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Post by anniefb on Apr 29, 2019 5:08:21 GMT
No. They committed crimes and are being punished for those crimes, that punishment includes not being allowed to be an active part of our society for that time. That ^^
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 29, 2019 5:41:30 GMT
I don’t have strong feelings either way. My initial respose was “Yes”, but was prepared to be swayed either way depending on the arguments people here presented! And then out of curiosity I looked up what happens here, because we have compulsory voting in Australia. It’s not something that I’ve ever thought about before.
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Post by Kymberlee on Apr 29, 2019 6:42:31 GMT
Hell to the no. Absolutely not. Here is something to think about when we discuss voting rights for people that are incarcerated. In many cities citizens vote for sheriff, prosecutors, and other people that can directly influence prisoners in the community. What about voting on amendments? Can you imagine giving that much power to a group that might be influenced to vote as a block?
I lived for a time in Leavenworth KS and the prison population probably outnumbered the full time residents, and it would be a scary thought if prisoners were able to influence the laws of the community in this way.
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Post by Amelia Bedelia on Apr 29, 2019 7:16:20 GMT
So someone who was sent to prison for buying or selling weed, which is now legal in several states should lose his right to vote temporarily and possibly permanently. However the bus driver who raped a 14yo girl gets to vote until the cows come home.
I think you should have to do something huge to lose basic human rights. I also think that until the laws and sentences are applied equally among different races and socioeconomic classes, we shouldn’t take away those rights willy nilly.
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Post by miominmio on Apr 29, 2019 9:17:36 GMT
Unless they have committed treason, then yes.
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purplebee
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,790
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Apr 29, 2019 10:54:16 GMT
Nope. Part of the punishment for breaking the law. When you're out and have served your time, then yes.
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Post by pierkiss on Apr 29, 2019 11:03:28 GMT
Ok, I’ll bite. How does letting people in jail vote constitute prison reform? What does one hope to accomplish by letting people in jail vote? I’m just not seeing it. I think it’s the assumption that prisoners will vote for democrats. Because the democrats are the ones (generally speaking) who are in favor of prison reform. So if more Dems get voted in, then prison reform is more likely to happen. I voted that I don’t care. Because this is not an issue I can get worked up over.
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quiltedbrain
Full Member
Posts: 429
Jun 26, 2014 3:34:53 GMT
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Post by quiltedbrain on Apr 29, 2019 11:44:53 GMT
I think it’s interesting how many are assuming that all the bad people are in jail. Lots of truly horrible people never get caught or pay their way out if the system, and they get to vote whenever they want.
What do you imagine the negative consequences of allowing prisoners to vote would be? (Truly an honest question, no snark intended.)
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Post by auntkelly on Apr 29, 2019 12:35:53 GMT
So what that you suggest? Only certain criminals should be allowed to vote? The fact is, Pence is right. Unless there are limitations put on who or who can’t vote while in prison, killers like the Boston bomber will be allowed to vote. I don't think it is right to dismiss an idea because of the worst case scenario which is one vote. And yes, you could make the limitations be that anyone sentenced to life without parole or a death sentence does not have the right to vote. Under that standard, Bernie Madoff would be allowed to vote.
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Post by mellowyellow on Apr 29, 2019 12:36:28 GMT
No. They committed crimes and are being punished for those crimes, that punishment includes not being allowed to be an active part of our society for that time.
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Post by Kymberlee on Apr 29, 2019 14:41:39 GMT
I think it’s interesting how many are assuming that all the bad people are in jail. Lots of truly horrible people never get caught or pay their way out if the system, and they get to vote whenever they want. What do you imagine the negative consequences of allowing prisoners to vote would be? (Truly an honest question, no snark intended.)***BOLD MINE*** I believe that the sheriff and prosecutors are elected positions in most counties. I think for this reason alone is the reason that people in jail shouldn't be allowed to vote. People in jail are assumed to be guilty of some crime. They had their day in court and were pronounced guilty. Are there people in jail that have been falsely accused and/or sent to prison for minor crimes? Yes, but that is the argument for prison reform and not voting rights.
