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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 21, 2019 22:09:42 GMT
They were threatened with violence with their address revealed giving crazy people a literal road map to carry it out and your answer is that they only had to worry about a wedding? and if it was a black kid the police would come and shoot him for what they perceived in the video? Seriously? Extremely WRONG! Just plain wrong! Unfortunately this situation has escalated in the last 2+ years. Some of the behavior in the WH has filtered down to others. It will take a very long time to restore common sense, understanding and caring for others.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 22:22:25 GMT
They were threatened with violence with their address revealed giving crazy people a literal road map to carry it out and your answer is that they only had to worry about a wedding? and if it was a black kid the police would come and shoot him for what they perceived in the video? Seriously? Extremely WRONG! Just plain wrong! Unfortunately this situation has escalated in the last 2+ years. Some of the behavior in the WH has filtered down to others. It will take a very long time to restore common sense, understanding and caring for others. This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general.
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Post by peatlejuice on Jan 21, 2019 22:26:12 GMT
No matter what happened here, the ensuing mob mentality of pitchforks and torches before you know all the facts is going to get someone hurt or even killed. A kid and his family in Ohio are being physically threatened and having their business and lives ruined because he "resembled" the kid in the video. He wasn't even there. His brother tweeted 1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum 2) People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn't enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked. 3) No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him 4) My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this? Celebrities tweeting & demanding to know who this kid is and he should be held accountable just gets the crazies riled up and put into action. Do they have any accountability? I generally oppose doxxing, and have no problems with celebrities or others who doxx being held accountable. But my question to you is, do you feel this way if it is someone like, say, Lou Dobbs, who doxxed an alleged sexual victim of Trump's in 2016? Or the 4chan right-wingers who doxxed Zoe Quinn at the height of GamerGate? I'll also say that I hope this inconvenienced wedding family makes it a point to get on the ass of the family whose son is the true culprit, and on the school, for putting all of them at risk, if that's truly such a concern for them. After all, if those brats and their hateful teachers had actually practiced Christ's love that day, they wouldn't have been in this situation. But somehow, based on this person's tweets, I doubt they will.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 21, 2019 22:27:02 GMT
Extremely WRONG! Just plain wrong! Unfortunately this situation has escalated in the last 2+ years. Some of the behavior in the WH has filtered down to others. It will take a very long time to restore common sense, understanding and caring for others. This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general. I would agree that doxxing and harassment aren't new to the Trump presidency. However, I would say that I see more public acts of racism than I noticed before. Maybe I'm paying better attention now.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2019 22:30:21 GMT
Another video has surfaced. Yep. I call bullshit on the letter/statements that “they got their chaperones permission to sing “school chants”” these were not school chants. A few boys looked sheepish and stopped their chanting when the camera person panned on them—they knew it was not right.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 22:31:22 GMT
No matter what happened here, the ensuing mob mentality of pitchforks and torches before you know all the facts is going to get someone hurt or even killed. A kid and his family in Ohio are being physically threatened and having their business and lives ruined because he "resembled" the kid in the video. He wasn't even there. His brother tweeted 1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum 2) People then proceeded to spam my family with harassments and threats of physical violence. We then find out our parents address was posted online. If that wasn't enough, our family operated business has been slandered and attacked. 3) No one reviews evidence or does any due diligence, they immediately escalate things to a state of frenzy over much of nothing. The zealots scream for the head of #MichaelHodge knowing that their will be zero consequences to them if anything happens to him 4) My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of shit parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this? Celebrities tweeting & demanding to know who this kid is and he should be held accountable just gets the crazies riled up and put into action. Do they have any accountability? I generally oppose doxxing, and have no problems with celebrities or others who doxx being held accountable. But my question to you is, do you feel this way if it is someone like, say, Lou Dobbs, who doxxed an alleged sexual victim of Trump's in 2016? Or the 4chan right-wingers who doxxed Zoe Quinn at the height of GamerGate? I'll also say that I hope this inconvenienced wedding family makes it a point to get on the ass of the family whose son is the true culprit, and on the school, for putting all of them at risk, if that's truly such a concern for them. After all, if those brats and their hateful teachers had actually practiced Christ's love that day, they wouldn't have been in this situation. But somehow, based on this person's tweets, I doubt they will. I don't know about those situations but yes I feel that way about anyone putting anyone else in danger in any way and especially in a malicious way. To your second point, I don't see judging this kid who tweeted this. He did nothing wrong, he's a victim of mob mentality.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 22:38:28 GMT
