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Post by sabrinae on Sept 6, 2018 15:10:53 GMT
The military pays the NFL for the anthem and advertising. The players were never on the field during the anthem until the military started paying Not accurate. The anthem has been played at football games for decades and the players were on the field. The only time they weren't was during prime time games. That changed in 2009 to accommodate the networks scheduling. I’ll acknowledge I worded that badly. It wasn’t unti 2009 that players were encouraged to be on the field. It had little to do with Network scheduling. It had to do with the military paying millions for “patriotic events” at games and other patriotic displays. There is a McCain/Flake report regarding this. Here’s an article that discusses it if I can get it linked. www.sbnation.com/2015/11/4/9670302/nfl-paid-patriotism-troops-mcain-flake-report-million |
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Post by artgirl1 on Sept 6, 2018 15:24:23 GMT
There seems to be more outrage over kneeling to protest police brutality, or a private company selecting that individual to represent them in a advertising campaign, than there is at children being slaughtered in schools, or children held in cages and separated from their parents.
We so have the First Amendment that allows for peaceful protest. It is an American right to protest as you chose. The flag is a symbol of our Country, and does not define whether you support the military and policemen. Twisting this protest by CK as an attack on the military rather than as an objection that many people of color are not treating equally is a one sided view.
You have a right to not support Nike, or support the NFL or protest in any way you choose. But it says a lot about your views if this upsets you more than the other issues that are facing this country at this time.
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Sept 6, 2018 15:47:05 GMT
Not accurate. The anthem has been played at football games for decades and the players were on the field. The only time they weren't was during prime time games. That changed in 2009 to accommodate the networks scheduling. I’ll acknowledge I worded that badly. It wasn’t unti 2009 that players were encouraged to be on the field. It had little to do with Network scheduling. It had to do with the military paying millions for “patriotic events” at games and other patriotic displays. There is a McCain/Flake report regarding this. Here’s an article that discusses it if I can get it linked. www.sbnation.com/2015/11/4/9670302/nfl-paid-patriotism-troops-mcain-flake-report-millionI'm not trying to be argumentative but these are 2 separate issues. Being on the field for the anthem did not start just because the military was paying the NFL. Snoops A portion from another article by PolitiFact; link"Singing the national anthem before National Football League games has been ongoing for "decades," said NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy. One aspect of this history that has spawned some confusion in recent days concerns a change made in 2009. Until that year, players in primetime games would remain inside their locker rooms while the anthem was sung, due to timing concerns for the television networks. After 2009, the players in primetime games have been on the field during the anthem, McCarthy said. But this change only affected primetime games. For all other games -- typically held at 1 p.m. or 4 p.m. Eastern -- players had already been stationed on the field for the national anthem. So the 2009 change simply applied to primetime games the rules that had already been in place for daytime games. Part of the confusion, McCarthy said, may be that television networks often haven’t shown the national anthem being played." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 16:26:23 GMT
We so have the First Amendment that allows for peaceful protest. It is an American right to protest as you chose. No one is denying his right or freedom to protest. That right doesn't automatically come with complete and utter agreement with his way of doing so. You have a right to not support Nike, or support the NFL or protest in any way you choose. But it says a lot about your views if this upsets you more than the other issues that are facing this country at this time. People are upset about both and one just as much as the other. |
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Post by lucyg on Sept 6, 2018 17:36:03 GMT
We have different definitions of inescapable. If it offends you, why would you watch what he played? I know I turn off the television when Trump plays his regular hits. I didn't say it offends me, I was using that to show the difference between most people don't know about his cause or what it even is, and how well everyone knows something about whether he should, sit, stand or kneel. What kind of an uneducated, unread idiot would someone have to be to NOT know what he’s protesting? All you have to do is read or listen to the next line of the news story. Good lord. I do not necessarily agree with all of his beliefs, but I think this Colin K. hate is ridiculous and over-the-top. He and other players are protesting over something they believe in. Instead of looking at the situation with new eyes or just ignoring them if you (general you) disagree, the Right, under the direction of their Dear Leader, is obsessing over whether some black guys who make more money than they do aren’t worshiping the flag to their satisfaction. Meanwhile, the country is falling apart before our eyes. |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 6, 2018 18:27:59 GMT