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Post by workingclassdog on Apr 29, 2019 15:30:48 GMT
No. They committed crimes and are being punished for those crimes, that punishment includes not being allowed to be an active part of our society for that time. No.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Apr 29, 2019 17:36:17 GMT
Hell to the no. Absolutely not. Here is something to think about when we discuss voting rights for people that are incarcerated. In many cities citizens vote for sheriff, prosecutors, and other people that can directly influence prisoners in the community. What about voting on amendments? Can you imagine giving that much power to a group that might be influenced to vote as a block? I lived for a time in Leavenworth KS and the prison population probably outnumbered the full time residents, and it would be a scary thought if prisoners were able to influence the laws of the community in this way. Agreed all day long. Funny (to me anyway... lol) story. I was moving from one state to a state 15 hours away. I was single and looking for a fun community to live in. I had taken a job and needed to chose a town in the general area to live in. I also had a kid and schools, neighborhoods etc were important. So, super hot rental market and I saw a rental come up in a little town. Cute single family home on land with a garage (a gem- I didn't realize just what a gem it was til I actually moved up here.) Anyway.. I start checking out the area from afar, you know, google google. Anyway.. the demographics of the area showed that about 75% of the population was male and in my age group (late 30's), YAY for this single girl! I ended up moving up here and not moving into that house/town because the house was damaged and the landlord wasn't going to fix it in time. I later found out that the reason 75% of the population was male and in their 30's? Maximum security prison was located in the town lol
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 29, 2019 18:24:59 GMT
I think it’s interesting how many are assuming that all the bad people are in jail. Lots of truly horrible people never get caught or pay their way out if the system, and they get to vote whenever they want. What do you imagine the negative consequences of allowing prisoners to vote would be? (Truly an honest question, no snark intended.)***BOLD MINE*** I believe that the sheriff and prosecutors are elected positions in most counties. I think for this reason alone is the reason that people in jail shouldn't be allowed to vote. People in jail are assumed to be guilty of some crime. They had their day in court and were pronounced guilty. Are there people in jail that have been falsely accused and/or sent to prison for minor crimes? Yes, but that is the argument for prison reform and not voting rights. I'm confused at to why this is a problem? I'm not being snarky or sarcastic either. They are nonpartisan, elected positions in my county and I'm not sure the outcome of the last election would be any different if prisoners had voted. In fact, the incumbent candidates won by more than 50% in the primary so it didn't even go to the general election in November.
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Post by Amelia Bedelia on Apr 29, 2019 18:50:52 GMT
Another thing that bothers me about taking away people’s right to vote is how can they be reintegrated into society if they don’t even have the basic right of voting for representation for themselves? At a minimum their voting rights should be restored when they’re released, but I don’t see the issue with them being allowed absentee ballots for their home districts while they’re incarcerated. Then you won’t have a situation where the prisoners rule a small town. It just seems like a punitive and vindictive action that only serves to separate that population, which definitely skews toward a specific demographic. It’s just one more way to suppress votes, and we should, as a society, be encouraging more people to vote instead of less.
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Post by littlemama on Apr 29, 2019 18:57:04 GMT
In prison? No. In county jail for a short sentence (say 90 days)? Sure. Out of prison? Absolutely.
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Post by Merge on Apr 29, 2019 18:59:55 GMT
If we stop imprisoning people for nonviolent drug crimes, then I'll agree that those remaining should not be able to vote while in prison.
Some of you should pay more attention to the white collar criminals, rapists, etc. who avoid prosecution yet walk around voting their interests in every election. And ask yourselves - are we really keeping criminals from voting, or are we keeping a large chunk of poor, minority men from voting?
I'm not saying that I agree with Bernie, because I don't. But this is far from a simple issue as long as our "justice" system is so very skewed.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 20:04:25 GMT
It’s like trump, one has to separate the man from the positions he supports and look at each one separately.
ETA Prison reform and voting should be looked as two separate issues.
When one is convicted of a crime and is sent to prison it is a punishment for the crime they committed and as such they lose certain rights.
Voting is a right, no question, but why should voting be one of the few rights that a person is allowed to keep when they are sent to prison as punishment for a crime they were found to commit by a jury?
So far the reasons I heard for allowing them to keep this right is there are a lot of people of color in jail along with some innocent folks.
The other side of the coin is prison reform which, if it’s really reform, should address the issues of a large number of people of color compared to the number of white guys and the innocents sitting in jail among other things.
Now back to voting, it is a right but it is also a privilege. And as such, as long as one is sitting in jail because of punishment for a crime, voting is a right/privilege that should be suspended until one is out of jail. I mean when your kid is in a time out, do you give them treats and toys? It kind of defeats the purpose of the time out I would think.