This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general. I would agree that doxxing and harassment aren't new to the Trump presidency. However, I would say that I see more public acts of racism than I noticed before. Maybe I'm paying better attention now. I would say we're all paying more attention now and there are those that like to blame the president as if he invented it. I've also seen a lot of false reports of violence and acts of racism and hate that turn out it was staged against themselves. Why, I don't know. There wasn't enough of it going on for their liking? Who gets the blame for that? Does it belong to the outrage mob? that's not sarcasm
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2019 22:40:13 GMT
Extremely WRONG! Just plain wrong! Unfortunately this situation has escalated in the last 2+ years. Some of the behavior in the WH has filtered down to others. It will take a very long time to restore common sense, understanding and caring for others. This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general. What she’s telling you that you’re glossing over is that trump/wh has given a voice to this type of blatant racism. She never said trump started it—that was your claim. What She did say was that in the last 2 years it has escalated. Why might that be? Gee—we have a potus who refers to a well respected congresswoman as Pocahontas. He spews it on a regular basis. On January 13 of THIS year, trump insulted Native Indians again with a tweet— “If Elizabeth Warren, often referred to by me as Pocahontas, did this commercial from Bighorn or Wounded Knee instead of her kitchen, with her husband dressed in full Indian garb, it would have been a smash!” The GOP Senators have been working diligently to suppress voting by Native Indians. So—-these kids, wearing their stylish little maga hats, coming from a school with systemic racial issues, at least one parent who spews the same garbage as trump, it’s not rocket science to come to the conclusion that they are following the lead of trump. I do agree that the doxxing and threats of violence against these kids/family are not okay. Also, trump does his own brand of “doxing and threats” openly and on Twitter—most recently against Cohen’s father(or father-in-law) and Giuliani glossed over the threat by saying trump was defending himself—a total bullshit excuse—just like some of the crap in this kids letter and the interview his mother did. Trump’s done it to congresspeople, the state of California, Puerto Rico, people who have told the truth about him. One of the things I’ve noticed is that the are people, who will gloss over, gaslight, become apologists for behavior (mostly by white males) that others (non-male and/or non-white) would be held accountable for in the most severe way.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 21, 2019 22:54:26 GMT
I would agree that doxxing and harassment aren't new to the Trump presidency. However, I would say that I see more public acts of racism than I noticed before. Maybe I'm paying better attention now. I would say we're all paying more attention now and there are those that like to blame the president as if he invented it. I've also seen a lot of false reports of violence and acts of racism and hate that turn out it was staged against themselves. Why, I don't know. There wasn't enough of it going on for their liking? Who gets the blame for that? Does it belong to the outrage mob? that's not sarcasm You are the one here who keeps on putting out there words like “trump started it” “trump invented it” gaslighting the issue. People are pissed because in 2019, our society has regressed to a time where it was accepted to be racially insensitive and offensive and absolutely—without a doubt—instances certainly HAVE increased in the last 2-1/2 years BECAUSE the current potus and administration have no problem displaying their racist beliefs, their racial and ethnic offensiveness right out in the open. To see it, All you have to do is go take a peek at trump’s twitter, then watch the GOP make excuses, join in, and defend him, then watch the news (just watch Fox News) for their racist bull shit, then finally round out to seeing Sarah Huckabee and KellyAnne spin it right round baby, right round!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 23:02:58 GMT
These two pictures are amazingly sad. Will the world ever change ☹️ Lord, the MAGA kid looks like the reincarnation of the kid in the white t shirt on the right side of the picture. It's super creepy, scary and sad. I had that exact thought last night when I saw it and wasn't able to post a response to it at the time.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 21, 2019 23:48:26 GMT
Extremely WRONG! Just plain wrong! Unfortunately this situation has escalated in the last 2+ years. Some of the behavior in the WH has filtered down to others. It will take a very long time to restore common sense, understanding and caring for others. This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general. Did not say it came from the WH................... As bolded: Some of the Behavior in the WH has filtered down to others.
