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Post by christine58 on Sept 4, 2018 11:02:13 GMT
He simply never believed that anything would happen to him for being so disrespectful of the flag. Now he's in a position where he has no choice about whether or not her plays. PLUS he SUCKS as a QB. I hope NIKE takes a huge hit. I can't protest at work without consequences---why should he be any different.
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Post by christine58 on Sept 4, 2018 11:04:06 GMT
Kneeling is not disrespectful. Funny how Tim Tebow was MOCKED for kneeling while he played.
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Post by christine58 on Sept 4, 2018 11:08:28 GMT
I will never forgive Nike for hiring Michael Vick. Never bought a single thing from them since and never will. Obviously they are trying again to gain publicity by being controversial. I happen to agree with the political statement they are making in this instance, but it will never be enough to change my negative opinion of the company and forgive them for Vick. AMEN!
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Post by christine58 on Sept 4, 2018 11:11:55 GMT
I fully support Kaepernick’s message but I don’t support how he delivered that message. I know that he wanted to protest peacefully and bring attention to the issues of racial injustice and police brutality. I get it; those are issues that should concern us all. However, when you have a message of such import, the best way to deliver it is by unifying people, not dividing them and causing an uproar in this country so the message gets lost in all that noise. He is a sports figure – he and the other NFL players could have banded together and called a press conference and spoken about those issues to a wide audience. I bet every major and cable network would have televised that press conference. By doing what he did, Kaepernick just caused an unnecessary fight that has divided people even more AND overshadowed the underlying issues. Even if I took Trump out of the equation, I think any Republican president would have said something critical (though none of them would call the players “sons of bitches” like Trump did). Is there anyone who really thinks a Reagan or a Bush would be mum about it? Now it’s all about the NFL, Trump and Kaepernick because the ACTUAL issues (the really, truly important element) have been overwhelmed by the scandal. PERFECT...I completely agree with all of this.
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Post by christine58 on Sept 4, 2018 11:12:25 GMT
You keep saying this as if somehow it's supposed to bother me. I did not make a mistake electing Trump. If faced today with the choice of voting for him or for Hillary, I'd do it again; and again; and again. Your side lost the election when you gave in to the idea that she was entitled to be elected and ignored all of her faults and the animosity she created. Your own blindness played a large part in Trumps election. Your insistence of vilifying Republicans will likely lead to his re-election. #notLauren Trump wasn't elected, he was installed by Putin. He won't be "reelected" because Mueller is going to get him, Oh dear god....
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:39:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 12:08:45 GMT
Nike has the right to support anyone they choose and I have that same right. Our local DVS will be getting a donation of all of our Nike gear.
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 4, 2018 12:23:08 GMT
Pathetic. They could just donate it if they wanted to get rid of it. Nobody cares if you burn your clothing. Do some good in the world and pass it along to someone else who wants it. You have already purchased the shoes/socks, and provided profits to the company. Burning your shoes/socks? way to protest... Only one injured in that case in you,
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Sept 4, 2018 12:30:09 GMT
The one thing that has consistently made America great (without Trump's help) is that we have first amendment rights. Everyone has them. If you want to say something that is unpopular, you can. You may face negative consequences from it - boycotts, shunning, ridicule, loss of a job - but you won't face those consequences from the government.
This is an issue that Kaepernick deeply cares about. He saw that it wasn't getting enough attention and felt that he could use his position to gain attention for it. He felt that he could get the dialog going, and he has the right to protest if that is his choice. He has done so at great personal sacrifice. While he may not be the best quarterback, is he really not in the top 92 or so? He's that bad that he wouldn't have at least earned a tryout? So he's actually put his money where his mouth is - taking a stand on something he believes in, even at cost to himself. As far as being disrespectful, this is the only situation I've ever heard of where someone has argued that kneeling is disrespectful. Kneeling has been seen as deferential and reverential throughout history - a way to show humility and loyalty and honor. But in this particular case it's disresepctful? It's more respectful to the anthem than using the restroom during that time. It's more respectful than buying a hot dog and beer at the concession stand. It's more respectful than checking your phone or taking a photo. It's more respectful than talking to your friends. It's more respectful than yelling random words of the anthem because they have some link to your team. It's more resepctful than walking hurriedly to find your seats because you arrived late to the game. And yet these are things that I see at every single game I attend as a season ticket holder to a major league sports team.
