|
|
Post by teach4u on Aug 2, 2018 19:07:35 GMT
So I bought tickets to a game next week. It was part of my son's graduation/birthday celebration. We planned for months and we are not "affluent."
This kind of "protest" would only piss me off, not make me "think" if it happened when I went.
This is unsafe and frankly shouldn't be allowed. You have a right to assemble, you don't have a right to endanger people.
|
|
gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,097
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
|
Post by gsquaredmom on Aug 2, 2018 19:27:48 GMT
I get the reasoning. That is an affluent area with many people who can’t begin to fathom the plight of the folks on the south side.
Since ball game folks can’t really park there anyway, and a lot of folks take the red line, I do not think it will impact people going to a ball game.
Whether or not it’s a good idea, I can’t really say. But they have a right to peacefully assemble. I think the city did a great job protecting protesters a few weeks ago on the highway. While not what the protestors wanted, it was a compromise I could agree with to keep people safe.
I think it is sad that folks feel the need to protest. I had hoped we had moved farther than this.
ETA. I think Michigan Avenue Mag Mile would be more effective, but would anger a lot more people.
|
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030 
|
Post by Sarah*H on Aug 2, 2018 19:41:45 GMT
I'm sorry that the thought of being temporarily inconvenienced from easily accessing Wrigley Field would just piss you off rather than cause you to compassionately think about the reasons these protesters have come to feel this is their only option to get through to people like you. They should clearly not bother. Perhaps get off Lake Shore Drive and take one of the adjacent streets west of Wrigleyville running north/south through virtually the entire city. Or park and take the train.
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Aug 2, 2018 20:03:45 GMT
I'm sorry that the thought of being temporarily inconvenienced from easily accessing Wrigley Field would just piss you off rather than cause you to compassionately think about the reasons these protesters have come to feel this is their only option to get through to people like you. They should clearly not bother. Impeding freedom of movement is an act of aggression against the very people the given cause is trying to sway.
It's stupid, unsafe and it doesn't work - i.e. it pisses people off. The only purpose for something like this is get media attention and a cause a ruckus, and while that may help get visibility to "the cause", it winds up hurting it locally because it interferes with people's ability to get where they need to go (hospitals, picking up kids from school, work, etc).
It stokes anger, it doesn't get through to people as you suppose it should. It certainly hasn't worked in Portland.
ETA: You can probably tell I have a rather visceral reaction to this topic. Just for understanding...when this happens in Portland, those morons shut down I5 (or one of the other "life-blood" highways/roads), one of two main throughfares through Portland to Washington...and it screws traffic up beyond belief on every single surrounding road/bridge/freeway in a city where traffic is already the bane of everyone's existence.
From reading above and below, seems like Chicago isn't quite so restricted in movement so strategically blocking one road in a more affluent side of town is likely not a huge deal. In Portland, something like that shuts the city down. Ugh.
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 20:06:48 GMT
Like a lot of protests, yeah, there’s myopia mixed in with good intentions, but ultimately, you wouldn’t be prevented from seeing the game; you’d just couldn’t take The Drive to drive there. So, on the pissed off continuum, I think the inconvenience might put some people at a very low simmer.
There are a gazillion ways to get to drive to Addison and Clark. (Not my choice, driving.)
(And like it or not, Wrigley Field is the protest target because it’s a symbol of yuppiedom...precious yuppiedom. My husband grew up on the Cubs fan side of the city but eschews the team for the carefully-crafted fan demographics and identity (disguised as shabby fun) which is part of the whole package. There’s another anudder team on the other udder side of town with a whole different ‘difrint vibe.)
|
|
|
|
Post by teach4u on Aug 2, 2018 20:12:37 GMT
This is our first game at Wrigley in 25 years. Coming from out of state and making a special occassion of it. So we’re not “easily getting” somewhere. We’re not yuppies and guilting me for working hard to save up for a game doesn’t make me sympathetic.