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Post by peace on Jan 21, 2019 23:54:19 GMT
I just started following George Godwyn on FB and he addressed it today: linkGeorge Godwyn 10 hrs · "I attended my first Trump event sometime in the summer of 2016 (I don’t remember exactly when and I’m too lazy to google.). The future president was going to be featured in a live “town hall” event on braniac Sean Hannity’s nightly Fox show and it was being filmed not far from where I live, so I decided to go see the phenomena for myself, try to understand it. The first thing I noticed, entering the venue, was the crowd. They were, at least as far as I saw, literally 100% white, the only exception being one visibly displeased on-duty African-American cop, but they were not really what I expected. I went expecting a much more rowdy, aggressive crowd, angrier. These people were abnormally subdued, it seemed to me, almost timid. A lot of them were obviously from outlying, rural areas and they seemed to feel themselves out of place. The event was being held in a beautiful, renovated 19th century theatre, definitely what you would think of as “fancy”, if you picture the word “fancy” in your mind, and a lot of the crowd appeared to be impressed by their surroundings, a little uncomfortable. Sean Hannity came out first, throw football around for a while for some reason. The crowd was old, and seated they seemed even more vulnerable, more defenseless. To my left, a couple rows down, I could see an elderly couple. The man was clutching some sort a T-shirt with a message on it, a message he would stand up to show Donald Trump later, very proudly. His wife doted and it seemed clear he was disabled somehow, likely cognitively. I don’t think he was the only one there with the same issue. That’s when any resentment or anger about these people really drained from me. There were a lot of ways it could’ve gone, I thought, but I really wasn’t expecting to feel that level of sympathy for these people. Then Trump came out. As the show began they applauded and hooted and hollered at every appropriate place, nothing out of the ordinary, I imagine it was a fairly normal crowd. At some point they broke into the first successful chant of the day – “LOCK HER UP”. It was strange, watching so many people chant to imprison a political opponent. Then a feeble chant about taking some money from Hillary or Obama or someone for some perceived malappropriation or as weregild for setting up untoward email servers or some bullshit, I can’t remember clearly. I don’t remember how many little chants got started and died. Then someone started “BUILD THE WALL”. It seemed loud to me (and I’ve seen Motorhead live), but I think that must’ve been intensity more than actual volume, and this time it just kept building. The next President smiled and said a word or two of encouragement, the chant got louder and louder, until finally he said “Who’s going to build it?” and the crowd roared back “MEXICO”. It was one of the most intense “Oh shit.” moments I’ve ever had. I’m almost certain I said “Oh shit.” I know I thought it, because that’s when I finally got it. That’s when I understood what Trump was all about. The faces had changed. There was a particular expression, as they chanted and laughed, it was a certain flavor of delight. They were transported, giddy. They were giddy, they were reveling in it. For the rest of the evening, the crowd remained visibly buzzed on this high. Leaving the venue, some of the formerly well-mannered crowd began shouting at the few protesters lined up outside. One young guy took off his shirt and began plowing into them, throwing sarcastic “excuse me’s” back over his shoulder. I thought about the look on the faces in that crowd a lot, since then. I tried to pinpoint what it was exactly, tried to find it other places, on other people, in other situations. Look at the video of the Catholic school kids at the March for Life rally in Washington. Forget about Smirky McDoucheface, ignore the Native American elder. Look at the kids in the background, laughing, gleeful. That’s the look. It’s transgression. That’s the power they’re feeling, the thrill the Trump crowds feel. Transgression. You’ve felt it, the first time you did something your parents told you not to do. You felt it trying weed for the first time, maybe, maybe having sex. But this is more. This is like being a hippy in 1967 and realizing sex was nothing to be ashamed of and then doing it in the road. Transgression is one thing, the thrill of open, public transgression is something different. The thrill of being yourself, finally, after repressing so many thoughts, feelings, attributes, and doing it in front of everyone, in front of the world. I’ve felt it more than once in my life, most people probably have, in some minor way, at least. Coming out as gay or gender queer is a great example, even just telling someone what you really think of them, I guess, sometimes. It’s an amazing, empowering feeling. It’s empowering when the transgression is in the service of something good and decent and positive, and it’s just as thrilling and empowering what it is in the service of something malign. Maybe more so. The Trump phenomena isn’t about capitalism or economic insecurity or financial inequality or the opioid crisis. Of course it’s racism, but it’s more than that. It’s deeper, more primal. It’s about transgressing social norms, and much more than that, transgressing their own moral sense, shaking it off like a straitjacket and proceeding unencumbered. Look at the joy, the delight, those kids are inhabiting for those moments. Those kids knew they could get away with diminishing the elder with his drum, he’s not wearing the proper collar for a priest, he’s hitting his weird