Aug 17, 2018 2:39:44 GMT
All this is moot, though, as Trump has now come out and said that the clearance removal was political. We don’t need any further palavering from his supporters about what the “real” reasons might have been. He told us straight up why he did it. But...but...but...that may not be what he MEANT when he said that.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Aug 17, 2018 3:47:20 GMT
Can the President Revoke Former Officials’ Security Clearances?This is a very interesting article about the options regarding a POTUS revoking former officials' security clearances. The article was written on 23 July, before the Brennan action, which makes the title rather a moot point. It doesn't explain why former officials traditionally keep their security clearances (but that reason can be found anywhere with a simple Google search, even this Fox article, as it's a logical one and not a secret at all), but does mention that, until Trump, no POTUS had revoked a security clearance. BTW, Trump, himself, stated that he revoked the clearance not because Brennan was a threat to the security of the United States, but because Brennan has been part of the Russian investigation. In Trump's interview with the WSJ on Wednesday, he said, "I call it the rigged witch hunt, [it] is a sham. And these people led it!” Trump told the paper. “So I think it’s something that had to be done."
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 17, 2018 8:14:44 GMT
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Post by gar on Aug 17, 2018 8:33:41 GMT
It’s staggering that he handles everything in such a childish way without, seemingly, any view of the bigger, long term picture. A less suitable individual for such an important office is probably only matched by some third world travesties.
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Post by pierkiss on Aug 17, 2018 16:43:11 GMT
A different perspective on revoking security clearance of John Brennan by Joseph Curl Couple things, in the vein of “facts matter:” Brennan worked in the CIA under six different administrations, Republican and Democratic. He’s hardly a partisan appointee. Two, the author’s assertion that our DOJ has suddenly been “hyper-politicized” is fantasy, so it doesn’t stand up as a reason to start revoking clearances. There are many reasons why former officials keep their clearance. It doesn’t mean that they are given access to all the inner workings of the CIA (bad analogy from the author). It means that if Mike Pompeo wants advice from someone with experience in a certain arena, it’s not illegal for him to share limited classified information with that person within the scope of the question. Pompeo is on record as saying that he’s asked Brennan’s advice on classified matters. This is a valid thing. Experience and institutional memory are important. All this is moot, though, as Trump has now come out and said that the clearance removal was political. We don’t need any further palavering from his supporters about what the “real” reasons might have been. He told us straight up why he did it. YES!
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 11:34:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 4:52:15 GMT
Sen. Ben Sasse gives a civics lesson during the confirmation hearings. "Since your nomination in July, you've been accused of hating women, hating children, hating clean air, wanting dirty water. You've been declared [an] "existential threat" to our nation. Alumni of Yale Law School, incensed that faculty members at your alma mater praised your selection, wrote a public letter to the school saying "people will die" if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed. This drivel is patently absurd, and I worry that we're going to hear more of it over the next few days – but the good news is, it is absurd and the American people don't believe any of it...
You've earned high praise from the many lawyers, both Right and Left, who have appeared before you during her twelve years on the D.C. Circuit and those who have had you as a professor at Yale Law and at Harvard Law. People in legal circles invariably applaud your mind, your work, your temperament, your collegiality. That's who Brett Kavanaugh is. And to quote Lisa Blatt, a Supreme Court attorney from the Left who's know you for a decade, "Sometimes a superstar is just a superstar, and that's the case with this judge. The Senate should confirm him."
It's pretty obvious to most people going about their work today that the deranged comments don't actually have anything to do with you. So, we should figure out, why do we talk like this about Supreme Court nominations now? There's a bunch that's atypical in the last 19, 20 months in America...
But really, the reason these hearings don't work is not because of Donald Trump, it's not because of anything [in the] last 20 months. These confirmation hearings haven't worked for 31 years in America. People are gonna pretend that Americans have no historical memory and supposedly there haven't been screaming protesters saying "women are gonna die" at every hearing for decades – but this has been happening since Robert Bork. This is a 31-year tradition. There's nothing really new the last 18 months.
So, the fact the hysteria has nothing to do with you means that we should ask, what's the hysteria coming from? The hysteria around Supreme Court confirmation hearings is coming from the fact that we have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Supreme Court in American life now. Our political commentary talks about the Supreme Court like they're people wearing red and blue jerseys. That's a really dangerous thing...
It's predictable that every confirmation hearing now is going to be [an] overblown, politicized circus, and it's because we've accepted a new theory about how our three branches of government should work, and in particular, how the judiciary should work.
