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Post by librarylady on Apr 28, 2019 20:36:58 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2019 23:08:23 GMT
I mean, what are they going to do if trump Administration keeps refusing and the GOO does nothing? |
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trollie
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by trollie on Apr 29, 2019 0:38:56 GMT
Those officials ignoring subpoenas should be held in contempt and jailed. Simple.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 29, 2019 2:48:41 GMT
I mean, what are they going to do if trump Administration keeps refusing and the GOO does nothing? Court. Enforce the subpoenas through the court. Lengthy battles. This is what I would do...narrow the focus: (1) Forget McGahn and WH staff. What else can they possibly reveal that hasn’t already been detailed by Mueller in his report? They would have put themselves in legal jeopardy with Mueller if they lied so I’m assuming their testimonies were accurate. There's nothing more to be learned from them. (2) Barr doesn’t want to testify. Forget him. What will he do, anyway? He’s Trump’s guy at the DOJ. (3) Instead, focus on getting Mueller to testify because we know he’s not going to lie or dissemble or BS like Barr. Televise it so people can watch and see for themselves that Dems aren’t making all this up. Build the case for obstruction WITH him because realistically, I bet a heck of a lot of people did not bother reading his report. This will go far in educating the public. (4) The other committees can continue investigating Trump's conflicts of interests and possible financial misdeeds as documents from banks and financial institutions come in (Trump can't stop those; he just thinks he can). (5) Afterwards, figure out if they have enough for impeachment that will sell in the court of public opinion, poll the public and then go for it. We all know the Senate will acquit but if impeachment polling has improved, the House should just do it. It took the House one year to investigate Nixon until they could get the public on their side. (6) In the meantime, if the IRS commissioner refuses to hand over Trump’s tax returns to the House, impeach the commissioner. I know I may be oversimplifying since I’m not the one sitting in Congress, but to me, the only useful testimony would be Mueller’s. Because that's what Dems really need to build consensus with the public to support impeachment. |
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 15:28:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 13:58:18 GMT
I agree that Mueller is the one we need to hear from.
But at the same time Congress can’t let a sitting president thumb his noise at Congress.
You have trump out there saying oversight against his administration is nothing by a coup and it’s illegal. When in fact it’s not.
Congress can’t back down no matter how messy it gets.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 29, 2019 14:03:51 GMT
Can anyone who lived through the Nixon administration answer me a question? Was the support for Nixon as steadfast as the the Trump idiots?
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Post by Merge on Apr 29, 2019 14:06:33 GMT
You all - it brings me no joy to say this, but do we really have a leg to stand on here? Eric Holder famously refused to turn over all the Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Congress. He was held in contempt, but not brought up on charges. The documents were only recently, finally, turned over to Congress after a lengthy court battle - obviously well after the end of the Obama administration (and apparently contained precious little, as there was no big outcry about their contents from the right wing media that I'm aware of).
I think where there is a difference is that F&F was a massive fuck up of the DOJ, not necessarily a criminal endeavor, while failure to comply with subpoenas in this case may be covering up criminal activities by the POTUS.
I'm certainly happy to be shown where I'm wrong here.
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 29, 2019 14:47:00 GMT
Those officials ignoring subpoenas should be held in contempt and jailed. Simple. Yep. Just like other Americans who fail to show up to court. Why should politicians be treated differently? |
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 15:28:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 15:07:38 GMT
President Obama claimed Presidential Executive Privilege when it came to the documents
donnie dimwit didn’t claim Executive Privilege during the Mueller Investigation by “allowing” folks to talk to Mueller’s team.
Now he is saying no. A little late for that. Or as they say that ship has sailed.
As to the IRS giving his tax returns to the Committee asking for them, the law is clear that they have to fork them over. If trump tries to stop it, it’s another obstruction charge.
And this bit where cabinet heads can dictate to the Committees the “terms” of their appearance, well just think of private citizen Hillary Clinton sitting for 11 hours of questioning before a hostile committee. So either these cabinet heads need to man up or they really are hiding something.
And while I’m at it, trump stopping the guy who approves security clearances
from testifying in front of Congress is a little more serious then what went on with Fast & Furious as it involves National Security. Or the lack of by members of the trump administration.