drum, chanting some weird shit, and not even the right weird shit. They are reveling in the realization that there’s a human being, an adult, that they don’t have to respect. a person the adults around them, the chaperones, the priests, have given them tacit, preemptive permission to degrade, diminish, and best of all, an older person, a person other people view with particular respect. I saw that look at age 15, on the face of a friend making fun of a disabled man in McDonald’s (I wanted to laugh with him, I wanted a friend so badly, but I barely mustered a chuckle, and I’ve remembered it and my shame for it ever since.) I saw it a year ago or so, on the faces of the young men who marched on Charlottesville and left blood and bodies in their wake. I saw it a few months ago when a man slowed and stooped over a homeless person sitting on the sidewalk to make fun of them for the amusement of his two friends. I shouted after him, told him I saw it, to knock it the fuck off. He said he knew it was wrong, I knew he’d do it again. It’s the look people doing something wrong to someone and realizing there is no one there to stop them. The look of someone doing something nasty and not having to care at all. I saw it again, a couple days ago, on the faces of a group of kids surrounding a man much older than them as he performed a religious ceremony for them, mocking him, howling racist chants, and gleefully videotaping the entire thing for mom and dad to laugh at later. And I saw exactly the same look on the faces of hundreds of ecstatic adults, shouting with a future president about building a wall and forcing other people to pay for it. Now why do you think a bunch of rural and exurban midwesterners give a shit about Mexicans 1000 miles away? They don’t. You really think they’re worried about their fucking jobs being stolen? Give me a fucking break. Every time that crowd of well-fed Midwesterners in the most wealthy nation in the history of the world chanted about that wall, they were saying “Fuck you.” That’s why they do it. Fuck you to 50 years of cultural change, of being told their feelings are wrong, their instincts are wrong. That they may have to start making room in their way of life for some people and some ideas they’re not used to, of constantly fighting against the toxic conditioning they’ve been inculcated with. That wall isn’t about keeping Mexicans out, The wall is isn’t even about the wall. The wall is about chanting “build the wall”, so every fucking BLM, #METOO, LGBTQ activist their kid dates can hear it, feel it. Fuck you, SJW. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. All for that gut-level thrill of shocking convention, angering the uninitiated. Transgressing. I see so many well-intentioned people try to argue with them, reason with them, debate them, and it’s so sad and funny and useless. Debate? Reason? There is no reasoning with this, this isn’t about fucking capitalism, or theory, or wealth inequality. This isn’t about statistical research regarding the effect of immigrants on low skilled labor. It’s not even about hate, really, it’s about the joy of hating, of hate built up for decades, passed onto children, touched by a match and exploding out through years of social progress and justice and understanding. There is no reason, no debate, no argument that can match the thrill of realizing that you were right all along and millions of other people agree with you. You can’t argue with the buzz they’re getting from telling everyone they hate to fuck off. You can’t legislate hate like this out of existence, it’s ridiculous to try and the price is far, far too high. (And, by the way, I will personally fight you tooth and nail every inch of the way, every book burning, speech restricting one of you.) You can’t beat it out of them. Again, it won’t work, the psychic price for that is too dear, it’s just fucking wrong, and you look pretty awful talking about it, by the way. A couple years ago, we all had the pleasure of watching a large swath of the populist, ethnonationalist right demolish their coffeemakers because the company that produced them came out as anti-pedoophilia. Remember that? And now they just got through throwing away their razors because the company that produced them is anti-rape. Why do you think that is? Who does shit like that? Take a look at that video again. This time look at the elder beating his drum, looking into the eyes of the smirking dick in his MAGA cap. Watch that kid’s face. Yeah, he’s smirking, he’s being a douche, but once or twice, you can see it, it crosses his mind. He’s wrong. Somewhere in there he knows he’s wrong. He knows it. That’s why people blow up coffeemakers and throw away perfectly good razors. They know it,, too. They know things weren’t always like this. They know they didn’t always vote for pedophiles and sexual assailants. They didn’t put babies in cages, or talk about bombing caravans of fleeing refugees. They didn’t hate like this. So don’t tell me about beating up on people, putting 16-year-olds in jail, and and don’t bother trying to debate them, reason with them. Watch that video again. Watch that kid flinch, watch what that elder does. There’s only one answer to hate this virulent, untethered. Shame. That’s what that elder did. He shamed that kid, and it almost worked. That song almost got through, he almost hit that nugget of humanity, just for a second. That's what you do when you're confronted with hate like that. You don't punch people and you don’t call the cops, you walk up to the asshole, stand in front of him, stare him right in the eye, and without laying a finger on him, you sing your song. Just sing your song. That’s how you deal with hate. Keep looking them right in the eye and keep singing, motherfuckers."
