paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,758
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 20, 2018 4:48:52 GMT
I'm sorry for all those in the thread who have been shamed or insulted because of their weight. I'm also slightly amused at the idea that size 14 is "not thin". I'd be very happy with a size 14. I guess it depends on how tall one is. I'm overweight and I wear size 12 jeans and XL tops. I'm 5'4.5" I just looked up a calculator for weight with four categories - normal, overweight, obese, and extremely obese and I fell in obese.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 7:59:55 GMT
I say this gently: I hope you are receiving psychological treatment for your eating disorder. Your thoughts on bodies and wellness are still disordered. Rather than focus on health, you focus on appearance. You don't know me from Adam, yet, here's a psychological analysis based upon me posting a newpaper article.
I do focus on health, not appearance. Like I said, my body is strong and healthy and capable of doing some pretty awesome things, and I am ok with that. Regardless of it's size.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:09:54 GMT
Can you please show me your medical degree and nutritionist degree as well as peoper state and federal cerificates? Oh no. You can't? Who in the hell made you an expert. Ffs!!! I see a nutritionist. I am a size 16 at 200 pounds. 5'7". I have always been between a 12 and 16. It is MY GENETIC body type. I am muscular. Did gymnastics, cycling, tennis, swimming. I am back into cycling. You do know that muscle weights more than fat right? And being muscular makes it harder to fit into socieities skinny jeans right?!?! I tried the low card no sugar keto type diets and GAINED weight. My nutritionist has me take in between 1800 and 1900 cals a day and guess what? ? I AM LOOSING BODY FAT, GAINING MUSCLE, AAANNNDDDD LOST A PAN SIZE. I am also on Carbs! Holy shit right?! I am sorry YOU have weight and food issues but dont be going around trying to shame everyone else and put us down. F off
I don't think I ever claimed to be an expert on anything. Can you tell me were you read that in my post?
I stand by my opinion (and that's what it is, I'm not claiming to be scientific here) that there is a difference between curvy and fat/obese (I, for one, am fat, not curvy), and that the article may have a point when the author said that we are all getting so used to everyone being averagely larger, that we may be losing sight of that distinction.
With regards to this:
'F off'
...wow. Classy
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:11:00 GMT
Friday I went to have my hair cut. My normal stylist no longer works there so I had a new stylist. I tell her to please use clippers on my hair. Her response was that bigger people really shouldn't buzz their hair down because we tend to have a neck roll. Really? Like I haven't noticed I have a neck roll and like people only notice I'm fat when they see it. I shouldn't have to feel bad about myself because I'm fat. I've struggled with it my entire life.
I am so very sorry that happened to you. That was so out of line
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:13:38 GMT
OP: I am sorry to say that I hope you are continuing your therapy because you seem to have a lot of internalized shame and anger previously directed at yourself that you are now directing at others.....Except live with your condemnation of my fatness. Thanks. You're great.
You base this on what?! I don't think we've ever even interacted on this board, so I find your psychological assessment of me a bit premature.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:16:47 GMT
I had this discussion with my daughter a couple of days ago. I told her that I did not think nice clothes and body positive messages make people fatter. On the contrary, I'd think.
But that's not what the article is about. The title is clickbait-y - because, well, The Daily Mail, like @gar said.
The point the author was trying to make is that the normalization of obesity may stimulate the further increase of obesity in society. There may or may not be merit to that. I don't know.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:17:30 GMT
As the author made several comments about "flattering" clothing for plus sized women, it was implied that it was part of the problem in the context of the article. It's difficult for someone outside the UK to get what she is referring to unfortunately. I'll try and explain. Except for Evans and JD Taylor the other's, in the past, have never catered for anything much over a size 14 ( UK size) which I think, i'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, is a size 12 in the US. The main reason for this at the time was, that was the most popular to buy and also the average size for a woman in the UK. Some time ago there was a backlash on this as it limited the choice for anyone over size 14 unless they wanted to spend ££££ for an outfit. Evans & JD Taylor are plus size or curves as they are called now, stores. They don't sell smaller size clothes and never have done. They are more suitable for 35/40 year old women though. I can see what the article was about. But I don't see it in the same way as many of you have done so. That is because of the benefit of knowing what has been going on in the past. To me, what the article was getting at was, " does it make us ( generally) accept that it's OK for the majority of the population to think that it is now the norm that the most popular size in the UK has gone up to a size 16 rather than what used to be a size 14. Health wise is that acceptable for a large percentage of the population to go up two dress sizes? If we accept this then where will it eventually end. How long will it be when we generally accept that a size 18/20 will be acceptable and not give it a second thought. Of course there are different reasons for some to have a problem with their weight, there always will be but when you start hearing that it's becoming a general trend for people to be increasing in weight then I think it's prudent to ask why. The trend is more prevalent in the under 30's women rather than the older women IMO. Is it because the stores that, in the past haven't catered for the bigger sizes and now do so? Is it because we can still get into a size 14 dress but we're actually really a size 16 but the manufacturing are now using a more flattering table for sizing? Is it because we eat more ? Is it because we don't eat as healthily as we did 10 years ago? Is it because we don't exercise.? And the main gist of that article IMO is " do women kid themselves that because of the acceptance of the higher average size and the change in manufacturing sizing that we're in denial of putting on weight. Generally I think we are. If we've always bought a size 14 dress and we are still buying a size 14 without taking into consideration the change in sizing then we are putting on weight, or we say to ourselves - Oh no, I don't have a problem with my weight because everyone else is a size 14 too when in fact you would have been a size 16 a couple of years ago. It's only a small part of the equation in saying that women are now able to buy more flattering clothes because they can now say they got their clothes from H & M or River Island in a size 14 which cater for a much younger woman that Evans and JD Taylor.