Frankly, I find wearing flag apparel far more disrespectful than kneeling. I really dislike flag apparel!!! |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 6, 2018 18:42:56 GMT
Yup. Admittedly, I have never understood the need for public flag reverence at sporting events (why not concerts, plays, movies?), but what is truly baffling is the insistence on interpreting any flag-based protest (actually, the athlete kneeling seems more like a mourning) as explicitly disrespecting veterans. Why don’t we recognize the myriad of other concepts equally represented in our “logo,” including equal opportunity and freedom from oppression...or even just plain freedom, our supposed dearest value, as this same flag flew over a slave nation, and we’re still dealing with the repercussions. Or not dealing, which is kind of the point. I have no idea what manner of protest would be acceptable in such a politically charged Us Against Them climate. Because how can people‘s eyes be opened to systemic oppression when so many of them are suckling their own lopsided interpretation of oppression/persecution? addressing the flag at sporting, but not other events: The anthem starting being played at baseball games during world war II as a symbol of patriotism and unity. Both the Canadian and American anthems are played at dog shows here in Washington. Almost everyone stops what they are doing for both. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 18:51:58 GMT
Honesty in my opinion the only reason we are is because of the media. Not because of his efforts. In those 2 years I still don't know what he actually suppprts and where his money goes. All I know is who he is sueing and that it did or did not go to court. Take away the media aspect of this all and no one would would be talking about it.Or more directly, trump. Who escalated this and the media covered. He brought it into the spotlight to rally his supporters. Been one of his hot topic talking points many times at his rallies, on twitter etc. Yes, the media covers it. But more so in covering the POTUS, which is their job. But what about when Obama was in office? It wasnt covered because of him. The media created a sh!t storm about it, like they do with a lot of things. My circle (small close friends and wider friends circle) talked about it once. All varrying opinions. We were all sick of the media putting him in our face. I was tired of hearing about it from sports commentators. But everyone around me didnt make a big deal out of it. Williams in my opinion deserves the ad spots. But from my personal view Collin shouldnt. Not because he kneeled but because he sucked as a player. Williams is a power house. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Sept 6, 2018 19:02:03 GMT
I didn't say it offends me, I was using that to show the difference between most people don't know about his cause or what it even is, and how well everyone knows something about whether he should, sit, stand or kneel. What kind of an uneducated, unread idiot would someone have to be to NOT know what he’s protesting? All you have to do is read or listen to the next line of the news story. Good lord. I do not necessarily agree with all of his beliefs, but I think this Colin K. hate is ridiculous and over-the-top. He and other players are protesting over something they believe in. Instead of looking at the situation with new eyes or just ignoring them if you (general you) disagree, the Right, under the direction of their Dear Leader, is obsessing over whether some black guys who make more money than they do aren’t worshiping the flag to their satisfaction. Meanwhile, the country is falling apart before our eyes. Seriously, all the problems in the world and Colin Kaepernick is public enemy number one. People setting their Nikes on fire and moaning about liberal tears. Have we reached peak stupidity yet? |
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Post by tara on Sept 6, 2018 19:28:27 GMT
What kind of an uneducated, unread idiot would someone have to be to NOT know what he’s protesting? All you have to do is read or listen to the next line of the news story. Good lord. I do not necessarily agree with all of his beliefs, but I think this Colin K. hate is ridiculous and over-the-top. He and other players are protesting over something they believe in. Instead of looking at the situation with new eyes or just ignoring them if you (general you) disagree, the Right, under the direction of their Dear Leader, is obsessing over whether some black guys who make more money than they do aren’t worshiping the flag to their satisfaction. Meanwhile, the country is falling apart before our eyes. Seriously, all the problems in the world and Colin Kaepernick is public enemy number one. People setting their Nikes on fire and moaning about liberal tears. Have we reached peak stupidity yet? An nfl player is our enemy and putin and North Korea are our friends. People claiming nfl players are being disrespectful yet how many of these yahoos are going to the restrooms or getting a beer or hotdog while the anthem is playing? Suddenly, oh no that’s different! How many of these people takes their flags in when it’s raining? How many of these people have a spotlight on their flag at night? Hypocrites! The president is the biggest whiner and he’s a 5 time draft dodger! I have said this every single day since 2016 “you just can’t make this shit up!” |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 6, 2018 19:58:20 GMT