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jan 22, 2019 0:02:43 GMT
"...Now why do you think a bunch of rural and exurban midwesterners give a shit about Mexicans 1000 miles away? They don’t. You really think they’re worried about their fucking jobs being stolen? Give me a fucking break. Every time that crowd of well-fed Midwesterners in the most wealthy nation in the history of the world chanted about that wall, they were saying “Fuck you.”That’s why they do it. Fuck you to 50 years of cultural change, of being told their feelings are wrong, their instincts are wrong. That they may have to start making room in their way of life for some people and some ideas they’re not used to, of constantly fighting against the toxic conditioning they’ve been inculcated with. That wall isn’t about keeping Mexicans out, The wall is isn’t even about the wall. The wall is about chanting “build the wall”, so every fucking BLM, #METOO, LGBTQ activist their kid dates can hear it, feel it. Fuck you, SJW. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. All for that gut-level thrill of shocking convention, angering the uninitiated. Transgressing.yes. spot-on.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 22, 2019 0:41:11 GMT
TheOtherMeg and revirdsuba99 , keeping in mind that I’m not being an apologist, just a pedant... Since this is the world I grew up in, the first thing I did when I read this story was google these schools to see who runs them. Answer: The boys’ school is run by the diocese and the girls’ school by the Sisters of Notre Dame. (So, independent, but they still have to toe the line with the diocese doctrinally.) But I haven’t read enough to know whether it was a school-initiated trip or if the diocese decided to send the group. I am not at all dismissing the dangerous culture that can thrive in some Catholic boys’ schools (BELIEVE me), but I think school “ownership” is a distinction to note when people are speculating about why the girls did not participate. [And I feel compelled to add that I went to a girls’ school run by an order of nuns, and, despite many regrets about my education, I attended during a time when my raging second-wave feminism was shared - and encouraged - by many of my teachers. I never once felt that we girls didn’t count. In fact, we mattered very much, which is the fundamental beauty of all-girl schools. Did the boys at their own school agree? Doubtful. But this wide disparity in respect of females is the ultimate irony when discussing the PROs/CONs of same-sex education, whether Catholic or not. Okay, ramble over.] It appears that both schools were there on school-sanctioned trips, with the blessing of the diocese: www.covdio.org/as-pilgrims-plan-to-march-on-the-streets-of-washington-faithful-at-home-encouraged-to-attend-a-holy-hour-for-life/www.ndapandas.org/news/2019/01/19/notre-dame-academy-students-march-for-life.aspxThe Covington Catholic site is offline, but a Google search gives a preview: Huh. My bad. I just assumed the discussion claim here, that only the boys came, was true. Lesson learned. (I stand by my soapbox same-sex education ramble, though. )
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jan 22, 2019 0:42:00 GMT
Also, marking my spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 0:49:52 GMT
I see the Covington "Crazies" (THEIR name) took down their compilation video that was linked upthread. I guess they're not so proud of the bullshit antics after all. They looked like a bunch of hopped up coke heads in a cult after drinking red bull and watching blood sport.