📧
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 29, 2019 15:36:30 GMT
You all - it brings me no joy to say this, but do we really have a leg to stand on here? Eric Holder famously refused to turn over all the Fast and Furious documents subpoenaed by Congress. He was held in contempt, but not brought up on charges. The documents were only recently, finally, turned over to Congress after a lengthy court battle - obviously well after the end of the Obama administration (and apparently contained precious little, as there was no big outcry about their contents from the right wing media that I'm aware of). I think where there is a difference is that F&F was a massive fuck up of the DOJ, not necessarily a criminal endeavor, while failure to comply with subpoenas in this case may be covering up criminal activities by the POTUS. I'm certainly happy to be shown where I'm wrong here. We have the law on the side of Congress, but we don’t have the luxury of time because of how lengthy court battles will take. That’s why I think it’s better to narrow the focus so we can resolve this before election. Trump is doing this specifically to slow down the process. Also, using contempt of Congress is great, except the DOJ is the one that has to bring the charges, and I don’t see Barr doing this. |
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 15:28:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 19:03:19 GMT
linkFrom MSNBC... ”Asked about evidence of obstruction, Graham says, 'I don't care' The entire quote.. ”"I think it's just all theater. It doesn't matter. I don't care what he said to [former White House counsel] Don McGahn. It's what he did.... I don't care what they talked about. He didn't do anything.... I don't care what happened between him and Don McGahn." This is exactly why the Democrats need to follow this thread and all others regardless of how messy it gets when it comes to the corruption surrounding trump. There is no question there is a certain urgency for the Democrats to kick trump out of office. But at what cost? We have known for sometime the Republicans want to win at all costs so they can keep the power. And this is an example how far they are willing to go to keep that power. But if the Democrats disregard or soft peddle the information about trump and his activities just so they can win, no matter how righteous the reason, aren’t they starting to go down that same rabbit hole as the Republicans? And what happens if they pull back and then still lose? And by pulling back what is that going mean in the future and relationships between Congress and presidents?
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Post by librarylady on Apr 29, 2019 22:21:27 GMT
Can anyone who lived through the Nixon administration answer me a question? Was the support for Nixon as steadfast as the the Trump idiots? Yes and no.
Some die hards felt he was being abused, but many changed their mind as facts were revealed.
The internet didn't exist, and I think that is a factor.
Also, Nixon eventually just resigned and quit saying that things had not happened as the had.
I had a supervisor who still thinks Nixon was not deserving of resignation.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 29, 2019 22:38:36 GMT
Thanks you for responding librarylady. I just wanted to hear if the support for Nixon was as strong as the support for Trump seems to be. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 29, 2019 23:00:51 GMT
They can vote to defund the AG’s office if need be. I just heard Neal Katyal say this.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,856
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Post by lizacreates on Apr 29, 2019 23:50:27 GMT
They can vote to defund the AG’s office if need be. I just heard Neal Katyal say this. Does he say how to do it? The House creates its own appropriations bills and the Senate does its own. Both versions are reconciled and negotiated before all 13 appropriations bills pass the House and Senate. What’s the expectation that the GOP Senate would pass a a bill defunding AG? Even if all 13 manage to get through both chambers, Trump has to sign. Is there anywhere where Katyal provides details? |
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 30, 2019 0:22:37 GMT
They can vote to defund the AG’s office if need be. I just heard Neal Katyal say this. Does he say how to do it? The House creates its own appropriations bills and the Senate does its own. Both versions are reconciled and negotiated before all 13 appropriations bills pass the House and Senate. What’s the expectation that the GOP Senate would pass a a bill defunding AG? Even if all 13 manage to get through both chambers, Trump has to sign. Is there anywhere where Katyal provides details? He did not. It was on Ari Melber’s show, and there was a guest host. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 30, 2019 0:28:02 GMT
Thanks you for responding librarylady. I just wanted to hear if the support for Nixon was as strong as the support for Trump seems to be. It was so different then. No Fox, no Rush, and most people only had a few TV channels. You could only watch or read the news a couple of times a day. I do think that the constant stream of media keeps people angrier. |
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