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Post by hop2 on Nov 29, 2018 19:02:17 GMT
I wonder what Rainbow and Lauren would say with all this information coming out while trying to spin this using Hillary or Obama. Because you know Fakenews blah blah blah Hillary's emails etc... Benghazi Tan suit Anything but Hillary
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Post by withapea on Nov 29, 2018 19:07:52 GMT
Please, please, please let this amount to something real. I feel like I'm living in the damn Twilight Zone where this Teflon coated man is president. I honestly can't fathom how any of this has been allowed to happen. One of the these transgressions would have taken down past administrations. Corrupt doesn't even begin to describe the cesspool that is Trump and his enablers.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Nov 29, 2018 19:08:03 GMT
I think what I love most about Mueller is that he seems to be cool as a cucumber. With all of Trump's tweets about him, and the witch hunt, etc., he never ever responds; he just keeps plugging away doing his work. Yeah, the joke is that the easiest job in the world is to be Mueller's spokesman. "No comment." Until, of course, the day when all hell breaks loose and everything comes out. It almost feels like we're at that point now.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 20, 2024 5:56:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 19:12:01 GMT
linkNPR... “The rate of uninsured children typically remains stable or drops during times of economic growth. But in the first year of the Trump administration, the number of U.S. children without health insurance rose by 276,000.” #MAGA?
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Post by lucyg on Nov 29, 2018 19:17:52 GMT
linkNPR... “The rate of uninsured children typically remains stable or drops during times of economic growth. But in the first year of the Trump administration, the number of U.S. children without health insurance rose by 276,000.” #MAGA? I Liked your post, but what I really meant was:
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 29, 2018 19:31:23 GMT
Do you think he lied because Trump has floated the pardon to him? Yes. I think he took the deal with every intention of working as a mole to outsmart Mueller. But they forgot two very important things: 1. Mueller already knows everything. 2. It’s hard to outsmart someone when the two of you are Dumb and Dumber and the guy you’re trying to outsmart is pretty damn smart. This is what it looks like to me. The arrogance of this guys is astounding. I hope all the lawyers involved are prosecuted as well.
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Post by coffeetalk on Nov 29, 2018 19:33:28 GMT
ANGRY NAVAL OFFICER @blueghost40_
Melania decorating the Whitehouse in blood red trees perfectly captures the mood of the country under trump. It's like a period that never fucking ends.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,394
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 29, 2018 19:35:18 GMT
Reminds me of John Gotti. They never seemed to be able to convict him and then, just one-more-time did it. I hope this is the beginning of the end.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,001
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Nov 29, 2018 20:11:40 GMT
Tomorrow is Friday. What are the chances we will see Donny Jr walking out of a building in handcuffs? It really feels like things are happening so fast now! I would love to celebrate Christmas knowing that Trump's days in the White House are numbered.
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Post by peano on Nov 29, 2018 20:30:09 GMT
trump... ”Did you ever see an investigation more in search of a crime? At the same time Mueller and the Angry Democrats aren’t even looking at the atrocious, and perhaps subversive, crimes that were committed by Crooked Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. A total disgrace!” “When will this illegal Joseph McCarthy style Witch Hunt, one that has shattered so many innocent lives, ever end-or will it just go on forever? After wasting more than $40,000,000 (is that possible?), it has proven only one thing-there was NO Collusion with Russia. So Ridiculous!” Wasn’t it $30M yesterday or the day before yesterday? For a witch hunt there sure are a lot of people pleading guilty. I don’t know where he’s getting that figure from. I just checked Mueller’s reports of expenditures to the DOJ. From the period of May 17, 2017 (when Mueller was appointed) through March 31, 2018, the Special Counsel’s Office reported a total of $9,022,000 in expenditures. There is no public report yet for the last eight months, but even if you add another $10M, that still doesn’t come close to $40M. And all assets seized from Manafort will more than pay for this investigation. Plus in this political climate, can you really put a price on truth and integrity?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 29, 2018 21:34:46 GMT
In keeping with the one thing after another, he just canceled his last 2 formal meetings at the G20 and will no longer meet with Turkey or South Korea. Coward!!