ETA: Someone must have mirrored it.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 22, 2019 0:52:21 GMT
😂 My mom attended an all girls Catholic school, and mentioned that many of her nuns were quite progressive! I can’t remember the order. This would’ve been in the mid-sixties.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Jan 22, 2019 1:09:01 GMT
I just started following George Godwyn on FB and he addressed it today: linkGeorge Godwyn 10 hrs · "I attended my first Trump event sometime in the summer of 2016 (I don’t remember exactly when and I’m too lazy to google.). The future president was going to be featured in a live “town hall” event on braniac Sean Hannity’s nightly Fox show and it was being filmed not far from where I live, so I decided to go see the phenomena for myself, try to understand it. The first thing I noticed, entering the venue, was the crowd. They were, at least as far as I saw, literally 100% white, the only exception being one visibly displeased on-duty African-American cop, but they were not really what I expected. I went expecting a much more rowdy, aggressive crowd, angrier. These people were abnormally subdued, it seemed to me, almost timid. A lot of them were obviously from outlying, rural areas and they seemed to feel themselves out of place. The event was being held in a beautiful, renovated 19th century theatre, definitely what you would think of as “fancy”, if you picture the word “fancy” in your mind, and a lot of the crowd appeared to be impressed by their surroundings, a little uncomfortable. Sean Hannity came out first, throw football around for a while for some reason. The crowd was old, and seated they seemed even more vulnerable, more defenseless. To my left, a couple rows down, I could see an elderly couple. The man was clutching some sort a T-shirt with a message on it, a message he would stand up to show Donald Trump later, very proudly. His wife doted and it seemed clear he was disabled somehow, likely cognitively. I don’t think he was the only one there with the same issue. That’s when any resentment or anger about these people really drained from me. There were a lot of ways it could’ve gone, I thought, but I really wasn’t expecting to feel that level of sympathy for these people. Then Trump came out. As the show began they applauded and hooted and hollered at every appropriate place, nothing out of the ordinary, I imagine it was a fairly normal crowd. At some point they broke into the first successful chant of the day – “LOCK HER UP”. It was strange, watching so many people chant to imprison a political opponent. Then a feeble chant about taking some money from Hillary or Obama or someone for some perceived malappropriation or as weregild for setting up untoward email servers or some bullshit, I can’t remember clearly. I don’t remember how many little chants got started and died. Then someone started “BUILD THE WALL”. It seemed loud to me (and I’ve seen Motorhead live), but I think that must’ve been intensity more than actual volume, and this time it just kept building. The next President smiled and said a word or two of encouragement, the chant got louder and louder, until finally he said “Who’s going to build it?” and the crowd roared back “MEXICO”. It was one of the most intense “Oh shit.” moments I’ve ever had. I’m almost certain I said “Oh shit.” I know I thought it, because that’s when I finally got it. That’s when I understood what Trump was all about. The faces had changed. There was a particular expression, as they chanted and laughed, it was a certain flavor of delight. They were transported, giddy. They were giddy, they were reveling in it. For the rest of the evening, the crowd remained visibly buzzed on this high. Leaving the venue, some of the formerly well-mannered crowd began shouting at the few protesters lined up outside. One young guy took off his shirt and began plowing into them, throwing sarcastic “excuse me’s” back over his shoulder. I thought about the look on the faces in that crowd a lot, since then. I tried to pinpoint what it was exactly, tried to find it other places, on other people, in other situations. Look at the video of the Catholic school kids at the March for Life rally in Washington. Forget about Smirky McDoucheface, ignore the Native American elder. Look at the kids in the background, laughing, gleeful. That’s the look. It’s transgression. That’s the power they’re feeling, the thrill the Trump crowds feel. Transgression. You’ve felt it, the first time you did something your parents told you not to do. You felt it trying weed for the first time, maybe, maybe having sex. But this is more. This is like being a hippy in 1967 and realizing sex was nothing to be ashamed of and then doing it in the road. Transgression is one thing, the thrill of open, public transgression is something different. The thrill of being yourself, finally, after repressing so many thoughts, feelings, attributes, and doing it in front of everyone, in front of the world. I’ve felt it more than once in my life, most people probably have, in some minor way, at least. Coming out as gay or gender queer is a great example, even just telling someone what you really think of them, I guess, sometimes. It’s an amazing, empowering feeling. It’s empowering when the transgression is in the service of something good and decent and positive, and it’s just as thrilling and empowering what it is in the service of something malign. Maybe more so. The Trump phenomena isn’t about capitalism or economic insecurity or financial inequality or the opioid crisis. Of course it’s racism, but it’s more than that. It’s deeper, more primal. It’s about transgressing social norms, and much more than that, transgressing their own moral sense, shaking it off like a straitjacket and proceeding unencumbered. Look at the joy, the delight, those kids are inhabiting for those moments. Those kids knew they could get away with diminishing the elder with his drum, he’s not wearing the proper collar