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 20:17:36 GMT
This is our first game at Wrigley in 25 years. Coming from out of state and making a special occassion of it. So we’re not “easily getting” somewhere. We’re not yuppies and guilting me for working hard to save up for a game doesn’t make me sympathetic. Okay, you’re not sympathetic and you’re pissed off. Noted. Some of the replies are pointing out, perhaps to others who don’t know, that this is ONE road closure. It doesn’t sound like anybody will be prevented from going to the game; it doesn’t sound like people choosing other routes and public transportation will be endangered; it doesn’t sound like this is the game you have tickets for. But you have every right to put this at a much higher temp on the simmer-to-boil anger scale than others would. |
|
Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
|
Post by Sarah*H on Aug 2, 2018 20:29:28 GMT
This will not prevent you, in any way, from seeing the game. Both because it's happening before you arrive and also because there are other ways to access Wrigleyville. So continuing to post as though you are personally wronged by a protest which in fact doesn't affect you, to point out that you are not in the demographic targeted by a protest which you will not see and to repeatedly state that this protest which does not affect you and does not target you which you will not see nonetheless pisses you off and makes you unsympathetic... what exactly is the point of the post? As for whether these types of protests are effective - some people think they aren't. I personally think they are. They piss some people off. They make other people aware and think about HARD issues which they otherwise might tend to ignore. Long haul truckers on being stuck on a road closed by protest |
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2018 20:30:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2018 20:33:07 GMT
I'm sorry that the thought of being temporarily inconvenienced from easily accessing Wrigley Field would just piss you off rather than cause you to compassionately think about the reasons these protesters have come to feel this is their only option to get through to people like you. They should clearly not bother. Impeding freedom of movement is an act of aggression against the very people the given cause is trying to sway.
It's stupid, unsafe and it doesn't work - i.e. it pisses people off. The only purpose for something like this is get media attention and a cause a ruckus, and while that may help get visibility to "the cause", it winds up hurting it locally because it interferes with people's ability to get where they need to go (hospitals, picking up kids from school, work, etc).
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would disagree with you. |
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Aug 2, 2018 20:38:47 GMT
Impeding freedom of movement is an act of aggression against the very people the given cause is trying to sway.
It's stupid, unsafe and it doesn't work - i.e. it pisses people off. The only purpose for something like this is get media attention and a cause a ruckus, and while that may help get visibility to "the cause", it winds up hurting it locally because it interferes with people's ability to get where they need to go (hospitals, picking up kids from school, work, etc).
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would disagree with you. I'm considering its actual effectiveness within the confines of my local experience. So far, not effective. |
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2018 20:44:36 GMT
So, no kneeling, no marching... got it.
|
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 2, 2018 20:49:35 GMT
So I bought tickets to a game next week. It was part of my son's graduation/birthday celebration. We planned for months and we are not "affluent." This kind of "protest" would only piss me off, not make me "think" if it happened when I went.
This is unsafe and frankly shouldn't be allowed. You have a right to assemble, you don't have a right to endanger people.
That!!! I understand the movement and totally support their cause but, come on don't march in the street and for the love of all that is holy don't march on the expressway!
Just think if those officers where fighting crime instead of protecting your butt from getting run over. I saw a police conference with the former police commissioner, Gary McCarthy, he said the true problem with the gang violence stems from the neighborhood not coming forward and going to the police and telling them what they saw. Shots ring out into a crowd an innocent person is killed, NOBODY saw anything? Have you seen the rewards offered for information? Often we are talking ten's of thousands of dollars! Still no one comes forward. He also said we need to have parental influence and nuclear families 'So many of these families are single parents, they need to provide for their families so kids are left to make do' If we as women took the stand that I won't allow a man in my life that can not or will not be support me emotionally, monetarily and spiritually! And I surely will not have a child with this person! Refuse to settle for less than you deserve. I know it sounds like I not in touch with the reality of families in these situations. It sounds rather idealistic. Still it all boils down to personal responsibility. No one is going to make your life better that's up to you.
