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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 13, 2019 21:36:06 GMT
Do we though? I’m sincerely asking, I don’t know. Like, what kinds of items could get my kid taken away if I have them at home and my kid happens to get into them? And I have done nothing else “wrong” as a parent? I’ve prosecuted child abuse and neglect cases for the last 7 years. I’ve removed kids when they’ve ingested their parents drugs, both legal and illicit. I’ve removed kids when they’ve been “accidentally” injured due to parents negligence in other ways. The 6 year old is dead and the 4 year old is injured by being responsible for his sisters death. I’ve removed kids when the environment has been dangerous and the parent has been negligent in removing the danger. Kids can also be removed if the house is very unclean (there is usually a high threshold here, looking at the child’s age and what the danger is in the home in regards to cleanliness or safety). I would say that an accessible, loaded gun should be considered a danger as well.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,649
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on Apr 13, 2019 21:41:07 GMT
At the very least her gun license needs to be revoked and all guns confiscated from the home. Also periodic home inspections to be sure she doesn’t have a gun.Her name needs to be entered into a national database so she can never purchase a gun again.
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 13, 2019 21:43:38 GMT
Do we though? I’m sincerely asking, I don’t know. Like, what kinds of items could get my kid taken away if I have them at home and my kid happens to get into them? And I have done nothing else “wrong” as a parent? I’ve prosecuted child abuse and neglect cases for the last 7 years. I’ve removed kids when they’ve ingested their parents drugs, both legal and illicit. I’ve removed kids when they’ve been “accidentally” injured due to parents negligence in other ways. The 6 year old is dead and the 4 year old is injured by being responsible for his sisters death. I’ve removed kids when the environment has been dangerous and the parent has been negligent in removing the danger. Thanks for answering!
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Post by mom2ja2 on Apr 14, 2019 1:46:23 GMT
I think the parents should be required to do public service type commercials. Like the ones people do to try to get you to stop smoking.
Parents who don't secure guns & then their kids do horrible things with those guns (intentional or not) should do a commercials about the signs they missed, their careless actions, and what life it like now. And how they wish they would have done things differently.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,765
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Apr 14, 2019 2:02:53 GMT
I have to wonder what her gun was meant to protect her from. I’m a Canadian who travels to the US a lot and I never fear that anyone is going to try and steal my purse from my car seat let alone kill me for it. Am I being naive?
Are home invasions an everyday occurrence? Why would thieves risk it knowing that so many Americans are gun owners? Are your TVs and computers worth a shoot out? I obviously don’t understand the need to arm oneself. Can anyone who is American please explain why you need a gun? Excluding hobby shooters.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Apr 14, 2019 4:39:24 GMT
Heartbreaking. I feel for the 4 year old. Sadly, I think there is a good possibility that he will blame himself when he is older and understands the gravity of his situation. I sure hope not though. This is precisely why the mother should be punished. A good therapist for the boy can use the fact that the MOTHER was charged with a crime and served time for it to drive home the point that SHE was solely responsible for the situation. And that's exactly the way it should be.
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Post by nepean on Apr 14, 2019 4:44:35 GMT
"A 6 year old girl was shot and killed by her 4 year old brother in Georgia. Mom left them alone in the car with the loaded weapon while she left the car to see why it wouldn’t start. No charges filed. When are we going to start holding people responsible when their actions cause deaths through their gross negligence?. I think parents or the “responsible” adult should be charged in these cases. There has been an unwillingness to change gun laws regardless of what happens. They say people kill people, not guns. So let’s start holding those people responsible. At the very least the mom should be charged with endangering children but I believe she should be charged with negligent homicide. I also think this kind of behavior should lead to the removal of the other children in the home."
This poor 4 year old! His mother was in my opinion negligent on several levels. The article says that she (mother) left the vehicle to see why it wouldn't start. So one can assume they were preparing to travel in the vehicle.
Why was the 4 year old not restrained in a carseat? (if they were about to leave) Why was he able to roam freely inside the vehicle and find the loaded gun? (ETA: the article said that the gun had been stored in the center console) Why was a gun (loaded or unloaded) in the car? Why was a loaded gun within reach of a CHILD? Why was the safety lock not engaged?
I just don't understand the need to carry a loaded gun. I live in GA, and have stayed in city areas, suburban areas, as well as country areas of the state. I have never felt unsafe, or felt the need to defend myself in any way. Of course I am cautious as needed, but it doesn't matter where you live, caution is needed.
