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Post by stacmac on Feb 20, 2019 23:57:28 GMT
I like how the model is slamming them and saying how ashamed she is for being a part of this. ...but she put it on and walked in it. I mean did she not see the clothing as it was put on her body? Outrage after the fact seems hollow. I'm not sure that's very fair. Models don't get to choose what they wear and may not know what they're wearing until right before they walk. And this model doesn't appear to be high profile or highly experienced and she is probably pretty young - she's not some supermodel who has a lot of influence who might feel confident speaking up in the moment against the item. She would probably be scared about losing her job and tanking her career - fashion is a pretty small world. I give her a lot of credit for being brave enough to speak up at all, even after the fact. I agree, also fashion shows are hectic behind the scenes. You finish one walk and you're quickly put into something new and go out again. She might not even have had time to look at what was being put on her!
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,299
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Member is Online
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Post by smcast on Feb 21, 2019 1:32:02 GMT
No matter what it triggers first, suicide or racism, it is tacky, insensitive, and unnecessary all the way around. Who do they think would buy that?
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 21, 2019 3:43:01 GMT
Maybe it’s not this way at all shows, but from any documentaries I’ve seen I think models have to attend fittings before runway shows. I would imagine this to be the case for a big show like Burberry. I can see what you’re saying about fearing for future work. Of course, slamming them now may not help her either. The article said she attended a fitting and brought her concern up, but it was dismissed "it's just fashion." I still think it would be incredibly scary and risky as a young adult to refuse an assignment like that; the chances of damaging your career in an extremely competitive industry would be high. It's easy to judge from afar, but I bet in reality, not many of us would have the nerve to stand up in the same situation when we were young. Exactly. Even speaking up after the fact, is likely to cost her.
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Deleted
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Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 4:52:52 GMT
nautical- they said that knot was inspired by the marine theme of the collection and nautical knots... they couldn't have come up with a DIFFERENT knot than that one?!? that's horrible. The model who spoke up was a different one, and said it triggered her due to the suicide connection of a noose. Either way, VERY stupid idea. It is not a sailors knot. A fisherman’s knot is only looped around 3 times. It is a hangman’s knot.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 4:59:00 GMT
nautical- they said that knot was inspired by the marine theme of the collection and nautical knots... they couldn't have come up with a DIFFERENT knot than that one?!? that's horrible. The model who spoke up was a different one, and said it triggered her due to the suicide connection of a noose. Either way, VERY stupid idea. It is not a sailors knot. A fisherman’s knot is only looped around 3 times. It is a hangman’s knot. Please forgive if you think I am being handslappy. I truly don’t want to want you to think that. I was going to bring up that they were calling that a nautical knot.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Feb 21, 2019 5:12:17 GMT
not everyone sees everything through a US lens. So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. I have said so many similar things over the years and I immigrated to the US. When I see a noose my mind first goes back to the the hanging of prisoners and witches. The arts always invoke emotions or evoke. I will leave both words.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Feb 21, 2019 5:55:29 GMT
Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this. You CANNOT be a well-educated adult in Europe and be unaware of the US history surrounding racism anymore than you can be a well-educated adult in the US and be unaware of the Holocaust. We'll see if other British Peas chime in. So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. Well that doesn't make any sense at all. I'm freaking British. I was aware of lynchings and such prior to coming to the US. What I said was not remotely "getting personal." A noose has connotations of suicide too. I did state that in my first comment I believe. But it also has racist overtones. And again, the designer has lived in the US, so unless he lived in a freaking cave, he knew that.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Feb 21, 2019 6:05:03 GMT
Of COURSE it makes me think of suicide first! But there's more to it than that as well. And you don't have to be American to be aware of the racist overtones. I'm saying it's wrong on multiple levels. It's just wrong. Why are we arguing over WHY it's wrong? It ultimately doesn't matter. But if you want to tar and feather me, especially Gar, go right ahead. I don't understand it, but whatever.
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Post by gar on Feb 21, 2019 7:30:07 GMT
wellway - I was posting late last night and I did mean to say how sorry I am for your family's loss.