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,995
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Nov 29, 2018 21:42:32 GMT
A BBC article about the drop in numbers of overseas students going to the U.S. "The number of new international students enrolling at United States universities and colleges went down by almost 7% last year, according to official data published this month. It's the second year in a row that the number of new international enrolments in the US has declined, denting a market worth $42bn (£33bn) to the US economy last year. Prof Simon Marginson, of Oxford University, an expert on trends in international students, says there is "little doubt" this downturn is related to the Trump administration. He says it's a combination of the anti-immigration messages putting off applicants and the tightening of the student visa system." More in link www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46344113
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 29, 2018 21:45:03 GMT
I have a question. If Manafort violated his plea agreement with Mueller, aren’t there major consequences? Oh, yes. Many consequences, as a matter of fact. Do you wish to know what all of them are? (I, personally, have never seen anything like this, which is one of the stupidest things a felon can do.) Yes, I would love to know of the consequences, especially if they can prove it was premeditated. I'm not sure if i want to think it was the pardon that was the motive, or if Trump's people threatened him and they can go after him/them for something even stronger.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Nov 29, 2018 21:47:36 GMT
Chickens coming home to roost day? 🎶🎶 Brown paper packages tied up with strings... These are a few of my favorite things! 🎶🎶 If this all finally comes to fruition I will tie all my Christmas Presents with string and wrap in brown paper this year!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 20, 2024 5:56:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 22:10:55 GMT
trump 2/7/2017
“I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy - yet Obama can make a deal with Iran, #1 in terror, no problem!”
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 20, 2024 5:56:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 22:17:08 GMT
And in other news... James Comey... “Today my legal team filed court papers to try to get transparency from House Republicans. Let the American people watch. dechert.com/content/dam/de…” link
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Nov 29, 2018 22:22:34 GMT
Reminds me of John Gotti. They never seemed to be able to convict him and then, just one-more-time did it. You do know who got John Gotti? I'm thinking some of the peas may not know.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 29, 2018 22:23:45 GMT
I can't read the article, but I can see the photo-- hahaha!! eta: did Vanity Fair always have a limit on how many electronic articles you can read? I think I've just started being blocked recently... (I just don't feel like clearing my browser history right now.)
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Post by artgirl1 on Nov 29, 2018 22:26:25 GMT
I believe I heard they can re-try him on some of the charges He has already pled to the charges, and a plea agreement was worked out, however, now any plea deal offered by the Prosecutors is no longer binding, and he can be sentenced much more harshly, and will forfeit more assets. There is no need for a 'retrial'.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 29, 2018 22:27:39 GMT
Reminds me of John Gotti. They never seemed to be able to convict him and then, just one-more-time did it. You do know who got John Gotti? I'm thinking some of the peas may not know.This is just delightful information.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Nov 29, 2018 22:34:09 GMT
Oh, yes. Many consequences, as a matter of fact. Do you wish to know what all of them are? (I, personally, have never seen anything like this, which is one of the stupidest things a felon can do.) Yes, I would love to know of the consequences, especially if they can prove it was premeditated. I'm not sure if i want to think it was the pardon that was the motive, or if Trump's people threatened him and they can go after him/them for something even stronger. Consequences for breaching the plea agreement: (1) Manafort will still do prison time for the charges he pled guilty to even if the plea agreement has been nullified. These charges include money laundering, bank fraud, foreign lobbying violations, all of which he pled guilty to but were dropped as part of the agreement. When a felon breaches a plea deal, he’s no longer allowed to withdraw a guilty plea. (2) He lost the sentence reduction. Mueller was willing to reduce what’s called the base level offense (which I explained in one of my posts re Papadopoulos) by two levels, which would have brought down his sentence considerably. Gone now. (3) There will be a new federal indictment because Mueller’s court filing stated that Manafort committed new federal crimes while violating his plea agreement. (4) He is now subject to prosecution for crimes he did NOT plead guilty to. (5) Mueller can forward, and likely will, all evidence - testimonies, documents, etc - to the state, and Manafort can be prosecuted at the state level (even if he is pardoned), criminal and civil, even for the same charges he pled guilty to in federal court. Double jeopardy does not apply with overlapping cases between federal and state. (This has nothing to do with his conviction in the Eastern District of Virginia. That’s a federal district court and his sentencing for that will be Feb 8 2019.) (6) The ten counts on which the jury in Eastern District of Virginia deadlocked (jury found him guilty on eight counts) can be retried. (7) Seized assets will remain seized. Once a felon agrees to the seizure of assets, that consent is irrevocable even when the plea deal is nullified. (8) DC (federal) can now prosecute him. The plea deal prevented Manafort’s prosecution in the DC court. That’s gone now. Even if he was relying on a pardon, this was a huge gamble. He can still be prosecuted at the state level, can be subpoenaed to testify in front of a grand jury and if he lies can be prosecuted for perjury, and lose his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. I cannot believe his lawyers agreed to such a huge risk. If they did, that’s bordering on malpractice.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 29, 2018 22:34:47 GMT
I believe I heard they can re-try him on some of the charges He has already pled to the charges, and a plea agreement was worked out, however, now any plea deal offered by the Prosecutors is no longer binding, and he can be sentenced much more harshly, and will forfeit more assets. There is no need for a 'retrial'. ahhh-- thank you. I knew it had something to do with the fact that his plea bargain was null and void, but I thought they could try him on additional charges. (I guess I was thinking about the mistrial on some of his Virginia charges) ETA: the fact that they can sentence him more harshly, and take MORE / ALL of his assets, just makes me think he's stupider than I thought. Even if Trump's TOLD him he'll pardon him (which is obviously witness tampering, so if Trump wasn't as dumb as a box of rocks he won't do it), Manafort's family will still end up with pretty much no $$, won't they? (unless he stashed some assets offshore for them.) ETA2: thank you, lizacreates, for your explanation. Reading THAT, I think Manafort is even STUPIDER to have done something so bone-headed. The whole thing is "Stupid Watergate" indeed. (thanks to Trevor Noah for that phrase, I think.)