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Post by miominmio on Apr 14, 2019 6:06:51 GMT
But it might make others think twice before leaving guns where children can reach them, if they realized that they could be charged with murder or whatever as well as lose their child. Making an example of someone in these cases isn't necessarily a bad thing. This was a 100% preventable death. I'd rather be charged with 100 murders than have my child die. It was 100% preventable, but being charged isnt going to keep the next person from being a So why not abolish the penal system altogether? Since prison won’t make a difference?
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Post by miominmio on Apr 14, 2019 6:16:38 GMT
When people claim that (in this instance) the mother has suffered enough, or that punishing her won’t bring her daughter back or that sentencing her serves no purpose, you are forgetting that one of the reasons for punishing people, is that the next one who thinks that loaded weapons around children is a good idea, will stop for a second and think why this might not be a smart thing to do. When her actions, or lack thereof, has no legal ramifications, you are sending a signal to society that it is acceptable that the innocent die so that others can keep their guns. The signal is that guns are more important than even children. But then we knew that already..... Is being remorseful (or at least pretending to be remorseful) of a crime reason enough to get off the hook legally speaking?
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Post by mrst on Apr 14, 2019 7:53:37 GMT
Until you like your children more than your right to bear arms , this will happen. The right to bear arms started centuries ago with primitive guns and very different living conditions.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 23:18:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 9:28:40 GMT
There is something seriously wrong with a society that will accept the collateral damage resulting in the death of children without any consequences for the perpetrators.
Not only has she taken the life of another but this mother has passed on a lifetime of guilt on to her other child by her actions. It doesn't matter how much counselling that child will have, he will still be faced with the guilt when he gets older knowing that he was the one that had his finger on that trigger, all because of his mother's negligence! What kind of justice is that for either him or his sister if his mother isn't charged with negligent homicide? Someone's lack of common sense and responsibility shouldn't get a pass because " they have suffered enough by the loss of their child" Would people feel the same way if it was a DUI and she had killed her child?
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,080
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Apr 14, 2019 12:38:56 GMT
The headline I saw called her death a “freak accident” which is ridiculous. Leaving a loaded gun where a child can access it is never a freak accident!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 23:18:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 14:02:56 GMT
The headline I saw called her death a “freak accident” which is ridiculous. Leaving a loaded gun where a child can access it is never a freak accident! I agree there was nothing freak or accidental about this incident. It was neither unusual ( similar incidents has happened on numerous occasions) nor was it unlikely to happen.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 14, 2019 15:13:02 GMT
I'd rather be charged with 100 murders than have my child die. It was 100% preventable, but being charged isnt going to keep the next person from being a So why not abolish the penal system altogether? Since prison won’t make a difference? I wasn't going to respond because it is a stupid question, but here goes. There are bad people out there who should be locked up either as a punishment or to keep the public safe. In this case, the police determined that they would not file charges. I assume they know better than I do as i have seen other cases in which the parent has been charged. I hope they have taken or she has given up any other guns. Charged or not, imo, would not stop the next one from happening. For me, in this case, I look at that child's needs rather than the need of the public for vengeance.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 14, 2019 15:32:23 GMT
I wasn't going to respond because it is a stupid question, but here goes. There are bad people out there who should be locked up either as a punishment or to keep the public safe. In this case, the police determined that they would not file charges. I assume they know better than I do as i have seen other cases in which the parent has been charged. I hope they have taken or she has given up any other guns. Charged or not, imo, would not stop the next one from happening. For me, in this case, I look at that child's needs rather than the need of the public for vengeance. The thing is, the people who do this stuff really *don’t* think it will happen to them. They just don’t, and no amount of publicity or punishment other people get for doing the exact same thing will make them get it. I personally know people like this, otherwise educated people who really should know better. Yet they just don’t get it that kids are curious and if they stumble on things like that unexpectedly, some kids WILL mess around with it and somebody could get seriously hurt or killed. And surprisingly enough, the one person’s young relative IS the kind of kid who would definitely play around with a gun if he found one hidden in the house somewhere. Without question, this particular kid would. It’s scary.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 14, 2019 15:50:21 GMT
Until you like your children more than your right to bear arms , this will happen. The right to bear arms started centuries ago with primitive guns and very different living conditions. Worth repeating!