Or more directly, trump. Who escalated this and the media covered. He brought it into the spotlight to rally his supporters. Been one of his hot topic talking points many times at his rallies, on twitter etc. Yes, the media covers it. But more so in covering the POTUS, which is their job. But what about when Obama was in office? It wasnt covered because of him. The media created a sh!t storm about it, like they do with a lot of things. My circle (small close friends and wider friends circle) talked about it once. All varrying opinions. We were all sick of the media putting him in our face. I was tired of hearing about it from sports commentators. But everyone around me didnt make a big deal out of it. Williams in my opinion deserves the ad spots. But from my personal view Collin shouldnt. Not because he kneeled but because he sucked as a player. Williams is a power house.
A timeline of Colin Kaepernick’s national anthem protest and the athletes who joined him
Trump spoke out against him almost immediately, as candidate trump. CK protest started in August 2016. Just months before the election. No one really noticed for a while. He sat on bench during anthem until kneeling was suggested by former military as more respectful which he started to do beginning of Sept. Candidate trump spoke out against him already in August, probably using it as a campaign tool. Obama made mention of it in early Sept saying it was hard to see but thought his motives were sincere. So knelt in Sept. Sept, then Oct followed by Nov election. From kneeling to pres elect trump was just over 2 months. Obama was only in office a few months of this protest when it was new aka "news". And trumps rants had already begun. Only to escalate to this day- over two years later. He's now been going on about it for literal years. My guess is if trump didn't have his ongoing temper tantrums via twitter, bring it up insistently at rallies and anywhere to play to his base, it would have calmed down by now. But he can't. He can't help himself from belittling anyone with a different opinion than him, rather big or small, important or not so much. If CK deserved the ad spots is up to the advertiser. We only have opinions. In my opinion, they aren't using him because he was a great player or not (all I know is good enough to be in NFL) but because of his convictions. In this instance, it's not about his play on the field. and yes, Williams rocks. On and off the court. I bet she was put in ad campaign for both. |
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Post by pierogi on Sept 6, 2018 20:06:53 GMT
Also interesting is Trump's newfound love of the military. Too bad he didn't love the military or the USA this much when he was dodging the draft. Or denigrating POWs. Don’t forget attacking Gold Star families. Smh. |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Sept 6, 2018 20:47:55 GMT
Seriously, all the problems in the world and Colin Kaepernick is public enemy number one. People setting their Nikes on fire and moaning about liberal tears. Have we reached peak stupidity yet? An nfl player is our enemy and putin and North Korea are our friends. People claiming nfl players are being disrespectful yet how many of these yahoos are going to the restrooms or getting a beer or hotdog while the anthem is playing? Suddenly, oh no that’s different! How many of these people takes their flags in when it’s raining? How many of these people have a spotlight on their flag at night? Hypocrites! The president is the biggest whiner and he’s a 5 time draft dodger! I have said this every single day since 2016 “you just can’t make this shit up!” I've lost count of the #of times you've called Trump a draft dodger and you're certainly free to feel that way but you're wrong. His selective service record, link. By the time he was classified 4-F in 1972 the war in Vietnam was winding down and we pulled out in March, 1973. If you want to continue to label him a draft dodger because of his school deferments than be my guest it please be aware that you are also applying that label to millions of other young men who got the same deferment for college during that time. The only people we considered true draft dodgers back then were the ones that fled to Cananda to avoid the service. |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 6, 2018 20:53:11 GMT
Or more directly, trump. Who escalated this and the media covered. He brought it into the spotlight to rally his supporters. Been one of his hot topic talking points many times at his rallies, on twitter etc. Yes, the media covers it. But more so in covering the POTUS, which is their job. But what about when Obama was in office? It wasnt covered because of him. The media created a sh!t storm about it, like they do with a lot of things. My circle (small close friends and wider friends circle) talked about it once. All varrying opinions. We were all sick of the media putting him in our face. I was tired of hearing about it from sports commentators. But everyone around me didnt make a big deal out of it.