I have so many questions. In my opinion (putting on my flame suit) lol
If you aren't willing to help the police then you really don't need to say we need more police. Witnesses won't talk to one cop do you really think have more will
solve the problem? If we had unlimited money then maybe more police officers would help crime. Many of these crimes are in areas of high employment who is paying into the fund to provide the cash needed to have more officers? What we need is accountability! So unemployment feeds into crime. So lets pay those who work more money so we can collect more funds. Here in Chicago the $15.00 per hour is a hot button issue. People say I can't support a family of 4 working at my fast food job. What people don't seem to understand is that those jobs weren't meant to support a family. The answer is STAY IN SCHOOL, learn a trade, volunteer. There are so many opportunities that will lead to a better life. Money for unemployment benefits were never meant to last for years. It was meant to tie you over not provide you long term income.
Why do families allow gang members to live with them? You don't want violence in your home don't invite the source into your home. What do you expect the police to do? They can not be everywhere. That's when civic duty steps in. You have a gun in your home yet it's not in a secure location. Young people make poor decisions don't give them an opportunity to get into trouble. As parents and civic leaders it it our responsibility to enforce accountability for their actions. I am sick of hearing he didn't have a gun, he wasn't pointing a gun,
he wasn't a threat to the police officer. Yes, there are unjustified shootings! I for one expect to see justice for victims families. However, watching police cams I
want to know just how many times must an officer need to ask show me your hands? How many times does the office need to say get down on the ground? Follow commands. Don't put that officer in a position where he feels the need to defend himself. I blame the media for much of our issues. How about promoting positive solutions? Show those who feel disenfranchised hope. Show them the way to better themselves. Stop reporting all the gore and cheap sensational stories. Imagine what we could do?
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 20:50:23 GMT
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would disagree with you. I'm considering its actual effectiveness within the confines of my local experience. So far, not effective. So far. I was a little girl when MLK had his marches in Chicago and, because of who I heard talking about it, I remember anger. And fear. Hardware stores ran out of supplies homeowners were using to stack sandbags across intersections. Who’s going to admit that now? The effects of his protests were cumulative - and benefit from the luxury of time, hindsight and history. The same thing could happen with these protests, so contemporaneous local reactions might not necessarily be the only barometer. |
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Aug 2, 2018 20:55:12 GMT
So, no kneeling, no marching... got it. Wow...twist my words much?
Actually, no blocking traffic. Just, no blocking traffic.
-------------------------
ETA:
The list goes on and on for years and years...the list of articles above only goes back to May 2017.
|
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 2, 2018 20:56:16 GMT
So, no kneeling, no marching... got it. Actually those actions are not solving a thing. I support the movement but we need to find a way where we aren't pissing off so many people We need to find a way that isn't so in your face. That only makes people defensive. No one is going to be in a "mood" to identify with us, so in a sense we are alienating they very folks we need to hear the massage. |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2018 20:57:25 GMT
This will not prevent you, in any way, from seeing the game. Both because it's happening before you arrive and also because there are other ways to access Wrigleyville. So continuing to post as though you are personally wronged by a protest which in fact doesn't affect you, to point out that you are not in the demographic targeted by a protest which you will not see and to repeatedly state that this protest which does not affect you and does not target you which you will not see nonetheless pisses you off and makes you unsympathetic... what exactly is the point of the post?