Yes. This!
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:20:35 GMT
Nobody should have to apologize for their body or what they want to wear. It's their choice and none of your freaking business. Nobody should have to hide in a tent because they're not your idea of perfection. I truly don't see where anyone stated that people need to apologize for their bodies or go hide in a tent. Seriously, where do you get this from?
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:23:17 GMT
I may be fat, but at least I'm not a judgmental bitch. So I have that going for me. Really? I hope you see the irony in claiming not to be judgmental by calling someone 'a judgmental bitch' based upon 1 interaction on the internet.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:29:59 GMT
Medical issue is bull, huh? Try taking Lyrica and Depo Provera and see what happens. Lucky me, I also have gastroparesis. Mobility of digestion slows. Can’t eat meat because I can not digest it in a timely manner. Ate scrambled eggs and tomato soup for 4 months during a particularly problematic time with my stomach. Guess what I lost? .2 pounds. Not two pounds. Point 2 pounds. I have to choose between tremendous pain or actually having the chance at half a life by taking those meds and the resulting weight gain. It SUCKS!!! Medical issues aren't 'bull'. They are very real. It's just that not everybody has them.
I'm so sorry about the stuff you're dealing with. Gastroparesis is horrible.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:39:32 GMT
I ate my way while sitting on my butt from a young adult weight of 115 to 100+ pounds greater as I enter my 60's. I calculated I felt best when I was about 130, and I have gained about 3 pounds a year compounded. 3 pounds is easily manageable, 100 pounds is not. I am in the end process of scheduling gastric bypass. My goal is to get to 130. That is where I should be. I did this to me. Now I must take drastic measures to fix it. I am speaking ONLY for me. Everyone's journey is their own. I do miss wearing cute clothes, but I mostly miss feeling good in my clothes. My size 18 pants are too tight in the waist. My feet are bigger. I am generally uncomfortable all the time. However the so called normalization of being larger is a good theory, but does not carry any weight (pun intended) with my reality. Good luck with this journey. I admire you. I've thought about going the gastric bypass route in the past, but never was brave enough to go through with it. It's a tough decision to make, and life altering. Wishing you the very best!!
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 9:09:53 GMT
Stating someone is 'just fat' seems to be saying they don't have the right to celebrate their bodies or to be comfortable in it. As someone who has struggled with weight and an eating disorder, you don't seem to understand the danger of the kind of statements you've just made. I don't see it that way. I do believe people deserve to be comfortable and happy in the bodies they have. Gosh, I wish that would have happened for me way earlier in life. At any of my weights. I also did end up thinking about the point the author tried to make in the article (at least, what I took away from it); the fact that if we normalize obesity, we collectively may lose sight of the dangers that come with it. That doesn't have anything to do, for me at least, with people's right to be happy.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 9:13:16 GMT
As for the terms "thin" & "fat", they vary with every person. There are no standards for what those words mean. Everyone has their own idea. But no one should apologize for being or not being either one of them, and I can't help but feel like there was a bit of an apology hidden in the OP. In between words like "fit" and "proud" was still the line "I am still not thin." And to me that sounds like an apology or an expression indicating that something is lacking or a goal has not yet been met. If you're fit and healthy and proud, then it doesn't matter what size you are or if you meet anyone's definition of "thin" or "fat". Ok. Maybe I should have phrased it 'still not 'thin' according to society's standards'. Or, 'still overweight' (because I am, regardless of muscle mass and height. I'm ok with my body. Like I said, it kicks butt
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 9:17:51 GMT
Stop throwing out the “I’m concerned about your health trope”. Bullshit, it’s just that fat is visible. People do stuff that's bad for their health everyday, but if they are average sized physically, nobody is wringing their hands about it. G That is just not true. People have been 'wringing their hands' about other people's health choices and the effect they have on society forever. This is why smoking is on the decline, for example, where it was perfectly acceptable 30 years ago. Or why people wear seatbelts now. Just to name a few.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 10:34:40 GMT
I had this discussion with my daughter a couple of days ago. I told her that I did not think nice clothes and body positive messages make people fatter. On the contrary, I'd think.