We don't need protection to say things that are popular and well-liked. Those things will always find an audience. Sometimes things that are unpopular are the things that need to be said. You may not like the way that he chose to go about his protest, but is there anything that would make the "all lives matter/blue lives matter" happy about his protest? Maybe if he just wrote a couple of strongly worded letters to the editor of the local paper or made some comments on Youtube, or just changed his FB profile picture that would be acceptable to them. But I doubt it.
Police brutality and abuse of power is a problem in America. Certain groups are more likely to be victims of it. Not every cop is out to get people, but it has happened often enough that to deny that it is an issue is not going to help solve the problem. How many of us spend time teaching our sons how to behave around police officers? If we're white, it probably doesn't go any further than telling them that the police are our friends and that you should be respectful to them and do as they ask. If you're not white, the lessons probably go a little further than that. This isn't right. Black parents shouldn't have to teach their children that there are separate rules for them because the chances are greater of them being mistreated or worse. We're supposed to be a nation of laws, not two separate systems depending upon your skin color.
This is the hill that Kaepernick has chosen to die on, and it looks like Nike supports his cause. Some will boycott, but others will show their support. Which is what is great - we have the freedom to follow our consciences as we see fit.
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Post by barbarac on Sept 4, 2018 12:42:12 GMT
I don't equate a politician with a professional athlete. IMO, John McCain threw the first punch against Trump and knowing Trump he should have expected a quick and dirty response. Do I thing Trump should have done it? No. But then I don't equate John McCain with the United States of America or it's flag either.So, when Trump kneels during the playing of the national anthem, then you can't ask if I'm against him the same way I was with Kapernick. So then you equate Kaepernick with the United States of America or it's flag? That's really messed up!! By making such a big deal about what he did, years ago now, YOU are making this a bigger deal than it really is. Without the conservatives crying foul, Nike would have never hired him. I'm not conservative, at all, but I can still recognize what John McCain did for his country and his flag, but you can't? Why?
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Sept 4, 2018 12:43:20 GMT
No matter how many times you say he dodged the draft (and I think your most recent post makes 6 times in this thread alone) is not going to sway me to your point of view. 00 So- it bothers you that someone kneels for the pledge but you don't care if someone dodged the draft multiple (5) times. Can you explain why the first is disrespectful to our country but he second is not?
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Post by Really Red on Sept 4, 2018 13:25:13 GMT
Not a Nike fan at all because of how they make their shoes, but am a BIG fan of this ad. It gave me shivers.
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Post by lbp on Sept 4, 2018 13:25:43 GMT
I will be glad when his 15 minutes of self glory fame is up.
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Post by busy on Sept 4, 2018 13:26:55 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way.
What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.”
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Post by thundergal on Sept 4, 2018 13:50:43 GMT
I will be glad when his 15 minutes of self glory fame is up. Me, too. Hope Mueller makes it happen sooner rather than later.
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imsirius
Prolific Pea
Call it as I see it.
Posts: 7,661
Location: Floating in the black veil.
Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Sept 4, 2018 13:57:34 GMT
I will be glad when his 15 minutes of self glory fame is up. Me, too. Hope Mueller makes it happen sooner rather than later. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 4, 2018 14:43:39 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way. What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.” That just isn’t true, busy. I feel strongly about the issues of racial injustice and police brutality that Kaepernick wanted to highlight. I know firsthand the terror, not just anxiety, one feels when stopped by a cop. I see the injustice with my own eyes. I’ve been seeing and experiencing them for a very long time. Issues like these will always be uncomfortable, regardless of how someone gets the message, and it’s a noble cause to raise awareness of them and fight for eradication of the shameful and unjust practices. But what has happened? The daily narratives are about whether K was right or wrong, whether the NFL is right or wrong, whether Trump is right or wrong. The focus is no longer on the real issues that matter – issues that demand unity, a thorough understanding, and a heck of a lot of discomfort. Protests are effective when they inspire a collective action for reforms, not when they inspire even more divisiveness.
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Post by busy on Sept 4, 2018 15:01:03 GMT
Protests are effective when they inspire a collective action for reforms, not when they inspire even more divisiveness. I disagree. In looking at the history of protest, the ones that were effective were rarely pretty. They were peaceful on the protestors' side, but were generally met with resistance on a variety of levels. You know as well as I that civil rights era peaceful protests were not met by those happy with the status quo suddenly joining hands and singing kumbaya and seeing the light.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 4, 2018 15:06:03 GMT
I think Busy is right. I don't imagine, for one second, that the people saying K is wrong, that Trump is right, that the NFL is right or wrong depending on the day and its position would ever support his right to protest against police brutality and black oppression. They are the people who say shut up and play. They are the people who say rich athletes don't have anything to complain about. They are the people who say K is unAmerican, call him Muslim as a slur and somehow equate expressing distress about police brutality and oppression as an insult to veterans. They wrap themselves up in the flag as though it is some testament to their greater sense of patriotism when it's just a cheap, shallow facsimile.
They are the people who threaten to run over or shoot with water cannons people protesting against the murder by police officer of an unarmed black teen. They are the ones who called the Pittsburgh Steelers players "baboons" when in a failed attempt to avoid this controversy altogether, the team chose to stay in the tunnel during the national anthem. They are the ones who come up with pathetic, nonsensical justifications for why it's okay every single time a black person is killed by a police officer, regardless of the circumstances of the case. ("He smoked pot once." "He might have shoplifted $5 worth of cigars." "He liked to Purple Drank." "She took a selfie once with a phone case that looked like a handgun." "He was making too much noise in the back of the police van." "He shouldn't have been playing with that airsoft gun in the park." We could do this for the rest of the day and not run out of stupid, racist justifications.) I simply no longer believe there is any acceptable method of protest for people like this and I firmly believe it's because they disagree with the message.
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Post by lemondrop on Sept 4, 2018 15:12:03 GMT
I wonder - what do the people who insist that players should stand for the anthem do when watching games/hearing the anthem at home? Do they rise or do they continue to sit on the couch with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other?
I love the image and the wording.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 4, 2018 15:15:31 GMT
No, of course not. I'm sure they're all doing this.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 4, 2018 15:30:41 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way. What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.” There is a difference between having a right and agreeing with the message. My dh is a retired vet, he does not agree with Colin but agrees he has a right to protest. My dh was a huge 49ers fan, he no longer is. He is also a minority. He’s not racist just because he doesn’t agree with the protests no matter what a bunch of white people on a message board want to say He is also allowed to feel how he does about his service, what it means to him and the flag.
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Post by busy on Sept 4, 2018 15:32:46 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way. What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.” There is a difference between having a right and agreeing with the message. My dh is a retired vet, he does not agree with Colin but agrees he has a right to protest. My dh was a huge 49ers fan, he no longer is. He is also a minority. He’s not racist just because he doesn’t agree with the protests no matter what a bunch of white people on a message board want to say He is also allowed to feel how he does about his service, what it means to him and the flag. Of course he's entitled to think whatever he wants. We all are. And OF COURSE in my quote, I'm speaking in generalizations and there are exceptions to everything.
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Post by jenis40 on Sept 4, 2018 15:35:31 GMT
The way to really own the libs apparently is to destroy expensive merchandise you have already purchased, @nike, @keurig...