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Post by hop2 on Nov 29, 2018 22:37:18 GMT
A BBC article about the drop in numbers of overseas students going to the U.S. "The number of new international students enrolling at United States universities and colleges went down by almost 7% last year, according to official data published this month. It's the second year in a row that the number of new international enrolments in the US has declined, denting a market worth $42bn (£33bn) to the US economy last year. Prof Simon Marginson, of Oxford University, an expert on trends in international students, says there is "little doubt" this downturn is related to the Trump administration. He says it's a combination of the anti-immigration messages putting off applicants and the tightening of the student visa system." More in link www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46344113Why Come here for university 1 it’s expensive 2 student visas & visa requirement just got more complicated this past summer 3 you could randomly be shot in a school shooting 4 the POTUS & his nationalist pals are sending a real message to other nations that they are unwelcome here. Sure he says yes we want students to come study here but turns around a tweets unwelcoming BS. He’s called countries shitholes, he’s provoked Canada lying about them, and he’s said crap about 1/2 of Europe’s countries even going so far as to make up tragedies that did not happen. These are not the actions of the leader of a welcoming country Really? I’m surprised it’s only gone down 7% I wouldn’t want to come here
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Post by hop2 on Nov 29, 2018 22:42:25 GMT
trump 2/7/2017 “I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy - yet Obama can make a deal with Iran, #1 in terror, no problem!” Obama did not make a personal deal with Iran for his own business to personally profit. Obama made a deal, in conjunction with other nations, to attempt to keep peace with Iran and stop or slow Nuclear proliferation. He’s comparing apples and Poetry or something there.
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DEX
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,394
Aug 9, 2014 23:13:22 GMT
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Post by DEX on Nov 29, 2018 23:19:53 GMT
Another interesting event. Comey is challenging a subpoena from the GOP for his closed door testimony. He wants to testify publicly so his testimony can’t be leaked or changed. Like his spunk. link
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,790
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Nov 29, 2018 23:21:04 GMT
Chickens coming home to roost day? 🎶🎶 Brown paper packages tied up with strings... These are a few of my favorite things! 🎶🎶 Burke is another local/not local around here. Back in the 80s (?) there was a sketchy land deal on the lake here where he was involved but tried to keep his name out of it, or soemthing. I don't remember the particulars but just remember everyone thinking it was some sort of abuse of power and wealth. Well of course. Google is my friend. Today they have an article on it. ALDERMEN SWING A BARGAIN LAND DEAL(I miss Honey Bear Farm. Used to ride my bike to the candy store there, especially for their rock candy) I also remember some old-timers making up a drink and naming it after Burke. He has/had (?) a house on the lake and fell through the ice once after allegedly drinking/drunk. Locals knew the ice wasn't safe yet but I guess he didn't. Wasn't far out in a bay so wasn't over their heads. I remember the drink being "a JERK of gin Nehi (knee high) in ice." The stupid things you (I) remember! Prob because I was amused.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 29, 2018 23:22:27 GMT
Yes, I would love to know of the consequences, especially if they can prove it was premeditated. I'm not sure if i want to think it was the pardon that was the motive, or if Trump's people threatened him and they can go after him/them for something even stronger. Consequences for breaching the plea agreement: (1) Manafort will still do prison time for the charges he pled guilty to even if the plea agreement has been nullified. These charges include money laundering, bank fraud, foreign lobbying violations, all of which he pled guilty to but were dropped as part of the agreement. When a felon breaches a plea deal, he’s no longer allowed to withdraw a guilty plea. (2) He lost the sentence reduction. Mueller was willing to reduce what’s called the base level offense (which I explained in one of my posts re Papadopoulos) by two levels, which would have brought down his sentence considerably. Gone now. (3) There will be a new federal indictment because Mueller’s court filing stated that Manafort committed new federal crimes while violating his plea