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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 11, 2019 20:45:04 GMT
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Post by busy on Feb 11, 2019 20:46:51 GMT
What the hell, Virginia? Shameful.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 11, 2019 20:57:23 GMT
I have to wonder what they are teaching people about history in Virginia. Is that what they call slavery to make it sound better?
I have heard people here say that the civil war wasn’t about slavery, it was about states rights. I thought that was preposterous but recently saw an article about the curriculum in Texas undergoing changes because what they have been teaching about the civil war was not historically accurate. So that made me wonder if that person was wrongfully taught. I’m sure that could happen with other topics as well. And by no means am I saying that is ok.
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rodeomom
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Post by rodeomom on Feb 11, 2019 21:05:36 GMT
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Post by peano on Feb 11, 2019 21:15:20 GMT
What the HELL is Northam's problem?!!! This was from an interview after he initially came under fire? If so, this guy is just hopeless and needs to go. Actually, he just needs to go period.
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Post by Merge on Feb 11, 2019 21:19:52 GMT
Embarrassing.
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Post by mom on Feb 11, 2019 21:19:59 GMT
Jeez. He is a buffoon.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 11, 2019 21:26:19 GMT
I have to wonder what they are teaching people about history in Virginia. Is that what they call slavery to make it sound better? Virginia played such a small part in the succession of states from the Union leading us to Civil war in America. It's a lot to expect the governor of Virginia to have a good grasp of the history of Virginia.
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Post by alsomsknit on Feb 11, 2019 21:32:00 GMT
I have to wonder what they are teaching people about history in Virginia. Is that what they call slavery to make it sound better? I have heard people here say that the civil war wasn’t about slavery, it was about states rights. I thought that was preposterous but recently saw an article about the curriculum in Texas undergoing changes because what they have been teaching about the civil war was not historically accurate. So that made me wonder if that person was wrongfully taught. I’m sure that could happen with other topics as well. And by no means am I saying that is ok. Taking a class on this now. For Lincoln, the Civil War’s purpose was to keep the Union together. Ending slavery via the Emancipation Proclamation was a tool to cripple the South and its war effort. Hopefully, a strike strong enough to put an end to the war. Pre-election, Lincoln actually wanted to gradually end slavery by sending the slaves back to Africa, a place they had never lived. The Emancipation of the slaves actually created a great deal of malcontent in the North. The South was fighting for their way of life and slave ownership. They believed that states had the right to choose slavery, which was how it had been for a generation. (Missouri Compromise of 1820; Late 1850s (I think), territory settlers were to vote for free or slave state and leads to “Bloody Kansas,” because of illegal voting.) The US was a tempest of slave vs. free state. The government spent decades trying to appease both sides. Neither side trusted the other and the situation kept escalating with each new change: states added to the Union, solutions to keep the peace between Pro-slavery and Free state people. Lincoln would have allowed slavery to remain where it already existed. (He did in fact allow it to remain in the upper South which remained in the Union.) The South wasn’t happy with that. They wanted to expand slavery further south (Cuba, Mexico, S America). Plus, the South didn’t trust Lincoln to keep his word because he had already said he wanted the institution to gradually come to an end. It’s been a fascinating look at how the country ended up in Civil War. Even “progressive” whites, abolitionists, were steeped in white supremacy. (The class is Civil War and Reconstruction.)
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Post by alsomsknit on Feb 11, 2019 21:32:56 GMT
Thank you! I’ll be checking this out a little later.
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Post by alsomsknit on Feb 11, 2019 21:38:01 GMT
Northam is disgusting.
Who was the interviewer? I can’t remember. I was happy to hear her call him out for his revisionist rhetoric.
He needs to go. Unfortunately, I can’t see it happening.
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Post by lucyg on Feb 11, 2019 22:03:47 GMT
I saw some kind of a scholar on TV who said there was a reason Northam put it that way, that slavery didn’t emerge full-blown on U.S. soil from the start, that the original Africans brought here early in the 17th century were more like indentured servants, and that slavery as we know it developed over the course of the century.
I can’t vouch for that story because I haven’t researched it or read up on it on my own, but thought I’d throw that out there.
Me, I would have just used the word “slavery” no matter what nuances of history he may be more familiar with. But at least that’s a possible variation on his reasoning.
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Feb 11, 2019 22:57:14 GMT
I saw some kind of a scholar on TV who said there was a reason Northam put it that way, that slavery didn’t emerge full-blown on U.S. soil from the start, that the original Africans brought here early in the 17th century were more like indentured servants, and that slavery as we know it developed over the course of the century. I can’t vouch for that story because I haven’t researched it or read up on it on my own, but thought I’d throw that out there. Me, I would have just used the word “slavery” no matter what nuances of history he may be more familiar with. But at least that’s a possible variation on his reasoning. You might find this article about the beginnings of slavery interesting. USA. Today
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Feb 11, 2019 23:01:04 GMT
He also said during that interview that Virginia needs to heal and since he's a doctor who better to do it. He went on to say the state needed someone with a moral compass. I guess he suddenly developed one when he got caught.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Feb 11, 2019 23:20:22 GMT
He also said during that interview that Virginia needs to heal and since he's a doctor who better to do it. He went on to say the state needed someone with a moral compass. I guess he suddenly developed one when he got caught. He just keeps putting his foot in his mouth. Makes me wonder how he got this far because he sure is inept and stupid about handling things. He’s making it all worse by continuing to talk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 23:23:52 GMT
Why hasn't he resigned yet? Oh, right, we live in America, land of no consequences for bad behavior for old white dudes.