What Supreme Court confirmation hearings should be about is an opportunity to go back and do "Schoolhouse Rock" civics for our kids. We should be talking about how a bill becomes a law, and what the job of Article II is, and what the job of Article III is. So let's try just a little bit. How did we get here and how can we fix it?"
"Number 1: In our system, the legislative branch is supposed to be the center of our politics. Number 2: It's not. Why not? Because for the last century, and increasing by the decade right now, more and more legislative authority is delegated to the executive branch every year. Both parties do it. The legislature is impotent; the legislature is weak; and most people want their jobs more than they really want to do legislative work and so they punt most of the work to the next branch.
[The] third consequence is that this transfer of power means the people yearn for a place where politics can actually be done – and when we don't do a lot of big actual political debating here, we transfer it to the Supreme Court, and that's why the Supreme Court is increasingly a substitute political battleground in America. It is not healthy, but it is what happens, and it's something that our Founders wouldn't be able to make any sense of. Fourth and finally, we badly need to restore the proper duties and balance of power from our constitutional system."
There's more, if you're interested you could google it to see the full video.
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Post by cade387 on Sept 5, 2018 7:36:43 GMT
Sen. Ben Sasse gives a civics lesson during the confirmation hearings. "Since your nomination in July, you've been accused of hating women, hating children, hating clean air, wanting dirty water. You've been declared [an] "existential threat" to our nation. Alumni of Yale Law School, incensed that faculty members at your alma mater praised your selection, wrote a public letter to the school saying "people will die" if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed. This drivel is patently absurd, and I worry that we're going to hear more of it over the next few days – but the good news is, it is absurd and the American people don't believe any of it... You've earned high praise from the many lawyers, both Right and Left, who have appeared before you during her twelve years on the D.C. Circuit and those who have had you as a professor at Yale Law and at Harvard Law. People in legal circles invariably applaud your mind, your work, your temperament, your collegiality. That's who Brett Kavanaugh is. And to quote Lisa Blatt, a Supreme Court attorney from the Left who's know you for a decade, "Sometimes a superstar is just a superstar, and that's the case with this judge. The Senate should confirm him." It's pretty obvious to most people going about their work today that the deranged comments don't actually have anything to do with you. So, we should figure out, why do we talk like this about Supreme Court nominations now? There's a bunch that's atypical in the last 19, 20 months in America... But really, the reason these hearings don't work is not because of Donald Trump, it's not because of anything [in the] last 20 months. These confirmation hearings haven't worked for 31 years in America. People are gonna pretend that Americans have no historical memory and supposedly there haven't been screaming protesters saying "women are gonna die" at every hearing for decades – but this has been happening since Robert Bork. This is a 31-year tradition. There's nothing really new the last 18 months. So, the fact the hysteria has nothing to do with you means that we should ask, what's the hysteria coming from? The hysteria around Supreme Court confirmation hearings is coming from the fact that we have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Supreme Court in American life now. Our political commentary talks about the Supreme Court like they're people wearing red and blue jerseys. That's a really dangerous thing... It's predictable that every confirmation hearing now is going to be [an] overblown, politicized circus, and it's because we've accepted a new theory about how our three branches of government should work, and in particular, how the judiciary should work. What Supreme Court confirmation hearings should be about is an opportunity to go back and do "Schoolhouse Rock" civics for our kids. We should be talking about how a bill becomes a law, and what the job of Article II is, and what the job of Article III is. So let's try just a little bit. How did we get here and how can we fix it?" "Number 1: In our system, the legislative branch is supposed to be the center of our politics. Number 2: It's not. Why not? Because for the last century, and increasing by the decade right now, more and more legislative authority is delegated to the executive branch every year. Both parties do it. The legislature is impotent; the legislature is weak; and most people want their jobs more than they really want to do legislative work and so they punt most of the work to the next branch. [The] third consequence is that this transfer of power means the people yearn for a place where politics can actually be done – and when we don't do a lot of big actual political debating here, we transfer it to the Supreme Court, and that's why the Supreme Court is increasingly a substitute political battleground in America. It is not healthy, but it is what happens, and it's something that our Founders wouldn't be able to make any sense of. Fourth and finally, we badly need to restore the proper duties and balance of power from our constitutional system." There's more, if you're interested you could google it to see the full video. I found his rant to not be a civics lesson in any way. How can ou see it as that? ? Condescending jerk is what I got. There are many cases with BK on the bench that people have issue with. Twisting the political process to punish people bringing charges to start and then let’s discuss how misleading he was during his previous hearing. IMO he did lie under oath. I didn’t feel this way about Gorsuch, many people didn’t. Sasse also forgot to touch on loyalty. That DT demands it. Therefore it is political and not a true addition to the judicial branch, but an extension of the executive reach to allow DT to be a king in his mind. If BK was worth a lick he wouldn’t want his hearing to go down like this. Gorsuch doesn’t have the same stain on him so it possible. Also, to say the American people want him ludicrous. He has a horrible rating with just about every one.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 5, 2018 10:59:44 GMT