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Post by sabrinae on Apr 14, 2019 16:35:47 GMT
I wasn't going to respond because it is a stupid question, but here goes. There are bad people out there who should be locked up either as a punishment or to keep the public safe. In this case, the police determined that they would not file charges. I assume they know better than I do as i have seen other cases in which the parent has been charged. I hope they have taken or she has given up any other guns. Charged or not, imo, would not stop the next one from happening. For me, in this case, I look at that child's needs rather than the need of the public for vengeance. The thing is, the people who do this stuff really *don’t* think it will happen to them. They just don’t, and no amount of publicity or punishment other people get for doing the exact same thing will make them get it. I personally know people like this, otherwise educated people who really should know better. Yet they just don’t get it that kids are curious and if they stumble on things like that unexpectedly, some kids WILL mess around with it and somebody could get seriously hurt or killed. And surprisingly enough, the one person’s young relative IS the kind of kid who would definitely play around with a gun if he found one hidden in the house somewhere. Without question, this particular kid would. It’s scary. Why shouldn’t this mother be punished. She caused the death of her child. In other scenarios where the parent causes the death of the child we punish them — those parents generally don’t think their actions will lead to the death of their child either. Should we not punish drunk drivers either or charge them with murder when they kill someone drubbing drunk— those people don’t get behind the wheel with the intention of killing someone. Why the get out of jail free card here?
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 14, 2019 16:47:19 GMT
The thing is, the people who do this stuff really *don’t* think it will happen to them. They just don’t, and no amount of publicity or punishment other people get for doing the exact same thing will make them get it. I personally know people like this, otherwise educated people who really should know better. Yet they just don’t get it that kids are curious and if they stumble on things like that unexpectedly, some kids WILL mess around with it and somebody could get seriously hurt or killed. And surprisingly enough, the one person’s young relative IS the kind of kid who would definitely play around with a gun if he found one hidden in the house somewhere. Without question, this particular kid would. It’s scary. Why shouldn’t this mother be punished. She caused the death of her child. In other scenarios where the parent causes the death of the child we punish them — those parents generally don’t think their actions will lead to the death of their child either. Should we not punish drunk drivers either or charge them with murder when they kill someone drubbing drunk— those people don’t get behind the wheel with the intention of killing someone. Why the get out of jail free card here? I’m not saying they shouldn’t be punished, I’m saying punishing one person won’t deter another if they don’t believe it will ever happen to them. It literally doesn’t even cross their mind that they will ever be in that situation. You have to have that fear that something bad *could happen* if you do a thing for it to act as a deterrent, and the people doing this stuff simply don’t have that fear. That’s all. I don’t believe in get out of jail free cards at all, even when it’s my own extended family and friends who are doing the stupid stuff.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Apr 14, 2019 16:50:01 GMT
They’re not being charged because their kids freaking died. That punishment is far worse than any jail sentence. They will already live their lives knowing they indirectly were responsible for their child’s death. They will never get over that. Ever. Throwing them in jail to “teach them a lesson” is pointless. They should still be charged. In my mind, they murdered their child. ZERO sympathy for that fucking stupid bitch of a so-called mother.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 23:18:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 16:51:12 GMT
But it might make others think twice before leaving guns where children can reach them, if they realized that they could be charged with murder or whatever as well as lose their child. Making an example of someone in these cases isn't necessarily a bad thing. This was a 100% preventable death. I'd rather be charged with 100 murders than have my child die. It was 100% preventable, but being charged isnt going to keep the next person from being a dumbass One would think that an adult would take the extra care to make sure their guns are out of the reach of little hands but history, sadly, has proven over and over that is an urban myth. Maybe if we start charging these “responsible” gun owners with murder, other “responsible” gun owners will finally take the steps to make sure little hands can’t get their hands on the guns. If nothing else, the threat of being charged with murder may force gun owners to do what they should have been doing all along and fewer children will turn into murders by taking out a sibling or another child.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 14, 2019 17:15:59 GMT
They’re not being charged because their kids freaking died. That punishment is far worse than any jail sentence. They will already live their lives knowing they indirectly were responsible for their child’s death. They will never get over that. Ever. Throwing them in jail to “teach them a lesson” is pointless. But it might make others think twice before leaving guns where children can reach them, if they realized that they could be charged with murder or whatever as well as lose their child. Making an example of someone in these cases isn't necessarily a bad thing. This was a 100% preventable death. I’m all for using prison as a deterrent for bad choices. But in this case I don’t think it would apply. If the fear of a child dying isn’t deterrent enough, the fear of prison sure won’t be.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Apr 14, 2019 17:17:50 GMT
We need to follow the law. If a parent or other person is deemed liable in a death the penalty set forth for that action needs to be upheld. If it had been a neighbor with the children in his car when this tragedy occurred he would be facing charges.