And if prison reform is done correctly, then there should be fewer folks cooling their heels in the big house which means those left are being punished fairly for a crime they committed.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Apr 29, 2019 20:53:21 GMT
Voting is a right, no question, but why should voting be one of the few rights that a person is allowed to keep when they are sent to prison as punishment for a crime they were found to commit by a jury? I am wondering why it's one of the few rights we take away. Why is it taken away? Again, I'm trying to see both sides and I'm not understanding what the consequences would be.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:42:51 GMT
Voting is a right, no question, but why should voting be one of the few rights that a person is allowed to keep when they are sent to prison as punishment for a crime they were found to commit by a jury? I am wondering why it's one of the few rights we take away. Why is it taken away? Again, I'm trying to see both sides and I'm not understanding what the consequences would be. Let them ask you why they should keep it? Sending one to jail is punishment for their actions. The whole point when one is put behind bars is for them to see the error of their ways and not come back. Because it’s a punishment they are only given the bare necessities. Again so they won’t come back. As much as voting is a right, I also believe it is a privilege and if one breaks the law, they should lose that right/privilege along with the others they lose while they ponder their future sitting in the slammer. And I’m not going to debate the need for prison reform. To me that is a separate issue and should be treated as one.
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 29, 2019 21:57:09 GMT
It’s like trump, one has to separate the man from the positions he supports and look at each one separately. ETA Prison reform and voting should be looked as two separate issues. When one is convicted of a crime and is sent to prison it is a punishment for the crime they committed and as such they lose certain rights. Voting is a right, no question, but why should voting be one of the few rights that a person is allowed to keep when they are sent to prison as punishment for a crime they were found to commit by a jury?So far the reasons I heard for allowing them to keep this right is there are a lot of people of color in jail along with some innocent folks. The other side of the coin is prison reform which, if it’s really reform, should address the issues of a large number of people of color compared to the number of white guys and the innocents sitting in jail among other things. Now back to voting, it is a right but it is also a privilege. And as such, as long as one is sitting in jail because of punishment for a crime, voting is a right/privilege that should be suspended until one is out of jail. I mean when your kid is in a time out, do you give them treats and toys? It kind of defeats the purpose of the time out I would think. And if prison reform is done correctly, then there should be fewer folks cooling their heels in the big house which means those left are being punished fairly for a crime they committed. To keep them engaged in the greater community of our society? To give them a voice? This is a good read on the subject: Why Prisoners Deserve the Right to Vote
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 29, 2019 22:14:08 GMT
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 23:30:44 GMT
From the first article.. ”Telling prisoners they cannot vote is premised on the idea that convicts undergo a sort of temporary “civic death”—a suspension of normal rights as citizens while they are behind bars.” Well yea when one breaks the law and has their day in court and lands in jail, they are there being punished for their actions. And while I don’t think their citizenship should be stripped or they lose their first amendment rights, I do think there should be a “civic suspension “ while they are in jail as part of the overall punishment for the crime they were found to have committed. And I doubt very much letting them vote will go a long way in making them interested in being productive members of society. After all almost 50% of registered voters who aren’t in jail chose to sit out the 2016 election. I think time and energy could better spent on programs that actually help these folks become reconnected to the community when they get out. I also think once they are out they get all their rights back, including voting. And I don’t think a state should pull the shit that Florida is doing right now. But while they are in jail, their “civic suspension “ should include not voting.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Apr 29, 2019 23:38:21 GMT
Ok, I’ll bite. How does letting people in jail vote constitute prison reform? What does one hope to accomplish by letting people in jail vote? I’m just not seeing it. So for example, California uses prisoners to fight forest fires. They pay the prisoners $2/day plus $1/hour that they are fighting active fires. They are trained the same way paid firefighters are trained, but when they get out of prison, there is little to no chance they will get a job as a firefighter because of their criminal record. If these prisoners could vote, I'd be willing to bet they'd put their vote behind a candidate that believes they should be paid at the very least the minimum wage for risking their lives for their state and their citizens, so that they will have money saved when they have completed their sentences. And maybe that candidate would also consider fixing the system that denies them a job they are legitimately trained for and have practiced when they get out, you know, so there's less of a chance that they end up back in prison. This is just one of a ton of examples of how allowing prisoners to vote could actually benefit the whole of society.