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Sept 4, 2018 15:40:04 GMT
Protests are effective when they inspire a collective action for reforms, not when they inspire even more divisiveness. I disagree. In looking at the history of protest, the ones that were effective were rarely pretty. They were peaceful on the protestors' side, but were generally met with resistance on a variety of levels. You know as well as I that civil rights era peaceful protests were not met by those happy with the status quo suddenly joining hands and singing kumbaya and seeing the light. Of course I know. There will always be resistance to reform. But the unifying message of the Civil Rights protests never got lost amidst all the horrifying events. The message prevailed. That is precisely my point. In this present situation, the message has been lost. It’s been consumed by the personalities and their actions. Look, I’m not trying to persuade anyone to change their minds; I’m merely presenting my own point of view. It’s just my hope that instead of the focus being on K/NFL/Trump that it, instead, be refocused on the true issues.
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 4, 2018 15:46:13 GMT
I wonder - what do the people who insist that players should stand for the anthem do when watching games/hearing the anthem at home? Do they rise or do they continue to sit on the couch with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other? I love the image and the wording. Really? You don't see the difference between an image of the flag and the actual physical presence of it?
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Post by #notLauren on Sept 4, 2018 15:52:43 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way. What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.” Exactly, your right to protest doesn't mean a right to interfere with me going about my daily business. And your right to protest doesn't mean I don't have a right to oppose you or to criticize you or to take whatever steps available to stop you. You seem to imply that your right to protest trumps everything else and the rights of everyone else be damned. Colin Kapernick staged his own form of protest. Then he had to deal with the repercussions, good or bad, of that protest.
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Post by Zee on Sept 4, 2018 15:53:01 GMT
It’s so exhausting when people say that people have the right to protest peacefully and then someone does and no, not peacefully in THAT way. What most people really seem to mean by “peaceful protest” is “as easy as possible to ignore and absolutely not a shred of inconvenience or discomfort to me.” Thank you for putting that succinctly... my feelings EXACTLY. He got people to pay attention. I'm so sick of hearing "well he sucked anyway" or "I can't protest at work, why should he" and carrying on as if his message was some sort of subversive terroristic threat to the average American way of life, the flag, the Constitution, eagles, the Grand Canyon, hot dogs, apple pie, grandmas, footballs, the Liberty Bell, and our military all in one.
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Post by busy on Sept 4, 2018 15:59:33 GMT
I disagree. In looking at the history of protest, the ones that were effective were rarely pretty. They were peaceful on the protestors' side, but were generally met with resistance on a variety of levels. You know as well as I that civil rights era peaceful protests were not met by those happy with the status quo suddenly joining hands and singing kumbaya and seeing the light. In this present situation, the message has been lost. It’s been consumed by the personalities and their actions. I disagree there too. I've seen it bring up A LOT of conversations that probably never would have been had without it. I think Kap's stance has brought a lot of visibility and beneficial discussion to the subject to people who aren't at either end of the spectrum. It's spread far beyond him now, and I see small bits of incremental change happening, and thinking evolving.
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Post by Merge on Sept 4, 2018 16:48:17 GMT
I wonder - what do the people who insist that players should stand for the anthem do when watching games/hearing the anthem at home? Do they rise or do they continue to sit on the couch with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other? I love the image and the wording. Really? You don't see the difference between an image of the flag and the actual physical presence of it? No. But then I don’t see anything special or sacred about the actual physical presence, either. It’s a weird American Christian notion that our flag is akin to a holy object. It’s not. It’s a symbol like any other. And I think forced/paid displays of patriotism should be stopped entirely.
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Post by thundergal on Sept 4, 2018 17:04:42 GMT
No. But then I don’t see anything special or sacred about the actual physical presence, either. It’s a weird American Christian notion that our flag is akin to a holy object. It’s not. It’s a symbol like any other. And I think forced/paid displays of patriotism should be stopped entirely. Well-said...and reminded me how people seem to feel about their guns. "Thing" worship. It's so damn bizarre to me.
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