Williams in my opinion deserves the ad spots. But from my personal view Collin shouldnt. Not because he kneeled but because he sucked as a player. Williams is a power house. It's not something my circle discusses either. And I don't see/hear a lot of Colin hate, just that many I know do not see him as a role model (or respect him) that others do. In my circle that was after his wearing of the pig socks. Nike is not supported by my dog people because of Michael Vick which has nothing to do with CK. |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 6, 2018 21:49:22 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger
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Post by tara on Sept 6, 2018 23:25:20 GMT
An nfl player is our enemy and putin and North Korea are our friends. People claiming nfl players are being disrespectful yet how many of these yahoos are going to the restrooms or getting a beer or hotdog while the anthem is playing? Suddenly, oh no that’s different! How many of these people takes their flags in when it’s raining? How many of these people have a spotlight on their flag at night? Hypocrites! The president is the biggest whiner and he’s a 5 time draft dodger! I have said this every single day since 2016 “you just can’t make this shit up!” I've lost count of the #of times you've called Trump a draft dodger and you're certainly free to feel that way but you're wrong. His selective service record, link. By the time he was classified 4-F in 1972 the war in Vietnam was winding down and we pulled out in March, 1973. If you want to continue to label him a draft dodger because of his school deferments than be my guest it please be aware that you are also applying that label to millions of other young men who got the same deferment for college during that time. The only people we considered true draft dodgers back then were the ones that fled to Cananda to avoid the service. Tell that to the family’s of my moms friends who lost their lives because they were too poor to go to college! |
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Post by used2scrap on Sept 6, 2018 23:44:57 GMT
I've lost count of the #of times you've called Trump a draft dodger and you're certainly free to feel that way but you're wrong. His selective service record, link. By the time he was classified 4-F in 1972 the war in Vietnam was winding down and we pulled out in March, 1973. If you want to continue to label him a draft dodger because of his school deferments than be my guest it please be aware that you are also applying that label to millions of other young men who got the same deferment for college during that time. The only people we considered true draft dodgers back then were the ones that fled to Cananda to avoid the service. Tell that to the family’s of my moms friends who lost their lives because they were too poor to go to college! I recall Bill Clinton’s not serving in Vietnam because of education being considered draft dodging. Heck I recall George Bush’s service in the Air National Guard being considered draft dodging. |
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Post by tara on Sept 6, 2018 23:54:45 GMT
Tell that to the family’s of my moms friends who lost their lives because they were too poor to go to college! I recall Bill Clinton’s not serving in Vietnam because of education being considered draft dodging. Heck I recall George Bush’s service in the Air National Guard being considered draft dodging. I didn’t vote for neither of those two but I don’t recall them calling their fellow man “sons of bitches” for taking a knee. I believe in glass houses. you better make sure you don’t live in a glass house if you want to throw rocks. |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pyccku on Sept 6, 2018 23:59:59 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger He had a career in the NFL. That may not be important to you, but I would guess that from what I've seen from other professional athletes, that takes a LOT of dedication and training. Over the course of many years, he trained and put his body through hell in order to play football. He risked concussion and paralysis and a whole lot of other possible injuries in order to get to this level.
That career is now over. You may not believe that it is a sacrifice, but for him it was. It's not just the money - anyone who makes it to the NFL must be dedicated to the sport of football. It's not a hobby they do on the side, but their life.