But that's not what the article is about. The title is clickbait-y - because, well, The Daily Mail, like @gar said.
The point the author was trying to make is that the normalization of obesity may stimulate the further increase of obesity in society. There may or may not be merit to that. I don't know.
I agree. The article IMO isn't suggesting that flattering clothes make society fat or obese literally or that obese people shouldn't be allowed to buy them ( where did it say that? ) In fact, the two stores mentioned, Evans and JD Taylor do have flattering modern clothes for a plus size woman. What I took from the article was that for a variety of reasons, including the flattering clothes,it contributes to the acceptance of being overweight or obese as being the norm and is that a good thing. Lets face it, there are a lot of health issues that contributes to being over weight.There are also a lot of reasons why some find it difficult or virtually impossible to control their weight. The article is a general overview of society as a whole. Dr Raya Muttarak believes ‘normalising’ larger bodies may undermine obesity She says research shows many overweight people misperceive their weight She says accepting size 18 as normal could shift the average size upwards Underassesing your weight may stop you from losing weight Taking all the above points into consideration then IMO she does have a valid arguments that these points do make people fatter. No one is disparaging fat/obese people or being judgemental or saying that someone shouldn't be happy in the body they have. For the ones outside the UK here's a conversion table of the sizing. We seem to be getting confused as to what is classified as a plus size or the average between the two countries I think.
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 10:40:06 GMT
Thank you, @dottyscrapper.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 20, 2018 12:04:34 GMT
On the contrary, I'd think.
But that's not what the article is about. The title is clickbait-y - because, well, The Daily Mail, like @gar said.
The point the author was trying to make is that the normalization of obesity may stimulate the further increase of obesity in society. There may or may not be merit to that. I don't know.
I agree. The article IMO isn't suggesting that flattering clothes make society fat or obese literally or that obese people shouldn't be allowed to buy them ( where did it say that? ) In fact, the two stores mentioned, Evans and JD Taylor do have flattering modern clothes for a plus size woman. What I took from the article was that for a variety of reasons, including the flattering clothes,it contributes to the acceptance of being overweight or obese as being the norm and is that a good thing. Lets face it, there are a lot of health issues that contributes to being over weight.There are also a lot of reasons why some find it difficult or virtually impossible to control their weight. The article is a general overview of society as a whole. Dr Raya Muttarak believes ‘normalising’ larger bodies may undermine obesity She says research shows many overweight people misperceive their weight She says accepting size 18 as normal could shift the average size upwards Underassesing your weight may stop you from losing weight Taking all the above points into consideration then IMO she does have a valid arguments that these points do make people fatter. No one is disparaging fat/obese people or being judgemental or saying that someone shouldn't be happy in the body they have. For the ones outside the UK here's a conversion table of the sizing. We seem to be getting confused as to what is classified as a plus size or the average between the two countries I think. That was my impression of the article as well, although it was so poorly written that it was difficult to find the main point. I always struggle with weight-always have. I’m ok now, although I’m not exactly thin. I agree that vanity sizing causes a misperception about one’s weight, because it happened to me. When I was losing weight, I felt happy about buying size 14 pants until I realized that they were really not size 14, more like a 16. That was a downer!
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Post by sues on Jul 20, 2018 15:00:50 GMT
I say this gently: I hope you are receiving psychological treatment for your eating disorder. Your thoughts on bodies and wellness are still disordered. Rather than focus on health, you focus on appearance. You don't know me from Adam, yet, here's a psychological analysis based upon me posting a newpaper article.
I do focus on health, not appearance. Like I said, my body is strong and healthy and capable of doing some pretty awesome things, and I am ok with that. Regardless of it's size.
Every one of your posts is like a study in the contrary, and a veritable FIESTA of missing the point. But kudos to you for finding another opportunity to talk about how awesome your triathlete body is while criticizing the bodies of other women.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 20, 2018 15:13:14 GMT
"Fiesta of missing the point." I love this sues
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Deleted
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Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 15:20:05 GMT
sues Where have I criticized anyone’s body? Really, where? While everyone should be happy with who they are and wear whatever the hell they please, denying that a society where half the adults are obese is a problem, is just dumb. Then again, so is getting riled up over the opinion of strangers on the internet. <shrug>. That remark about me ‘celebrating’ whatever was mean, so I’ll bow out now. 🙂
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Post by dewryce on Jul 20, 2018 15:23:45 GMT
@rvjl Your original post came across as very judgemental. That very well may not have been your intent, but surely you can see that by reading most of the replies?