The child may be better removed from the mother. She obviously has a poor concept of child safety. He should be removed now while the home situation is evaluated so he isn't living where it's possible guilt will be put on him.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,801
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 14, 2019 17:35:10 GMT
My thoughts are always all over the place and I feel so torn whenever I hear stories like this or stories of children being left in hot cars. I do feel a bit more "sympathy" I guess for parents who accidentally leave their child in a car, especially if they are out of their normal routine, such as Dad taking the child in the morning when typically Mom does. But even in those cases...I'm torn.
In a situation like this particular one, though, I do think the mom needs to be charged with something. I don't understand how she cannot be. Her negligence directly caused the death of her child. I'm not saying she should spend the rest of her life in prison, but gosh, SOMETHING. At the very least, she and her husband should never be allowed to own a gun, ever again.
I also have to say, I do not understand why anyone feels the need to keep a loaded gun in their car, especially a car that you drive your children around in. This could have happened while she was pumping gas, or any number of situations. The metropolitan area where I live has had a rash of carjackings. But even then, I don't see how a loaded gun in your console is going to help. They seem to happen so fast, would you even have a chance to open the console and retrieve a gun?
I dunno. I am not a gun owner, so maybe I just don't get it.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 14, 2019 17:42:17 GMT
My thoughts are always all over the place and I feel so torn whenever I hear stories like this or stories of children being left in hot cars. I do feel a bit more "sympathy" I guess for parents who accidentally leave their child in a car, especially if they are out of their normal routine, such as Dad taking the child in the morning when typically Mom does. But even in those cases...I'm torn.
In a situation like this particular one, though, I do think the mom needs to be charged with something. I don't understand how she cannot be. Her negligence directly caused the death of her child. I'm not saying she should spend the rest of her life in prison, but gosh, SOMETHING. At the very least, she and her husband should never be allowed to own a gun, ever again.
I also have to say, I do not understand why anyone feels the need to keep a loaded gun in their car, especially a car that you drive your children around in. This could have happened while she was pumping gas, or any number of situations. The metropolitan area where I live has had a rash of carjackings. But even then, I don't see how a loaded gun in your console is going to help. They seem to happen so fast, would you even have a chance to open the console and retrieve a gun?
I dunno. I am not a gun owner, so maybe I just don't get it.
do any of thenews articles say it was the mom's gun? The ones I read just said a gun in the console. I dont carry a gun with me and the idea of conceal carry makes me nervous, but I know lots of people who do carry. As for the car hacking, I'd assume the person with the gun has a better chance than I would at getting out of that situation
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Apr 14, 2019 17:46:43 GMT
I have to wonder what her gun was meant to protect her from. I’m a Canadian who travels to the US a lot and I never fear that anyone is going to try and steal my purse from my car seat let alone kill me for it. Am I being naive? Are home invasions an everyday occurrence? Why would thieves risk it knowing that so many Americans are gun owners? Are your TVs and computers worth a shoot out? I obviously don’t understand the need to arm oneself. Can anyone who is American please explain why you need a gun? Excluding hobby shooters. I live in the city of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley area known for its gangs. I drive all over the place, leave my car unlocked while I get gas at Costco 1 1/2 miles away and I do not have a gun. As I type this my back door is open and my front door is unlocked. Packages are left on my front porch by delivery people. I'm sure many here would argue that I am naive, but it has been 18 years and nothing has happened. I'm sure that thieves and home invaders are more interested in the homes with Lexus, Mercedes and Range Rovers parked out front.
We (DH) had a bb gun but I made him get rid of it because it made dents in the garage door. I was afraid of a kid losing and eye. I'm OK with the AirSoft guns because I had him shoot me with it and it didn't hurt much. I want my kids to live and be unscathed by preventable accidents.
When you hear the president (not capitalized on purpose) go on about sanctuary cities and protests and so on take it with a grain of salt. The Maserati and the Mercedes dealerships a mile away from me have no fencse and park $100,000 cars in the lots. Americans are very, very fearful and I cannot understand why because I am convinced that rural area are no more dangerous than my urban area.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,801
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 14, 2019 17:48:00 GMT
My thoughts are always all over the place and I feel so torn whenever I hear stories like this or stories of children being left in hot cars. I do feel a bit more "sympathy" I guess for parents who accidentally leave their child in a car, especially if they are out of their normal routine, such as Dad taking the child in the morning when typically Mom does. But even in those cases...I'm torn.