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Post by gar on Feb 21, 2019 7:42:25 GMT
I don't understand it, but whatever. You prompted a strong response from me and one or two others because you stated adamantly, unequivocally that it was done as a racist symbol. Several of us said that we disagreed, that it could just as well have been symbolic of other things because KKK/lynchings/racism isn't necessarily what first comes to mind to people outside the US. You seemed unable to accept that for whatever reason. That was all. Somewhat unnecessarily I will add that of course it was entirely wrong in every way.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Feb 21, 2019 7:51:40 GMT
The first thing I thought of when I saw the image is some of the imagery I’ve seen from the series The Handmaid’s Tale. It seemed to me they were trying to piggyback on the issues brought up in the series. I saw a young woman walking with the knowledge that she must be in submission or face the cruel fate of hanging. I’m not saying this was not insensitive, in bad taste, ect. It is. But my first impression had nothing to do with racism or suicide. Art, ( and whether you like it or not, this IS art), is open to many interpretations. wellway I am so sorry.
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,730
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Feb 21, 2019 9:57:38 GMT
So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. I agree with miominmio, when I saw the photo I immediately thought medieval England. The model is wearing that style of clothing. She looks like she is off to the gallows. I didn’t think that the intention was racist. I think it is an extremely tasteless thing to do, but then I think there are many tasteless things at fashion shows! I don’t normally comment on these threads but I felt the need to defend miominmio. I’m British. from another Brit. Call it tasteless, shocking, provoking and a hundred other unpleasant things, but it isn't racist to me: nooses have been used to hang every race, colour, creed. My first thought was of suicide, and the other nasty ideas came next. As someone else said, there is no cheerful, happy connotation for a noose. It isn't appropriate in any way for fashion items. ETA: wellway I'm so sorry.
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Deleted
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Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 10:45:13 GMT
But if you want to tar and feather me, You are a master of overreaction. Suicide was my first thought when I saw it but I have to agree that whatever your first thought was it's in extremely poor taste. wellway I'm so sorry about your families loss.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 11:35:09 GMT
So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. So, what is your non-triggering, non-killing, fashionable take on it? What is the acceptable reason for using a noose on apparel? What spiffy portrayal of the noose in fashion has nothing to do with racsim in the US? There is no 'acceptable' reason and I don't think anyone said there is. You're just tossing that in for the sake of getting a reaction. But to answer your question: the non-US-lens take on it would be suicide or the execution of prisoners.
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Deleted
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Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 12:38:08 GMT
Of COURSE it makes me think of suicide first! But there's more to it than that as well. And you don't have to be American to be aware of the racist overtones. I'm saying it's wrong on multiple levels. It's just wrong. Why are we arguing over WHY it's wrong? It ultimately doesn't matter. But if you want to tar and feather me, especially Gar, go right ahead. I don't understand it, but whatever. You seem to be missing the point though Zella. I don't agree with you when you say " You don't have to be American to be aware of the racist overtone". I would go out on a limb here and say that most if not all people here would think of suicide first and racism wouldn't even be thought of in this particular scenario. Why? because racial lynching hasn't and isn't part of our history . A noose for us will always bring to mind suicide, execution ( death penalty) in place since the Anglo Saxon era up until capital punishment in the UK was abolished in the early 60's Being aware of lynching in the UK, having covered the period of the civil rights in a history lesson at school is quite different to it being at the forefront of someones mind when they see a noose. I have no idea if or for how long Riccardo Tisci lived in the US. He worked for Givenchy until 2017,which is a French company.Working with certain US celebrities as he has done doesn't mean that he would categorically know the history of lynching in the US as you are suggesting either. He's the creative director of Burberry which doesn't necessarily say he was the designer of the outfit featured but he is ultimately responsible for what is featured on the runway. He has taken responsibility and issued an apology.What more do you need? I'm not defending them for one minute and it was a dreadfully insensitive move on their part,especially at London Fashion week where according to recent reports, youth suicide is on the rise in the UK and that hanging is very often the method used, not only by youths but adults too. It made it more inappropriate and distasteful to do so considering it was Children's Mental Health Awareness week in the UK a couple of weeks ago and the whole collection was targeted to " The Youth of Today ". Call it whatever else you like but it wasn't depicting racism as you are suggesting.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Feb 21, 2019 13:50:22 GMT
As someone else said, there is no cheerful, happy connotation for a noose. It isn't appropriate in any way for fashion items. I think that's it. It evokes negative emotions. There is nothing happy about a noose. But fashion is an art form. Art in all its forms isn't always happy. It can evoke anger, sadness, fear etc. There seems to be a trend in society to remove all things that causes us to feel negative emotions, to make us uncomfortable. Look at how heavy that outfit looks. Maybe the big jacket, hoodie, and then a noose like slip knot could represent the choking away of self expression some people feel? In some ways our society has more acceptance of self expression then ever before, but then in other ways people feel stifled.