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Post by Blind Squirrel on Feb 12, 2019 2:02:29 GMT
I have to wonder what they are teaching people about history in Virginia. Is that what they call slavery to make it sound better? I have heard people here say that the civil war wasn’t about slavery, it was about states rights. I thought that was preposterous but recently saw an article about the curriculum in Texas undergoing changes because what they have been teaching about the civil war was not historically accurate. So that made me wonder if that person was wrongfully taught. I’m sure that could happen with other topics as well. And by no means am I saying that is ok. I taught 4th grade in VA (which is VA Studies) and we most certainly teach slavery, by name.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 12, 2019 2:15:33 GMT
You might find this article about the beginnings of slavery interesting. USA. TodayMost interesting......... Thanks.
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Post by flanz on Feb 12, 2019 2:21:04 GMT
What the HELL is Northam's problem?!!! This was from an interview after he initially came under fire? If so, this guy is just hopeless and needs to go. Actually, he just needs to go period. THIS!!!
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Post by Really Red on Feb 12, 2019 3:00:16 GMT
What the HELL is Northam's problem?!!! This was from an interview after he initially came under fire? If so, this guy is just hopeless and needs to go. Actually, he just needs to go period. This, exactly. I am just flabbergasted that anyone can be as stupid as he at this point.
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 12, 2019 3:11:39 GMT
The only thing I can come up with is that maybe he thinks the words can be used interchangeably.
This guy needs to shut the hell up for a while and hire some PR people and some historians and maybe some other types of people to help him avoid such mistakes in the future. (Because he refuses to step down).
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 12, 2019 3:13:05 GMT
He also said during that interview that Virginia needs to heal and since he's a doctor who better to do it. He went on to say the state needed someone with a moral compass. I guess he suddenly developed one when he got caught. 😧
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 12, 2019 3:27:53 GMT
Northam is disgusting. Who was the interviewer? I can’t remember. I was happy to hear her call him out for his revisionist rhetoric. He needs to go. Unfortunately, I can’t see it happening. It was Gayle King and she was probably thinking "what the hell did I just hear you say?" as she said "also known as slavery" in response. Poor Northam had heard of white privilege, just didn't know he had it.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 12, 2019 3:32:23 GMT
I saw some kind of a scholar on TV who said there was a reason Northam put it that way, that slavery didn’t emerge full-blown on U.S. soil from the start, that the original Africans brought here early in the 17th century were more like indentured servants, and that slavery as we know it developed over the course of the century. I can’t vouch for that story because I haven’t researched it or read up on it on my own, but thought I’d throw that out there. Me, I would have just used the word “slavery” no matter what nuances of history he may be more familiar with. But at least that’s a possible variation on his reasoning. Except they really weren't. An indentured servant agrees to work for a defined period of time without pay (and always in exchange for something like passage, etc.). They are never owned by anyone, they are indebted to them.
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Dani-Mani
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Post by Dani-Mani on Feb 12, 2019 3:33:35 GMT
As a proud graduate of a Virginia public school system...which tout some of the best schools in the nation...
My embarrassment is so so so real tonight.
And I promise you, slavery is taught in VA studies, which usually begins in elementary. And probably before that informally.
The politics in this state are becoming a shit show. It’s teuly embarrassing.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 12, 2019 3:46:50 GMT
I just remembered that during a recent training on white privilege, the presenter mentioned African Americans being indentured servants. I don't remember the details, but do remember questioning what she was saying. Anyway, I just googled and found this. www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 12, 2019 19:41:19 GMT
I saw some kind of a scholar on TV who said there was a reason Northam put it that way, that slavery didn’t emerge full-blown on U.S. soil from the start, that the original Africans brought here early in the 17th century were more like indentured servants, and that slavery as we know it developed over the course of the century. I can’t vouch for that story because I haven’t researched it or read up on it on my own, but thought I’d throw that out there. Me, I would have just used the word “slavery” no matter what nuances of history he may be more familiar with. But at least that’s a possible variation on his reasoning. I have read enough wills from the late 1600s - early 1700s to affirm that there were black persons who could be passed along in a will - although I have sometimes seen that they were also to be freed at some point, so there is the possibility that at least some were more "indentured" than "slave". The difference depending on whether the person was actually freed at some point or not on an agreed timetable. FWIW, there were a great many white indentured people at the same time whose indenture may have continued after a similar death, but it never read the same way. That's true for other states, too, and not just Virginia. But seriously now. This isn't a governor of another state. This is a governor of VIRGINIA and he needs a commanding sense of the history of the state or what use is he? I found a link from PBS for y'all that explains Indentured Servants in the US that clearly lays out how slavery replaced indenturing people of color. That's a history lesson. It's not a talking point to be carelessly dropped in an interview by a sitting governor who must deal with people who are descended from the slaves who were held and sold in his state.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 12, 2019 19:54:08 GMT
Except they really weren't. An indentured servant agrees to work for a defined period of time without pay (and always in exchange for something like passage, etc.). They are never owned by anyone, they are indebted to them. You said that very clearly and better than I did. A great many of us are descendants of indentured servants who were able to get a firm footing here in America through their service once it had ended. Slaves and the descendants of slaves had a much more difficult time finding a successful and sustainable start once they had been freed. This difference is a direct cause for racial tension and distrust today.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 12, 2019 20:08:13 GMT
I just remembered that during a recent training on white privilege, the presenter mentioned African Americans being indentured servants. I don't remember the details, but do remember questioning what she was saying. Anyway, I just googled and found this. www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3.html1705 and Virginia had already fully embraced the slavery of people of color without possibility for them to be indentured. More than 214 years of history Northam casually skipped over in his remarks.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 12, 2019 20:12:53 GMT
Also from iamkristinl16's link... This goes a long way to explaining what I had read in those old wills! Thank you!
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