In a situation like this particular one, though, I do think the mom needs to be charged with something. I don't understand how she cannot be. Her negligence directly caused the death of her child. I'm not saying she should spend the rest of her life in prison, but gosh, SOMETHING. At the very least, she and her husband should never be allowed to own a gun, ever again.
I also have to say, I do not understand why anyone feels the need to keep a loaded gun in their car, especially a car that you drive your children around in. This could have happened while she was pumping gas, or any number of situations. The metropolitan area where I live has had a rash of carjackings. But even then, I don't see how a loaded gun in your console is going to help. They seem to happen so fast, would you even have a chance to open the console and retrieve a gun?
I dunno. I am not a gun owner, so maybe I just don't get it.
do any of thenews articles say it was the mom's gun? The ones I read just said a gun in the console. I dont carry a gun with me and the idea of conceal carry makes me nervous, but I know lots of people who do carry. As for the car hacking, I'd assume the person with the gun has a better chance than I would at getting out of that situation I actually did wonder if she knew the gun was there, or if perhaps it was her husband's and she didn't know about it? If that is the case, I would feel completely differently about it. But then again, who puts a gun in a car and doesn't tell their spouse it is there? No matter what circumstances happened to put the gun in that car, what a sad, sad situation. I'm also a little confused as to why the 4 year old wasn't in a car seat. If the mom got out to see why the car wouldn't start, you would think everyone would have been already buckled up and ready to go.
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 14, 2019 17:49:38 GMT
do any of thenews articles say it was the mom's gun? The ones I read just said a gun in the console. I dont carry a gun with me and the idea of conceal carry makes me nervous, but I know lots of people who do carry. As for the car hacking, I'd assume the person with the gun has a better chance than I would at getting out of that situation I actually did wonder if she knew the gun was there, or if perhaps it was her husband's and she didn't know about it? If that is the case, I would feel completely differently about it. But then again, who puts a gun in a car and doesn't tell their spouse it is there? No matter what circumstances happened to put the gun in that car, what a sad, sad situation. I'm also a little confused as to why the 4 year old wasn't in a car seat. If the mom got out to see why the car wouldn't start, you would think everyone would have been already buckled up and ready to go. I thought the car seat thing too, but maybe he was a large 4 year old?
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2019 17:53:49 GMT
I think there needs to be a series of ongoing campaigns that works to change people's attitudes about having a gun in the home or carrying one on you, particularly guns that are accessible to anyone other than the licensed carrier. It won't change things overnight, but something has to be done to combat the relentless message from the gun lobby that no one is safe without a gun on them, and/or that guns are super cool toys that make you a bigger man or woman.
You know who would be perfectly positioned to spread the message that guns should be locked up at all times? And that just owning a gun makes you a lot more likely to die by a gun, so extreme care is needed? The NRA would seem to be the perfect organization for that. But of course that will never happen, because if you start with the message that guns are dangerous to have around, people might buy fewer of them.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,801
Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on Apr 14, 2019 17:57:32 GMT
I think there needs to be a series of ongoing campaigns that works to change people's attitudes about having a gun in the home or carrying one on you, particularly guns that are accessible to anyone other than the licensed carrier. It won't change things overnight, but something has to be done to combat the relentless message from the gun lobby that no one is safe without a gun on them, and/or that guns are super cool toys that make you a bigger man or woman. You know who would be perfectly positioned to spread the message that guns should be locked up at all times? And that just owning a gun makes you a lot more likely to die by a gun, so extreme care is needed? The NRA would seem to be the perfect organization for that. But of course that will never happen, because if you start with the message that guns are dangerous to have around, people might buy fewer of them. I agree. I like the idea someone posted earlier in the thread about that mom doing a public service commercial similar to the ones you see about smoking. Or a similar thing from a parent who left their baby in a hot car all day. I think that seeing commercials like this would do much more to prevent similar tragedies.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 14, 2019 21:06:15 GMT
I actually did wonder if she knew the gun was there, or if perhaps it was her husband's and she didn't know about it? If that is the case, I would feel completely differently about it. But then again, who puts a gun in a car and doesn't tell their spouse it is there? No matter what circumstances happened to put the gun in that car, what a sad, sad situation. I'm also a little confused as to why the 4 year old wasn't in a car seat. If the mom got out to see why the car wouldn't start, you would think everyone would have been already buckled up and ready to go. I thought the car seat thing too, but maybe he was a large 4 year old? He’d have to be a pretty big four year old. In MN kids need to be in at least a booster seat until they’re at least 80 pounds and 4’9” tall. My third grader is still not quite big enough to ditch the boosters!
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