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Post by sues on Jul 20, 2018 15:42:07 GMT
sues Where have I criticized anyone’s body? Really, where? While everyone should be happy with who they are and wear whatever the hell they please, denying that a society where half the adults are obese is a problem, is just dumb. Then again, so is getting riled up over the opinion of strangers on the internet. <shrug>. That remark about me ‘celebrating’ whatever was mean, so I’ll bow out now. 🙂 I'm not riled up. I'm mystified, and not a little bit disgusted by your words and refusal to acknowledge them for what they are. Four pages of people are telling you why your words are misguided (at best) and warrant reconsideration, but you remain willfully obtuse. Whoever gently suggested you may want to revisit therapy seems to be right on the money. You have more issues regarding this subject than anyone here can sort out. If you can't see what's wrong with the words you're saying, that is concerning. The fact that you have deemed the 'celebrating' comment (?) so mean that you can't continue (the discussion you started), is ludicrous. Check yourself.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Jul 20, 2018 15:48:09 GMT
I say this gently: I hope you are receiving psychological treatment for your eating disorder. Your thoughts on bodies and wellness are still disordered. Rather than focus on health, you focus on appearance. You don't know me from Adam, yet, here's a psychological analysis based upon me posting a newpaper article.
I do focus on health, not appearance. Like I said, my body is strong and healthy and capable of doing some pretty awesome things, and I am ok with that. Regardless of it's size.
Let me get this straight: you want to act like a medical doctor who has solved obesity, and then get defensive when someone says you should stop? Mmmmmkay.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jul 20, 2018 15:52:17 GMT
sues Where have I criticized anyone’s body? Really, where? While everyone should be happy with who they are and wear whatever the hell they please, denying that a society where half the adults are obese is a problem, is just dumb. Then again, so is getting riled up over the opinion of strangers on the internet. <shrug>. That remark about me ‘celebrating’ whatever was mean, so I’ll bow out now. 🙂 Gosh, all those people celebrating their curves - let me set the record straight for you. You’re not curvy, you’re just fat. And accepting that is dangerous. But that’s not a criticism of anybody, amirite? Don’t forget my fat body is good because I’m a triathlete, but yours is bad because you’re just fat. I’ve been on this whole journey with my body, but you’re... just fat.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 3, 2024 5:33:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 16:08:45 GMT
sues Where have I criticized anyone’s body? Really, where? Right in your original post you said something along the lines of 'you're not curvy, you're just fat' How is that not criticism?
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Post by annabella on Jul 20, 2018 18:13:53 GMT
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Post by tracyarts on Jul 21, 2018 4:53:03 GMT
Oh sweet Jesus, that one looks like a pink Gumby. No, unless you find those sack suits to be cool in an avant garde street fashion kind of way, you should be able to choose from many better options. But even the better options are often crap. I was given a gift card and half price Haute Cash coupons from Torrid for my birthday, and the first half of the shipment arrived today. Some of it has to go back because the fabric quality is absolute garbage and it'll fall apart with the first few wearings. Some of it is fine for half price and free, but I was really disappointed by just how cheaply made everything I recieved is, given the full retail prices.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 21, 2018 13:12:31 GMT
This article:
discusses that.
I don't know. I'm on the fence about this (I do take great issue with the title - It should be 'Do plus size clothes make people fatter", ffs).
I come from a life long history of gaining weight and losing it and gaining it back and losing it again. I was near 300 pounds at some point, and I've been around 130 at my lowest weight. I'm tall, so that that was not a healthy situation. I ended up being diagnosed with an eating disorder about a year ago. After a year of therapy, I am at a place where I am ok with my body. I am still not thin (a size 14 now), but I am fit. I'm a triathlete. My body is incredibly strong. I am proud of it, for that. That said, my relationship with food is a struggle every single damn day.
I do agree with the author of the article that the normalization of obesity is a dangerous thing. All these people 'celebrating their curves' - so often I see this on social media and I can't help but think, no, you are not curvy. Beyonce is curvy. Marilyn Monroe was curvy. You are just fat.
I also see a double standard, sometimes: it seems to be ok to state that people are too skinny and should 'just eat a burger', but it is completely unacceptable to say that people are too fat and should just stop stuffing their face.
Thirdly, there seem to be so many people who mistakenly attribute their obesity to a medical issue or a genetic thing. I mean, No, you are not genetically predisposed to be big. If you are, then that's the difference between 130 or 135 pounds, for example - not the difference between 135 and 250 pounds. The great big vast majority of people is overweight because they take in more calories than they burn. That is a dangerous thing and shouldn't be made acceptable, or excused.
We *are* moving towards a universal health crisis. Should vanity sizing and the normalization of plus size clothing be stopped? Is that the way back to health? What say the peas?
Read the article? No thanks. I can't get past your crappy attitude towards overweight people.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Jul 22, 2018 0:25:15 GMT
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