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Post by miominmio on Feb 21, 2019 14:09:06 GMT
So what you’re saying is that a noose can ONLY have something to do with the history of racism in the US? Not anything else? Because to me, that is what you’re saying. And since you are starting to get personal here, I am not going to argue with you anymore. Not everything in this world has to do with the US, believe it or not. So, what is your non-triggering, non-killing, fashionable take on it? What is the acceptable reason for using a noose on apparel? What spiffy portrayal of the noose in fashion has nothing to do with racsim in the US? You are putting words in my mouth. Did you even read what I wrote? I said a noose has other connotations than lynchings and KKK. Suicide being one of them, capital punishment the other. Here, a noose would represent a suicide, not a lynching. You are just trying to be a bitch, and honestly I have zero patience for people who try to start a fight without even bothering to read what the other person said.
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Post by mustlovecats on Feb 21, 2019 14:13:35 GMT
Because it is a symbol of lynchings. Racism. The KKK. That's why. But Burberry is a British brand, so I think that is a stretch. To me it is tasteless because the British used hanging for executing condemned prisoners, not everyone sees everything through a US lens. The UK doesn’t have a racism free history either.
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Post by miominmio on Feb 21, 2019 14:16:38 GMT
But Burberry is a British brand, so I think that is a stretch. To me it is tasteless because the British used hanging for executing condemned prisoners, not everyone sees everything through a US lens. The UK doesn’t have a racism free history either. That’s entirely beside the point, since the discussion was about lynchings.
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Post by katiejane on Feb 21, 2019 14:41:28 GMT
Another Brit who did not link it remotely as being racist. I have lived in the USA and I am educated on the civil rights history of the USA. I my head it is tasteless as it links with suicide and capital punishment neither of which is okay for a fashion statement. wellway I am sorry. I too hope this story stays off their radar
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Deleted
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Apr 30, 2024 1:59:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 14:45:02 GMT
JFC!! 😠 Why would anyone, any corporation, think that could ever be okay?!?! Do you realize how many people had to "touch" that idea from conception to finished marketed product, and yet it still went through?! Hateful, hideous people. I feel like fashion houses are testing the waters to see with just how much racism will be tolerated in our society these days. There have been a lot of incidents like this in recent memory. You would think the backlash from the people would have made them hyper-sensitive to this sort of thing, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Katy Perry had to pull shoes from her line because some felt they depicted blackface and Prada had to pull some accessories because the made up creatures appeared to be racist imagery to someone walking by the store window display.
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 17, 2016 12:36:53 GMT
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Post by ashley on Feb 21, 2019 14:47:32 GMT
I’m curious why this is offensive yet fashion depicting guns is not.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 21, 2019 15:03:16 GMT
Well, I guess we'll have to disagree on this. You CANNOT be a well-educated adult in Europe and be unaware of the US history surrounding racism anymore than you can be a well-educated adult in the US and be unaware of the Holocaust. We'll see if other British Peas chime in. I consider myself well educated. I did not learn ANY American history until Year 11, and even then it was an elective, one not often chosen in Australian schools. But my history teacher was American and he felt capable of teaching it. We never touched it in university, either. Given that and living here and educating myself here, I understand the racial history significance of it - but I think most Australians would associate it with self harm (which is still highly inappropriate for different reasons) because our history curriculum is Australian-centric. I’d imagine the same in British schools. 🤷🏻♀️ We have quite enough Australian history (and British - being a commonwealth nation) to keep us fully occupied. I’d think this is the same in most countries.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Feb 21, 2019 15:34:09 GMT
Thank you for the kind words
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Post by miominmio on Feb 21, 2019 16:49:54 GMT
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