As for whether these types of protests are effective - some people think they aren't. I personally think they are. They piss some people off. They make other people aware and think about HARD issues which they otherwise might tend to ignore. Long haul truckers on being stuck on a road closed by protestThe point of the post is a vent. We all have them. She is irked that something she has saved up for and is a milestone special event may get screwed up. We all vent about things like that, often about things that may be worse for others or something. She has a right to be upset. In some cities, shutting a highway down shuts the area down. If someone isn't familiar with Chicago, this might be the thought. As for me, a protest that impedes emergency equipment and causes a hazard for the lives of others does nothing to get sympathy from me to the cause. If I think about the underlying reason at all after the fact, it would continue to be with anger and contempt toward the cause. If the goal is resignation of the mayor and chief, wouldn't protesting near their offices and the area getting in and out of those be more effective? |
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 21:01:01 GMT
I have so many questions. In my opinion (putting on my flame suit) lol
[snipped for space]
You bring up a lot of issues - which would require a lot of “unpacking.” My short answer is that I imagine that the people organizing protests both recognize societal complexities and do not believe that having protests is the only solution to those complexities. I also imagine they view protests as building awareness. |
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 2, 2018 21:02:06 GMT
This will not prevent you, in any way, from seeing the game. Both because it's happening before you arrive and also because there are other ways to access Wrigleyville. So continuing to post as though you are personally wronged by a protest which in fact doesn't affect you, to point out that you are not in the demographic targeted by a protest which you will not see and to repeatedly state that this protest which does not affect you and does not target you which you will not see nonetheless pisses you off and makes you unsympathetic... what exactly is the point of the post?
As for whether these types of protests are effective - some people think they aren't. I personally think they are. They piss some people off. They make other people aware and think about HARD issues which they otherwise might tend to ignore. Long haul truckers on being stuck on a road closed by protestThe point of the post is a vent. We all have them. She is irked that something she has saved up for and is a milestone special event may get screwed up. We all vent about things like that, often about things that may be worse for others or something. She has a right to be upset. In some cities, shutting a highway down shuts the area down. If someone isn't familiar with Chicago, this might be the thought. As for me, a protest that impedes emergency equipment and causes a hazard for the lives of others does nothing to get sympathy from me to the cause. If I think about the underlying reason at all after the fact, it would continue to be with anger and contempt toward the cause. If the goal is resignation of the mayor and chief, wouldn't protesting near their offices and the area getting in and out of those be more effective? In an ideal world yes but this is Chicago. That's not going to happen |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2018 21:02:09 GMT
So, no kneeling, no marching... got it. I have no problem with the kneeling. The people it pisses off were never going to support the cause anyway. The marches, if they shut down major roads, can push off those who would be otherwise inclined to help. I am all for marches that shut down smaller roads that have other options. |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2018 21:03:16 GMT
The point of the post is a vent. We all have them. She is irked that something she has saved up for and is a milestone special event may get screwed up. We all vent about things like that, often about things that may be worse for others or something. She has a right to be upset. In some cities, shutting a highway down shuts the area down. If someone isn't familiar with Chicago, this might be the thought. As for me, a protest that impedes emergency equipment and causes a hazard for the lives of others does nothing to get sympathy from me to the cause. If I think about the underlying reason at all after the fact, it would continue to be with anger and contempt toward the cause. If the goal is resignation of the mayor and chief, wouldn't protesting near their offices and the area getting in and out of those be more effective? In an ideal world yes but this is Chicago. That's not going to happen I'll concede you as you seem to know more about Chicago than I do. |
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 2, 2018 21:05:29 GMT
In an ideal world yes but this is Chicago. That's not going to happen I'll concede you as you seem to know more about Chicago than I do. LOL No just a life long Chicagoan. The whole thing can be summed up as "it is, what it is" |
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2018 21:08:00 GMT
I'll concede you as you seem to know more about Chicago than I do. LOL No just a life long Chicagoan. The whole thing can be summed up as "it is, what it is" that's what i meant  I've never been to Chicago, although taking the boys to Wrigley is high on our list. My knowledge comes only from the news, so I impose my Colorado experience on Chicago. |