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 30, 2019 0:27:23 GMT
From the first article.. ”Telling prisoners they cannot vote is premised on the idea that convicts undergo a sort of temporary “civic death”—a suspension of normal rights as citizens while they are behind bars.” Well yea when one breaks the law and has their day in court and lands in jail, they are there being punished for their actions. And while I don’t think their citizenship should be stripped or they lose their first amendment rights, I do think there should be a “civic suspension “ while they are in jail as part of the overall punishment for the crime they were found to have committed. And I doubt very much letting them vote will go a long way in making them interested in being productive members of society.After all almost 50% of registered voters who aren’t in jail chose to sit out the 2016 election.I think time and energy could better spent on programs that actually help these folks become reconnected to the community when they get out. I also think once they are out they get all their rights back, including voting. And I don’t think a state should pull the shit that Florida is doing right now. But while they are in jail, their “civic suspension “ should include not voting. You can doubt it all you want, but feeling connected to society has shown to be beneficial to inmates and their success in reintegrating. Having a voice through being able to vote is a reason to become/stay connected. Incentivizing the general population to vote is a whole other discussion. Low voter rates is not a reason to block inmates from voting or expect them to have a higher voting rate than the nonincarcerated population.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 0:56:54 GMT
From the first article.. ”Telling prisoners they cannot vote is premised on the idea that convicts undergo a sort of temporary “civic death”—a suspension of normal rights as citizens while they are behind bars.” Well yea when one breaks the law and has their day in court and lands in jail, they are there being punished for their actions. And while I don’t think their citizenship should be stripped or they lose their first amendment rights, I do think there should be a “civic suspension “ while they are in jail as part of the overall punishment for the crime they were found to have committed. And I doubt very much letting them vote will go a long way in making them interested in being productive members of society.After all almost 50% of registered voters who aren’t in jail chose to sit out the 2016 election.I think time and energy could better spent on programs that actually help these folks become reconnected to the community when they get out. I also think once they are out they get all their rights back, including voting. And I don’t think a state should pull the shit that Florida is doing right now. But while they are in jail, their “civic suspension “ should include not voting. You can doubt it all you want, but feeling connected to society has shown to be beneficial to inmates and their success in reintegrating. Having a voice through being able to vote is a reason to become/stay connected. Incentivizing the general population to vote is a whole other discussion. Low voter rates is not a reason to block inmates from voting or expect them to have a higher voting rate than the nonincarcerated population. We are just going to look at this differently. It happens. You aren’t changing my mind and I’m not changing yours so we move on.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Apr 30, 2019 3:55:05 GMT
I am wondering why it's one of the few rights we take away. Why is it taken away? Again, I'm trying to see both sides and I'm not understanding what the consequences would be. Let them ask you why they should keep it? Sending one to jail is punishment for their actions. The whole point when one is put behind bars is for them to see the error of their ways and not come back. Because it’s a punishment they are only given the bare necessities. Again so they won’t come back. As much as voting is a right, I also believe it is a privilege and if one breaks the law, they should lose that right/privilege along with the others they lose while they ponder their future sitting in the slammer. And I’m not going to debate the need for prison reform. To me that is a separate issue and should be treated as one. I guess that's where we differ because I don't see it as a privilege at all, but a right. Full stop.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Apr 30, 2019 3:56:54 GMT
priv·i·lege /priv(e)lij/
noun 1. a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 5:15:26 GMT
Let them ask you why they should keep it? Sending one to jail is punishment for their actions. The whole point when one is put behind bars is for them to see the error of their ways and not come back. Because it’s a punishment they are only given the bare necessities. Again so they won’t come back. As much as voting is a right, I also believe it is a privilege and if one breaks the law, they should lose that right/privilege along with the others they lose while they ponder their future sitting in the slammer. And I’m not going to debate the need for prison reform. To me that is a separate issue and should be treated as one. I guess that's where we differ because I don't see it as a privilege at all, but a right. Full stop. You are right in that we see it different. And I do understand what the word “privilege” means. I still see it as a right and a privilege. Having said that I still have not heard any reasons why folks should be allowed to vote while they are in jail that make any sense to me. What I am seeing is pushing voting while in prison as part of some prison reform when I believe they are two separate things. And it’s clear there are some that disagree with that. So be it.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 30, 2019 5:21:10 GMT
Due to the racial disparities in incarceration rates, I feel that allowing those in prison to vote is one step on the path to criminal justice reform, so I voted yes. If I’m not mistaken, this is one of the reasons Bernie is bringing up the issue in his campaign. So...a rapist should have a voice in laws regarding women and women’s bodies? No. No they should not.
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