agreement. (4) He is now subject to prosecution for crimes he did NOT plead guilty to. (5) Mueller can forward, and likely will, all evidence - testimonies, documents, etc - to the state, and Manafort can be prosecuted at the state level (even if he is pardoned), criminal and civil, even for the same charges he pled guilty to in federal court. Double jeopardy does not apply with overlapping cases between federal and state. (This has nothing to do with his conviction in the Eastern District of Virginia. That’s a federal district court and his sentencing for that will be Feb 8 2019.) (6) The ten counts on which the jury in Eastern District of Virginia deadlocked (jury found him guilty on eight counts) can be retried. (7) Seized assets will remain seized. Once a felon agrees to the seizure of assets, that consent is irrevocable even when the plea deal is nullified. (8) DC (federal) can now prosecute him. The plea deal prevented Manafort’s prosecution in the DC court. That’s gone now. Even if he was relying on a pardon, this was a huge gamble. He can still be prosecuted at the state level, can be subpoenaed to testify in front of a grand jury and if he lies can be prosecuted for perjury, and lose his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. I cannot believe his lawyers agreed to such a huge risk. If they did, that’s bordering on malpractice. Daaaang. Stupid, indeed. Thank you so much for spelling that all out for me. If he is pardoned, does that negate the prison time?
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Nov 29, 2018 23:28:44 GMT
Consequences for breaching the plea agreement: (1) Manafort will still do prison time for the charges he pled guilty to even if the plea agreement has been nullified. These charges include money laundering, bank fraud, foreign lobbying violations, all of which he pled guilty to but were dropped as part of the agreement. When a felon breaches a plea deal, he’s no longer allowed to withdraw a guilty plea. (2) He lost the sentence reduction. Mueller was willing to reduce what’s called the base level offense (which I explained in one of my posts re Papadopoulos) by two levels, which would have brought down his sentence considerably. Gone now. (3) There will be a new federal indictment because Mueller’s court filing stated that Manafort committed new federal crimes while violating his plea agreement. (4) He is now subject to prosecution for crimes he did NOT plead guilty to. (5) Mueller can forward, and likely will, all evidence - testimonies, documents, etc - to the state, and Manafort can be prosecuted at the state level (even if he is pardoned), criminal and civil, even for the same charges he pled guilty to in federal court. Double jeopardy does not apply with overlapping cases between federal and state. (This has nothing to do with his conviction in the Eastern District of Virginia. That’s a federal district court and his sentencing for that will be Feb 8 2019.) (6) The ten counts on which the jury in Eastern District of Virginia deadlocked (jury found him guilty on eight counts) can be retried. (7) Seized assets will remain seized. Once a felon agrees to the seizure of assets, that consent is irrevocable even when the plea deal is nullified. (8) DC (federal) can now prosecute him. The plea deal prevented Manafort’s prosecution in the DC court. That’s gone now. Even if he was relying on a pardon, this was a huge gamble. He can still be prosecuted at the state level, can be subpoenaed to testify in front of a grand jury and if he lies can be prosecuted for perjury, and lose his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. I cannot believe his lawyers agreed to such a huge risk. If they did, that’s bordering on malpractice. Daaaang. Stupid, indeed. Thank you so much for spelling that all out for me. If he is pardoned, does that negate the prison time? Yes, for federal, not state. Believe it or not, state will often have heavier sentences.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Nov 29, 2018 23:30:07 GMT
Daaaang. Stupid, indeed. Thank you so much for spelling that all out for me. If he is pardoned, does that negate the prison time? Yes, for federal, not state. Believe it or not, state will often have heavier sentences. But that's only if the state decides to bring charges, is that right?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 20, 2024 5:56:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 23:38:45 GMT
Rachel Maddow Blog... “Sure. This is totally normal. Nothing to see here. Move right along. What presidential campaign *hasn't* done something like this. "The Trump Organization planned to give Putin a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow". From Buzzfeed. If true, trump was being awfully generous to someone he claims he didn’t know. link
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