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 21:08:06 GMT
If the goal is resignation of the mayor and chief, wouldn't protesting near their offices and the area getting in and out of those be more effective? In an ideal world yes but this is Chicago. That's not going to happen Huh? There have been plenty of protests at City Hall. I’ve walked by more than one. If that's changed, what do you think it is about Chicago in particular that would prevent protests at City Hall or the police headquarters? |
|
|
|
Post by wezee on Aug 2, 2018 21:11:45 GMT
In an ideal world yes but this is Chicago. That's not going to happen Huh? There have been plenty of protests at City Hall. I’ve walked by more than one. If that's changed, what is it about Chicago in particular that would prevent protests at City Hall or the police headquarters? I meant in an ideal world these protests would lead to both the mayor and the police chief would resign. You are right I've seen them too |
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 21:19:28 GMT
Huh? There have been plenty of protests at City Hall. I’ve walked by more than one. If that's changed, what is it about Chicago in particular that would prevent protests at City Hall or the police headquarters? I meant in an ideal world these protests would lead to both the mayor and the police chief would resign. You are right I've seen them too Ah. Got it. We’ll have to agree to disagree that those resignations would be the ideal solution. First, I’m not sure they’re warranted, and second, I doubt that symbolic (and/or forced) resignations like that would lead to either systemic changes or an appreciably different type of leadership. |
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2018 21:24:37 GMT
The protestors plan to post their demands on Rahm's office door, much like Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the church door, and Dr. Martin Luther King did in 1966 (put 95 demands on the door of Richard J. Daley's door). Agitation is intentional. www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-biz-highway-protests-history-20180727-story.html
The idea of taking to the streets is not new — the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. led the 1965 march onto the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Ala. The clash on the bridge between peaceful protesters and police using tear gas and billy clubs was televised around the world.
Bradley noted that many people now are sympathetic toward the 1960s civil rights protests, but “they don’t understand how wildly annoying Martin Luther King was and the protesters were.”
“If it had been left to letter-writing campaigns and phone calls, nothing would have ever gotten done,” Bradley said.
Livingston recalled a story his grandfather used to tell about a dog sitting on a porch whining because he was sitting on a nail. Asked why the dog didn’t move, the grandfather replied, “It doesn’t hurt bad enough yet.”
Livingston said change comes from discomfort with the way things are, and the protest will help “redistribute the pain.” The march will block Lake Shore Drive at Belmont Avenue, and then move up Clark Street to Wrigley Field, Livingston said.
“Sometimes you have to irritate people to get them to move,” said Livingston, a former City Council candidate. He is demanding the resignation of both Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Chicago police Superintendent Eddie Johnson, along with economic investments on the South and West sides. He said he disagreed with the strategy of the Dan Ryan protest, held in an area where people were already familiar with the problem of violence.
|
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 23:23:26 GMT
Update: The protest is basically over. They closed down one small portion of Lake Shore Drive for about an hour. All motorists were able to exit and use adjacent streets. (“The Drive” is a scenic road adjacent to the lake - water on one side and a mass of streets on the other side.) Protestors are kneeling and singing outside Wrigley Field. Extra police, especially on bikes, were deployed. No arrests so far.
|
|
|
|
Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2018 23:26:33 GMT
Update: The protest is basically over. They closed down one small portion of Lake Shore Drive for about an hour. All motorists were able to exit and use adjacent streets. (“The Drive” is a scenic road adjacent to the lake - water on one side and a mass of streets on the other side.) Protestors are kneeling and singing outside Wrigley Field. Extra police, especially in bikes, were deployed. No arrests so far. Meanwhile, first responders are busy over at Lollapalooza, where there have already been a handful of arrests and EMTs called.  |
|
AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
|
Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 2, 2018 23:29:39 GMT
Update: The protest is basically over. They closed down one small portion of Lake Shore Drive for about an hour. All motorists were able to exit and use adjacent streets. (“The Drive” is a scenic road adjacent to the lake - water on one side and a mass of streets on the other side.) Protestors are kneeling and singing outside Wrigley Field. Extra police, especially in bikes, were deployed. No arrests so far. Meanwhile, first responders are busy over at Lollapalooza, where there have already been a handful of arrests and EMTs called. Rich kids getting high and acting like jerks. (Who can afford Lollapalooza? The only time one of my kids went was when my daughter’s boyfriend’s father bought them tickets.) |
|