If someone who had gone to medical school and residency to become a doctor later ended up losing that career against their wishes (due to their standing up for or against a policy that was controversial) we'd say that they had sacrificed their career. If someone who had joined the military to become a fighter pilot got through the training and finally became a pilot but gave it up to stay home with a sick child, we would say that they had sacrificed their career. Any other job that requires talent, dedication, discipline and training - we would say it was a sacrifice if you gave it up for a greater good (or something you felt was a greater cause).
Why not this case? Probably because: A. people don't like his protests B. people think football is a fun game that he should feel 'lucky' to be allowed to play, rather than a difficult career with a short shelf life and great risk of permanent injury C. people think that since he's not living paycheck to paycheck, it wasn't a sacrifice to give up the millions
Funny, when Pat Tilman gave up HIS football career for something HE believed was right, nobody had a problem calling it a sacrifice.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 7, 2018 0:05:22 GMT
I saw part of the ad today on the View. I really liked it.
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Post by christine58 on Sept 7, 2018 0:09:10 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger He had a career in the NFL. That may not be important to you, but I would guess that from what I've seen from other professional athletes, that takes a LOT of dedication and training. Over the course of many years, he trained and put his body through hell in order to play football. He risked concussion and paralysis and a whole lot of other possible injuries in order to get to this level.
That career is now over. You may not believe that it is a sacrifice, but for him it was. It's not just the money - anyone who makes it to the NFL must be dedicated to the sport of football. It's not a hobby they do on the side, but their life.
If someone who had gone to medical school and residency to become a doctor later ended up losing that career against their wishes (due to their standing up for or against a policy that was controversial) we'd say that they had sacrificed their career. If someone who had joined the military to become a fighter pilot got through the training and finally became a pilot but gave it up to stay home with a sick child, we would say that they had sacrificed their career. Any other job that requires talent, dedication, discipline and training - we would say it was a sacrifice if you gave it up for a greater good (or something you felt was a greater cause).
Why not this case? Probably because: A. people don't like his protests B. people think football is a fun game that he should feel 'lucky' to be allowed to play, rather than a difficult career with a short shelf life and great risk of permanent injury C. people think that since he's not living paycheck to paycheck, it wasn't a sacrifice to give up the millions
Funny, when Pat Tilman gave up HIS football career for something HE believed was right, nobody had a problem calling it a sacrifice.
Oh I completely understand the NFL etc...I know the determination and perseverance it takes, and the risks. You're preaching to the choir about that with me. The average years of playing is about 4-5...so they have to make as much money as they can when they can. That being said...I still wish they had picked someone else but they did not. So Nike will have to live with that. |
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 7, 2018 0:09:55 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger for me, I would say he sacrificed his name, his ability to play for another team, his reputation, his income... Like what he stands for or not, I think he was willing to sacrifice his livelihood and his life as he knew it. It all changed after for him. How many people dont make waves at work because they need the job? How many dont stand up to injustice because of a perceived consequence? |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 7, 2018 0:15:17 GMT
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Post by tara on Sept 7, 2018 0:19:36 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger I know you want people to say money but it’s a lot more than that. It’s his legacy. Some people say he wasn’t that good. I don’t know. I never liked the 49’s. That just might be sour grapes because he was in the super bowl. he might have continued to play. We will never know now. But to these players, their legacy means everything to them. My son loves football. You always see him with one. He and my husband goes to their favorite college game every year. He lives, breathes football. They talk about all his dreams of playing for that college and going pro. I know it’s just a dream but it’s his dream. It breaks my heart to think if he did achieve that goal and then have it taken away. Then have people burn his jersey and hate him for having courage to stand up for something he feels deeply for. In 20 years Kaepernick could have been remembered as being a Super Bowl quarterback. Now he is known for being hated. Now can you answer me this question. Has he done anything to harm anybody? |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Sept 7, 2018 0:22:32 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger for me, I would say he sacrificed his name, his ability to play for another team, his reputation, his income... Like what he stands for or not, I think he was willing to sacrifice his livelihood and his life as he knew it. It all changed after for him. How many people dont make waves at work because they need the job? How many dont stand up to injustice because of a perceived consequence? From what I've seen and heard it was because he wasn't good enough, not because he protested. He tried out for my home team and wasn't offered a job because he wasn't what our team needed. We had players that kneeled and we wouldn't have had him try out if we weren't looking at his skills  |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 7, 2018 0:23:35 GMT
I know you want people to say money but it’s a lot more than that. Don't PUT words in my mouth. Not true |
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Post by tara on Sept 7, 2018 0:24:06 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger He had a career in the NFL. That may not be important to you, but I would guess that from what I've seen from other professional athletes, that takes a LOT of dedication and training. Over the course of many years, he trained and put his body through hell in order to play football. He risked concussion and paralysis and a whole lot of other possible injuries in order to get to this level.