for a priest, he’s hitting his weird drum, chanting some weird shit, and not even the right weird shit. They are reveling in the realization that there’s a human being, an adult, that they don’t have to respect. a person the adults around them, the chaperones, the priests, have given them tacit, preemptive permission to degrade, diminish, and best of all, an older person, a person other people view with particular respect. I saw that look at age 15, on the face of a friend making fun of a disabled man in McDonald’s (I wanted to laugh with him, I wanted a friend so badly, but I barely mustered a chuckle, and I’ve remembered it and my shame for it ever since.) I saw it a year ago or so, on the faces of the young men who marched on Charlottesville and left blood and bodies in their wake. I saw it a few months ago when a man slowed and stooped over a homeless person sitting on the sidewalk to make fun of them for the amusement of his two friends. I shouted after him, told him I saw it, to knock it the fuck off. He said he knew it was wrong, I knew he’d do it again. It’s the look people doing something wrong to someone and realizing there is no one there to stop them. The look of someone doing something nasty and not having to care at all. I saw it again, a couple days ago, on the faces of a group of kids surrounding a man much older than them as he performed a religious ceremony for them, mocking him, howling racist chants, and gleefully videotaping the entire thing for mom and dad to laugh at later. And I saw exactly the same look on the faces of hundreds of ecstatic adults, shouting with a future president about building a wall and forcing other people to pay for it. Now why do you think a bunch of rural and exurban midwesterners give a shit about Mexicans 1000 miles away? They don’t. You really think they’re worried about their fucking jobs being stolen? Give me a fucking break. Every time that crowd of well-fed Midwesterners in the most wealthy nation in the history of the world chanted about that wall, they were saying “Fuck you.” That’s why they do it. Fuck you to 50 years of cultural change, of being told their feelings are wrong, their instincts are wrong. That they may have to start making room in their way of life for some people and some ideas they’re not used to, of constantly fighting against the toxic conditioning they’ve been inculcated with. That wall isn’t about keeping Mexicans out, The wall is isn’t even about the wall. The wall is about chanting “build the wall”, so every fucking BLM, #METOO, LGBTQ activist their kid dates can hear it, feel it. Fuck you, SJW. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. BUILD THE WALL. All for that gut-level thrill of shocking convention, angering the uninitiated. Transgressing. I see so many well-intentioned people try to argue with them, reason with them, debate them, and it’s so sad and funny and useless. Debate? Reason? There is no reasoning with this, this isn’t about fucking capitalism, or theory, or wealth inequality. This isn’t about statistical research regarding the effect of immigrants on low skilled labor. It’s not even about hate, really, it’s about the joy of hating, of hate built up for decades, passed onto children, touched by a match and exploding out through years of social progress and justice and understanding. There is no reason, no debate, no argument that can match the thrill of realizing that you were right all along and millions of other people agree with you. You can’t argue with the buzz they’re getting from telling everyone they hate to fuck off. You can’t legislate hate like this out of existence, it’s ridiculous to try and the price is far, far too high. (And, by the way, I will personally fight you tooth and nail every inch of the way, every book burning, speech restricting one of you.) You can’t beat it out of them. Again, it won’t work, the psychic price for that is too dear, it’s just fucking wrong, and you look pretty awful talking about it, by the way. A couple years ago, we all had the pleasure of watching a large swath of the populist, ethnonationalist right demolish their coffeemakers because the company that produced them came out as anti-pedoophilia. Remember that? And now they just got through throwing away their razors because the company that produced them is anti-rape. Why do you think that is? Who does shit like that? Take a look at that video again. This time look at the elder beating his drum, looking into the eyes of the smirking dick in his MAGA cap. Watch that kid’s face. Yeah, he’s smirking, he’s being a douche, but once or twice, you can see it, it crosses his mind. He’s wrong. Somewhere in there he knows he’s wrong. He knows it. That’s why people blow up coffeemakers and throw away perfectly good razors. They know it,, too. They know things weren’t always like this. They know they didn’t always vote for pedophiles and sexual assailants. They didn’t put babies in cages, or talk about bombing caravans of fleeing refugees. They didn’t hate like this. So don’t tell me about beating up on people, putting 16-year-olds in jail, and and don’t bother trying to debate them, reason with them. Watch that video again. Watch that kid flinch, watch what that elder does. There’s only one answer to hate this virulent, untethered. Shame. That’s what that elder did. He shamed that kid, and it almost worked. That song almost got through, he almost hit that nugget of humanity, just for a second. That's what you do when you're confronted with hate like that. You don't punch people and you don’t call the cops, you walk up to the asshole, stand in front of him, stare him right in the eye, and without laying a finger on him, you sing your song. Just sing your song. That’s how you deal with hate. Keep looking them right in the eye and keep singing, motherfuckers." Amazingly correct and well stated. Moved me to tears. I’ve seen this in my own (80’s) father, and he absolutely knows better. It’s a combination of glee and shame and defiance.
