Preach it, John McCain

According to the Washington Post, it's not treasonous: "But enemies are defined very precisely under American treason law. An enemy is a nation or an organization with which the United States is in a declared or open war . Nations with whom we are formally at peace, such as Russia, are not enemies. (Indeed, a treason prosecution naming Russia as an enemy would be tantamount to a declaration of war.) Russia is a strategic adversary whose interests are frequently at odds with those of the United States, but for purposes of treason law it is no different than Canada or France or even the American Red Cross. The details of the alleged connections between Russia and Trump officials are therefore irrelevant to treason law.

This was true even in the 1950s, at the height of the Cold War. When Julius and Ethel Rosenberg handed over nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union, they were tried and executed for espionage, not treason. Indeed, Trump could give the U.S. nuclear codes to Vladimir Putin or bug the Oval Office with a direct line to the Kremlin and it would not be treason, as a legal matter. Of course, such conduct would violate various laws and would constitute grounds for impeachment as a “high crime and misdemeanor” — the framers fully understood that there could be cases of reprehensible disloyalty that might escape the narrow confines of the treason clause."

McCains statement is just words. Unless he and other republicans actually do something, their statements and tweets are meaningless.

Its the same as “thoughts and prayers” given after a tragedy.

Fucking meaningless.

And the current nominee for Supreme Court Justice was involved in that impeachment up to his eyeballs.

I knew someone was going to make that argument. That it was the lying under oath part that brought about the impeachment.

But the fact that he was investigated to the point of being under oath - for a sexual act that at worst represented an abuse of personal power - is a fine illustration of the problem, that was a personal matter that was inappropriate but it was still a personal matter that affected only those directly involved. The current administration is dirty to the core and is affecting the lives of not only millions of Americans but our status on the world stage. He threw our own intelligence community under the bus to make nice with Putin yesterday. And yet back when Bill Clinton screwed an intern, that was a full investigation and hearings and the whole deal. That was worthy of congressional action, this is not. Really? It’s really about lying under oath and that makes it not hypocrisy?

You remember this differently than I do. I think she actually helped McCain for a while. His campaign was struggling and after Obama's acceptance speech at the Democratic convention they knew they had to do something to shake it all up. I don't think anyone was beating Obama in 2008.

Once again we have something truly horrifying and our Republicans in congress are troubled by the president's actions. They are enablers and I hope they pay the price in November. It's disgusting. 

[bold mine]

Good grief. You’re reading a lot into what I wrote.

Which I thought was clearly not a defense.

The articles of impeachment did not list “fellatio” as the transgression, no matter what the intentions, so the distinction is part of the record and the discussion, as are the motivations. 

Making the distinction is a defense. It’s how Republicans have defended heir behavior during the Clinton investigation and ignored their own party’s President since before that President was even their candidate. Every time that distinction is made, it reinforces that what went on during Clinton’s presidency was somehow proper.

Even if you’re not, you’re using the same argument. Time for a better narrative. This one just reinforces the idea that what Clinton did was somehow criminal as opposed to improper.

mustlovecats  AmeliaBloomer was pointing out to me a Brit that the actual Impeachment wasn't for the sex act. She was in no defending what I said ( which on reflection I could have worded better originally as I did actually know it was for the lying) she made that quite clear in her second paragraph.
You can bet your bottom dollar that someone else would have jumped at the chance to derail this thread using my words if she hadn't corrected it.

Exactly.

That affair wasn’t a criminal act. Only the lying under oath narrative escalates it to a criminal act but the fact is that the investigation began because of an inappropriate relationship between Clinton and his intern. It is the only way to validate that investigation - Clinton lied under oath, but as long as we can pretend Trump hasn’t committed any crimes we can continue to pretend Clinton is some kind of villain because he lied under oath and Trump is somehow immune from consequence (and now a man involved in the Clinton investigation is nominated for the SC and thinks sitting Presidents should be shielded from prosecution - at least now he does). To continue to focus on the lying under oath as if the oath itself wasn’t part of an investigation that was blown far out of proportion to its specifics created the ongoing illusion that Clinton’s actions were criminal. They weren’t.

Talk about rewriting history.  No the investigation did not begin because of an inappropriate relationship with an intern.  The investigation began a year before the relationship even began.  I'm not pretending anything about Trump or the ability to impeach him.  But you can't change the facts - and fyi sexual harassment is a crime - and Clinton is damn lucky the "narrative' about sexual harassment at the time was very different than it is now.   

Bill Clinton was gross then and is gross now. I think in this “Me too” era, it should be clear that he was way out of bounds in that relationship with Lewinsky.

And Obama 2008 was the first time I voted for a Democrat SPECIFICALLY because of that Dodo Sarah Palin. I liked McCain, I thought I was an Independent at the time. I hadn’t felt ready to go full Dem on my vote, but my gosh that woman is a moron.

He's fighting brain cancer. What do you expect him to do? I'll give him a pass. The other useless GOP tweeters, not so much.