That career is now over. You may not believe that it is a sacrifice, but for him it was. It's not just the money - anyone who makes it to the NFL must be dedicated to the sport of football. It's not a hobby they do on the side, but their life.
If someone who had gone to medical school and residency to become a doctor later ended up losing that career against their wishes (due to their standing up for or against a policy that was controversial) we'd say that they had sacrificed their career. If someone who had joined the military to become a fighter pilot got through the training and finally became a pilot but gave it up to stay home with a sick child, we would say that they had sacrificed their career. Any other job that requires talent, dedication, discipline and training - we would say it was a sacrifice if you gave it up for a greater good (or something you felt was a greater cause).
Why not this case? Probably because: A. people don't like his protests B. people think football is a fun game that he should feel 'lucky' to be allowed to play, rather than a difficult career with a short shelf life and great risk of permanent injury C. people think that since he's not living paycheck to paycheck, it wasn't a sacrifice to give up the millions
Funny, when Pat Tilman gave up HIS football career for something HE believed was right, nobody had a problem calling it a sacrifice.
This. You said it better than I did. |
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,840
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Sept 7, 2018 0:27:03 GMT
Can someone who has NO issue with CK and this ad please tell me WHAT HE has sacrificed?? PLEASE... I like the message just not the messenger I know you want people to say money but it’s a lot more than that. It’s his legacy. Some people say he wasn’t that good. I don’t know. I never liked the 49’s. That just might be sour grapes because he was in the super bowl. he might have continued to play. We will never know now. But to these players, their legacy means everything to them. My son loves football. You always see him with one. He and my husband goes to their favorite college game every year. He lives, breathes football. They talk about all his dreams of playing for that college and going pro. I know it’s just a dream but it’s his dream. It breaks my heart to think if he did achieve that goal and then have it taken away. Then have people burn his jersey and hate him for having courage to stand up for something he feels deeply for. In 20 years Kaepernick could have been remembered as being a Super Bowl quarterback. Now he is known for being hated. Now can you answer me this question. Has he done anything to harm anybody? I don't believe he has harmed anyone, other than their feelings or beliefs standing up for his own. in turn, I believe he is said to received death threats. I know I've seen some vile- if not directly, bordering on threatening/violent- things said about him online. |
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Post by tara on Sept 7, 2018 0:28:03 GMT
I know you want people to say money but it’s a lot more than that. Don't PUT words in my mouth. Not true Really because that’s all I’m hearing from the haters. Btw I know a few people who look rich but have no money in the bank. It’s not how much you make. It’s how much you spend. We don’t know how much money he has. |
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Post by christine58 on Sept 7, 2018 0:31:33 GMT
Really because that’s all I’m hearing from the haters. Btw I know a few people who look rich but have no money in the bank. It’s not how much you make. It’s how much you spend. We don’t know how much money he has. REALLY... yes REALLY.. I don't HATE CK or anyone..well there is someone on this board that I come close to hating... But I appreciate the adult answers from freecharlie and pyccku |
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