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Deleted
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May 13, 2024 10:04:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 1:15:44 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 1:32:00 GMT
Alleged PR firm hired by the Sandmann family to paper over their son's poor judgement and smug privilege w/as little consequence as possible - as befits a white male hetero Christian.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 22, 2019 1:34:13 GMT
Alleged PR firm hired by the Sandmann family to paper over their son's poor judgement and smug privilege w/as little consequence as possible - as befits a white male hetero Christian. The PR firm’s tweets are protected. 😂🙄
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Post by mollycoddle on Jan 22, 2019 1:57:26 GMT
I think that those boys acted like jerks, but doxing is wrong, IMO. I don’t want them expelled either, but I think that assigning them service time with those less fortunate would be appropriate,
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 22, 2019 2:48:28 GMT
I think that those boys acted like jerks, but doxing is wrong, IMO. I don’t want them expelled either, but I think that assigning them service time with those less fortunate would be appropriate, They have a lot of work to do before anyone else should have to deal with them. We shouldn’t punish the less fortunate with their presence.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 22, 2019 2:48:51 GMT
They were wilding all over DC.
Nice kids.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 22, 2019 3:01:04 GMT
I see the Covington "Crazies" (THEIR name) took down their compilation video that was linked upthread. I guess they're not so proud of the bullshit antics after all. They looked like a bunch of hopped up coke heads in a cult after drinking red bull and watching blood sport. ETA: Someone must have mirrored it. Does anyone know if that type of behavior (the chants, etc) common in schools around there? Or is that unique to this school?
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,907
Jun 27, 2014 19:06:19 GMT
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 22, 2019 3:17:45 GMT
I don't know about current protocols on chanting at sports event... but I went to my nephew's (12-14 yo) baseball game (outside of school league) about 5 years ago and I chanted... swing, batter, swing, batter, swing and we need a pitcher not a belly itcher and I was told that those chants are not acceptable any more. No chants of any kind... I abruptly stopped.
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Post by sideways on Jan 22, 2019 3:44:49 GMT
I don’t know how to embed a tweet here, but the event between the kid and the Elder wasn’t the first run-in someone had with the Covington boys that day. You can hear them yell “MAGA” and “Build the wall”.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 3:51:23 GMT
This is not from the White House, this kind of thing was going on before Trump was ever in the White House. From people who wouldn't be caught dead wearing a MAGA hat. Remember the pizza shop that was forced to close due to threats because a reporter asked them if they'd hypothetically cater a gay wedding and they said probably not because they don't cater in general. Did not say it came from the WH................... As bolded: Some of the Behavior in the WH has filtered down to others.That's just semantics so I stand by what I said.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 22, 2019 3:53:00 GMT
"Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter." Haunting in my mind! I can still hear her saying it along with the look on her face as she said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2019 4:08:47 GMT
Quoting this just as an example... First, I believe thie behavior is despicable. I’m not excusing it at all. But I am confused as to why there are so many replies saying posters hope these kids’ futures are ruined but on other threads I read “just a kid” when someone mentions crimes committed by teens. I did a lot of illegal shit as a teen. Like, a lot. Not once did I ever get in an elderly war vet’s face and incite a riot to degrade his ancestry. That’s next level hatred bullshit, right there. That’s not typical teen crime. In 7th grade I did slap a girl’s face hard when she called my Vietnamese friend and her sister “rice pickers” and pulled her eyes tight with her fingers. Even though I went on to a colorful high school career of ingesting illegal substances, breaking and entering, stealing cars, and other escapades, I had my basic morals down. That kid is garbage, and his friends are garbage. I suppose I’m skeptical that he can one day become the kind of person to be absolutely horrified by his behavior. Breaking into someone's house and stealing cars shows that you have your basic morals down? I don't understand the logic there, maybe you can expand on that some?
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