Sen. Ben Sasse gives a civics lesson during the confirmation hearings. "Since your nomination in July, you've been accused of hating women, hating children, hating clean air, wanting dirty water. You've been declared [an] "existential threat" to our nation. Alumni of Yale Law School, incensed that faculty members at your alma mater praised your selection, wrote a public letter to the school saying "people will die" if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed. This drivel is patently absurd, and I worry that we're going to hear more of it over the next few days – but the good news is, it is absurd and the American people don't believe any of it... You've earned high praise from the many lawyers, both Right and Left, who have appeared before you during her twelve years on the D.C. Circuit and those who have had you as a professor at Yale Law and at Harvard Law. People in legal circles invariably applaud your mind, your work, your temperament, your collegiality. That's who Brett Kavanaugh is. And to quote Lisa Blatt, a Supreme Court attorney from the Left who's know you for a decade, "Sometimes a superstar is just a superstar, and that's the case with this judge. The Senate should confirm him." It's pretty obvious to most people going about their work today that the deranged comments don't actually have anything to do with you. So, we should figure out, why do we talk like this about Supreme Court nominations now? There's a bunch that's atypical in the last 19, 20 months in America... But really, the reason these hearings don't work is not because of Donald Trump, it's not because of anything [in the] last 20 months. These confirmation hearings haven't worked for 31 years in America. People are gonna pretend that Americans have no historical memory and supposedly there haven't been screaming protesters saying "women are gonna die" at every hearing for decades – but this has been happening since Robert Bork. This is a 31-year tradition. There's nothing really new the last 18 months. So, the fact the hysteria has nothing to do with you means that we should ask, what's the hysteria coming from? The hysteria around Supreme Court confirmation hearings is coming from the fact that we have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the Supreme Court in American life now. Our political commentary talks about the Supreme Court like they're people wearing red and blue jerseys. That's a really dangerous thing... It's predictable that every confirmation hearing now is going to be [an] overblown, politicized circus, and it's because we've accepted a new theory about how our three branches of government should work, and in particular, how the judiciary should work. What Supreme Court confirmation hearings should be about is an opportunity to go back and do "Schoolhouse Rock" civics for our kids. We should be talking about how a bill becomes a law, and what the job of Article II is, and what the job of Article III is. So let's try just a little bit. How did we get here and how can we fix it?" "Number 1: In our system, the legislative branch is supposed to be the center of our politics. Number 2: It's not. Why not? Because for the last century, and increasing by the decade right now, more and more legislative authority is delegated to the executive branch every year. Both parties do it. The legislature is impotent; the legislature is weak; and most people want their jobs more than they really want to do legislative work and so they punt most of the work to the next branch. [The] third consequence is that this transfer of power means the people yearn for a place where politics can actually be done – and when we don't do a lot of big actual political debating here, we transfer it to the Supreme Court, and that's why the Supreme Court is increasingly a substitute political battleground in America. It is not healthy, but it is what happens, and it's something that our Founders wouldn't be able to make any sense of. Fourth and finally, we badly need to restore the proper duties and balance of power from our constitutional system." There's more, if you're interested you could google it to see the full video. I swear I’m not trying I be rude. But aren’t the senators supposed to use their allotted time to talk to ask questions for the judge to answer? So that the senators can get a feel for whether or not this guy would be a good fit for the Supreme Court? To make an educated decision? I find it odd that he spent his time (which is what, 15 minutes? Please Correct me if I’m wrong) giving a lecture on how and why he believes this process is broken. To me, all this does is add to the hysterical nature surrounding Supreme Court picks.
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 5, 2018 12:27:45 GMT
The first day of the Hearings is for each member of the committee to voice their views of the Nominee, followed by the Nominees statement (usually much in response to what has been said about him), then the series of questions by each Member will start on Day 2.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 5, 2018 12:36:40 GMT
The first day of the Hearings is for each member of the committee to voice their views of the Nominee, followed by the Nominees statement (usually much in response to what has been said about him), then the series of questions by each Member will start on Day 2. Thank you! I didn’t know that. 😊
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